Loss of salvation versus questioning our faith

OneFaith · Oct 20, 2016

Yes you can lose your salvation, here's a biblical example...

In 1 Timothy 4 it talks about how some will abandon THE Faith (God's doctrine- scripture) (in order to abandon you had to belong first) and follow deceiving spirits- which is false doctrine/branch off religion. These people still have "faith", they didn't abandon belief in God, but they started following the doctrines of men. Will God accept them only because they believe? Let's see what He says about it...

"They worship Me IN VAIN, teaching as doctrine the commands of men."

Like I mentioned many times, faith (belief in God) does save, but, (and this is extremely important), faith ALONE without obedience to follow what God says does not save. "In VAIN" means to no effect- not resulting in salvation! If you believe in God, and leave His teaching to follow the Watch Tower, or catholic writings, your efforts are in vain, even though you believe in God.

Grace777x70 · Oct 20, 2016

Our faith can become ship-wrecked because of our un-renewed minds but the Holy Spirit never leaves us unless Jesus is a liar and John the apostle and Paul are also liars. I'm saying they are all not liars.

So, how does one depart from the faith? We can fall from grace as Paul talks about in Galatians by relying on our own self-efforts but we are still going to be with the Lord when we die because we are joined as one spirit with the Lord.

Making grace to be nullified just means that grace will not work in our lives ( it is idle - which is what the Greek word means ) because we are relying on our own efforts.

There are thousands of Christians going to church every time the door is open that are fallen from grace and it is not operating in their life.

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.

verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....

This not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others..is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.

This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort...

It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

OneFaith · Oct 20, 2016

Any doctrine that is not God's scripture- such as forbidding people to marry and commanding them to abstain from certain foods FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS is an abandonment of God'doctrine- which is scripture. God commands we don't even follow Moses anymore (Romans 7:1-4) because to follow both Moses and Christ at the same time would be committing spiritual adultery. To abandon God's teachings to follow man's teachings is to abandon God Himself.

Magenta · Oct 20, 2016

renewed_hope said:

I agree, you are disagreeing with something I did not say

If wishing and hoping had any effect I would wish and hope that every single person
could experience first hand the love of God. It really is there and offered for all to
have and to hold. It is true we all carry such great pains and sorrows in this fallen
world. My heart breaks for others and is broken all over again due to my own
ineptness. Still, God's love shines forth and is a promised reality for those who
step forward to lay hold of it through faith. Please do not think I am promoting
a name it and claim it mentality. No, nothing like that, though I have been falsely
accused a number of times by a few people here, some calling me a legalist while
others obstinately lump me in with hyper gracers as if I promote anything other than
what is plainly taught in Scripture

One person has even repeatedly accused me of
omitting the words of Jesus, Whom I quote on a fairly regular basis! I may see things
differently than others and express myself not as clearly as I would wish all the time
but it is ever the gospel message that I bear, along with my own personal experience.

“May the Lord direct your hearts into God's love and Christ's patience.”
*1 John 5 (NIV)
5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone
who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love
the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 In fact,
this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has
overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world?
Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come
by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because
the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify:8 the Spirit, the water
and the blood; and the three are in agreement.9 We accept human testimony,
but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has
given about his Son. 10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony.
Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not
believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11 And this is the testimony:
God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.12 Whoever has the Son
has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you
may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence we have in approaching
God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that
he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you
should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead
to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray
about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin,and there is sin that does not lead to death.

18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who
was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. 19 We
know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control
of the evil one. 20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us
understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is
true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

21 Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

We overcome the world by placing our faith in Him Who has overcome the world.
Jesus overcame sin and death on our behalf. Faith purifies our hearts.

Thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Utah · Oct 20, 2016

Gr8grace said:

Gotta go back to Romans 8. We can shipwreck our faith, but we cannot shipwreck our salvation. He bought us with a(His) price. And we are not our own after salvation.

Nothing created(Us) nor anything in the future can separate us from the Love of Jesus Christ.

Rom 8~~37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rewards,reign,rank and a host of eternal blessing's may be lost for those who do not endure. But salvation is SURE.

Amen brother. Thank you for clarifying!

Gr8grace · Oct 20, 2016

Utah said:

Your great Brother. Because I know I wasn't clarifying for you personally!

You are a great asset here Utah.

