I would say God can not create true love or He wouldn't be putting His people through this world age. This proving ground that weeds the good from the bad. ONLY TRUE LOVE can well up from a free willed thinking entity that desides to love on his own. If God makes you love Him, it is a fake love. There again love must well up from within a free willed thinking person. He must want to love God on his own decision without be forced or made to love. You can not make anyone love and it be true love. Like the Zoons that God created to protect the throne. That's all they know to do and they do a mighty job but that is not true love.
Can God create true love within a person and it be true love?
- Thread starter Beresheet
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it says:
so without that He loved us, we would never have loved Him.
it goes on to say, without His love for us, we were enemies of Him, haters of God, loving darkness, made of darkness, unable to comprehend Him, unable to see Him, thinking all this was foolishness. that we were dead, altogether corrupt and filthy, altogether vain, altogether worthless, altogether fools, altogether spiteful, proud, arrogant and selfish. futile in our thinking, futile in our actions, futile in our feelings. dead.
in short, we were unable to love. unable even to comprehend love.
then He loved us.
and in doing so, revealed love to us, put love in us, so that we were able to return it to Him, able to love Him.
you say a person must be able to come up with love on their own in order for it to be real.
that a person must 'create' love in themselves.
aren't you trying to create without God?
but God is the Creator. we are nothing without God.
even if you think you are loving without any influence from God, who created your mind? who created your heart? who created your emotion? who created your love? who created you? who created love itself, and gave it to you?
we love because He first loved us.
and that is true. so without that He loved us, we would never have loved Him.
it goes on to say, without His love for us, we were enemies of Him, haters of God, loving darkness, made of darkness, unable to comprehend Him, unable to see Him, thinking all this was foolishness. that we were dead, altogether corrupt and filthy, altogether vain, altogether worthless, altogether fools, altogether spiteful, proud, arrogant and selfish. futile in our thinking, futile in our actions, futile in our feelings. dead.
in short, we were unable to love. unable even to comprehend love.
then He loved us.
and in doing so, revealed love to us, put love in us, so that we were able to return it to Him, able to love Him.
you say a person must be able to come up with love on their own in order for it to be real.
that a person must 'create' love in themselves.
aren't you trying to create without God?
but God is the Creator. we are nothing without God.
even if you think you are loving without any influence from God, who created your mind? who created your heart? who created your emotion? who created your love? who created you? who created love itself, and gave it to you?
" But the fruit of the Spirit is love."
Gal 5:22
"What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?"
1Cor 4:7
I think that Bible clearly teaches all good we have is from God. It is a gift.
But I see your point - why, in such case, is all this "training" of our lives needed. That would be a good forum thread.
Gal 5:22
"What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?"
1Cor 4:7
I think that Bible clearly teaches all good we have is from God. It is a gift.
But I see your point - why, in such case, is all this "training" of our lives needed. That would be a good forum thread.
I know that all good comes from God but God wouldn't be putting us through this world age if He could just create true love and it be the real deal. Which is a more true and pure love? An individual that has been created and made to love God, or a free willed thinking individual that chooses to love God on their own without being made or forced to love Him. Hope you can understand logic of true love. True love can not be mandated or forced and it be true love. True love can only well up within a free willed thinking individual, it can not be force or it is a fake love. God only want free willed thinking individual that desire to love Him because they desire or want to love Him, not because they were made to love Him. The difference between being made to love or just desiring to love cause that is what's really in their heart or being. Hope you can see that true love can not be created or forced on an individual and it be the true love that God so desires. God did create the Zoons, those powerful beings that stood beside the throne that their sole duty was to protect God and His throne. The Zoons did not have free will, all they knew was to love and protect. God wants all his children to love Him and tears flow when they don't but He will only accept those who desire to love Him cause they want to not because they are made to.
There is a difference from creating a being with the capacity to love and creating a being that has not choice to choose to.
If we choose to respond the Fathers drawing, we will then fulfill that capacity, it takes time, this "training" ground is a chance for all to make a choice in this life for life. like any child the capacity for love and empathy is learned from the example of the parents and later society itself, the influence of the parents determine the the extent at which society will influence the child.
As each give themselves to our beloved Savor (daily) we learn this love in more depth because we get to know the one who IS love.
If we choose to respond the Fathers drawing, we will then fulfill that capacity, it takes time, this "training" ground is a chance for all to make a choice in this life for life. like any child the capacity for love and empathy is learned from the example of the parents and later society itself, the influence of the parents determine the the extent at which society will influence the child.
As each give themselves to our beloved Savor (daily) we learn this love in more depth because we get to know the one who IS love.
The final decision for salvation must be on the person's part for it to be true love,and God's kingdom is true love.
Many are called,but few are chosen,which means God does the calling,and choosing on earth.
If a person's heart while in the world that they want reality truth,likes decency,and has a general love for people,although they will not be perfected in it,God will call them to follow Him,and if they continue in that calling,God will choose them.
That is why the Bible says,not many wise men after the flesh,not many noble,not many mighty,are called,and that is because of their attitude of liking to highly exalt themselves,and not too much of a concern for other people.
God gets the glory for us being saved,for when He does call us,and we come to the truth,it is because of Him.
No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them,and we can do nothing without Christ.
