Why God's Purpose for the Tribulation excludes the Church

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Aug 19, 2016
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#1
The Tribulation Focuses on Israel

The Bible teaches that the tribulation is a time of preparation for Israel's restoration and conversion (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:3-11; Zech. 12:10).1 While the church will experience tribulation in general during this present age (John 15:18-25; 16:33; 2 Tim. 3:10-13), she is never mentioned as participating in Israel's time of trouble, which includes the Great
Tribulation, the Day of the Lord, and the Wrath of God. Gerald Stanton explains:

The Tribulation does not deal with the Church at all, but with the purification of Israel. It is not the "time of the Church's trouble," but the "time of Jacob's trouble." The emphasis of the Tribulation is primarily Jewish. This fact is borne out by Old Testament Scriptures (Deut. 4: 30; Jer. 30: 7; Ezek. 20: 37; Dan. 12:1; Zech. 13:8-9), by the Olivet Discourse of Christ (Matt. 24:9-26), and by the book of Revelation itself (Rev. 7:4-8; 12:1-2; 17, etc.). It concerns "Daniel's people," the coming of "false Messiah," the preaching of the "gospel of the kingdom," flight on the "sabbath," the temple and the "holy place," the land of Judea, the city of Jerusalem, the twelve "tribes of the children of Israel," the "son of Moses," "signs" inthe heavens, the "covenant" with the Beast, the "sanctuary," the "sacrifice and the oblation" of the temple ritual. These all speak of Israel and clearly demonstrate that the Tribulation is largely a time when God deals with His ancient people prior to their entrance into the promised kingdom. The many Old Testament prophecies yet to be fulfilled for Israel further indicate a future time when God will deal with this nation (Deut. 30:1-6; Jer. 30:8-10, etc.).2

The Church is Absent from the Tribulation

Not one Old Testament passage on the tribulation refers to the church (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11; Dan. 8:24-27; 12:1-2), nor does the New Testament ever speak of the church in relation to the tribulation (Matt. 13:30, 39-42, 48-50; 24:15-31; 1 Thess. 1:9-10, 5:4-9; 2 Thess. 2:1-11; Rev. 4-18), except as present in heaven. Such silence speaks loudly and supports the pre-trib position, especially when combined with clear, explicit statements that promise her exemption from that time (Rom. 5:9; 1 Thess. 1:10; 5:9; Rev. 3:10). Note the clear promise to the church of Revelation 3:10:

Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell upon the earth.

If pretribulationism is indeed the teaching of Scripture, then we would expect that passages dealing with the tribulation would consistently make no mention of the church. This is exactly what we find. However, Israel is mentioned often throughout these texts. Dr. Robert Gromacki has studied the New Testament book of Revelation, chapters 4-19, which gives the most detailed overview of the seven-year tribulation in all the Bible. He has shown the following:

However, there is a strange silence of the term in chapters 4-19. That fact is especially noteworthy when you contrast that absence with its frequent presence in the first three chapters. One good reason for this phenomenon is the absence of the true church and true evangelical churches in the seven years preceding the Second Coming. The true believers of the church have gone into the presence of Christ in heaven before the onset of the events of the seven year period. The church is not mentioned during the seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments because the church is not here during the outpouring of these judgments.3

Conclusion

Only pretribulationism is able to give full import to tribulation terms like "the time of Jacob's trouble" (Jer. 30:7), as a passage specifically stating that the tribulation is for Jacob (i.e., Israel). John Walvoord concludes,
Never are tribulation saints given the special and perculiar promises given to the church in the present age. The nature of the church in contrast to Israel therefore becomes an argument supporting the pretribulation viewpoint.5
Since God's purpose for the tribulation is to restore Israel (Jer. 30:3, 10) and judge the Gentiles (Jer. 30:11), it is clear that this purpose does not include the church. This is one of the reasons why she will be taken to heaven before this time. The church's hope is a heavenly one, not participation in the culmination and restoration of God's plan for His earthly people-Israel. Maranatha! By Thomas Ice. PhD.



Quasar92
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,211
2,547
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#2
I have no stance on the timing of the rapture but you are incorrect in saying only Israel will experience the tribulation, For instance America is not mentioned by name in the bible but is rather hinted by the many descriptions of America and is refer to as babylon, like babylon we are spoiled and have more than our fill yet are greedy and ungrateful like babylon we are unholy perverted and are prideful in all our ways like babylon we we have turned away from our first love and seek out self image self pride self love we are the very image of greed and lust just as Babylon was.

