Parables

Ariel82 · Oct 19, 2016

God does teach us rightouesness and how to live godly lives. However we are saved because our foundation is in Christ and His redeeming work.

We have to make a distinction between salvation and sanctification.

Both are work of God...one by the blood....the other by walking with the Holy Spirit.

We can't judge others in their walk, but if they have Christ and His Holy Spirit, then we know God will lead and save them to the upmost,

eph610 · Oct 19, 2016

bikerchaz said:

Serious discussion here, please. When Jesus spoke in parables there are numerous story's and chunks of edification we can obtain through them. I would like us to look at Jesus parables that contain 'servants' or 'stewards'. OK I assume we all know that these servants or stewards are contracted to one master, God or Jesus or both but one. This being so, these servants are therefore knowledgable of their duties, and each has pledged themselves to their master.

I am writing this thread because of another thread "Sin shall not have dominion over us that are in Christ"

I made a comment at the end of this thread that has not been picked up on. I wrote ;

Within all the parables that Jesus told about servants, the same massage is made clear. An unfaithful servant will not inherit eternal life. Therefore as I have stressed before, it does matter what we do because we are in danger of loosing our salvation.

I am still waiting for an answer

It depends on if the term Kingdom of God or kingdom of Heaven is used...

The KOG & KOH are not the same things....Paul showed us this in the Epistles clearly...

Ariel82 · Oct 19, 2016

We could always talk about the difference between a servant and a child of the One True King....

eph610 · Oct 19, 2016

John146 said:

Yeah he will...you should try it sometime...but be careful the Holy Ghost does not talk with an 1611 English accent or use Olde English words, so you might think it's the devil or a Holy Ghost from a different translation/version of the Bible...

Grace777x70 · Oct 19, 2016

eph610 said:

I have heard this before...and I have also heard that they are the same thing...what do you believe the difference is?...personally I have no revelation in this subject at all....thanks!

John146 · Oct 19, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

The kingdom of heaven is the literally, physical kingdom on earth God has promised to the nation of Israel. The kingdom of God is the spiritual kingdom in which the believer resides. Both will be realized at the second coming of the Lord.

Grace777x70 · Oct 19, 2016

John146 said:

As I say - I have no revelation on this subject at all so I am just asking questions about it.

How do we know this? I see in the gospels where the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are used at the same time.

For example, speaking to the rich young ruler, Christ uses “kingdom of heaven” and “kingdom of God” interchangeably. “Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven’” (Matthew 19:23).

In the very next verse, Christ proclaims, “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (verse 24). Jesus makes no distinction between the two terms but seems to consider them synonymous.

John146 · Oct 19, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Right, Jesus taught aspects of both kingdoms but His teachings mainly revolved around the kingdom of heaven, thus this was only taught to the Jews. Before the physical could be given, the spiritually had to be dealt with. The truth behind what Christ came to do on the cross was hidden from them until after it happened. If the nation as a whole would have accepted the cross, their physical kingdom could have been ushered in and they could have been that city on a hill, a light to the gentile world. Instead, the Lord used the Apostle Paul to reach the Gentile world.

The gospel of the Kingdom is good news to the Jews concerning their kingdom where Christ will fulfill the Davidic covenant and rule from the throne of David.

John146 · Oct 19, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

For example, speaking to the rich young ruler, Christ uses “kingdom of heaven” and “kingdom of God” interchangeably. “Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven’” (Matthew 19:23).

In the very next verse, Christ proclaims, “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (verse 24). Jesus makes no distinction between the two terms but seems to consider them synonymous.

This principle can be applied to both aspects of the kingdom. If there's no difference, then why the two terms?

