the Christ, the Son of God, Whos God is His Father

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Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#1
John 20:31 "But these are written that YOU MAY BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD, and that by believing you may have life in HIS name."
John 3:17-18”For God did not send HIS SON into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of GODS ONE AND ONLY SON.”


Romans 1:2-4 "the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding HIS SON, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David, and who THROUGH THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS was declared THE SON OF GOD with power by his resurrection from the dead: JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD."


john 11:4 "When he heard this, JESUS SAID, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that GOD'S SON may be glorified through it."


JOHN 11:41-42 "So they took away the stone. Then JESUS LOOKED UP AND SAID , “Father, I thank YOU that YOU HAVE HEARD ME. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may BELIEVE THAT YOU SENT ME."


john 11:27 "“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the CHRIST, the SON OF GOD, who is to come into the world.”


John 12:23 "Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the SON OF MAN to be glorified. "


john 12:26 "Whoever serves me must follow me; and WHERE I AM, MY SERVANT WILL ALSO BE. MY FATHER WILL HONOR THE ONE WHO SERVES ME."


john 12:49-50 “ For I did not speak ON MY OWN, but THE FATHER WHO SENT ME COMMANDED ME to say all that I have spoken. I know that HIS COMMAND leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is JUST WHAT THE FATHER TOLD ME TO SAY.”


does it seem like Jesus is the Father? or does He continually refer to His Father as God?


john 20:17 “Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to MY BROTHERS and tell them, 'I am ascending to MY FATHER and YOUR FATHER, to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD .'’


What of Jesus prayer?


john 17:1-5 “After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify YOUR SON, that YOUR SON MAY GLORIFY YOU . For YOU GRANTED HIM AUTHORITY OVER ALL PEOPLE that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they know YOU THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU HAVE SENT ( John 3:16-18) I have brought YOU GLORY on earth by finishing the work YOU GAVE ME TO DO. And now, Father, GLORIFY ME in YOUR PRESENCE withTHE GLORY I HAD WITH YOU before the world began.”


I understand this subject is touchy to some and confusing to others, with the trinity doctrine so vaugue and the many differing views of things, My point is that scripture is plain, it doesnt require anything But the spirit, prayer and belief. were not supposed to try to figure it out in our minds or reason Just acceopt whats written. the reason we have to stick to the scriptures ?


“ if you stand in front of a mirror and say His name 3 times, Jesus will give you eternal Life” in other words, without knowing and believing Gods word of things, anything can be said “ God said this” but if we have the scripture, a person can easily say “ No! thats false it is not in scripture anywhere” thats How we learn Gods word, By believing it, prayerfully considering it, desiring to Know what He is truly saying, what His true words are. There is no unity until we accept the only One authorized to remove the old, and give the new. Jesus, the Christ and Son of God. more scripture regarding God the Father, and His Son who is Our only image of God, His Only begotten Son.


john 17:6-8 “I have REVEALED YOU to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; YOU GAVE THEM TO ME and they have OBEYED YOUR WORD. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I GAVE THEM THE WORDS YOU GAVE ME AND THEY ACCEPTED THEM. They knew with certainty that I CAME FROM YOU, and they believed that YOU SENT ME.”


john 17 :14-17 “ I have given them YOUR WORD and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the EVIL ONE. ( yes satan is on the earth) They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; YOUR WORD IS TRUTH.” (consider v 6-8)


john 17:22-26 “I have GIVEN THEM THE GLORY that YOU GAVE ME, that they may be one AS WE ARE ONE— 23I IN THEM AND YOU IN ME—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as YOU HAVE LOVED ME.
24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the GLORY YOU HAVE GIVEN ME before the creation of the world. 25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I KNOW YOU, and they know that YOU HAVE SENT ME. 26I HAVE MADE YOU KNOWN TO THEM, and will continue to make you known in order that the LOVE YOU HAVE FOR ME may be IN THEM and that I myself may be IN THEM.”


notice whats being said here about us being one with Jesus, and He is one with God. then consider Jesus telling phillip “ I and the Father are One , you have now seen the Father” Jesus is NOT claiming to Be the Father, But He is saying to see Me, is to see God. He is again the exact representation of His Father, who is spirit and cannot be seen or known........But if we Know His Only Son who is exactly Like Him, and is One with Him, then we Have a Lord who we are one with. if we become one with Jesus, He is already One with God. this is what Jesus is saying in other places as well


john 15:9-11 ““As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you KEEP MY COMMANDS, you will remain in my love, JUST AS I HAVE KEPT MY FATHERS COMMANDS and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete”


john 14:1 ““Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in Goda ; believe ALSO IN ME”


Jesus never made the claim to be God, His clear claim and the truth is that He is the Promised Christ, the Only begotten Son of God. when He says “ before abraham was , I am” He is making the clear statement that He was before abraham and is OF God. What child DOESNT bear His Fathers name??? still the Son is of the Father, But He is not the Father, Jesus also Has a God, it Just happens to Be His Father and the reason we all talk of “ inheritance through Jesus” He is the Son, all of the inheritance of God belongs to Gods Son, He is so full of Love for us that He offers to share with us the inheritance of eternal Life. those who accept Him as the Christ and Son of God, having all authority and the Only Lord and Savior there is.


