How do we view heretic hunters websites that supposedly expose error?

[Grace777x70]

The purpose of this OP is to see how we are to view all the people that are supposedly heretics to someone or to some group.

For example to those that believe in speaking in tongues and actually do pray in tongues on a daily basis to their Father - they have been called heretics by whole denominations because they don't agree with this doctrine.

This will be a 2 post OP. This 1st one is to set up the premise and then 2nd one is to ask questions to see how we are to view this subject.

There are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic.

There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham, Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Dr. Michael Brown, Justin Peters, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Andrew Wommack...etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies".

There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words.

Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics".

Their motto is: "If people don't believe some scriptures in the way that "they" do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say.." This is not what we were taught in "my" church or in our whole church tradition.

It's the nature of the beast. Martin Luther was a heretic to the catholic church at the time because for 1100 years prior to Luther they had always "believed" the same way.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a false teacher and they are in error and a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.

 

[Grace777x70]

It is apparent that every name that is in the media of some sort is a heretic to someone or to whole denominations.

The administrators of internet websites have the right to post their opinion on specific people or on doctrinal issues that they disagree with.

How are we to view these calls from others that these people are in error? If they are in error in one area - does this mean that all that they teach is in error too?

How do we decipher what is error? To some error is different than it is to others depending on our church teachings and upbringing.

1) We are to judge all things by the word of God. The problem that I see is that some people's "application" of it can be different and thus we have different interpretations. We do know that we need the Holy Spirit to reveal the things of God to us as it does not come from natural understanding. Without the revelation of the Spirit of God - the scriptures can sometimes become death instead of life with the wrong application of them.

2) Some say that we are to go by church traditions. That sounds good at the surface however the scribes and Pharisees used the "traditions" argument against Jesus. Paul too was accused by the religious establishment of going against the traditional ways of their faith.

Martin Luther was deemed a heretic because he went against 1,100 years of church traditions when he said "The just shall live by faith" He was deemed to be in error and they persecuted him to the point of trying to kill him.

This being "in error" concept seems to happen whenever the Spirit of God is emphasizing certain aspects of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul says in Col.2:8 that the traditions of men will take us captive. Col.2:6 says As we have received the Lord , so are we to walk "in Him".

I believe that we are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ to us as Mary was dependent on the Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

Does anyone have anything to add to this on how we are to decipher true error? Thank you for your insights.

 

[FreeNChrist]

"In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity."

The problem is that few seem to know what the "essentials" of the Christian faith are anymore. And it is only the denial of one or more of those essentials that qualifies as "heresy". When we feel free to label anything that we disagree with as heresy, then there can be no unity, or liberty, or charity in all things.

 

[Grace777x70]

I just thought of two other sources that is sometimes used as the "standard of truth".

Commentaries.

I personally love to read from commentaries and have about 1/2 dozen or so that I regularly view on some subject. There is an inherent problem with going by commentaries to determine truth - they can be giving out what their denomination has taught them in the past and so we "could be" in another church tradition type of situation be perpetuated.

Commentaries are basically what the author himself thinks about a passage or certain doctrine which is absolutely fine. I find that I get a part from one and a part from a different commentary and the Spirit of God uses them all in some aspect to reveal what He is speaking to me about.

The other one is Greek/Hebrew dictionaries. I find that they too can "sometimes add" their comments to what the actual meaning of the Greek words are which may or may not be entirely true. They "add" their "application" of the meaning of the words - which is fine. But I believe we need to be aware of such things too.

I absolutely love to read the meanings of words in the Greek/Hebrew dictionaries and glean many things that have helped me to grow in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Personally I believe all Christians should be reading the original words as technology has been made available the tools needed to do this - and you don't need to go to seminary to do this elementary study. If you don't use these tools you are "in serious error" ( just kidding - using the play on the term being in error... )

In my opinion - Without the revelation of the Holy Spirit revealing the things of God to us - we can easily create our own religion that displaces the work of Christ in our lives and thus nullify the grace of God that is available for us for life and living.