Utah · Oct 20, 2016

Gr8grace said:

Thank you brother. That's incredibly humbling. Keep fighting the Good Fight! You're glorifying God with every post you share, and we are all the better for it.

heavenly_bound · Oct 20, 2016

These two videos(especially the first one highlighted in red) will give some answers to this thread.

https://youtu.be/eCOa8eFu2vA

https://www.facebook.com/GospelOfChristMinistries/videos/1206445332740076/

pottersclay · Oct 20, 2016

here's the deal that's got me going, salvation in sure in Christ, no question his work is 100 percent and he is able to save amen. Now in the gospels we read about the unfaithful servant and how
Jesus dealt with him. There are a few stories simular. Now to be called a servant and given something imo you are saved but when found lacking the out come is not good. Also the Lord talks about cutting the vines that don't produce fruit they are fit for the fire.
Yet no one can pluck you out of the Lord's hands. Then scripture tells us that Jesus is faithful to complete the good work he started in you. Jesus said I will never forsake or leave you. Now in revelation Jesus talking to one of the churches told them to repent and do there first works over or he will remove their candle .
I'm sorry I cannot post exact scripture (working on it) but it has troubled my mind some. Not that I doubt my salvation but I do like to have answers when one ask can I lose my salvation. I think we all need to clarify this once and for all and if some are found wrong in there belief accept the truth for it is written.

I know I'm all over the place with this but I find it very important to resolve. So I ask the Lord to have his way with this thread. In Jesus name amen.

Gr8grace · Oct 20, 2016

pottersclay said:

here's the deal that's got me going, salvation in sure in Christ, no question his work is 100 percent and he is able to save amen. Now in the gospels we read about the unfaithful servant and how
Jesus dealt with him. There are a few stories simular. Now to be called a servant and given something imo you are saved but when found lacking the out come is not good. Also the Lord talks about cutting the vines that don't produce fruit they are fit for the fire.
Yet no one can pluck you out of the Lord's hands. Then scripture tells us that Jesus is faithful to complete the good work he started in you. Jesus said I will never forsake or leave you. Now in revelation Jesus talking to one of the churches told them to repent and do there first works over or he will remove their candle .
I'm sorry I cannot post exact scripture (working on it) but it has troubled my mind some. Not that I doubt my salvation but I do like to have answers when one ask can I lose my salvation. I think we all need to clarify this once and for all and if some are found wrong in there belief accept the truth for it is written.

I know I'm all over the place with this but I find it very important to resolve. So I ask the Lord to have his way with this thread. In Jesus name amen.

One at a time. Did you notice that even the vines that did produce fruit......................get pruned? Or vines cut off?

RickyZ · Oct 21, 2016

There is no amount or good works that will get you saved. Salvation comes solely from accepting Christ's sacrifice for you. Solely.

Likewise, there is no amount of bad works that will 'unsave' you. Loss of salvation comes solely from rejecting Christ's sacrifice for you. Solely.

There are those who accept Christ's sacrifice and thus walk among us. But if they subsequently recant and reject Christ's sacrifice, and it happens, they never make it to the other side to be with us. Thus they were among us here, but not among us there.

The long-winded, notated version of this is here:

http://christianchat.com/blogs/rickyz/8345-osas-final-answer.html
http://christianchat.com/blogs/rickyz/8346-osas-final-answer-2.html

Adstar · Oct 21, 2016

renewed_hope said:

Yes i believe a person can lose their salvation by casting their salvation away.. They cease to believe Jesus and no longer have Faith in the Atonement Jesus secured will secure for them salvation.. People who fall away from the Gospel truth are lost..

Asking questions about the will of God is not falling away.. A person who is asking questions is uncertain or has not made up their minds on things.. God encourages us to Ask Him for wisdom and understanding..

fredoheaven · Oct 21, 2016

No, none can lose his salvation! It is either he is saved or not yet saved or pretending to be saved. "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." Romans 11:29

God bless

nowyouseem033 · Oct 21, 2016

Salvation is of the Lord.

You cannot lose your salvation. To be sure you can backslide and at times it seems like you are falling away and distant from God, but all in all if you are Christian then you will always come back to God because the Spirit that dwells in you convicts you and ministers to you in such times.
To suggest that you can have salvation then suddenly trade it in for something else, shows that you never really had salvation in the first place. To see something greater and more appealing than Jesus goes to show that Jesus was not your Lord to begin with. If Christ is your Lord then you will always come to him at any costs and follow him despite whatever sins or attractive temptations come your way.

