the lie that Jesus ministry was law
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since you gave me advice ill offer you this " Learn to not deny the Lords Word sis and it will go well with you"
leviticus 20:10 ""'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death."
john 8:3-11"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women.Now what do you say?” 6They were using this question as a trap,in order to have a basis for accusing him.But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”11“No one, sir,” she said.“Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
the scriptures are [pretty clear friend. the law of moses is judaism. the gospel is christianity. Jesus is pretty plain and clear when He says
deuteronomy 1921 ":Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot." ( the law through moses)
matthew 5:38-39 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. BUT I TELL YOU,( the gospel through Jesus Christ) do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, TURN TO THEM THE OTHER CHEEK also. "
you honestly dont see the difference? before you respond though consider all the scripture. the law came through MOSES. thats the first covenant with the isrealites. Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ, thats the new covenant. if a person learns and follows Jesus, the law is kept already. the gospel is the fulfillment of the law, the law is meant to be " love your neighbor as yourself" thats actually written in the law of moses. SIN is what brought death, and sin is what Jesus dealt with on the cross so that we can simply take His yoke upon us, learn from Him and follow where He leads.
we dont lie to someone we Love, we dont Kill them, harm them, steal from them, slander them, accuse them falsely the law was always Love one anther. christianity is based on Jesus Christ, His word, His way, the law of moses was given to the isrealites through moses, the gospel was a fulfillment of the promise to abraham that all nations would be blessed through Him, the law is nullified to the person who obeys the gospel, because obedience to the gospel, keeps the law without having to rule check the hundreds of mosaic laws, the 10 c0mmandments are validated by Jesus, the mosaic law is at least 400 individual laws regarding, sacrifice, forgiveness, purification, ordinances and festivals, the law cant be divided its eaither follow the mosaic law, or follow the gospel, the gospel is the easy yoke full of Grace and truth and based solely on Mercy received and gien.
i dont really get your comment after the op " you have heard long ago" ( i left the scripture from the law showing the law, and then quoted Jesus saying " but i tell you".....thats really pretty clear that changes happened, alot of folks issue is more with Jesus and His ministry than with the people quoting what He said
john 8:3-11"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women.Now what do you say?” 6They were using this question as a trap,in order to have a basis for accusing him.But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”11“No one, sir,” she said.“Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
the scriptures are [pretty clear friend. the law of moses is judaism. the gospel is christianity. Jesus is pretty plain and clear when He says
deuteronomy 1921 ":Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot." ( the law through moses)
matthew 5:38-39 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. BUT I TELL YOU,( the gospel through Jesus Christ) do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, TURN TO THEM THE OTHER CHEEK also. "
you honestly dont see the difference? before you respond though consider all the scripture. the law came through MOSES. thats the first covenant with the isrealites. Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ, thats the new covenant. if a person learns and follows Jesus, the law is kept already. the gospel is the fulfillment of the law, the law is meant to be " love your neighbor as yourself" thats actually written in the law of moses. SIN is what brought death, and sin is what Jesus dealt with on the cross so that we can simply take His yoke upon us, learn from Him and follow where He leads.
we dont lie to someone we Love, we dont Kill them, harm them, steal from them, slander them, accuse them falsely the law was always Love one anther. christianity is based on Jesus Christ, His word, His way, the law of moses was given to the isrealites through moses, the gospel was a fulfillment of the promise to abraham that all nations would be blessed through Him, the law is nullified to the person who obeys the gospel, because obedience to the gospel, keeps the law without having to rule check the hundreds of mosaic laws, the 10 c0mmandments are validated by Jesus, the mosaic law is at least 400 individual laws regarding, sacrifice, forgiveness, purification, ordinances and festivals, the law cant be divided its eaither follow the mosaic law, or follow the gospel, the gospel is the easy yoke full of Grace and truth and based solely on Mercy received and gien.
i dont really get your comment after the op " you have heard long ago" ( i left the scripture from the law showing the law, and then quoted Jesus saying " but i tell you".....thats really pretty clear that changes happened, alot of folks issue is more with Jesus and His ministry than with the people quoting what He said
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you,can a person that hasn't been born of the Spirit of GOD be obedient enough that GOD will accept them?
Are you saying,a person has to be obedient with their own will before GOD will save them or are you saying,a person has to be obedient to faith/believe the word of GOD?
Are you saying,a person has to be obedient with their own will before GOD will save them or are you saying,a person has to be obedient to faith/believe the word of GOD?
If we do as Jesus teaches, you are absolutly correct. When I first came to be convinced of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit, I realized aperson could get the Gospel from a Betty Crocker Cookbook, were it kGod's will, yes.