 

[HisHolly]

For me someone has to hit every point of description of a false teacher that's laid out in 2Peter chapter2.. If they don't I don't dare claim they are as I'm not bold enough to add or take away from the set description.. The Holy Spirit thru Peter describes what you will find in totality when coming across one.

 

[HisHolly]

As far as the hunters go, I just pray for them. God never set specific people nor a calling, anointing to hunt and expose.. They aren't operating out of love. The HS guides us in all truth, if we look to Him as we ought, hunting would cease bc they'd understand, we were all given a guide.. The body is to build up, not hunt and destroy.. It's self seeking in evil motivation. When Jesus called out the leaders on their sin He didn't degrade them, but was addressing the sin so they had no excuse.. He had a purpose for them and told them, didn't go on and on and keep going on the subject or person and tell everyone everywhere...

 

[FlSnookman7]

Great post grace, and I do apologize for being nit picky but I must disagree with "and thus nullify the grace of God that is available for us for life and living." I believe God's grace to be 100% available to me 100% of the time but sometimes I choose not to access it and decide I know whats best. When God drives the bus all is well, when I drive bus, bus goes in ditch.

You might think someone would be quick to learn that lesson but regrettably that has not proven to be the case for me...

 

[Grace777x70]

Great post grace, and I do apologize for being nit picky but I must disagree with "and thus nullify the grace of God that is available for us for life and living." I believe God's grace to be 100% available to me 100% of the time but sometimes I choose not to access it and decide I know whats best. When God drives the bus all is well, when I drive bus, bus goes in ditch.

You might think someone would be quick to learn that lesson but regrettably that has not proven to be the case for me...

I agree with you. Galatians 2:21 is where Paul was saying that that the grace of God can be nullified. The Greek word used here that I have seen means to "reject, or ignore, make void".

I agree that the grace of God is always there but we can ignore it and as you say - drive our own bus. Thanks for your input!

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

 

[Gr8grace]

"In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity."

The problem is that few seem to know what the "essentials" of the Christian faith are anymore. And it is only the denial of one or more of those essentials that qualifies as "heresy". When we feel free to label anything that we disagree with as heresy, then there can be no unity, or liberty, or charity in all things.

Discussion closed. Everybody go home.

This NAILS it.

 

[bluto]

As far as the hunters go, I just pray for them. God never set specific people nor a calling, anointing to hunt and expose.. They aren't operating out of love. The HS guides us in all truth, if we look to Him as we ought, hunting would cease bc they'd understand, we were all given a guide.. The body is to build up, not hunt and destroy.. It's self seeking in evil motivation. When Jesus called out the leaders on their sin He didn't degrade them, but was addressing the sin so they had no excuse.. He had a purpose for them and told them, didn't go on and on and keep going on the subject or person and tell everyone everywhere...

Well holly what you just said here is not true. "God never set specific people nor a calling, anointing to hunt and expose.. They aren't operating out of love." ALL Christians are called to call out error and expose/confront others for what it is. And here just are just a handful of verses.

Matthew 7:15-23, and be sure to read Matthew 1 where Jesus talks about judging others. Titus 1:13, Ephesians 5:11, Isaiah 8:20, 2 Timothy 3:5,7, 1 John 4:1, John the Baptist at Matthew 3:7, 2 Timothy 4:14-15 where the Apostle Paul names names. Like I said, these are just a small handful. And don't forget what love incarnate Jesus Christ had to say at Matthew 23 to the Pharasees in the whole chapter and at Matthew 23:37 He describes His motivation. If you want to be a "passive" Christian, well that is your business, but don't come here telling others how it is when you yourself don't know?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Grace777x70]

As far as the hunters go, I just pray for them. God never set specific people nor a calling, anointing to hunt and expose.. They aren't operating out of love. The HS guides us in all truth, if we look to Him as we ought, hunting would cease bc they'd understand, we were all given a guide.. The body is to build up, not hunt and destroy.. It's self seeking in evil motivation. When Jesus called out the leaders on their sin He didn't degrade them, but was addressing the sin so they had no excuse.. He had a purpose for them and told them, didn't go on and on and keep going on the subject or person and tell everyone everywhere...

