Free Will thread, Hiz and Blain
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These were my first thoughts on the topic:
All have free will, humans, Satan, malakim, and whatever else there is.
Without Satan rebelling, all being would be like automatons. This creates a choice, a test to see who is worthy of eternal life, without this test it's either automatons or none would ever prove their worth.
Remember Yahshua/Jesus was also tempted and we have Him to rely on.
Hebrews 4:1-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of Yahweh, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are--yet was without sin."
1 Peter/Kepha 1:3-7, "Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a deliverance ready to be revealed in the last time, in which you exult, even though for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by manifold trials, in order that the proving of your belief – much more precious than gold that perishes, and proven by fire – might be found to result in praise and respect and esteem at the revelation of יהושע Messiah,
1 Peter/Kepha 4:12-13, "Beloved ones, do not be surprised at the fiery trial that is coming upon you, to try you, as though some unusual matter has befallen you, but as you share Messiah’s sufferings, rejoice, in order that you might rejoice exultingly at the revelation of His esteem."
Zecharyah 13:9, “And I shall bring the third into fire, and refine them as silver is refined, and try them as gold is tried. They shall call on My Name, and I shall answer them. I shall say, ‘This is My people,’ while they say, ‘ יהוה is my Strength.”
All have free will, humans, Satan, malakim, and whatever else there is.
Without Satan rebelling, all being would be like automatons. This creates a choice, a test to see who is worthy of eternal life, without this test it's either automatons or none would ever prove their worth.
Remember Yahshua/Jesus was also tempted and we have Him to rely on.
Hebrews 4:1-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of Yahweh, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are--yet was without sin."
1 Peter/Kepha 1:3-7, "Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a deliverance ready to be revealed in the last time, in which you exult, even though for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by manifold trials, in order that the proving of your belief – much more precious than gold that perishes, and proven by fire – might be found to result in praise and respect and esteem at the revelation of יהושע Messiah,
1 Peter/Kepha 4:12-13, "Beloved ones, do not be surprised at the fiery trial that is coming upon you, to try you, as though some unusual matter has befallen you, but as you share Messiah’s sufferings, rejoice, in order that you might rejoice exultingly at the revelation of His esteem."
Zecharyah 13:9, “And I shall bring the third into fire, and refine them as silver is refined, and try them as gold is tried. They shall call on My Name, and I shall answer them. I shall say, ‘This is My people,’ while they say, ‘ יהוה is my Strength.”
Romans one (21 and on) says that we had knowledge of God but squelched it and turned away from the Truth. That is the role of the flesh, naturally: it turns from God to self.
Everything in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes,
and the pride of life--comes not from the Father but from the world.
Everything in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes,
and the pride of life--comes not from the Father but from the world.
This is an important verse IMO, it makes me think about all the distractions and pitfalls of the world, and how it is my responsibility, via free will, to use the Strength Yah has given me and guided me to overcome. Just a thought.
James/Ya'aqob 1:13-15, ""Let no one say when he is enticed, “I am enticed by Yah, for Yah is not enticed by evil matters, and He entices no one. But each one is enticed when he is drawn away by his own desires and trapped. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death."
James/Ya'aqob 1:13-15, ""Let no one say when he is enticed, “I am enticed by Yah, for Yah is not enticed by evil matters, and He entices no one. But each one is enticed when he is drawn away by his own desires and trapped. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death."
Here is a great parable about being guarded against "consuming" evil worldly things that may "defile us, remember it's a parable:
Mark 7:17-23, " And when He went from the crowd into a house, His taught ones asked Him concerning the parable: And He said to them, “Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside is unable to defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purging all the foods? And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil reasonings, adulteries, whorings, murders, thefts, greedy desires, wickednesses, deceit, indecency, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these wicked matters come from within and defile a man.”
So much here... First it makes me think I need to guard myself with the armor of Yah as to not let evil into my heart, where it may then spew forth...
Mark 7:17-23, " And when He went from the crowd into a house, His taught ones asked Him concerning the parable: And He said to them, “Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside is unable to defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purging all the foods? And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil reasonings, adulteries, whorings, murders, thefts, greedy desires, wickednesses, deceit, indecency, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these wicked matters come from within and defile a man.”
So much here... First it makes me think I need to guard myself with the armor of Yah as to not let evil into my heart, where it may then spew forth...
Trying to explain my dopey mind is always a challenge....
I think of it like...I didn't choose God - He chose me. And had He not chosen to show me His Son, and had He not gifted me with faith, then I would still be exactly where I was.
And part of my knot is that it sounds very self righteous to me when I hear someone say in some form or another, to another: I chose well and so am going to heaven. You chose poorly and so are going to hell.
Does that make sense? It seems then that they think there was this good thing in them (free will) that helped them to be saved.
I think of it like...I didn't choose God - He chose me. And had He not chosen to show me His Son, and had He not gifted me with faith, then I would still be exactly where I was.
And part of my knot is that it sounds very self righteous to me when I hear someone say in some form or another, to another: I chose well and so am going to heaven. You chose poorly and so are going to hell.
Does that make sense? It seems then that they think there was this good thing in them (free will) that helped them to be saved.