And I am sure you know what happens to babylon. if the scriptures were not clear enough I have seen what is coming it's unlike anything you have ever seen or heard of it doesn't even belong in horror films. the way Pharaoh slaughtered newborns and how the plagues swampt Egypt is nothing in comparison of what is coming. In all honesty we should beg God to delay it out of mercy
 
Aug 19, 2016
721
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#3
I have no stance on the timing of the rapture but you are incorrect in saying only Israel will experience the tribulation, For instance America is not mentioned by name in the bible but is rather hinted by the many descriptions of America and is refer to as babylon, like babylon we are spoiled and have more than our fill yet are greedy and ungrateful like babylon we are unholy perverted and are prideful in all our ways like babylon we we have turned away from our first love and seek out self image self pride self love we are the very image of greed and lust just as Babylon was.

And I am sure you know what happens to babylon. if the scriptures were not clear enough I have seen what is coming it's unlike anything you have ever seen or heard of it doesn't even belong in horror films. the way Pharaoh slaughtered newborns and how the plagues swampt Egypt is nothing in comparison of what is coming. In all honesty we should beg God to delay it out of mercy

You labor under false pretenses. I did not say or infer that Israel will be the exclusive victim of the tribulation. But rather, it will be world wide and all the Godless, wicked and non-believers will be the victims of God's wrath during that period of time.


Quasar92
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
588
113
#4
...Why God's Purpose for the Tribulation excludes the Church...




The teacher who teaches a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture, the Lord Jesus states is amongst the false prophets of the last days! Matt 24v11,23-31, Rev 1v7

Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are spoken by hte Lord Jesus to THE CHURCH, NOT the Jews in response to a question asked by the disciples! Matt24v3

The Lord Jesus comes in great glory and power IMMEDIATELY after the great tribulation to take His people home, to deal with the wicked and set up the Millennium Kingdom. Matt 24v29-31, Titus 2v13, Rev 11v15-19

And if you look at 2Thess 2v1-3 it states: "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition..."

It clearly states that the Day of the Lord CANNOT come unless Antichrist is FIRST revealed! (i.e., Matt 24v15 with Dan 9v27, 11v31, 12v11)

If you (or anybody else) teach deliberate lies about the Second Coming of Christ, HE will personally deal with you! Rev 22v18,19
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,211
2,547
113
#5
You labor under false pretenses. I did not say or infer that Israel will be the exclusive victim of the tribulation. But rather, it will be world wide and all the Godless, wicked and non-believers will be the victims of God's wrath during that period of time.


Quasar92
If I misunderstood I apologize also I don't know if the church will be excluded from all of this, it's very possible that we will go through all of this as well but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
I don't know if the pretrib mid trib or post trib is the correct view but it would make sense that in the midst of all the chaos and darkness in a time where more than any other time in history love hope peace and all forms of God's heart would be needed the most that he would have those who bear his love and his heart to shine in a time where there is no light.

Me personally I absolutely would love to go home more than I can stand but at the same time I did not seek to become strong in love to keep it to myself and in that time if I was looking down on earth and seeing all this happen my heart would ache and would likely ask father to allow me to serve and to give hope and life for those in this time of hopeless darkness. but regardless how it happens when it happens I only this I trust fathers judgement.
I don't know if we are to go home and not experience this or if we are to go through but I think it wise to prepare our hearts for either view of it because this time is coming and is coming rapidly at a dangerous rate most don't see it they see it very far away like looking through a telescope backwards when in fact it's right at our doors.

and if our hearts are not prepared none of us will stand even those who thought their hearts were prepared, the only way we can be prepared is to continually seek a closer love with God and to seek his heart out every day in any way we can only those hearts will be prepared when the time comes
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#6
The teacher who teaches a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture, the Lord Jesus states is amongst the false prophets of the last days! Matt 24v11,23-31, Rev 1v7

Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are spoken by hte Lord Jesus to THE CHURCH, NOT the Jews in response to a question asked by the disciples! Matt24v3

The Lord Jesus comes in great glory and power IMMEDIATELY after the great tribulation to take His people home, to deal with the wicked and set up the Millennium Kingdom. Matt 24v29-31, Titus 2v13, Rev 11v15-19

And if you look at 2Thess 2v1-3 it states: "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition..."