John 10:17-18 “The REASON MY FATHER LOVES ME is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have AUTHORITY to lay it down and AUTHORITY to take it up again. THIS COMMAND I RECEIVED from my Father.”

would God need to give Himself a command to follow? Or is Jesus saying Just what He means?

1 john 5:1-5 "Everyone who believes that JESUS IS THE CHRIST is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who BELIEVES THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD."


there are 2 times as many saying the same things. Believe in Jesus the Christ, and the Son of the Living God. that is the Christian belief that leads to rebeirth 1 john 5:1, and victory over the world 1 john 5:5. Because it is the truth of Gods Word. to be very clear, Jesus divinity is that of Gods eternal Son, He is no less divine, yet there is a day when He will also become subject to God, as He already was on earth. Jesus Has the Same God that you and I have, and thanks to Him, the SAME FATHER Hallelujah !

Jesus is the promised Christ, foretold from ages past Learn the prophets of old to know Jesus role, and Learn His word to Know God the Father.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,036
1,026
113
New Zealand
#2
Well this has been discussed over and over again in this forum.

You have a lot of scriptures there..

Jesus DID claim to be God though.

Jesus gives eternal life. How can a being who is NOT God do that?

Jesus forgives sin.. in the 3rd person.. eg.. I hit you... then Jesus comes along and says I forgive you in the 3rd person. Only God can do that!

In Revelation.. it is the Spirit speaking to the churches.. but this is also the Revelation of Jesus Christ. And Jesus is referred to as the Alpha, Omega, beginning and End.

If that isn't a reference to Jesus being God.. I don't know what is.

As said before--

Jesus is God, the Father is God, the Holy Spirit is God.. co-eternal.. co-equal.

One God.. one being.. in three essences/substances/persons.

If any of these entities is a 'lesser God' .. then you end up with Polytheism!

Anyway.. this is probably going to go round in circles again for like 8 pages of replies..
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#3
John 20:31 "But these are written that YOU MAY BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD, and that by believing you may have life in HIS name."
John 3:17-18”For God did not send HIS SON into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of GODS ONE AND ONLY SON.”


Romans 1:2-4 "the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding HIS SON, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David, and who THROUGH THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS was declared THE SON OF GOD with power by his resurrection from the dead: JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD."


john 11:4 "When he heard this, JESUS SAID, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that GOD'S SON may be glorified through it."


JOHN 11:41-42 "So they took away the stone. Then JESUS LOOKED UP AND SAID , “Father, I thank YOU that YOU HAVE HEARD ME. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may BELIEVE THAT YOU SENT ME."


john 11:27 "“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the CHRIST, the SON OF GOD, who is to come into the world.”


John 12:23 "Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the SON OF MAN to be glorified. "


john 12:26 "Whoever serves me must follow me; and WHERE I AM, MY SERVANT WILL ALSO BE. MY FATHER WILL HONOR THE ONE WHO SERVES ME."


john 12:49-50 “ For I did not speak ON MY OWN, but THE FATHER WHO SENT ME COMMANDED ME to say all that I have spoken. I know that HIS COMMAND leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is JUST WHAT THE FATHER TOLD ME TO SAY.”


does it seem like Jesus is the Father? or does He continually refer to His Father as God?


john 20:17 “Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to MY BROTHERS and tell them, 'I am ascending to MY FATHER and YOUR FATHER, to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD .'’


What of Jesus prayer?


john 17:1-5 “After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify YOUR SON, that YOUR SON MAY GLORIFY YOU . For YOU GRANTED HIM AUTHORITY OVER ALL PEOPLE that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they know YOU THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU HAVE SENT ( John 3:16-18) I have brought YOU GLORY on earth by finishing the work YOU GAVE ME TO DO. And now, Father, GLORIFY ME in YOUR PRESENCE withTHE GLORY I HAD WITH YOU before the world began.”