We all have free will even before we are saved. When I was a kid In was told not eat the crayon as I was curious as to what it tasted like now pause here and consider what is going on in my mind. I was told not to eat to it I could have chosen to listen but my curiosity got the best of me and I took a bit only to spit it out in disgust.
This is free will the ability to choose. Now if we are going into the will of the mind flesh and the spirit we have consider that the mind is what controls the body and thus controls the flesh but the heart is what controls the spirit or rather the spirit we live act and speak by.
Normally we live according to our own will the fleshly will we act on what we think what we like what we hate and what we love the human will is separate from the will of God it is the polar opposite. The will of God however resides in the heart of the person and opposes what the fleshes will wants in every way.
Everyday our fee will is being used by both God and satan, the rules is they can only influence our free will they whisper to us what do and what not to do exactly like the cartoon angel and devil on your right and left shoulder you see in cartoons.
The thing is because of free will ones destiny is never set in stone, It was not always guaranteed that I would come to Christ it was a decision I had to make for myself.
This is free will the ability to choose. Now if we are going into the will of the mind flesh and the spirit we have consider that the mind is what controls the body and thus controls the flesh but the heart is what controls the spirit or rather the spirit we live act and speak by.
Normally we live according to our own will the fleshly will we act on what we think what we like what we hate and what we love the human will is separate from the will of God it is the polar opposite. The will of God however resides in the heart of the person and opposes what the fleshes will wants in every way.
Everyday our fee will is being used by both God and satan, the rules is they can only influence our free will they whisper to us what do and what not to do exactly like the cartoon angel and devil on your right and left shoulder you see in cartoons.
The thing is because of free will ones destiny is never set in stone, It was not always guaranteed that I would come to Christ it was a decision I had to make for myself.
Trying to explain my dopey mind is always a challenge....
I think of it like...I didn't choose God - He chose me. And had He not chosen to show me His Son, and had He not gifted me with faith, then I would still be exactly where I was.
And part of my knot is that it sounds very self righteous to me when I hear someone say in some form or another, to another: I chose well and so am going to heaven. You chose poorly and so are going to hell.
Does that make sense? It seems then that they think there was this good thing in them (free will) that helped them to be saved.
I think of it like...I didn't choose God - He chose me. And had He not chosen to show me His Son, and had He not gifted me with faith, then I would still be exactly where I was.
And part of my knot is that it sounds very self righteous to me when I hear someone say in some form or another, to another: I chose well and so am going to heaven. You chose poorly and so are going to hell.
Does that make sense? It seems then that they think there was this good thing in them (free will) that helped them to be saved.
When the Most High sets a path before us, we have a choice to follow it or not, to me that is the biggest life choice, since He says:
John (Yahchanan) 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
I feel if I depend on Him with my free will, I will be guided, protected, strengthened, etc. to stay on His path and do His will. So, even though I have free will, He would be helping me along they way. To me this is a way to place free will Inside His will.
Any thought on this? (just thinking out loud)
John (Yahchanan) 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
I feel if I depend on Him with my free will, I will be guided, protected, strengthened, etc. to stay on His path and do His will. So, even though I have free will, He would be helping me along they way. To me this is a way to place free will Inside His will.
Any thought on this? (just thinking out loud)
P
I believe in a free will. Some Christians who hold more Calvinist theological views do not believe in a free will. I don't think from reading your other posts that you are a true 5 point Calvinist.
I believe that sin is a choice. We choose to sin and gratify our own desires and this voluntary disobedience estranged us from God. Prior to our conversion, we are the slave of sin. It might appear to us that we never had a free will because as far as we can remember we have been committing sins. We might not even be conscious of making choices to sin. I do think that once a person yields to sin the very first time ( for most of us that happened when we were very young), they become a "sinner" and no longer in right standing with God. They are now under the power of sin and have defiled their nature and spirit. Once we yield to sin, it becomes harder and harder to resist. Sin becomes normal to us, our conscience gets quieted, and we plunge further into in sin. It becomes habit and natural.
Technically, we have the capability to choose to repent and turn to God at any time. However, we become so hardened from our sins, our understanding and conscience muddled, and our concept of right and wrong so mixed up, that left to our own devices we will never seek God. I believe that conversion is a work of the Holy Spirit. He awakens our mind and conscience and melts our hardened heart. I think this state of hardness of heart can appear to us that we had no free will to do anything but continue to sin. We do have a free will though. We can choose to respond to the Holy Spirit's influence in our lives or we can reject it. Salvation is based on faith in Christ. We have the choice to believe in him and repent or resist. We still shouldn't think that we saved ourselves by repentance. I view it more that we responded correctly to God's influence.
I believe that sin is a choice. We choose to sin and gratify our own desires and this voluntary disobedience estranged us from God. Prior to our conversion, we are the slave of sin. It might appear to us that we never had a free will because as far as we can remember we have been committing sins. We might not even be conscious of making choices to sin. I do think that once a person yields to sin the very first time ( for most of us that happened when we were very young), they become a "sinner" and no longer in right standing with God. They are now under the power of sin and have defiled their nature and spirit. Once we yield to sin, it becomes harder and harder to resist. Sin becomes normal to us, our conscience gets quieted, and we plunge further into in sin. It becomes habit and natural.