I agree...well said! I can see that the way we handle things can make a big difference between us believers. To malign people by name-calling, insults and being condescending to them because they have a different view only causes strife and division amongst us.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[Grace777x70]

Please can we have no name-calling in the thread. Thank you.

 

[1LonelyKnight]

Best to stick to doctrines. Preachers names don't mean much though some entire denominations can be addressed on their doctrinal positions only. OSAS, The Name, Jehovah, Moroni, Mary, Allah, Dhali Lama, Baal, Hellen, NIV, Greasy Grace, Name-it, Claim-it, Prosperity, Eccumenicism and such teachings should be the object of doctrinal discussion. Because entire denominations or large individual churches (and their leaders) gain power and notoriety from these teachings it is proper to expose the unfruitful works of darkness and men (persons) of perdition (purr-dishin').

 

[Grace777x70]

Best to stick to doctrines. Preachers names don't mean much though some entire denominations can be addressed on their doctrinal positions only. OSAS, The Name, Jehovah, Moroni, Mary, Allah, Dhali Lama, Baal, Hellen, NIV, Greasy Grace, Name-it, Claim-it, Prosperity, Eccumenicism and such teachings should be the object of doctrinal discussion. Because entire denominations or large individual churches (and their leaders) gain power and notoriety from these teachings it is proper to expose the unfruitful works of darkness and men (persons) of perdition (purr-dishin').

I agree. I find that if the "messenger" can be dis-credited - then "the message" can get dis-credited if people do not agree with a certain aspect of someone's teachings. You have a great point. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[Joidevivre]

I guess I'm just selective on what I give my attention to. I ignore what I sense is not truth, and go on to what is worthwhile to read or think about.

There will always be attacks on the truth. Heretic hunters will always be here. It is the spirit at work in the world today. It is never good to argue or debate with them. You won't win. I view them as not worth my time.

I wish I was as compassionate as Holly and pray for them. But I find that I have never been inspired to do so. She is truly an intercessor. I'm more inclined to pray for those I sense are just misguided, yet still seeking. It is easy to tell the difference - they never "yell" in your face through the postings. And they don't attack so vehemently.

I agree with the op in that I can only trust continual scripture study and praying for understanding - trusting the Holy Spirit to lead me into the truth. And then hold on to that. Sometimes I feel like the little bird in this picture.

 

[HisHolly]

Well holly what you just said here is not true. "God never set specific people nor a calling, anointing to hunt and expose.. They aren't operating out of love." ALL Christians are called to call out error and expose/confront others for what it is. And here just are just a handful of verses.

Matthew 7:15-23, and be sure to read Matthew 1 where Jesus talks about judging others. Titus 1:13, Ephesians 5:11, Isaiah 8:20, 2 Timothy 3:5,7, 1 John 4:1, John the Baptist at Matthew 3:7, 2 Timothy 4:14-15 where the Apostle Paul names names. Like I said, these are just a small handful. And don't forget what love incarnate Jesus Christ had to say at Matthew 23 to the Pharasees in the whole chapter and at Matthew 23:37 He describes His motivation. If you want to be a "passive" Christian, well that is your business, but don't come here telling others how it is when you yourself don't know?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

We are discussing current events please keep up..
I'm aware of those who called but repentance was the goal, not embarrassing, degradation, and all that happens online.. It's not passively sitting by, it understanding souls are at stake and we have spiritual warfare, not a blood bath with humans.. So no I don't go after and destroy.. Again, if they don't fit all of 2p2, they aren't false.. God's goal is salvation, if that isn't in a message directed to someone, they aren't sent by God.. I do understand .. He doesn't send out destroying hunters.. please address my point not gloss over and make them different

 

[Grace777x70]

The other aspect is that all of us only see in part and as Paul said " Those that think they know something - don't know it as they ought to know it".

We are all learning about this walk with our Lord together and we need each other.

I always ask myself 3 questions about truth or a teaching.

1) Does it make Jesus bigger in your heart when you see His work and majesty? ( Or does it bring fear and insecurity because you are not "doing" enough to stay saved? )

2) Does it make you depend on Jesus and His finished work? ( or does it depend on what you do and depend on yourself?)