I understand this subject is touchy to some and confusing to others, with the trinity doctrine so vaugue and the many differing views of things, My point is that scripture is plain, it doesnt require anything But the spirit, prayer and belief. were not supposed to try to figure it out in our minds or reason Just acceopt whats written. the reason we have to stick to the scriptures ?


“ if you stand in front of a mirror and say His name 3 times, Jesus will give you eternal Life” in other words, without knowing and believing Gods word of things, anything can be said “ God said this” but if we have the scripture, a person can easily say “ No! thats false it is not in scripture anywhere” thats How we learn Gods word, By believing it, prayerfully considering it, desiring to Know what He is truly saying, what His true words are. There is no unity until we accept the only One authorized to remove the old, and give the new. Jesus, the Christ and Son of God. more scripture regarding God the Father, and His Son who is Our only image of God, His Only begotten Son.


john 17:6-8 “I have REVEALED YOU to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; YOU GAVE THEM TO ME and they have OBEYED YOUR WORD. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I GAVE THEM THE WORDS YOU GAVE ME AND THEY ACCEPTED THEM. They knew with certainty that I CAME FROM YOU, and they believed that YOU SENT ME.”


john 17 :14-17 “ I have given them YOUR WORD and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the EVIL ONE. ( yes satan is on the earth) They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; YOUR WORD IS TRUTH.” (consider v 6-8)


john 17:22-26 “I have GIVEN THEM THE GLORY that YOU GAVE ME, that they may be one AS WE ARE ONE— 23I IN THEM AND YOU IN ME—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as YOU HAVE LOVED ME.
24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the GLORY YOU HAVE GIVEN ME before the creation of the world. 25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I KNOW YOU, and they know that YOU HAVE SENT ME. 26I HAVE MADE YOU KNOWN TO THEM, and will continue to make you known in order that the LOVE YOU HAVE FOR ME may be IN THEM and that I myself may be IN THEM.”


notice whats being said here about us being one with Jesus, and He is one with God. then consider Jesus telling phillip “ I and the Father are One , you have now seen the Father” Jesus is NOT claiming to Be the Father, But He is saying to see Me, is to see God. He is again the exact representation of His Father, who is spirit and cannot be seen or known........But if we Know His Only Son who is exactly Like Him, and is One with Him, then we Have a Lord who we are one with. if we become one with Jesus, He is already One with God. this is what Jesus is saying in other places as well


john 15:9-11 ““As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you KEEP MY COMMANDS, you will remain in my love, JUST AS I HAVE KEPT MY FATHERS COMMANDS and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete”


john 14:1 ““Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in Goda ; believe ALSO IN ME”


Jesus never made the claim to be God, His clear claim and the truth is that He is the Promised Christ, the Only begotten Son of God. when He says “ before abraham was , I am” He is making the clear statement that He was before abraham and is OF God. What child DOESNT bear His Fathers name??? still the Son is of the Father, But He is not the Father, Jesus also Has a God, it Just happens to Be His Father and the reason we all talk of “ inheritance through Jesus” He is the Son, all of the inheritance of God belongs to Gods Son, He is so full of Love for us that He offers to share with us the inheritance of eternal Life. those who accept Him as the Christ and Son of God, having all authority and the Only Lord and Savior there is.


John 10:17-18 “The REASON MY FATHER LOVES ME is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have AUTHORITY to lay it down and AUTHORITY to take it up again. THIS COMMAND I RECEIVED from my Father.”

would God need to give Himself a command to follow? Or is Jesus saying Just what He means?

1 john 5:1-5 "Everyone who believes that JESUS IS THE CHRIST is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who BELIEVES THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD."


there are 2 times as many saying the same things. Believe in Jesus the Christ, and the Son of the Living God. that is the Christian belief that leads to rebeirth 1 john 5:1, and victory over the world 1 john 5:5. Because it is the truth of Gods Word. to be very clear, Jesus divinity is that of Gods eternal Son, He is no less divine, yet there is a day when He will also become subject to God, as He already was on earth. Jesus Has the Same God that you and I have, and thanks to Him, the SAME FATHER Hallelujah !

Jesus is the promised Christ, foretold from ages past Learn the prophets of old to know Jesus role, and Learn His word to Know God the Father.
I like the first chapter of the gospel of John.

Everything explained there.
 
Last edited:

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
26,035
113
#4
John 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God.


2
The same was in the beginning with God.


3
All things were made by him; and without
him was not any thing made that was made.


4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


5
And the light shineth in darkness; and
the darkness comprehended it not.


6
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.


7
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of
the Light, that all men through him might believe.


8
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.


9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.