Technically, we have the capability to choose to repent and turn to God at any time. However, we become so hardened from our sins, our understanding and conscience muddled, and our concept of right and wrong so mixed up, that left to our own devices we will never seek God. I believe that conversion is a work of the Holy Spirit. He awakens our mind and conscience and melts our hardened heart. I think this state of hardness of heart can appear to us that we had no free will to do anything but continue to sin. We do have a free will though. We can choose to respond to the Holy Spirit's influence in our lives or we can reject it. Salvation is based on faith in Christ. We have the choice to believe in him and repent or resist. We still shouldn't think that we saved ourselves by repentance. I view it more that we responded correctly to God's influence.
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This thought sits very uneasily in my mind that we are all given a choice/test and to choose to believe is what determines if we are worthy of eternal life. (your third paragraph). This isn't how it happened with me. I didn't choose to believe. I just suddenly saw God existed when I read the gospels. And after I saw that, it wasn't a choice to believe...
Trying to explain my dopey mind is always a challenge....
I think of it like...I didn't choose God - He chose me. And had He not chosen to show me His Son, and had He not gifted me with faith, then I would still be exactly where I was.
And part of my knot is that it sounds very self righteous to me when I hear someone say in some form or another, to another: I chose well and so am going to heaven. You chose poorly and so are going to hell.
Does that make sense? It seems then that they think there was this good thing in them (free will) that helped them to be saved.
I think of it like...I didn't choose God - He chose me. And had He not chosen to show me His Son, and had He not gifted me with faith, then I would still be exactly where I was.
And part of my knot is that it sounds very self righteous to me when I hear someone say in some form or another, to another: I chose well and so am going to heaven. You chose poorly and so are going to hell.
Does that make sense? It seems then that they think there was this good thing in them (free will) that helped them to be saved.
I find that calling it free will lends itself to misunderstanding and abuse, simply because we are free to make so many choices that have no bearing on our eternal fate. However, the pitting of the self against God is much more clearly grasped as the human condition, and what we are born into as a result of the sin of Adam, and why we are in need of a Spiritual rebirth through the Holy Spirit of God, made possible through the gift of grace through faith, in the righteous blood of Jesus Christ shed on our behalf out of His great love for us, that we may be reconciled to our Creator, Who offers us much more than we can even begin to imagine in the state we now exist. I do liken it to the caterpillar and butterfly. We make straight our paths, and lo! Who is that knocking on the door of our heart?
Repent and believe the good news. Jesus started His earthly ministry with those very words.
He would hardly invite us to do that if we had no choice in the matter.
I think every human alive has had signs He is real, yet some become hardened any deny, you chose to accept, IMO. You case sounds similar to mine btw.
Rom 1:19-21, "because that which is known of Yah is manifest among them, for Yah has manifested it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible qualities have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, both His everlasting power and Mightiness, for them to be without excuse, because, although they knew Yah, they did not esteem Him as the Most High, nor gave thanks, but became vain in their reasonings, and their undiscerning heart was darkened."
I think you shopuld be joyful!
Psalm 19:1, "The heavens are proclaiming the esteem of the Most High; And the expanse is declaring the work of His hand."
Psalm 100:1-5, "Make a joyful shout to YHWH, all you lands. Serve YHWH with gladness! Come before His presence with singing! Know that YHWH is our Father! It is He Who made us, and not we ourselves. We are His people, and the sheep of His pasture. Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise. Be thankful to Him, and bless His Name! For YHWH is righteous, His mercy is everlasting, and His truth endures throughout all generations!"
Rom 1:19-21, "because that which is known of Yah is manifest among them, for Yah has manifested it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible qualities have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, both His everlasting power and Mightiness, for them to be without excuse, because, although they knew Yah, they did not esteem Him as the Most High, nor gave thanks, but became vain in their reasonings, and their undiscerning heart was darkened."
I think you shopuld be joyful!
Psalm 19:1, "The heavens are proclaiming the esteem of the Most High; And the expanse is declaring the work of His hand."
Psalm 100:1-5, "Make a joyful shout to YHWH, all you lands. Serve YHWH with gladness! Come before His presence with singing! Know that YHWH is our Father! It is He Who made us, and not we ourselves. We are His people, and the sheep of His pasture. Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise. Be thankful to Him, and bless His Name! For YHWH is righteous, His mercy is everlasting, and His truth endures throughout all generations!"
1John 2:2, "And He Himself is an atoning offering for our sins, and not for ours only but also for all the world."
John 6:37, “All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I shall by no means cast out."
But we know some will reject Him...
John 3:19-21, “And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. For everyone who is practising evil matters hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But the one doing the truth comes to the light, so that his works are clearly seen, that they have been wrought in the Most High.”
John 6:37, “All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I shall by no means cast out."
But we know some will reject Him...
John 3:19-21, “And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. For everyone who is practising evil matters hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But the one doing the truth comes to the light, so that his works are clearly seen, that they have been wrought in the Most High.”
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