3) Does it make you fall deeply in love with your Lord, our Father and with all people? (Or does it make you view God as being a heavy task-master and so we view others as accursed, hated by God...etc - even though He loves them so much He sent His Son to die for them )

If I can answer these questions in the affirmative - then it is the good news of the grace of Christ.

We can view scriptures through the lens of the Old Covenant and then try to mix in a little of the New Covenant and we end up in mess of "working to maintain" our own righteousness for going to heaven.

When ever we don't factor in the finished work of Christ nor the real purpose for Jesus dying for us - the fact that God loves us dearly and He is not looking for ways to keep people from Him - we will end up in error as we are mixing up the covenants.

Bearing fruit stems from the life of Christ in us. He is the Vine we are the branches. The branch does not produce it's own fruit. It bears the life of the Vine.

The fruit of the Spirit being produced is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, meekness, goodness, faith and self-control. Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit of God living in us - not a product of self-effort in the flesh. There are counterfeits of all these fruit that the flesh can try to generate but they are not from God.

There is good fruit and bad fruit of the flesh - but it is still flesh. Outwardly these are sometimes hard to discern. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil had both types of fruit on it. Don't eat from that tree.

Eat from the tree of life - Christ = who is inside of us wanting to bear His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world as well as to our fellow brethren. We are one with Him in the spirit.

Let's keep beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord and the Holy Spirit will transforms us outwardly to reflect our true nature in our new creations in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

Those are my thoughts on how I view a teaching from anyone and there is no one teacher I agree with fully on every subject no matter who they are or the number of people that listen to any one person.

I hope in 2 years I will not agree with all that I believe now as I see new truths of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father. I look forward to repenting as I see new facets of the love and grace of God toward us that are in Christ.

 

[ladylynn]

This is a good thread Grace777 thanks for posting it. I agree with what everyone has posted here. It's important to hear each other out on a subject. For instance when some people (not all) but some people who don't believe in the gift of tongues hears that I do. Some people automatically think of those people on youtube who are barking out of control. They are exhibiting all kinds of uncontrollable body movements and falling down and in some kind of daze.

What is that!!???

I certainly don't know but it isn't anything I'm familiar with. But because that is what is 'out there' and posted by these heretic hunting sites that is what is taught about the gift of tongues. There are many believers on CC who speak in tongues and none that I know endorse uncontrollable disorder like what is on those heretic hunting sites from youtube or some tribe in Africa or some back woods southern area in the 1960s who have a basket of snakes for people to touch.

So it's important to hear one another out on these subjects before judging each other to be doing what youtube says.

You are right Bruce, there are some excellent commentaries out there and they don't all agree. I love commentaries and use them often but very much am aware that these are men with clay feet all of them. Just like me with my clay feet.,. God uses people with clay feet all the time.

Some men with clay feet don't agree with all that I believe but that is ok because as FreeInChrist said in his post;

"In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity."

The problem is that few seem to know what the "essentials" of the Christian faith are anymore. And it is only the denial of one or more of those essentials that qualifies as "heresy". When we feel free to label anything that we disagree with as heresy, then there can be no unity, or liberty, or charity in all things.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Those are good words FreeInChrist. No wonder we are to have charity in all things. Love thinks the best of every person., sort of gives the benefit of the doubt. Many of us have been posting here for a few years and are obviously not endorsing wackiness. And it takes time to get to know one another.

 

[ladylynn]

I agree with you Holly., it is not being passive at all. If anything., being what some would call "passive" is the more wise action to have. Jumping in and condemning before knowing someone is not wise. Taking time and learning is not easy because the human thing to do is jump in with both feet and stomp out what we don't agree with.

This is just not wise because hearts are not worn on the outside of people. A believer could find out later after they destroyed someone that it was their very dear brother or sister in Christ. Words can't always be taken back and that is another reason we are not to bite and devour one another. YIKES what an awful thing but God knew how in our human religious zeal, we can and often do have zeal without knowledge.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

I think the word heretic should be considered a swear word and be automatically bleeped.

I cannot help but think of the inquisition and all the terrible things they did to "heretics"