As for the law and the great point of the three given by our Mastser, that is mercy, we too have authority t some degree in forgiving sins in that we are commanded to show mercy to all. Nos this is not the final authority but it is the authority to live paitence and long-suffering with others forgiving their trespasses in generañ of tjeu asl amd abiding i faith the Lord will do the rest. Faith is all. I pray this makes sense to you...if not I will elaborate for you. You are quite the teacher it sems, please stay around in faith.
As for the law and the great point of the three given by our Mastser, that is mercy, we too have authority t some degree in forgiving sins in that we are commanded to show mercy to all. Nos this is not the final authority but it is the authority to live paitence and long-suffering with others forgiving their trespasses in generañ of tjeu asl amd abiding i faith the Lord will do the rest. Faith is all. I pray this makes sense to you...if not I will elaborate for you. You are quite the teacher it sems, please stay around in faith.
My comment is for the section I made purple:
So then AFTER the receipt of Grace and the Holy Spirit (i.e. being born from above), was can say man IS NOW FINALLY ABLE to love perfectly, right?
If we follow this reasoning, what does mean regarding our capability now? Either there's a heart change or there isn't.
So then AFTER the receipt of Grace and the Holy Spirit (i.e. being born from above), was can say man IS NOW FINALLY ABLE to love perfectly, right?
If we follow this reasoning, what does mean regarding our capability now? Either there's a heart change or there isn't.
"But when [in God’s plan] the proper time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the [Adamic penalty of the] Law, so that He might [buy back from Satan] and [free] those who were under [the same death penalty], that we [who believe] might be adopted as sons [to a new family tree, because *no one* goes to heaven except he who came down from heaven; only one, Christ (John 3:13; John 1:12-13)].
"Obedient to faith?" It seems we must have faith in order to obey, faith in the teaching of Jesus Christ from Genesis to the final ÇAmen of Revelation.
If we obey Jesus Christ it is a direct result of having faith in Him and proper conduct will follow. If any man believes Jesus Christ it is because he hears Him. No one who believes Jesus Christ will shy away from obeying Him for this is believing Him.
Believing He is the Only Begotten Son of God and Savior means taking action upon belief and not just sitting on the hands doing nothing. If one believes, works result from his love of Jesus Christ.; it is unavoidable.
If we obey Jesus Christ it is a direct result of having faith in Him and proper conduct will follow. If any man believes Jesus Christ it is because he hears Him. No one who believes Jesus Christ will shy away from obeying Him for this is believing Him.
Believing He is the Only Begotten Son of God and Savior means taking action upon belief and not just sitting on the hands doing nothing. If one believes, works result from his love of Jesus Christ.; it is unavoidable.
I'm talking about JESUS was the perfect sacrifice as a man and peace was made between man and GOD and those that believe In the word of GOD are members of the body of CHRIST and now we are the branches and HE Is the vine,HE produces the fruit and we bear the fruit.
Without the vine,who would you say Is producing the fruit?your efforts?
Without the vine,who would you say Is producing the fruit?your efforts?
Being "obedient to the faith" is believing in Christ and His work for us for life and living.
Notice here that even the law-keeping priests need to be "obedient to the faith". The keeping of the law of Moses is NOT the same as being "obedient to the faith".
Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
Pagans/Gentiles also need to be "obedient to the faith" and believe in Christ and what He has done for life and living.
Romans 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,
All people of all types are called to be "obedient to the faith" - which is belief in Christ alone for life and living.
Romans 16:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;
Notice here that even the law-keeping priests need to be "obedient to the faith". The keeping of the law of Moses is NOT the same as being "obedient to the faith".
Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
Pagans/Gentiles also need to be "obedient to the faith" and believe in Christ and what He has done for life and living.
Romans 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,
All people of all types are called to be "obedient to the faith" - which is belief in Christ alone for life and living.
Romans 16:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;
Are you saying because I believe Jesus Christ and I know I am saved I can just sit in my garden and do nothing? Are we not to avial our service to our Master? Is this doing nothing waiting for our rewrd? Of course any successful service in Chrits is glory to Him, but one must avail himself. As fro loving perfectly, I know I received His perfect love, and I love all people, even enemies whoever they may be, but my love is not perfect yet.
God will complete the work He began in me on His Great and Glorious Day, and this is the same for all in the flesh yet who believe. I know people who claim to love in this forum are mistaken for they,most have been quite hurtful to others without a need to be so.........do not ask for examples if you have not already seen the same. Doing so would show a lack of acuity.
God will complete the work He began in me on His Great and Glorious Day, and this is the same for all in the flesh yet who believe. I know people who claim to love in this forum are mistaken for they,most have been quite hurtful to others without a need to be so.........do not ask for examples if you have not already seen the same. Doing so would show a lack of acuity.
Are there people that think that Jesus did not preach the New Testament,for how could He not if He is the New Testament.