It clearly states that the Day of the Lord CANNOT come unless Antichrist is FIRST revealed! (i.e., Matt 24v15 with Dan 9v27, 11v31, 12v11)

If you (or anybody else) teach deliberate lies about the Second Coming of Christ, HE will personally deal with you! Rev 22v18,19
Very strong condemnation for one who is sincerely wrong on this subject. You of course pronounce condemnation upon yourself as you condemn others.

Of course the anti-Christ must be revealed but he will not appear as long as the church is present. Israel will not follow a Gentile so anti-Christ must be Jewish. All of the events surrounding the tribulation and second coming of Christ are centered on Jerusalem and Israel. Israel and Jerusalem are the focal points of hate toward God.

Threatening others while you misinterpret scripture is surely a less than wise undertaking.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Aug 19, 2016
721
3
0
#7
The teacher who teaches a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture, the Lord Jesus states is amongst the false prophets of the last days! Matt 24v11,23-31, Rev 1v7

Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are spoken by hte Lord Jesus to THE CHURCH, NOT the Jews in response to a question asked by the disciples! Matt24v3

The Lord Jesus comes in great glory and power IMMEDIATELY after the great tribulation to take His people home, to deal with the wicked and set up the Millennium Kingdom. Matt 24v29-31, Titus 2v13, Rev 11v15-19

And if you look at 2Thess 2v1-3 it states: "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition..."

It clearly states that the Day of the Lord CANNOT come unless Antichrist is FIRST revealed! (i.e., Matt 24v15 with Dan 9v27, 11v31, 12v11)

If you (or anybody else) teach deliberate lies about the Second Coming of Christ, HE will personally deal with you! Rev 22v18,19

FYI, Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul are the teachers of the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, whom you are calling liars! Capiche? Review the following and show me a single thing about it that is falkse, or the convoluted views you have are:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - Christian Discussion Forums | CARM Christian Forums

Scripturalproof for the pre-tribrapture of the Church: - Christian Discussion Forums | CARM Christian Forums

A Scriptural chronological step by step order of end times events:

The chronological order of end times events as outlined in the Bible: - Christian Discussion Forums | CARM Christian Forums
 
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jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
588
113
#8
Very strong condemnation for one who is sincerely wrong on this subject. You of course pronounce condemnation upon yourself as you condemn others.

Of course the anti-Christ must be revealed but he will not appear as long as the church is present. Israel will not follow a Gentile so anti-Christ must be Jewish. All of the events surrounding the tribulation and second coming of Christ are centered on Jerusalem and Israel. Israel and Jerusalem are the focal points of hate toward God.

Threatening others while you misinterpret scripture is surely a less than wise undertaking.

For the cause of.....Roger
The warning is for ALL who teach a secret pretribulation advent and rapture as it is a destructive heresy, and if you propagate it, then the warning should be taken seriously be you as well!

Hopefully that's blunt enough for you!
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#9
The warning is for ALL who teach a secret pretribulation advent and rapture as it is a destructive heresy, and if you propagate it, then the warning should be taken seriously be you as well!

Hopefully that's blunt enough for you!
I'm not concerned about blunt. I am concerned about truth. There is nothing secret about the rapture of the church. It is not for the unsaved world and they will not receive it but it is not secret. Calling it secret is simply attempting to vilify scriptural truth for ones own gratification.

The rapture of the church is a comfort to the church as it endures tribulation and persecution while it longs to be in the presence of Christ.

The seven years of great tribulation is pronounced not upon the church but upon unbelieving Israel and all those who would seek to destroy Israel from off the earth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Aug 19, 2016
721
3
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#10
I'm not concerned about blunt. I am concerned about truth. There is nothing secret about the rapture of the church. It is not for the unsaved world and they will not receive it but it is not secret. Calling it secret is simply attempting to vilify scriptural truth for ones own gratification.

The rapture of the church is a comfort to the church as it endures tribulation and persecution while it longs to be in the presence of Christ.

The seven years of great tribulation is pronounced not upon the church but upon unbelieving Israel and all those who would seek to destroy Israel from off the earth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes, and in addition God's wrath will involve every Godless and, non-believer and wicked person on earth.


Quasar92