Just a question?

[Grace777x70]

God spewing out of His mouth in Revelation is about a whole local church example. Not a believer alone.

The context is about churches. It's about a Luke warm church. So a Luke warm church could lose the presence of the Holy Spirit 'in the midst'. This doesn't mean the individual believers have lost the presence of the Holy Spirit in their soul/spirit.

I agree...this is a perfect example of having church teachings that we have heard all our life say that it is talking about individuals and you better be hot or you'll fry in hell.

Not all traditional church teachings are actually based on truth. This is where when someone starts to speak real truth - they come against church traditions and then you are labelled as a heretic and in error.

They did the same for Martin Luther when he said " The just shall live by faith". The "church teachings" of the time had been that way for 1100 years...selah

They called him as being in error because it went against their established church beliefs. The same happens today in all areas of the truths of the Lord Jesus Christ as they are being revealed by His Spirit to all of us.

 

[eph610]

I agree...this is a perfect example of having church teachings that we have heard all our life say that it is talking about individuals and you better be hot or you'll fry in hell.

Not all traditional church teachings are actually based on truth. This is where when someone starts to speak real truth - they come against church traditions and then you are labelled as a heretic and in error.

They did the same for Martin Luther when he said " The just shall live by faith". The "church teachings" of the time had been that way for 1100 years...selah

They called him as being in error because it went against their established church beliefs. The same happens today in all areas of the truths of the Lord Jesus Christ as they are being revealed by His Spirit to all of us.

This is the case of communicated Bible Knowledge and not revelation Bible knowledge...nothing is wrong with communicated Bible knowledge, but it can and is distorted which leads people into deception, that do not study or gain revelation Bible knowledge on their own...

 

[Grace777x70]

This is the case of communicated Bible Knowledge and not revelation Bible knowledge...nothing is wrong with communicated Bible knowledge, but it can and is distorted which leads people into deception, that do not study or gain revelation Bible knowledge on their own...

Amen...we have to be willing to listen to the Spirit within us in order to grow in Christ and the truth of His redemption for us.

Whenever revealed truth about the work of Christ for us from the Spirit is given - it may clash with the "so-called church teaching and traditional views". Then you will be labelled as being in error and of course the proverbial heretic. It's the nature of the religious tendencies that is in all of our flesh.

I firmly believe that a drawing line is being made - either we will walk in the realities of being in Christ and go on to live in the promised land ( this is not heaven ) or we will continue to wander around in the wilderness of our own making until we die and go to be with the Lord.

The love and grace of our Lord still looks after us in the wilderness as can be seen as a type in the Israelites. They still had God provide for them supernaturally the whole time they were in the wilderness even though God said that they would not enter into the things He had already provided for them in the "promised land" ( which I believe is a type of Christ - not heaven ).

So, to me....supernatural provision is not a sign of believing God for the things He has for us as a new creation in Christ while in this earth - it's a sign of His love, mercy and grace towards us - despite our unbelief.

 

[lastofall]

Unfortunately many which profess Christ until not have not learned to not think above that which is written, but still continue in exaggeration and over-estimation.

 

[RickyZ]

God spewing out of His mouth in Revelation is about a whole local church example. Not a believer alone.

The context is about churches. It's about a Luke warm church. So a Luke warm church could lose the presence of the Holy Spirit 'in the midst'. This doesn't mean the individual believers have lost the presence of the Holy Spirit in their soul/spirit.

I agree...this is a perfect example of having church teachings that we have heard all our life say that it is talking about individuals and you better be hot or you'll fry in hell.

Not all traditional church teachings are actually based on truth. This is where when someone starts to speak real truth - they come against church traditions and then you are labelled as a heretic and in error.

They did the same for Martin Luther when he said " The just shall live by faith". The "church teachings" of the time had been that way for 1100 years...selah

They called him as being in error because it went against their established church beliefs. The same happens today in all areas of the truths of the Lord Jesus Christ as they are being revealed by His Spirit to all of us.

It's true that this scripture addressed church assemblies, but a lukewarm church is typically filled with lukewarm individuals. If you chastise the assembly, do you not chastise those individuals who make it up?

 

[wattie]

It's true that this scripture addressed church assemblies, but a lukewarm church is typically filled with lukewarm individuals. If you chastise the assembly, do you not chastise those individuals who make it up?

Yes, of course the individuals at fault making up that church assembly will be disciplined as God loves them and will correct them. The example though is of characteristics of an assembly as a whole in how they represent God rather than an individual believer particularly targeted.

Of course, it is not easy to discern what the point at which would be where the Holy Spirit would leave an assembly and no longer be in the midst of them.

The Corinthian church had a lot of issues.. but they remained a church God called His own. There was also the problem of fornication across more than just the Corinthian assembly and into other churches in the NT. God definitely disciplined them and corrected, but I don't know of a passage where He left the presence of them.

 

[RickyZ]

Thank you. While the scripture did address the church as a whole, I have to think the message none the less applied to the individual members as well. Is that not a reasonable assumption?

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes, of course the individuals at fault making up that church assembly will be disciplined as God loves them and will correct them. The example though is of characteristics of an assembly as a whole in how they represent God rather than an individual believer particularly targeted.

Of course, it is not easy to discern what the point at which would be where the Holy Spirit would leave an assembly and no longer be in the midst of them.

The Corinthian church had a lot of issues.. but they remained a church God called His own. There was also the problem of fornication across more than just the Corinthian assembly and into other churches in the NT. God definitely disciplined them and corrected, but I don't know of a passage where He left the presence of them.

Does it say that the Holy Spirit is leaving the individual people?...or is that what we think?