Jesus taught the obeying of the ten commandments,why,because they are not physical ordinances,but spiritual,moral commandments,laws of love,that must always be obeyed,but they did not have the Spirit to do it perfectly.
Paul said we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish it,and the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good,which are the moral laws,laws of love,and since they are spiritual,they must always be obeyed.
The Bible says love works no ill towards their neighbor;therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Jesus said a new commandment I give you,that you love one another,as I have loved you,which is a new commandment,because they could not do it perfectly in the Old Testament without the Spirit,but in the New Testament we can love people perfectly as Jesus did by the Holy Spirit.
And we always know that we have to love God.
So Jesus taught the ten commandments,because they are laws of love,love God,and love people,and any such law as that.
Since Jesus said a new commandment I give you,that you love one another,then whenever He taught along those lines,it is the New Testament.
He taught eternal life by Him,which is New Testament.
The Sermon on the Mount would be New Testament.
The miracles He did,which no man ever did,for He said the kingdom of God is upon you,is New Testament.
Told the rich man to sell all he had,and give to the poor,and he would be perfect,for it is loving people,that would be New Testament,and also as part of being able to receive eternal life,he had to obey the ten commandments,for that is Old and New Testament,but the adding of the sell all you have,and give to the poor,is New Testament.
I do not understand how some people can preach that Jesus did not preach the Gospel,when He is the Gospel,and taught for us to perfectly love people,which is the New Testament,for it could not be done in the Old,for if it could Jesus would of not had to come.
Jesus taught that not only can you not disobey the ten commandments,and any laws of love,but you cannot even think an evil thought,and you are guilty,which the Bible says,love does not think an evil thought.
Jesus pointed out a law of the Old Testament,and then took it further in the perfectness of love.
Anything that Jesus preaches about concerning the perfectness of love is New Testament.
Mat 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Mat 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Luk 10:11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Mar 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Among other scriptures of Jesus preaching a spiritual salvation,for anytime He preached a spiritual salvation,or love,it is New Testament.
In the Old Testament God allowed the Jews to fight physically in war,but in the New,God said wars do not come from Him,but the lusts of people.
It is love of people regardless of how they treat us,and since it is spiritual,it is not a physical dominion.
The Bible says do not have the grace of God in vain.
When Paul said we are not saved by works,but by Jesus Christ,he is addressing it according to a fleshy effort,of the Gentiles in their false religions trying to please God,or people thinking the Old Testament ordinances would find favor with God,and telling them to confess Christ,for that is how they find favor with God.
It can only be by faith when they initially come to Christ,for they have not received the Spirit yet.
The same as righteousness did not come by the law,Paul is talking according to a fleshy effort.
James then addresses the issue after a person receives the Spirit,and is saved,that they have to have works of the Spirit,or faith is not active in their life,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,which the Bible says quench not the Spirit,and do not grieve the Spirit.
If the Spirit has work for you to do,do it,or faith without works is dead.
Paul,we have faith,initially coming to Christ,not receiving the Spirit yet.
James,not faith alone,but justified by works,receiving the Spirit.
I point this out,because people misinterpret the scriptures,and then because of that they take away responsibility of the believer,and because they take away the responsibility of the believer,we witness in society the people that believe once saved always saved,being hypocritical,in worldliness,and material things,and money,and a form of fleshy pleasures,for they think,hey,I cannot fall.
But the Bible says let him that thinks he stands,take heed,lest you fall.
But I do not want to judge them all,for some might do right,but with the attitude of once saved always saved,and I cannot fall,that could provoke the flesh to have its way.
The thing is if we sin,we can be forgiven,and we have to have the attitude,I sinned,but I know it is wrong,and it hurts my relationship with God,so I give it up,not wanting it,and it will be forgiven,not the attitude that it does not effect our relationship with God.
But whether we believe once saved always saved,or that a person can fall from grace,we know we can be forgiven,and we might take advantage of God's mercy,and grace,and love,for we know He is forgiving when we sin,and that it can be wiped away from our record,with a better cleaner than Clorox bleach.
So while a person may say a person can fall from grace,and the people that say once saved always saved,it is a license to sin,the person that believes we can fall from grace,still might engage in sin knowing that God is merciful and will forgive.
We cannot take away the responsibility of the believer,for the righteousness of Christ can only be in our life,if we are led of the Spirit,which if we engage in sin that righteousness is not there,until we repent and give it up,not wanting it anymore,then the righteousness applies.
That is why the Bible says work out your own salvation,with fear and trembling,and lay aside every weight of sin,that so easily besets us.
Which that is the problem with sin,for we might sin knowing God is merciful,and forgiving,but if a person sins,it might cause them to go further with it,and get caught up in it,and they might not get rid of it,and they perish with sins on their record.