10
He was in the world, and the world was
made by him, and the world knew him not
.


11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.


12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will
of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten
of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


15
John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.


16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.


17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

^^ According to this, Jason, you are of the darkness of the world.

Col. 2:9 "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#5
"No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him."

J 1:18, NASB (the most faithful translation to the Greek original I have found)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
26,035
113
#6
Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”

Revelation 1:17-18
; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6- (God is the Redeemer)

2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by Himself alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM [He], you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, I and My Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!

Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5-6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

Colossians 2:9 - For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8-9 - But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

1 Timothy 6:14-16 - “our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.”
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
26,035
113
#7
[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the Rock of our salvation. God is the only Rock of our salvation.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Psalm 78:35[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]And they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their Redeemer.

Genesis 49:24
But his bow remained firm, And his arms were agile, From the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob (From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Deuteronomy 32:15
[FONT=&quot]"But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked-- You are grown fat, thick, and sleek-- Then he forsook God who made him, And scorned the Rock of his salvation.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2 Samuel 23:3
[FONT=&quot]"The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me, 'He who rules over men righteously, Who rules in the fear of God,
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 42:9
[FONT=&quot]I will say to God my rock, "Why have You forgotten me? Why do I go mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?"
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 30:29
[FONT=&quot]You will have songs as in the night when you keep the festival, And gladness of heart as when one marches to the sound of the flute, To go to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Habakkuk 1:12
[FONT=&quot]Are You not from everlasting, O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die You, O LORD, have appointed them to judge; And You, O Rock, have established them to correct.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2 Samuel 22:32
[FONT=&quot]"For who is God, besides the LORD? And who is a rock, besides our God?
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 18:31
[FONT=&quot]For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God,
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1 Samuel 2:2
[FONT=&quot]"There is no one holy like the LORD, Indeed, there is no one besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 44:8[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]'Do not tremble and do not be afraid; Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are My witnesses Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.'"
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Deuteronomy 32:31
[FONT=&quot]"Indeed their rock is not like our Rock, Even our enemies themselves judge this.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Deuteronomy 32:37
[FONT=&quot]"And He will say, 'Where are their gods, The rock in which they sought refuge?
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 144:1
[FONT=&quot]Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle;
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Deuteronomy 32:4
[FONT=&quot]"The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 92:15
[FONT=&quot]To declare that the LORD is upright; He is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 62:7
[FONT=&quot]On God my salvation and my glory rest; The rock of my strength, my refuge is in God.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 28:1
[FONT=&quot]To You, O LORD, I call; My rock, do not be deaf to me, For if You are silent to me, I will become like those who go down to the pit.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 31:1-3
[FONT=&quot]In You, O LORD, I have taken refuge; Let me never be ashamed; In Your righteousness deliver me. Incline Your ear to me, rescue me quickly; Be to me a rock of strength, A stronghold to save me. For You are my rock and my fortress; For Your name's sake You will lead me and guide me.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 61:2
[FONT=&quot]From the end of the earth I call to You when my heart is faint; Lead me to the rock that is higher than I.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 71:3
[FONT=&quot]Be to me a rock of habitation to which I may continually come; You have given commandment to save me, For You are my rock and my fortress.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 26:4
[FONT=&quot]"Trust in the LORD forever, For in GOD the LORD, we have an everlasting Rock.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 94:22
[FONT=&quot]But the LORD has been my stronghold, And my God the rock of my refuge.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2 Samuel 22:3
[FONT=&quot]My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge; My savior, You save me from violence.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 18:2
[FONT=&quot]The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 95:1
[FONT=&quot]O come, let us sing for joy to the LORD, Let us shout joyfully to the rock of our salvation.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2 Samuel 22:47
[FONT=&quot]"The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be God, the rock of my salvation,
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 18:46
[FONT=&quot]The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be the God of my salvation,
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

To be Continued :)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
26,035
113
#8
[FONT=&quot]Psalm 19:14[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in Your sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 62:2
[FONT=&quot]He only is my rock and my salvation, My stronghold; I shall not be greatly shaken.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 89:26
[FONT=&quot]"He will cry to Me, 'You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.'
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 17:10
[FONT=&quot]For you have forgotten the God of your salvation And have not remembered the rock of your refuge. Therefore you plant delightful plants And set them with vine slips of a strange god.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 8:14
[FONT=&quot]"Then He shall become a sanctuary; But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over, And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 28:16[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone, A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 118:22[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 21:42[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES'?
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 12:10[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]"Have you not even read this Scripture: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke 20:17[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]But Jesus looked at them and said, "What then is this that is written: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone'?
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Acts 4:11[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]"He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1 Peter 2:6-7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 21:44[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]"And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke 20:18[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]"Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Romans 9:32-33[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, just as it is written, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1 Peter 2:4-8[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
26,035
113
#9
The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (
John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (
John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (
Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (
1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
I hope that helps :) [FONT=&quot]https://gotquestions.org/is-Jesus-God.html[/FONT]
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
26,035
113
#10
Question: "Is Jesus God in the flesh? Why is it
important that Jesus is God in the flesh?"