FreeNChrist · Oct 19, 2016

“The parables tell you not what you think you want to hear, but what you don’t want to hear. In the Parable of the Good Samaritan, nobody listening to Jesus wanted to hear that a Samaritan was their neighbor. So what the parables basically give us is stuff we can’t stand to hear. Take the Lost Sheep. What we want to hear is that the lost have to find themselves first and then come back to God. Wrong. All you’ve got to be is lost. Not fancily lost. Not ethically lost. Just plain lost. Likewise, all you’ve got to do to be raised from the dead is to be dead. Not uprightly dead or piously dead. Just dead.” Robert Farrar Capon

Grace777x70 · Oct 19, 2016

John146 said:

OK....thanks for your explanation of it. It seems to me that all of Jesus teachings were directed to the Jews but I never really have given it much thought.

I suppose some would call you a heretic because you believe this there is a difference between kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God?...lol..it's our unrenewed minds that automatically reject anything that we haven't heard before.

I'll have to do some study on it if the Lord leads me in that direction. What practical aspects do you see for this difference.

Grace777x70 · Oct 19, 2016

John146 said:

I don't know the answer....and it is a good and legitimate question.

John146 · Oct 19, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Matthew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

The disciples went around preaching the gospel of the kingdom of heaven, yet, they had no understanding of the death, burial and resurrection. The disciples were preparing the Jews for their promised literal kingdom. Signs, miracles, and wonders would accompany their preaching. Signs were always for the Jews.

The first place where the Kingdom of Heaven is mentioned is where John the Baptist was preaching about the the fulfillment of Isaiah 40. John was preaching about the Kingdom of Jesus Christ on this earth. Other Old Testament prophecies also reveal that the Kingdom of Heaven was physical. Read Genesis 49:10; Isaiah 2:1-5, 49:5-13; Psalms 2; Jeremiah 23:5 and Luke 1:30-33.

Matthew 3:2 "And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."

Jesus tells the Jews that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand in Matthew 4:17. This proves that it is physical because it shows a kingdom coming on earth and is not referring to someone dying. The book of Matthew mentions the Kingdom of Heaven several times speaking of an earthly rule of Israel that is talked about in Old Testament prophecies(Matthew 5:1-6, 13, Matthew 19:10-30).

Matthew 4:17 "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

The gospel that Jesus Christ preached for Israel to the Jews was the Kingdom of Heaven(Matthew 4:23, 5:4, 8:11-12, 19:28, 20:16, 25:31-34). The Jews knew that this gospel that Jesus was preaching was the physical reign on earth(John 1:41,45,49, 6:14-15, 12:13). The disciples of Jesus Christ knew that the Kingdom of Heaven was on earth like King David and Solomon's kingdom. Notice in the below verse, Jesus does not rebuke them and this proves that it is physical.

Acts 1:6 "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."

Magenta · Oct 19, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Luke 16 (NASB)

The Unrighteous Steward

1 Now He was also saying to the disciples, “There was a rich man who had a manager, and this manager was reported to him as squandering his possessions. 2 And he called him and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an accounting of your management, for you can no longer be manager.’

3 The manager said to himself, ‘What shall I do, since my master is taking the management away from me? I am not strong enough to dig; I am ashamed to beg. 4 I know what I shall do, so that when I am removed from the management people will welcome me into their homes.’

5 And he summoned each one of his master’s debtors, and he began saying to the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’ 6 And he said, ‘A hundred measures of oil.’ And he said to him, ‘Take your bill, and sit down quickly and write fifty.’ 7 Then he said to another, ‘And how much do you owe?’ And he said, ‘A hundred measures of wheat.’ He *said to him, ‘Take your bill, and write eighty.’

8 And his master praised the unrighteous manager because he had acted shrewdly; for the sons of this age are more shrewd in relation to their own kind than the sons of light.9 And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by means of the wealth of unrighteousness, so that when it fails, they will receive you into the eternal dwellings.

10 “He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous also in much.11 Therefore if you have not been faithful in the use of unrighteous wealth, who will entrust the true riches to you? 12 And if you have not been faithful in the use of that which is another’s, who will give you that which is your own? 13 No [j]servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”

14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, were listening to all these things and were scoffing at Him. 15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.

16 “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

18 “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20 And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.