That is why the Bible says if they get caught up in sin,and entangled,the latter end of them if worse than the beginning,for it is according to the proverb,the dog has returned to its vomit,and the pig to its wallowing in the mire.
So sinning can be a gamble that we should not take,but if we sin,we should repent of it immediately,because we do not want to get entangled in it.
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
This is addressing the saints,and we should not take away the responsibility of the believer,and misinterpret Paul,but every person is responsible for their salvation,for we still have a choice after we are saved,for if we did not have a choice,no one would ever sin after they been saved,for it would be impossible to sin.
Jesus taught the obeying of the ten commandments,why,because they are not physical ordinances,but spiritual,moral commandments,laws of love,that must always be obeyed,but they did not have the Spirit to do it perfectly.
Paul said we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish it,and the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good,which are the moral laws,laws of love,and since they are spiritual,they must always be obeyed.
The Bible says love works no ill towards their neighbor;therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Jesus said a new commandment I give you,that you love one another,as I have loved you,which is a new commandment,because they could not do it perfectly in the Old Testament without the Spirit,but in the New Testament we can love people perfectly as Jesus did by the Holy Spirit.
And we always know that we have to love God.
So Jesus taught the ten commandments,because they are laws of love,love God,and love people,and any such law as that.
Since Jesus said a new commandment I give you,that you love one another,then whenever He taught along those lines,it is the New Testament.
He taught eternal life by Him,which is New Testament.
The Sermon on the Mount would be New Testament.
The miracles He did,which no man ever did,for He said the kingdom of God is upon you,is New Testament.
Told the rich man to sell all he had,and give to the poor,and he would be perfect,for it is loving people,that would be New Testament,and also as part of being able to receive eternal life,he had to obey the ten commandments,for that is Old and New Testament,but the adding of the sell all you have,and give to the poor,is New Testament.
I do not understand how some people can preach that Jesus did not preach the Gospel,when He is the Gospel,and taught for us to perfectly love people,which is the New Testament,for it could not be done in the Old,for if it could Jesus would of not had to come.
Jesus taught that not only can you not disobey the ten commandments,and any laws of love,but you cannot even think an evil thought,and you are guilty,which the Bible says,love does not think an evil thought.
Jesus pointed out a law of the Old Testament,and then took it further in the perfectness of love.
Anything that Jesus preaches about concerning the perfectness of love is New Testament.
Mat 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Mat 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Luk 10:11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Mar 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Among other scriptures of Jesus preaching a spiritual salvation,for anytime He preached a spiritual salvation,or love,it is New Testament.
In the Old Testament God allowed the Jews to fight physically in war,but in the New,God said wars do not come from Him,but the lusts of people.
It is love of people regardless of how they treat us,and since it is spiritual,it is not a physical dominion.
The Bible says do not have the grace of God in vain.
When Paul said we are not saved by works,but by Jesus Christ,he is addressing it according to a fleshy effort,of the Gentiles in their false religions trying to please God,or people thinking the Old Testament ordinances would find favor with God,and telling them to confess Christ,for that is how they find favor with God.
It can only be by faith when they initially come to Christ,for they have not received the Spirit yet.
The same as righteousness did not come by the law,Paul is talking according to a fleshy effort.
James then addresses the issue after a person receives the Spirit,and is saved,that they have to have works of the Spirit,or faith is not active in their life,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,which the Bible says quench not the Spirit,and do not grieve the Spirit.
If the Spirit has work for you to do,do it,or faith without works is dead.
Paul,we have faith,initially coming to Christ,not receiving the Spirit yet.
James,not faith alone,but justified by works,receiving the Spirit.
I point this out,because people misinterpret the scriptures,and then because of that they take away responsibility of the believer,and because they take away the responsibility of the believer,we witness in society the people that believe once saved always saved,being hypocritical,in worldliness,and material things,and money,and a form of fleshy pleasures,for they think,hey,I cannot fall.
But the Bible says let him that thinks he stands,take heed,lest you fall.
But I do not want to judge them all,for some might do right,but with the attitude of once saved always saved,and I cannot fall,that could provoke the flesh to have its way.
The thing is if we sin,we can be forgiven,and we have to have the attitude,I sinned,but I know it is wrong,and it hurts my relationship with God,so I give it up,not wanting it,and it will be forgiven,not the attitude that it does not effect our relationship with God.
But whether we believe once saved always saved,or that a person can fall from grace,we know we can be forgiven,and we might take advantage of God's mercy,and grace,and love,for we know He is forgiving when we sin,and that it can be wiped away from our record,with a better cleaner than Clorox bleach.
