Ambition and Self Love

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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#1
Nov 12, 2015
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#1
Johann Arndt says that what separated man from God was ambition and self love. I never saw it quite this way but it is true.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#2
Nov 12, 2015
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#2
Arndt quotes Augustine: If to love God is the greatest good to man, to love himself must needs be his greatest evil.

I have tried to read Augustine many times but always had to put it down. Maybe I'm ready to try again, because this that he says is very good.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#3
Nov 12, 2015
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This is also by Arndt:

In every christian there is found a twofold man, opposed, like their fruits, to one another. This will more fully appear from the following statement:

Adam,
Christ

Old man,
New man

old birth,
New birth

Outward man,
Inward man

Flesh,
Spirit
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#4
Feb 7, 2015
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#4
Humm........ I seem to remember that we are told to both love God and love man.... AND that we are to love man (our neighbor) "as we love ourselves."
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#5
Nov 12, 2015
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Willie-T said:
Humm........ I seem to remember that we are told to both love God and love man.... AND that we are to love man (our neighbor) "as we love ourselves."
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Where you been mister?? :)
If we don't love God, we cannot in truth love our neighbor because we are too busy loving ourselves.
Also, if we don't love our neighbor, we are deluded to think we are loving God.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#6
Feb 7, 2015
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#6
Even the "judgment" of the Sheep & Goats is done on the basis of our love for mankind, and our treatment of them.... not on the basis of our professions of love toward God, nor for our ritualistic performances or church attendance.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#7
Nov 12, 2015
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#7
I think that verse means that we are to esteem our neighbor, not less than we esteem ourselves.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#8
Nov 12, 2015
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#8
Willie-T said:
Even the "judgment" of the Sheep & Goats is done on the basis of our love for mankind, and our treatment of them.... not on the basis of our professions of love toward God, nor for our ritualistic performances or church attendance.
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I'm getting a feel for what's on your mind this morning. :)
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#9
Feb 7, 2015
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#9
Stunnedbygrace said:
I'm getting a feel for what's on your mind this morning. :)
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To wit? I'm not even sure what's on my mind. It's probably what Van Jones said on CNN last night after the Secret Service incidence at the Trump rally.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#10
Nov 12, 2015
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#10
Willie-T said:
Even the "judgment" of the Sheep & Goats is done on the basis of our love for mankind, and our treatment of them.... not on the basis of our professions of love toward God, nor for our ritualistic performances or church attendance.
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But don't you think that it is only through the love God sheds in our hearts that we can manifest His selfless love to our neighbor? Otherwise, we mar it by our little hidden self interests?
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#11
Nov 12, 2015
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#11
Willie-T said:
To wit? I'm not even sure what's on my mind. It's probably what Van Jones said on CNN last night after the Secret Service incidence at the Trump rally.
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I don't read politics. What did the man say?
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#12
#12
I guess it depends how you think of self- love.
Do you hate / despise yourself?
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#14
Nov 12, 2015
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#14
Wait a minute...I remember Van Jones...from when my husband used to watch Glen Beck...isn't Van Jones the one who said something like...the end is what's necessary and the radical means are....okay to achieve the goal? I can't remember his exact wording...but I remember that he quoted a man named Mao...I did not agree with Jones and his words puzzled me.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#15
Nov 12, 2015
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#15
wwjd_kilden said:
I guess it depends how you think of self- love.
Do you hate / despise yourself?
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Yes, I do. I hate all my tendencies to selfishness and my tendencies to place myself first over others. And I hate my tendency toward resentment and murder when someone steps on my toes.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#16
Feb 7, 2015
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#16
Stunnedbygrace said:
Wait a minute...I remember Van Jones...from when my husband used to watch Glen Beck...isn't Van Jones the one who said something like...the end is what's necessary and the radical means are....okay to achieve the goal? I can't remember his exact wording...but I remember that he quoted a man named Mao...I did not agree with Jones and his words puzzled me.
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Oh, for the most part, I think very little of Van Jones. But last night, he had a rare moment of making sense.
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#17
#17
Stunnedbygrace said:
Yes, I do. I hate all my tendencies to selfishness and my tendencies to place myself first over others. And I hate my tendency toward resentment and murder when someone steps on my toes.
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What if your hate towards yourself ends up taking your focus away from God and his grace, and thus make you self- centred by focusing on yourself? (did that make any sense? I am loosing my typing skill methinks.)

Yes we should try to leave our evil behind and change to be better, but hating ourselves will not make us better Christians
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#18
Nov 12, 2015
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#18
Willie-T said:
Oh, for the most part, I think very little about Van Jones. But last night, he had a rare moment of making sense.
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Maybe he has changed and has a softer heart now. Or maybe it is not the same Van Jones you're speaking of. I will look for the video to see what he said that has got you into this good mood of despising falsity. :)
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#19
Nov 12, 2015
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#19
wwjd_kilden said:
What if your hate towards yourself ends up taking your focus away from God and his grace, and thus make you self- centred by focusing on yourself? (did that make any sense? I am loosing my typing skill methinks.)

Yes we should try to leave our evil behind and change to be better, but hating ourselves will not make us better Christians
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I agree that it is possible to fall into the ditch of despair when we see our awfulness. I fell into that ditch. But...it was wounded pride that got me there, because I wanted so desperately to be good and tried so hard but failed. I despise myself now but do not fall into despair over these things in me because I have seen that victory over my enemies comes from God, not my hard striving. I no longer despair when He shows me my poverty and lack but I do still despise myself and want Him to increase more and more. By the way, Ive read many of your posts but think this is the first time I remember speaking with you. :) Good morning!)
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#20
Feb 7, 2015
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#20
Stunnedbygrace said:
Maybe he has changed and has a softer heart now. Or maybe it is not the same Van Jones you're speaking of. I will look for the video to see what he said that has got you into this good mood of despising falsity. :)
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Well, talking with two lawyers who are staunch Clinton supporters and one very deluded Trump supporter who really just parroted news sound bytes from FOX, at my wife's Family Reunion yesterday may have had a lot to do with my benevolent mood this morning. We do seem to have a pretty out-of-touch and delusional voting population this year.
 
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