Who defines salvation - sanctification - perfection - acceptance - sin

[PeterJens]

Our goal in Christ is to be like Him.

This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.
1 John 4:17

We are called to do things that do not come naturally to this world, because this world
is driven by passion and self benefit.

Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:24

It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.
Titus 2:12

At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.
Titus 3:3

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
Gal 5:22-26

Now some seem to find it hard to see Jesus is saying something simple.
The ways of the world, sin, leads to death and judgement.
The ways of God lead to life and eternity.

So we walk into forgiveness and cleansing, so we can see aright and walk
aright in righteousness, purity and holiness, cleansed by the God and filled
with the Holy Spirit.

Now which part is salvation and which part sanctification? To me these
are labels, but if one realises by not doing being sanctified you miss Christ, one
is saying salvation is dependent upon sanctification happening.

Now as the goal is to be like Christ, and to walk the path that gets you there
abandoning the path is giving up on the goal and on Christ and going back to
the world.

But this appears too hard for many, because they want certainty in a relationship
which for them is so full of guilt they find it impossible to feel secure in Christ.

Unless God says they are safe no matter what they do, they go into a worry spiral
of how can we guarantee faithfulness to us and avoid hurt. But this is letting worry
dominate above love and faith, and is simple unbelief.

Christ died on the cross. The Lord on High became a man, and submitted to sinful
corrupt evil men, and let them kill Him. If that is not enough for a believer, they have
not yet met God, have not yet let love into their hearts.

 

[PeterJens]

I was thinking we often want to label things to get an understanding of how things
hang together.

It then struck me God owns these labels and steps, because it is He who said this
is the path to find and walk with Him.

We are sheep with a shepherd. We enter by the gate and follow along.
Amen and praise the Lord

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Our goal in Christ is to be like Him.

At first the person realizes they have been wrong and repent and get saved.

This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment:In this world we are like JESUS.
1 John 4:17

After salvation then there Is progressive sanctification.
Romans 12:1-2
King James version(KJV)

1.)I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2.)And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[PeterJens]

At first the person realizes they have been wrong and repent and get saved.

After salvation then there Is progressive sanctification.
Romans 12:1-2
King James version(KJV)

1.)I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2.)And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I agree with this. Jesus is the gate, the beginning of the journey. The whole point of the journey
is to dwell with Him for all eternity.

You cannot start this walk until you are cleansed and purified, saved.

Now the confusion is that salvation is arriving, rather it is the beginning.
If you reject the walk, then the salvation was to no purpose, because salvation
was to enable the walk to begin.

If you have given up the walk, or refuse to walk, how can one claim you knew
anything really to begin with

 

[Jesusisking]

This is so true, to be saved is the start of a life long journey or as Paul put it a "race". We, after salvation move out as if from the starting blocks and start to run, or follow our Lords voice. When we are saved we meet with Jesus and it is such a prize. I can understand why Jesus told of the pearl of great price and the treasure buried in a field, to truly see and start to know Jesus is the greatest treasure of all, Paul puts it brilliantly and says this knowing Jesus "surpasses" everything we know.

I can say it is like a starting gun for the race we run, Jesus rings in our ears as we move forward and this shepherds voice leads us to wonderful pastures and living waters as long as we stay focused on Him and do not get distracted.

Good post brother, just what I needed this afternoon, thank you.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Now the confusion is that salvation is arriving, rather it is the beginning.
If you reject the walk, then the salvation was to no purpose, because salvation
was to enable the walk to begin.

Yes,I understand what you are saying,but would you agree that salvation Is by Grace through FAITH,and GOD looks at the heart,man looks at the outward appearances.

So then the person Is justified In the site of GOD,their spirits made perfect but would you agree that their bodies have not yet been glorified and If they remain alive on this earth by the mercies of GOD they should present their bodies a living sacrifice.

But I do agree that If they have a desire to continue practicing sin the same as before then they aren't saved.


For we are GOD's workmanship created In CHRIST JESUS unto good works that was before ordained that we should walk In them.

 

[Jesusisking]

This thread could turn into a free for all over this ""Hyper Grace " and preachers of the doctrine on CC
stuff that there is a warning about. I do not think anyone including the op would argue that we are not saved by grace through faith, I know it.

Your comment seed_time_harvest is right we are justified before God and I would take it further and say we are clothed with the righteousness of Christ and therefore sanctified with Him.

I would like to know how you understand that our spirits are made perfect? Hebrews says;

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, [SUP]23 [/SUP]to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, [SUP]24 [/SUP]to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

But this perfection is not fulfilled yet, otherwise Paul would not go on to say;

[SUP]25 [/SUP]See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? [SUP]26 [/SUP]At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]27 [/SUP]The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

Why would Paul talk this way if our salvation was made sure and our spirits made perfect, so we could not loose what we have gained. Paul talks a lot about these things, he concentrates on the positives and does not dwell on the negatives, but he does not deny them.

The Holy Spirit is perfect and Jesus was made perfect through his obedience unto death Hebrews 5 v 7 to 10. I am reticent to speak this, but I have a problem with those who sin were never saved. Jesus through scripture talks about "the love of many growing cold", therefore it must have been hot.

There is just to much throughout scripture that warns us to hold tight what we are given, Paul tells the Churches he started for Jesus to be careful and not to entertain false doctrines that could lead some astray.

I know this is a contentious subject but the word of God must out and be accepted in it's entirety. If we hold on Jesus will never let us go. Like Paul I to am convinced that neither hight or depth or angels or things to come or anything can separate us from Jesus and God and the relationship we have with Him. But the bible does say "The love of many will grow cold", Jesus warns of turning away after putting ones hands on the plough and those who do not being fit for the kingdom of God.