22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’

27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

eph610 · Oct 19, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

The difference is the KOH is God's spiritual kingdom and abode...

The Kingdom of God is within our midst or within us now.
Jesus speaking in Luke 17.20-21 NASB
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; [SUP]21 [/SUP]nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is! For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Luke 17.20-21 KJV
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

This is almost never taught at all, some suggest the terms are interchangeable and mean the same thing. This is said because of the way Matthew and the other writers of the Gospels said things. For me, personally Luke 17.20-21 settles the debate, Jesus said it was in their midst or within him...

Jesus never manifested the kingdom of heaven on earth, he always manifested the kingdom of God, because it was in him.
This is a hard saying and teaching for those that grapple with cessation and other doctrines. I say that not to harm them, but if you cannot believe the Holy Ghost is more than conviction and teaching, then understanding the difference will never become revelation to people...not saying this is you Bruce....

In my study of the gospels and the life of Jesus I found he did 5 things in his ministry:
He preached
He taught
He healed
He delivered
He manifested the Kingdom Of God on earth

A great example of manifesting the Kingdom of God on earth is the feeding of the 5,000.

When Paul lists all the things that will not inherit the Kingdom of God, he is not preaching salvation, which is where many land in the ditch on works/conditional based/OSAS/Predestination salvation topics...

Paul was teaching us that anyone that commits any or all those vile things cannot inherit the Kingdom of God or better said the Kingdom of God cannot manifest in a person whose temple are dedicated to those things and not a temple that is owned by the Holy Ghost... Our body is not our but the temple of the Holy Ghost , and it is the Holy Ghost that manifests the kingdom of God through us...that is how the kingdom of heaven touches earth....through the kingdom of God....that is within...

Many will argue and refute this, but when Jesus says something he settles it and he said the kingdom of God is not here or there, but in you....

eph610 · Oct 19, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

I would also note that many do not interpret the parables very well, because they don't use the key to understand them that Jesus talked about in Mark 4.13. The parable of the sower is the key to understand all of his parables...

Mark 4.13
And He *said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How will you understand all the parables?

Grace777x70 · Oct 19, 2016

eph610 said:

I agree...and also I noticed in Mark's gospel that he said .."and the seed sprouts and grows - how, he himself does not know, the soil produces crop by itself"

It seems that the soil of our heart is where the growth comes from and how that is done exactly - looks like a mystery. There is a process that starts with the seed and then a blade forms, then the head , then the full grain.

There are a ton of nuggets that in beauty!....

Mark 4:26-28 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And He was saying, "The kingdom of God is like a man who casts seed upon the soil;

[SUP]27 [/SUP] and he goes to bed at night and gets up by day, and the seed sprouts and grows—how, he himself does not know.

[SUP]28 [/SUP] "The soil produces crops by itself; first the blade, then the head, then the mature grain in the head.

royalscot · Oct 19, 2016

49 But the one who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the stream broke against it, immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great."Luke 6:

first part.
what are the correct foundations to build on. before you become a servant or follower, would it be prudent to know.
the history time frame , who is jesus speaking to. at this given time. would it to be a factor, in in discerning.
discerning
dɪˈsəːnɪŋ/
adjective
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having or showing good judgement.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"the brasserie attracts discerning customers"[/COLOR]
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]discriminating, selective, judicious, tasteful, refined, cultivated, cultured, sophisticated,enlightened, sensitive, subtle, critical; More

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

royalscot · Oct 19, 2016

48 he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.Luke 6:

second part.
blowing in the wind.

for example.
if acts ,tell you about jesus going back to heaven, and pentecoste, and act 10. etc

these factor happen after the cross. nd would be the reason , he is called the saviour.

because of the bible, there is mixed places ,for the need to understand some more.or to study in greater depth. (to keep it short)

with out the latter history account , then ware did you get the foundations, to build.

FreeNChrist · Oct 19, 2016

eph610 said:

Capon would say the key to the parables is getting the Christ character right.

Parables

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