I don't see anywhere in the words to the Laodicean church where their lampstand would be taken away. It is said of only one church in particular which is Ephesus.

Maybe a study on "lampstand" might give us some clues to this?

 

[Dan58]

Not true. Sin still has consequences

I agree, but my sarcastic point was that sin has no consequences for those who are saved, regardless of what they do. OSAS is an absolute ideology that affords no repercussions for sin. And if your saved no matter what, why bother wasting time discussing the bible? Righteousness, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing! That's why I adamantly oppose the concept of osas, it breeds hypocrisy and defies biblical teachings that clearly warn of the danger of falling away.. jmo

 

[hornetguy]

I live in north Texas....what is this "icicle" thing of which you speak?

 

[wattie]

Does it say that the Holy Spirit is leaving the individual people?...or is that what we think?

I don't see anywhere in the words to the Laodicean church where their lampstand would be taken away. It is said of only one church in particular which is Ephesus.

Maybe a study on "lampstand" might give us some clues to this?

I think a lot of people assume from this scripture about Laodicea that it is about individuals losing the presence of the Holy Spirit in their soul/spirit.

The scripture itself is about the lampstand though.. as you say.. and that isn't about the individual's spirit/soul.

 

[Stephen63]

They called him as being in error because it went against their established church beliefs. The same happens today in all areas of the truths of the Lord Jesus Christ as they are being revealed by His Spirit to all of us.

If there's new "truths" being revealed today, they:

• Should easily agree with scripture in the NT as well as some of the OT.
• Should agree with ALL the NT, not just some selected writings. Any teaching that speaks against the teachings of Jesus should be condemned.
• Should be heavily scrutinized because false doctrine & false prophets/teachers fill the land. Since we're in the last days & the falling away, there's has to be some new doctrine leading the church astray somewhere.

​
It seems all the "christians" want to talk about today is any kind of "easy" salvation that requires no commitment, no obedience, no conviction..... just a simple "change of mind" & shake the preacher's hand. And there are a few to choose from.

 

[Stephen63]

I think a lot of people assume from this scripture about Laodicea that it is about individuals losing the presence of the Holy Spirit in their soul/spirit.

The scripture itself is about the lampstand though.. as you say.. and that isn't about the individual's spirit/soul.

Revelation 3:14-19 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this: [SUP]15 [/SUP]'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. [SUP]16 [/SUP]'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. [SUP]17 [/SUP]'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, [SUP]18 [/SUP]I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. [SUP]19 [/SUP]'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

"Spit out" is rejection. So, yes the Spirit would be taken away from them, as they would be apostates. Not all of them, though..... there is always a remnant, like the poor left behind when Israel was taken into captivity & a few prophets.

 

[Grace777x70]

An analogy of spewing out warm water from a mouth turns into the Spirit leaving believers? I just can't buy that natural man's thinking.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in and with us forever. The Spirit leaving us would make Him a liar. I don't believe He is a lair. I believe He speaks the truth.

John 14:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

Paul said that after listening to the gospel of our salvation - having believed - we are sealed "in Him" with the Holy Spirit. I don't believe Paul is a liar either. Eph 1:13; Eph.4:30

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

John said in 2 John 1-2 that the truth will be with us and in us forever. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and the Spirit of grace. I don't think John is a liar either.

2 John 1:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:

Never let an obscure scripture rob you of the clear abundant truth of the gospel of the grace of God that is in Christ our Lord. We have a great salvation in Him! He will be faithful to finish what He started within us. We can trust in Him.

 

[Stephen63]

An analogy of spewing out warm water from a mouth turns into the Spirit leaving believers? I just can't buy that natural man's thinking.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in and with us forever. The Spirit leaving us would make Him a liar. I don't believe He is a lair. I believe He speaks the truth.

John 14:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

Paul said that after listening to the gospel of our salvation - having believed - we are sealed "in Him" with the Holy Spirit. I don't believe Paul is a liar either. Eph 1:13; Eph.4:30

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

John said in 2 John 1-2 that the truth will be with us and in us forever. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and the Spirit of grace. I don't think John is a liar either.

2 John 1:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:

Never let an obscure scripture rob you of the clear abundant truth of the gospel of the grace of God that is in Christ our Lord. We have a great salvation in Him! He will be faithful to finish what He started within us. We can trust in Him.

Wonderful..... this picture is a witness to the truth?

So, what do you think..... God physically spews them out of His mouth?

Puking out someone isn't a slap on the wrist, & you're still saved. It's total spiritual rejection.

 

[resurrection33]

Why is this forum and those who frequent it obsessed with the OSAS and hyper-grace topics? There are so many Biblical topics worth discussing but every time I log in these topics dominate the forums and therefore the list of topics on the home page.

Pleeeese can we discuss something else? It's getting boring!

We argue about other things, too.

 

[garee]

Psst.. Read the warning thread that CS1 started.. and don't talk about hyper grace!!

All of God's grace which teaches us to say no to ungodliness is hyper. If it brings salvation it cannot get any more hyper.

The question is do you know another teacher,comforter and guide that can bring salvation?


For the "grace of God" that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;Tit 2:11

 

[Bladerunner]

No, I mean those who are believers and followers of God, but who may be more than a little lax in their prayer life and reading of their bible.. Does God hear their prayers? Because I know there is a bible verse about God spitting out luke-warm believers.

Listen...Listen to your Holy Spirit within you and he will teach you but you have to be willing to learn from Him, He will guide you in daily activities but you have to listen to Him, He will keep, protect and maintain your soul in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit but you have to let Him. Amen

If it has not been done, First above all else you have to let the Holy Spirit in. There is only one way to do that.