So while a person may say a person can fall from grace,and the people that say once saved always saved,it is a license to sin,the person that believes we can fall from grace,still might engage in sin knowing that God is merciful and will forgive.
We cannot take away the responsibility of the believer,for the righteousness of Christ can only be in our life,if we are led of the Spirit,which if we engage in sin that righteousness is not there,until we repent and give it up,not wanting it anymore,then the righteousness applies.
That is why the Bible says work out your own salvation,with fear and trembling,and lay aside every weight of sin,that so easily besets us.
Which that is the problem with sin,for we might sin knowing God is merciful,and forgiving,but if a person sins,it might cause them to go further with it,and get caught up in it,and they might not get rid of it,and they perish with sins on their record.
That is why the Bible says if they get caught up in sin,and entangled,the latter end of them if worse than the beginning,for it is according to the proverb,the dog has returned to its vomit,and the pig to its wallowing in the mire.
So sinning can be a gamble that we should not take,but if we sin,we should repent of it immediately,because we do not want to get entangled in it.
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
This is addressing the saints,and we should not take away the responsibility of the believer,and misinterpret Paul,but every person is responsible for their salvation,for we still have a choice after we are saved,for if we did not have a choice,no one would ever sin after they been saved,for it would be impossible to sin.
The Lord Jesus Christ magnified the Law in Matthew 5.
Isaiah 42:21 [FONT="]The [/FONT][FONT="]Lord[/FONT][FONT="] is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
(Read all of Isaiah 42... its really awesome!)
Why would He magnify the Law? Make the already difficult law even harder???
Galatians 3:24 [/FONT][FONT="]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
To bring us to Him. So we could know Him. So He could give us Rest and all His Blessings of Salvation and Righteousness.
Hebrews 9:14-15
[/FONT][FONT="]14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Whats the New Testament?
Hebrews 7:14-19
[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
[/FONT]
Isaiah 42:21 [FONT="]The [/FONT][FONT="]Lord[/FONT][FONT="] is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
(Read all of Isaiah 42... its really awesome!)
Why would He magnify the Law? Make the already difficult law even harder???
Galatians 3:24 [/FONT][FONT="]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
To bring us to Him. So we could know Him. So He could give us Rest and all His Blessings of Salvation and Righteousness.
Hebrews 9:14-15
[/FONT][FONT="]14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Whats the New Testament?
Hebrews 7:14-19
[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
[/FONT]
It occurs sto me that the people who believe Jesus Christ teaches the law lawfully applied under grace are those who read Hid teachings directly from the first four books of the New Testament. I believe we do this because we are invited to learn from Him, God, directly for his yoke is easy, His burden is light.
Those who argue grace only with no responsibilty of personal works (given by God) argue mainly out of the teachigns of Paul.
The firs group is more like Paul than the second because like Paul, they learn the only gospel of salvation given by Jesus Christ directly from Him.
Paul declares in his epistles there is only the one gosel, so why are people getting what Paul says so mixed up and unintelligible? Jesus teaches in plain words those pionts of living the life of one save by His Blood than does Paul.
It is always preferable to learn from the Master. Why do yo suppose He is called the Master..or..Raboni?
We all read and learn from Paul, but never anything that would contradict Jesus christ......
Those who argue grace only with no responsibilty of personal works (given by God) argue mainly out of the teachigns of Paul.
The firs group is more like Paul than the second because like Paul, they learn the only gospel of salvation given by Jesus Christ directly from Him.
Paul declares in his epistles there is only the one gosel, so why are people getting what Paul says so mixed up and unintelligible? Jesus teaches in plain words those pionts of living the life of one save by His Blood than does Paul.
It is always preferable to learn from the Master. Why do yo suppose He is called the Master..or..Raboni?
We all read and learn from Paul, but never anything that would contradict Jesus christ......
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A Gentile was never under the law of Moses. Those in Christ are never under the law of Moses. Jesus came and preached the true purpose of the law of Moses - and that was to reveal the sin in people and that no one could keep the law.
The law is like a diagnostic x-ray machine - it reveals what is wrong with someone. ( Like the law is holy and righteous and reveals sin in us )
The x-ray machine can not do one thing to bring life to the sick person that it reveals the sickness in. In the same way the law of Moses cannot bring life to us either. Gal.3:21.
Christ is the end of the law of Moses to everyone who believe in Him. Christ has fulfilled the law.
We are in Christ and He is in us as one spirit. Christ is our obedience and being in Him will produce obedience in us as a by-product of His life. Keep our eyes on Christ only and His life will produce a life of obedience and good works that have originated from Him inside of us.
Not knowing the purpose of the law creates a works-based Salvationist mindset that nullifies the grace of Christ in our lives from being manifested while we are in this world. Ga. 5:2-4
We either live by the law of Moses or by the law of Christ. There is no mixture of the two. When there is a mixture of the two we water down both the law of Moses and the work of Christ so that we do not benefit from the truth that is in both.