Answer:
Since Jesus’ conception by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the
virgin Mary (Luke 1:26-38), the real identity of Jesus Christ has always been questioned by skeptics. It began with Mary's fiancé, Joseph, who was afraid to marry her when she revealed that she was pregnant (Matthew 1:18-24). He took her as his wife only after the angel confirmed to him that the child she carried was the Son of God.

Hundreds of years before the birth of Christ, the prophet Isaiah foretold the coming of God's Son: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" (
Isaiah 9:6). When the angel spoke to Joseph and announced the impending birth of Jesus, he alluded to Isaiah’s prophecy: "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call himImmanuel (which means ‘God with us’)" (Matthew 1:23). This did not mean they were to name the baby Immanuel; it meant that "God with us" was the baby’s identity. Jesus was God coming in the flesh to dwell with man.

Jesus Himself understood the speculation about His identity. He asked His disciples, "Who do people say that I am?" (
Matthew 16:13; Mark 8:27). The answers varied, as they do today. Then Jesus asked a more pressing question: "Who do you say that I am?" (Matthew 16:15). Peter gave the right answer: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matthew 16:16). Jesus affirmed the truth of Peter’s answer and promised that, upon that truth, He would build His church (Matthew 16:18).

The true nature and identity of Jesus Christ has eternal significance. Every person must answer the question Jesus asked His disciples: "Who do you say that I am?"

He gave us the correct answer in many ways. In
John 14:9-10, Jesus said, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

The Bible is clear about the divine nature of the Lord Jesus Christ (see
John 1:1-14).Philippians 2:6-7 says that, although Jesus was "in very nature God, He did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness." Colossians 2:9 says, “In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

Jesus is fully God and fully man, and the fact of His
incarnation is of utmost importance. He lived a human life but did not possess a sin nature as we do. He was tempted but never sinned (Hebrews 2:14-18; 4:15). Sin entered the world through Adam, and Adam’s sinful nature has been transferred to every baby born into the world (Romans 5:12)—except for Jesus. Because Jesus did not have a human father, He did not inherit a sin nature. He possessed the divine nature from His Heavenly Father.

Jesus had to meet all the requirements of a holy God before He could be an acceptable sacrifice for our sin (
John 8:29; Hebrews 9:14). He had to fulfill over three hundred prophecies about the Messiah that God, through the prophets, had foretold (Matthew 4:13-14; Luke 22:37;Isaiah 53; Micah 5:2).

Since the fall of man (
Genesis 3:21-23), the only way to be made right with God has been the blood of an innocent sacrifice (Leviticus 9:2; Numbers 28:19; Deuteronomy 15:21;Hebrews 9:22). Jesus was the final, perfect sacrifice that satisfied forever God's wrath against sin (Hebrews 10:14). His divine nature made Him fit for the work of Redeemer; His human body allowed Him to shed the blood necessary to redeem. No human being with a sin nature could pay such a debt. No one else could meet the requirements to become the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world (Matthew 26:28; 1 John 2:2). If Jesus were merely a good man as some claim, then He had a sin nature and was not perfect. In that case, His death and resurrection would have no power to save anyone.

Because Jesus was God in the flesh, He alone could pay the debt we owed to God. His victory over death and the grave won the victory for everyone who puts their trust in Him (
John 1:12; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, 17).
[FONT=&quot]https://gotquestions.org/God-in-the-flesh.html[/FONT]
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
26,035
113
#11
Question: "If Jesus was God, how could He pray to God?
Was Jesus praying to Himself?"

Answer:
To understand Jesus as God on earth praying to His Father in heaven, we need to realize that the eternal Father and the eternal Son had an eternal relationship before Jesus took upon Himself the form of a man. Please read
John 5:19-27, particularly verse 23 where Jesus teaches that the Father sent the Son (also see John 15:10). Jesus did not become the Son of God when He was born in Bethlehem. He has always been the Son of God from eternity past, still is the Son of God, and always will be.