Why would these be there if we were guaranteed to be with Jesus no matter what? It is the 'no matter what' that is not in scripture.

I realise that this could get me banned, if so then ok I will be. I already rejoice in the adversity I have encountered here on CC already, through a couple of members, a bit more will not hurt. Praise God.

And holding on and obeying is not salvation through works.

 

[Hizikyah]

Jer 9:24 but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am יהוה, doing kindness, right-ruling, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight,” declares יהוה.

 

[FreeNChrist]

"But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”" 1 Cor. 1:30-31

 

[seed_time_harvest]

This thread could turn into a free for all over this ""Hyper Grace " and preachers of the doctrine on CC
stuff that there is a warning about. I do not think anyone including the op would argue that we are not saved by grace through faith, I know it.

Your comment seed_time_harvest is right we are justified before God and I would take it further and say we are clothed with the righteousness of Christ and therefore sanctified with Him.

I would like to know how you understand that our spirits are made perfect? Hebrews says;


But this perfection is not fulfilled yet, otherwise Paul would not go on to say;

Why would Paul talk this way if our salvation was made sure and our spirits made perfect, so we could not loose what we have gained. Paul talks a lot about these things, he concentrates on the positives and does not dwell on the negatives, but he does not deny them.

The Holy Spirit is perfect and Jesus was made perfect through his obedience unto death Hebrews 5 v 7 to 10. I am reticent to speak this, but I have a problem with those who sin were never saved. Jesus through scripture talks about "the love of many growing cold", therefore it must have been hot.

There is just to much throughout scripture that warns us to hold tight what we are given, Paul tells the Churches he started for Jesus to be careful and not to entertain false doctrines that could lead some astray.

I know this is a contentious subject but the word of God must out and be accepted in it's entirety. If we hold on Jesus will never let us go. Like Paul I to am convinced that neither hight or depth or angels or things to come or anything can separate us from Jesus and God and the relationship we have with Him. But the bible does say "The love of many will grow cold", Jesus warns of turning away after putting ones hands on the plough and those who do not being fit for the kingdom of God.

Why would these be there if we were guaranteed to be with Jesus no matter what? It is the 'no matter what' that is not in scripture.

I realise that this could get me banned, if so then ok I will be. I already rejoice in the adversity I have encountered here on CC already, through a couple of members, a bit more will not hurt. Praise God.

And holding on and obeying is not salvation through works.

JESUS Is the WORD of GOD and HE was the lamb of GOD that took away the sins of the world.

The devil had the power that GOD gave to Adam and GOD being a righteous GOD,does everything righteously,so then although GOD Is sovereign and could have taken back the power of dominion of earth from the devil and give It back to Adam,He came to earth to take back the dominion of earth from the devil the righteous way.

Fully GOD,fully man. GOD through suffering as a man was made perfect through obedience,this Is just saying that HE was sinless as a man,the only man that could fulfill GOD's perfect standard of righteousness(the law).

Any other man can not be made perfect without Grace through Faith because of the weakness of their flesh,but JESUS did not have the seed of Adam but the seed of GOD the HOLY SPIRIT.

Remember GOD Is a Spirit and must be worshiped,our spirit to HIS SPIRIT and HIS SPIRIT to our SPIRIT In TRUTH.

We now must be perfect the way GOD Is and we have access to this Grace through FAITH.

 

[Jesusisking]

JESUS Is the WORD of GOD and HE was the lamb of GOD that took away the sins of the world.

The devil had the power that GOD gave to Adam and GOD being a righteous GOD,does everything righteously,so then although GOD Is sovereign and could have taken back the power of dominion of earth from the devil and give It back to Adam,He came to earth to take back the dominion of earth from the devil the righteous way.

Fully GOD,fully man. GOD through suffering as a man was made perfect through obedience,this Is just saying that HE was sinless as a man,the only man that could fulfill GOD's perfect standard of righteousness(the law).

Any other man can not be made perfect without Grace through Faith because of the weakness of their flesh,but JESUS did not have the seed of Adam but the seed of GOD the HOLY SPIRIT.

Remember GOD Is a Spirit and must be worshiped,our spirit to HIS SPIRIT and HIS SPIRIT to our SPIRIT In TRUTH.

We now must be perfect the way GOD Is and we have access to this Grace through FAITH.

I like that, thank you.

 

[PeterJens]

Dominion over the earth? Sounds like added theology here.

Jesus asked us to be perfect in loving our enemies, because we cannot be perfect
in everything like God because we are not God.

Jesus calls us to walk in obedience. We can do this because he has put love in our
hearts, healed the hurts, forgiven our sins, and helped us purify our thoughts and
what we dwell on.

 

[Grandpa]

Jer 9:24 but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am יהוה, doing kindness, right-ruling, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight,” declares יהוה.

If nin' = The Lord Jesus Christ this is a very good post!

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Dominion over the earth? Sounds like added theology here.

Jesus asked us to be perfect in loving our enemies, because we cannot be perfect
in everything like God because we are not God.

Jesus calls us to walk in obedience. We can do this because he has put love in our
hearts, healed the hurts, forgiven our sins, and helped us purify our thoughts and
what we dwell on.

Once the person has been born of the Spirit of GOD they have become a member of the body of CHRIST.
1st Corinthians 12:17
King James version(KJV)

17.)Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
+++
Hebrews 13:20-21
King James version(KJV)

20.)Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21.)Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.