God will call a person,and if they continue in that calling bring them to the point of Christ,and the truth,but the final decision is up to them,for God's kingdom is true love.
Like that saying,you can lead a horse to water,but you cannot make him drink,something like that,for God will lead us to the truth,but He will not twist our arm to accept.
Many are called,but few are chosen,which means God does the calling,and choosing on earth.
If a person's heart while in the world that they want reality truth,likes decency,and has a general love for people,although they will not be perfected in it,God will call them to follow Him,and if they continue in that calling,God will choose them.
That is why the Bible says,not many wise men after the flesh,not many noble,not many mighty,are called,and that is because of their attitude of liking to highly exalt themselves,and not too much of a concern for other people.
God gets the glory for us being saved,for when He does call us,and we come to the truth,it is because of Him.
No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them,and we can do nothing without Christ.
God will call a person,and if they continue in that calling bring them to the point of Christ,and the truth,but the final decision is up to them,for God's kingdom is true love.
Like that saying,you can lead a horse to water,but you cannot make him drink,something like that,for God will lead us to the truth,but He will not twist our arm to accept.
Why? Is someone saves you from a terrible fate by grace, wouldn't you truly love them?
There is no reason why the choice should not be made in eternity. Why shouldn't the choice be made before the calling. You are simply interpreting according to your way of thinking.
so you think men are saved depending on their goodness? Paul will tell you otherwise.
So the foolish ones are unselfish? Not what I see.
Now you are changing your tune.
Agreed.
So you would not love God if He decided to save you irrespective of your choice.?
The horse does not freely chooses. It 'chooses' if it is thirsty, otherwise it turns away. God could easily make it thirsty.
What makes you so certain about God ways?
Consider:
'All that which the Father gives me will come to Me, and him that comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him Who sent Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day ---.' (John 6.37-39).
No man can come to Me except the Father Who sent Me draw him, and I will raise Him up at the Last Day (John 6.44).
According as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having foreordained us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace in which He has made us engraced in the Beloved' (Ephesians 1.4-6).
'For that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation, in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth, whereunto He called you through our Gospel to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (2 Thessalonians 2.13-14).
'Who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given us in Christ Jesus before time eternal' (2 Timothy 1.9).
'Chosen ones in accordance with the foreknowledge of God the Father, in (or by) sanctification of the Spirit, unto the obedience of Jesus Christ and the sprinkling of His blood.' (1 Peter 1.2).
'And those who dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.' (Revelation 17.8).
There is no reason why the choice should not be made in eternity. Why shouldn't the choice be made before the calling. You are simply interpreting according to your way of thinking.
so you think men are saved depending on their goodness? Paul will tell you otherwise.
So the foolish ones are unselfish? Not what I see.
Now you are changing your tune.
Agreed.
So you would not love God if He decided to save you irrespective of your choice.?
The horse does not freely chooses. It 'chooses' if it is thirsty, otherwise it turns away. God could easily make it thirsty.
What makes you so certain about God ways?
Consider:
'All that which the Father gives me will come to Me, and him that comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him Who sent Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day ---.' (John 6.37-39).
No man can come to Me except the Father Who sent Me draw him, and I will raise Him up at the Last Day (John 6.44).
According as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having foreordained us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace in which He has made us engraced in the Beloved' (Ephesians 1.4-6).
'For that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation, in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth, whereunto He called you through our Gospel to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (2 Thessalonians 2.13-14).
'Who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given us in Christ Jesus before time eternal' (2 Timothy 1.9).
'Chosen ones in accordance with the foreknowledge of God the Father, in (or by) sanctification of the Spirit, unto the obedience of Jesus Christ and the sprinkling of His blood.' (1 Peter 1.2).
'And those who dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.' (Revelation 17.8).
Beresheet,= in Hebrew, 'In the beginning'...
your logic if flawed, because 'God's created beings' do have a 'choice'..,this is clear from Lucifer's example...
ISA.14 and EZ:28.
we understand 'zoon' means a live beast in the 'greek language', but our point is, that all of the other
created being of God do have a 'choice', they can remain 'faithful' or 'unfaithful'...
your spirit is very odd and your motives are questionable...
your logic if flawed, because 'God's created beings' do have a 'choice'..,this is clear from Lucifer's example...
ISA.14 and EZ:28.
we understand 'zoon' means a live beast in the 'greek language', but our point is, that all of the other
created being of God do have a 'choice', they can remain 'faithful' or 'unfaithful'...
your spirit is very odd and your motives are questionable...
No motive in what I've tried to explain about true love, other than trying help others understand what constitutes true love. Just trying to give one a glimpse of what true love really is and how true loves comes about. It can't be created, it can't be forced, it can't be mandated, cause if it is, it's a fake love. God doesn't want anything fake I can assure you. As magnificent and all powerful as our Father is, even He realized that true love can only well up from Within a free willed thinking person that desires to love Him cause they want to. That's the kind of love God wants.
Human beings do much better when they follow God's word. Their quality of life is better. To even God's food laws for man. He tells us what to eat and what not to eat. Then He follows it up a statement like this. If you eat liike I tell you, you won't be sick like the heathen.
Human beings do much better when they follow God's word. Their quality of life is better. To even God's food laws for man. He tells us what to eat and what not to eat. Then He follows it up a statement like this. If you eat liike I tell you, you won't be sick like the heathen.
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