Isaiah 9:6 tells us that the Son was given and the Child was born. Jesus was always part of the tri-unity, along with the Holy Spirit. The tri-unity always existed, the Father God, the Son God, and the Spirit God, not three gods, but one God existing as three persons. Jesus taught that He and His Father are one (John 10:30), meaning that He and His Father are of the same substance and the same essence. The Father, Son and Spirit are three co-equal persons existing as God. These three had, and continue to have, an eternal relationship.

When Jesus, the eternal Son of God, took upon Himself sinless humanity He also took on the form of a servant, giving up His heavenly glory (
Philippians 2:5-11). As the God-man, He had to learn obedience (Hebrews 5:8) to His Father as He was tempted by Satan, accused falsely by men, rejected by His people, and eventually crucified. His praying to His heavenly Father was to ask for power (John 11:41-42) and wisdom (Mark 1:35,6:46). His praying showed His dependence upon His Father in His humanity to carry out His Father's plan of redemption, as evidenced in Christ's high priestly prayer in John 17. His praying demonstrated that He ultimately submitted to His Father's will, which was to go to the cross and pay the penalty (death) for our breaking God's law (Matthew 26:31-46). Of course, He rose bodily from the grave, winning forgiveness and eternal life for those who repent of sin and believe in Him as the Savior.

There is no problem with God the Son praying or talking to God the Father. As mentioned, they had an eternal relationship before Christ became a man. This relationship is depicted in the Gospels so we can see how the Son of God in His humanity carried out His Father's will, and in doing so, purchased redemption for His children (
John 6:38). Christ’s continual submission to His heavenly Father was empowered and kept focused through His prayer life. Christ’s example of prayer is ours to follow.

Jesus Christ was no less God on earth when praying to His Father in heaven. He was depicting how even in sinless humanity it is necessary to have a vital prayer life in order to do His Father’s will. Jesus' praying to the Father was a demonstration of His relationship within the Trinity and an example for us that we must rely on God through prayer for the strength and wisdom we need. Since Christ, as the God-man, needed to have a vibrant prayer life, so should the follower of Christ today.
https://gotquestions.org/Jesus-pray-God.html
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
113
39
Australia
#12
New International Version
"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

New Living Translation
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!"

English Standard Version
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Berean Study Bible
"Truly, truly, I tell you," Jesus declared, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

Berean Literal Bible
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

New American Standard Bible
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

King James Bible
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Jesus said to them, "I assure you: Before Abraham was, I am."

International Standard Version
Jesus told them, "Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, before there was an Abraham, I AM!"

NET Bible
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the solemn truth, before Abraham came into existence, I am!"

New Heart English Bible
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM."
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#13
It appears that CC views the deity of Jesus as being an "essential". My personal opinion is that Jesus is God come in the flesh. He is in the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are One. There is only one God.

Quote:

I guess I assumed everyone knew what the essentials are...

Here are examples of the essentials...
(Thise are here to give a general idea of what is essential to the faith, it's not a comprehensive doctrinal statement from this site.)

1. The deity of Jesus.
2. The inspiration and authority of the Bible as found in the 66 books of the Bible.
3. Faith in the crucixition, death and resurrection of Jesus is the only way to reconcile you to relationship with God.
4. Jesus is coming back again!
5. Believers should seek to live for God and not the world.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...eated-discussions-please-read.html#post117444
 
Last edited:

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,477
113
#14
John 20:31 "But these are written that YOU MAY BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD, and that by believing you may have life in HIS name."
John 3:17-18”For God did not send HIS SON into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of GODS ONE AND ONLY SON.”


Romans 1:2-4 "the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding HIS SON, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David, and who THROUGH THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS was declared THE SON OF GOD with power by his resurrection from the dead: JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD."


john 11:4 "When he heard this, JESUS SAID, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that GOD'S SON may be glorified through it."


JOHN 11:41-42 "So they took away the stone. Then JESUS LOOKED UP AND SAID , “Father, I thank YOU that YOU HAVE HEARD ME. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may BELIEVE THAT YOU SENT ME."


john 11:27 "“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the CHRIST, the SON OF GOD, who is to come into the world.”


John 12:23 "Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the SON OF MAN to be glorified. "


john 12:26 "Whoever serves me must follow me; and WHERE I AM, MY SERVANT WILL ALSO BE. MY FATHER WILL HONOR THE ONE WHO SERVES ME."


john 12:49-50 “ For I did not speak ON MY OWN, but THE FATHER WHO SENT ME COMMANDED ME to say all that I have spoken. I know that HIS COMMAND leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is JUST WHAT THE FATHER TOLD ME TO SAY.”


does it seem like Jesus is the Father? or does He continually refer to His Father as God?


john 20:17 “Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to MY BROTHERS and tell them, 'I am ascending to MY FATHER and YOUR FATHER, to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD .'’