The law is like a diagnostic x-ray machine - it reveals what is wrong with someone. ( Like the law is holy and righteous and reveals sin in us )
The x-ray machine can not do one thing to bring life to the sick person that it reveals the sickness in. In the same way the law of Moses cannot bring life to us either. Gal.3:21.
Christ is the end of the law of Moses to everyone who believe in Him. Christ has fulfilled the law.
We are in Christ and He is in us as one spirit. Christ is our obedience and being in Him will produce obedience in us as a by-product of His life. Keep our eyes on Christ only and His life will produce a life of obedience and good works that have originated from Him inside of us.
Not knowing the purpose of the law creates a works-based Salvationist mindset that nullifies the grace of Christ in our lives from being manifested while we are in this world. Ga. 5:2-4
We either live by the law of Moses or by the law of Christ. There is no mixture of the two. When there is a mixture of the two we water down both the law of Moses and the work of Christ so that we do not benefit from the truth that is in both.
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Jesus Christ taught the law lawfully. It is inseperable from grace.
He taught the Jews that mercy must be included when dealing with the law.
He teaches we are taught an eye for an ey and a tooth for a tooth, but this should not be so. He teaches in mercy an dlove we turn the other cheek.
He teaches we are NOT to hate our enemy but love our enemy.
He argued clemency from the law for the woman caught in the act of adultery with many witnesses.
He teaches to some who are using the law hypocritically with rabbinical teaching rather tan applying the three most importan points of the law, faith, justice and mercy. Applying mercy alone is enought to shatter those laws which seem, maybe are totally cruel.
As for being enslaved to merciless law, He declared He desires mercy and not sacrifice..
If we are truly followers of Jesus Christ we will also be as He in that He came to forgive and not to condemn.
When the term, children of obedience , is used in Ephesians, it does not refer to the senseless laws but to all the laws that are moral and just, and with faith in our Master, I know the Holy Spirit guides those who truly are saved and belive Jesus Christ in obeying the law lawfully, for they all have the gift of love and would never even consider being untoward with others or with our Father because of His perfect Gift to all mankind who will accept It, Jesus Christ's Blood cleansing all of the guilt of transgressions.
People may twist Pau's epistlses all they want, but this is not love, and it is not merciful. It is also calling Paul a liar, and wors, Jesus Christ a liar.
No child of the Most High God will ever say once saved we are in grace and we owe nothing to God. We owe oursleves to God more than ever, and we should make ourselves available to Him for at least the miniimum of holy works He provides for all.
Don't get excited when works are mention, works are not being Jesus, Himself, or one of the Twelve. Works are as simply as a good prayer life. Helping the needy whenever possible. Sharing the joy of Jesus Christ with fellow believers,. Praising God, and so much more that allo do quite naturally with their newly acquired nature but do not say we ae to sit on our hands once save, for all who are truly save will do works.
No owrks of mere flesh will ever save a soul, but gratitude will produce works through the Holy Spirit.
The above is from the teaching of Jesus Christ. Paul teaches the same, so do ot pit Paul agains our Savior, his Saavior for that is not works of God.
He taught the Jews that mercy must be included when dealing with the law.
He teaches we are taught an eye for an ey and a tooth for a tooth, but this should not be so. He teaches in mercy an dlove we turn the other cheek.
He teaches we are NOT to hate our enemy but love our enemy.
He argued clemency from the law for the woman caught in the act of adultery with many witnesses.
He teaches to some who are using the law hypocritically with rabbinical teaching rather tan applying the three most importan points of the law, faith, justice and mercy. Applying mercy alone is enought to shatter those laws which seem, maybe are totally cruel.
As for being enslaved to merciless law, He declared He desires mercy and not sacrifice..
If we are truly followers of Jesus Christ we will also be as He in that He came to forgive and not to condemn.
When the term, children of obedience , is used in Ephesians, it does not refer to the senseless laws but to all the laws that are moral and just, and with faith in our Master, I know the Holy Spirit guides those who truly are saved and belive Jesus Christ in obeying the law lawfully, for they all have the gift of love and would never even consider being untoward with others or with our Father because of His perfect Gift to all mankind who will accept It, Jesus Christ's Blood cleansing all of the guilt of transgressions.
People may twist Pau's epistlses all they want, but this is not love, and it is not merciful. It is also calling Paul a liar, and wors, Jesus Christ a liar.
No child of the Most High God will ever say once saved we are in grace and we owe nothing to God. We owe oursleves to God more than ever, and we should make ourselves available to Him for at least the miniimum of holy works He provides for all.