For example Peter denied Christ 3 times and Peter was no doubt very disheartened and depressed afterwards but wasn't it Christ who said "Peter, I have prayed for you that your faith will not fail..."Luke 22.32Peter to be sure was going through a tough time but in no way did he lose salvation in Christ because it is Christ who secures us and intercedes on our behalf during these tough times.

Again it comes down to if Christ is Your Lord and Savior then you WILL imperfectly follow him and obey him. If you call it quits then who was your Lord and Savior through those times because it certainly wasn't Christ. If it wasn't Christ then you were not saved.

Matthew 7:21-23
"...and I shall declare to them I never knew you.."

Not I once knew you or at one time I had a relationship with you while you were supposedly serving me but explicitly rather i NEVER HAD A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU AT ALL.

Matthew 18:12-14
paraphrasing the story of the 99 sheep and the lost 1.
There are at times where we will stray from Christ who is our shepherd but its funny how its Christ who comes and finds us rather than us coming to Christ. Im not saying you shouldnt come to Christ but its so easy for us who are prone to sin to stray from Christ... and notice that its the sheep. Christ came for the sheep not goats. If you are a Christian then you are a sheep and if you are a sheep then Christ will always keep you and secure you in his love though at times we certainly stray from him.

Philippians 1:6 "being confident in this, that he who began a good work in you is able to finish what he has started"

God doesn't give up and your free will to bail out on Christ shows that your desire was not for him in the first place.

nowyouseem033 · Oct 21, 2016

Adstar said:

So for what reason would a person cease to believe? Even unbelief in itself is a sin.
If people think theres a good enough reason to stop believing in Christ (which is sinful) no matter what the reason then it SHOWS that there was and is something else on the throne of there heart.

Magenta · Oct 21, 2016

nowyouseem033 said:

In fact, Jesus identified it as the only unforgivable sin.

PrynceNY · Oct 21, 2016

There is salvation for everyone through Jesus Christ. Many times the scriptures us do not be deceived. Which is why the scriptures says pray without ceasing & repent so you always have a close relationship with him. Yes you can lose your salvation but as long as you seek God daily it will strengthen your faith & keep you on the path of salvation God has provided for us.

GandalfTheWhite · Oct 21, 2016

OneFaith said:

As I understand it Moses did not teach but God guided His people through him.

We should also not teach but God should teach through us.

Every time Moses acted on his own accord he made a mess of things.

fredoheaven · Oct 21, 2016

PrynceNY said:

Hi,

Can one lose salvation for whom the Father and Christ and the Holy Spirit of promise, promise us in the scriptures that the Godhead will keep it or that it is sealed?

John 10:28 And I gave unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father which gave them, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

See also 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13; Ephesians 4:30

God bless

mikeys4grace · Oct 21, 2016

pottersclay said:

Hey, brother. You seem to be in one of those stretches where you're seeing contradictions in God's Word and they are hard to reconcile. I can relate!

Keep in mind, tho, God is not the author of confusion, our enemy is,
so anything that causes you to doubt your salvation,
your eternal destiny, your safe-keeping by our Savior, etc.,
is NOT coming from the One who loved you and
died for you to SECURE your salvation in Himself,
the One who purchased you with His own blood and
paid your way in full to redeem you back to God, once for all forever,
but rather from the enemy who likes to whisper in our ear, .....
..... 'Yea...hath God REALLY said?!' . Only now there's no easy ride,
It's a battle, and the Lord wants you to settle it.
Don't forget, that stinkin' enemy knows scripture, too,
(though not well enough to know he's been defeated. yet.)
Even had the audacity to try to use it against the Lord Himself!
Put on the full armor, and don't let some defeated enemy try to
steal the joy of salvation from you!
Take it to the Lord in prayer if you must, and tell Him the struggle,
and ask Him to be your shield and strong tower, and ask Him,
once and for all, Lord, am I saved? Is it a done deal?
Can I truly worship you in Spirit and truth,
because my salvation is secure in you?

And then let Him place you on Himself,
the solid Rock! God bless you, brother!

RickyZ said:

Sorry, friend, but I can't agree that anyone on this side knows for certain everyone that is on the other.
If they aren't there THEN, they never were, Here, either.

fredoheaven said:

Well said brother!

Loss of salvation versus questioning our faith

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