What of Jesus prayer?


john 17:1-5 “After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify YOUR SON, that YOUR SON MAY GLORIFY YOU . For YOU GRANTED HIM AUTHORITY OVER ALL PEOPLE that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they know YOU THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU HAVE SENT ( John 3:16-18) I have brought YOU GLORY on earth by finishing the work YOU GAVE ME TO DO. And now, Father, GLORIFY ME in YOUR PRESENCE withTHE GLORY I HAD WITH YOU before the world began.”


I understand this subject is touchy to some and confusing to others, with the trinity doctrine so vaugue and the many differing views of things, My point is that scripture is plain, it doesnt require anything But the spirit, prayer and belief. were not supposed to try to figure it out in our minds or reason Just acceopt whats written. the reason we have to stick to the scriptures ?


“ if you stand in front of a mirror and say His name 3 times, Jesus will give you eternal Life” in other words, without knowing and believing Gods word of things, anything can be said “ God said this” but if we have the scripture, a person can easily say “ No! thats false it is not in scripture anywhere” thats How we learn Gods word, By believing it, prayerfully considering it, desiring to Know what He is truly saying, what His true words are. There is no unity until we accept the only One authorized to remove the old, and give the new. Jesus, the Christ and Son of God. more scripture regarding God the Father, and His Son who is Our only image of God, His Only begotten Son.


john 17:6-8 “I have REVEALED YOU to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; YOU GAVE THEM TO ME and they have OBEYED YOUR WORD. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I GAVE THEM THE WORDS YOU GAVE ME AND THEY ACCEPTED THEM. They knew with certainty that I CAME FROM YOU, and they believed that YOU SENT ME.”


john 17 :14-17 “ I have given them YOUR WORD and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the EVIL ONE. ( yes satan is on the earth) They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; YOUR WORD IS TRUTH.” (consider v 6-8)


john 17:22-26 “I have GIVEN THEM THE GLORY that YOU GAVE ME, that they may be one AS WE ARE ONE— 23I IN THEM AND YOU IN ME—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as YOU HAVE LOVED ME.
24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the GLORY YOU HAVE GIVEN ME before the creation of the world. 25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I KNOW YOU, and they know that YOU HAVE SENT ME. 26I HAVE MADE YOU KNOWN TO THEM, and will continue to make you known in order that the LOVE YOU HAVE FOR ME may be IN THEM and that I myself may be IN THEM.”


notice whats being said here about us being one with Jesus, and He is one with God. then consider Jesus telling phillip “ I and the Father are One , you have now seen the Father” Jesus is NOT claiming to Be the Father, But He is saying to see Me, is to see God. He is again the exact representation of His Father, who is spirit and cannot be seen or known........But if we Know His Only Son who is exactly Like Him, and is One with Him, then we Have a Lord who we are one with. if we become one with Jesus, He is already One with God. this is what Jesus is saying in other places as well


john 15:9-11 ““As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you KEEP MY COMMANDS, you will remain in my love, JUST AS I HAVE KEPT MY FATHERS COMMANDS and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete”


john 14:1 ““Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in Goda ; believe ALSO IN ME”


Jesus never made the claim to be God, His clear claim and the truth is that He is the Promised Christ, the Only begotten Son of God. when He says “ before abraham was , I am” He is making the clear statement that He was before abraham and is OF God. What child DOESNT bear His Fathers name??? still the Son is of the Father, But He is not the Father, Jesus also Has a God, it Just happens to Be His Father and the reason we all talk of “ inheritance through Jesus” He is the Son, all of the inheritance of God belongs to Gods Son, He is so full of Love for us that He offers to share with us the inheritance of eternal Life. those who accept Him as the Christ and Son of God, having all authority and the Only Lord and Savior there is.


John 10:17-18 “The REASON MY FATHER LOVES ME is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have AUTHORITY to lay it down and AUTHORITY to take it up again. THIS COMMAND I RECEIVED from my Father.”

would God need to give Himself a command to follow? Or is Jesus saying Just what He means?

1 john 5:1-5 "Everyone who believes that JESUS IS THE CHRIST is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who BELIEVES THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD."


there are 2 times as many saying the same things. Believe in Jesus the Christ, and the Son of the Living God. that is the Christian belief that leads to rebeirth 1 john 5:1, and victory over the world 1 john 5:5. Because it is the truth of Gods Word. to be very clear, Jesus divinity is that of Gods eternal Son, He is no less divine, yet there is a day when He will also become subject to God, as He already was on earth. Jesus Has the Same God that you and I have, and thanks to Him, the SAME FATHER Hallelujah !