Don't get excited when works are mention, works are not being Jesus, Himself, or one of the Twelve. Works are as simply as a good prayer life. Helping the needy whenever possible. Sharing the joy of Jesus Christ with fellow believers,. Praising God, and so much more that allo do quite naturally with their newly acquired nature but do not say we ae to sit on our hands once save, for all who are truly save will do works.
No owrks of mere flesh will ever save a soul, but gratitude will produce works through the Holy Spirit.
The above is from the teaching of Jesus Christ. Paul teaches the same, so do ot pit Paul agains our Savior, his Saavior for that is not works of God.
Jesus was born under the law ( Gal. 4:4-5 ) and His audience was under the law and during those 33 years He ministered to those people who were under the law so that He might ultimately redeem those who were under the law - how? Through His death.
The New Covenant does not come into being until 33 years after Mat. 1:1. The new way of grace did not come into effect at the birth of Christ but at the death of Christ. It was promised through Abraham but it was brought into effect at the cross - not at Bethlehem.
Hebrews 9:16-17 says the covenant takes effect when one dies - same for Christ.
Not knowing that the purpose of the law of Moses was to reveal and produce sin in our lives will cause us to try to live by the law of Moses when it is the life of Christ that we live from now.
We can trust His life in us to walk in godliness. We don't need to "obey" Lev. 18:23 to not have sex with animals. The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will direct our lives now and stop that from happening. We can trust the Holy Spirit in us.
Read the law of Moses to see Christ in them - NOT as rules or commandments to keep. Christ is the end of the law for all those who believe.
His life in us will manifest true good works and they will originate from Him and not from human flesh and self-effort. No flesh shall glory in His presence.
The New Covenant does not come into being until 33 years after Mat. 1:1. The new way of grace did not come into effect at the birth of Christ but at the death of Christ. It was promised through Abraham but it was brought into effect at the cross - not at Bethlehem.
Hebrews 9:16-17 says the covenant takes effect when one dies - same for Christ.
Not knowing that the purpose of the law of Moses was to reveal and produce sin in our lives will cause us to try to live by the law of Moses when it is the life of Christ that we live from now.
We can trust His life in us to walk in godliness. We don't need to "obey" Lev. 18:23 to not have sex with animals. The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will direct our lives now and stop that from happening. We can trust the Holy Spirit in us.
Read the law of Moses to see Christ in them - NOT as rules or commandments to keep. Christ is the end of the law for all those who believe.
His life in us will manifest true good works and they will originate from Him and not from human flesh and self-effort. No flesh shall glory in His presence.
F
An excerpt from, "The Rest of the Gospel: When the partial Gospel has worn you out” by Dan Stone.
Law and Grace are mortal enemies. Religion asserts, "No, they aren't mortal enemies. They can flow together, like the Missouri and Ohio rivers flow into the Mississippi, and they become the Mississippi." Every place I've ever been in organized religion, I've found that belief. But Paul was saying, "NO. They never flow together. They've always been mortal enemies. They will always be mortal enemies. You can never marry the two. And you have to make a choice, Galatians, are you going to live under law, or under grace?"
Paul wasn't saying that if they stepped back into the law, they wouldn't be saved anymore. But he was telling them, "If you go back to the law, you're giving up the way of grace. Now, let me tell you something about the way of the law, Galatians: you have to keep it all."
They couldn't just pick out the law they wanted to keep. That's what I used to do. I'd pick out those parts of Mosaic Law, Sermon on the Mount law, Baptist law, my personal law, and whatever other law I thought I could keep at least some of the time. I didn't see that law and grace are mortal enemies. I didn't see that you can't live under both.
It made sense to me to be religious. It made sense to be an external Christian, trying to keep an external set of rules. I couldn't do anything else, because I had always been an external person. So were you. We all grew up as external people, defining ourselves in relation to other persons, things, and events that told us who we were. That's why as new Christians we were so prone to asking external questions: "What should I do?"
There's no life in the law. The only thing the law tells you is what you ought to do, but can't do. It will never relinquish its demand that you ought to do it, because it's a divine ought-to; God gave it to Moses. We'll keep ourselves under that divine ought-to, and the condemnation and death ministers (2 Corinthians 3), until we learn to live from the Person who dwells within us. Because there's nothing in our flesh that wants to say, "I can't do it. I can't keep the law through my own effort." Everything in our flesh says, "I want to try to do it, and with God's help maybe I can do it."
Like my friend Burt Rosenburg says, everything in that program is designed for futility, frustration, and failure. But they don't tell you that up front, do they? When you sign up, no one makes this announcement:
WE'VE GOT A WONDERFUL PROGRAM HERE, THE END RESULT OF WHICH WILL BE FUTILITY, FRUSTRATION, AND FAILURE! WHEN YOU HAVE COMPLETED THE COURSE, WE WILL GIVE YOU A DIPLOMA, SAYING:
"CONGRATULATIONS, YOU HAVE FAILED!"
I remember talking to a group and proclaiming, "We have succeeded! In what? In failing!" And everyone smiled. For we finally recognized that we had succeeded in what we were supposed to do, which was to fail. "Everyone is telling us that we failed in what we were supposed to succeed in. But the truth is we have succeeded in what we were supposed to fail in. Now, we can get on with it. We can get on with what is true life."
We usually quote Galatians 2:20 apart from its context. It immediately follows Paul's admonition to Peter concerning the law. When Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ," he was referring to his death to the law. Paul was saying, "The old me died on the cross with Christ, and when I died, I died to trying to keep the law. Trying to keep the law is living according to the flesh, with me and my efforts as my point of reference. I died to myself as my point of reference. Now, Christ in me is my point of reference. He is living His life through me."
As believers, we no longer live under the law, looking to it to tell us what to do and not do, then trying our best to do it. Instead, we live on the faith principle, the inner life principle, of who really is our life - Christ. We trust that He directs us, opens or closes doors for us, and speaks directly to us, giving us a message or whatever is needed for the occasion. We trust that He is living through us. We may not feel it at any given moment, but we live by faith that He is our life.
Law and Grace are mortal enemies. Religion asserts, "No, they aren't mortal enemies. They can flow together, like the Missouri and Ohio rivers flow into the Mississippi, and they become the Mississippi." Every place I've ever been in organized religion, I've found that belief. But Paul was saying, "NO. They never flow together. They've always been mortal enemies. They will always be mortal enemies. You can never marry the two. And you have to make a choice, Galatians, are you going to live under law, or under grace?"
Paul wasn't saying that if they stepped back into the law, they wouldn't be saved anymore. But he was telling them, "If you go back to the law, you're giving up the way of grace. Now, let me tell you something about the way of the law, Galatians: you have to keep it all."
They couldn't just pick out the law they wanted to keep. That's what I used to do. I'd pick out those parts of Mosaic Law, Sermon on the Mount law, Baptist law, my personal law, and whatever other law I thought I could keep at least some of the time. I didn't see that law and grace are mortal enemies. I didn't see that you can't live under both.
It made sense to me to be religious. It made sense to be an external Christian, trying to keep an external set of rules. I couldn't do anything else, because I had always been an external person. So were you. We all grew up as external people, defining ourselves in relation to other persons, things, and events that told us who we were. That's why as new Christians we were so prone to asking external questions: "What should I do?"
There's no life in the law. The only thing the law tells you is what you ought to do, but can't do. It will never relinquish its demand that you ought to do it, because it's a divine ought-to; God gave it to Moses. We'll keep ourselves under that divine ought-to, and the condemnation and death ministers (2 Corinthians 3), until we learn to live from the Person who dwells within us. Because there's nothing in our flesh that wants to say, "I can't do it. I can't keep the law through my own effort." Everything in our flesh says, "I want to try to do it, and with God's help maybe I can do it."
Like my friend Burt Rosenburg says, everything in that program is designed for futility, frustration, and failure. But they don't tell you that up front, do they? When you sign up, no one makes this announcement:
WE'VE GOT A WONDERFUL PROGRAM HERE, THE END RESULT OF WHICH WILL BE FUTILITY, FRUSTRATION, AND FAILURE! WHEN YOU HAVE COMPLETED THE COURSE, WE WILL GIVE YOU A DIPLOMA, SAYING:
"CONGRATULATIONS, YOU HAVE FAILED!"
I remember talking to a group and proclaiming, "We have succeeded! In what? In failing!" And everyone smiled. For we finally recognized that we had succeeded in what we were supposed to do, which was to fail. "Everyone is telling us that we failed in what we were supposed to succeed in. But the truth is we have succeeded in what we were supposed to fail in. Now, we can get on with it. We can get on with what is true life."
We usually quote Galatians 2:20 apart from its context. It immediately follows Paul's admonition to Peter concerning the law. When Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ," he was referring to his death to the law. Paul was saying, "The old me died on the cross with Christ, and when I died, I died to trying to keep the law. Trying to keep the law is living according to the flesh, with me and my efforts as my point of reference. I died to myself as my point of reference. Now, Christ in me is my point of reference. He is living His life through me."
As believers, we no longer live under the law, looking to it to tell us what to do and not do, then trying our best to do it. Instead, we live on the faith principle, the inner life principle, of who really is our life - Christ. We trust that He directs us, opens or closes doors for us, and speaks directly to us, giving us a message or whatever is needed for the occasion. We trust that He is living through us. We may not feel it at any given moment, but we live by faith that He is our life.