Jesus is the promised Christ, foretold from ages past Learn the prophets of old to know Jesus role, and Learn His word to Know God the Father.
You have denied that Jesus is LORD.And have declared Him not to be God. Thus you must also declare Jesus to be blasphemous because time and time again He allowed people to worship Him which no mere man would do..

[video=youtube;sS-lLTfCI7c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS-lLTfCI7c[/video]
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#15
New International Version
"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

New Living Translation
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!"

English Standard Version
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Berean Study Bible
"Truly, truly, I tell you," Jesus declared, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

Berean Literal Bible
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

New American Standard Bible
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

King James Bible
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Jesus said to them, "I assure you: Before Abraham was, I am."

International Standard Version
Jesus told them, "Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, before there was an Abraham, I AM!"

NET Bible
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the solemn truth, before Abraham came into existence, I am!"

New Heart English Bible
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM."
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God. Lev 18:2

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Ex 3:14

John 5:43-47
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#16
I wonder just how many Christ deniers posing as believers we have on this forum?? :confused:
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#17
Well this has been discussed over and over again in this forum.

You have a lot of scriptures there..

Jesus DID claim to be God though.

Jesus gives eternal life. How can a being who is NOT God do that?

Jesus forgives sin.. in the 3rd person.. eg.. I hit you... then Jesus comes along and says I forgive you in the 3rd person. Only God can do that!

In Revelation.. it is the Spirit speaking to the churches.. but this is also the Revelation of Jesus Christ. And Jesus is referred to as the Alpha, Omega, beginning and End.

If that isn't a reference to Jesus being God.. I don't know what is.

As said before--

Jesus is God, the Father is God, the Holy Spirit is God.. co-eternal.. co-equal.

One God.. one being.. in three essences/substances/persons.

If any of these entities is a 'lesser God' .. then you end up with Polytheism!

Anyway.. this is probably going to go round in circles again for like 8 pages of replies..
thanks for the OPINION and expressing your thoughts.......but i prefer this

john 6:27-29 "Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the SON OF MAN will give you. For ON HIM, GOD THE FATHER has placed HIS SEAL OF APPROVAL.” Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to BELIEVE IN THE ONE HE HAS SENT.”


JOHN 6 :46 "No one has SEEN THE FATHER except THE ONE WHO IS FROM GOD; only HE HAS SEEN THE FATHER ."


john 6:57 "Just as the living FATHER SENT ME and I live BECAUSE OF the Father, so the one who feeds on me WILL LIVE BECAUSE OF ME."


John 6:61-63 "Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? Then what if you see the SON OF MAN ASCEND to where HE WAS BEFORE The SPIRIT GIVES LIFE; the flesh counts for nothing. The WORDS I HAVE SPOKEN to you—they are full of the SPIRIT AND LIFE."


John 7:16-17 "Jesus answered, “My teaching is NOT MY OWN. It comes from THE ONE WHO SENT ME. Anyone who chooses to DO the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes FROM GOD or whether I speak ON MY OWN."


john 7:28-29" Then Jesus, still teaching in the temple courts, cried out, “Yes, you know me, and you know where I am from. I am NOT HERE ON MY OWN AUTHORITY, but HE WHO SENT ME IS TRUE. You do not know him, 29but I KNOW HIM because I AM FROM HIM and HE SENT ME.”


John 8:14-18 "Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I CAME FROM and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I AM NOT ALONE. I stand WITH THE FATHER, WHO SENT ME. In YOUR OWN LAW it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. I AM ONE who testifies for myself; MY OTHER WITNESS IS THE FATHER WHO SENT ME."


john 8:23-29 " But he continued, “You are from below; I AM FROM ABOVE. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am HE, you will indeed die in your sins.” ( 1 john 5:1-5)
“Who are you?” they asked.
“Just what I have been TELLING YOU from the beginning,” Jesus replied. “I have much to say in judgment of you. But HE WHO SENT ME is trustworthy, and what I have HEARD FROM HIM I TELL THE WORLD.” They did not understand that he was telling them about HIS FATHER. So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the SON OF MAN, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing ON MY OWN but speak just what THE FATHER HAS TAUGHT ME. The ONE WHO SENT ME IS WITH ME; he has not left me alone, for I ALWAYS DO WHAT PLEASES HIM.”


John 8:40 "As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, A MAN WHO HAS TOLD YOU THE TRUTH THAT I HEARD FROM GOD. Abraham did not do such things."


JOHN 8:42-43 "Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here FROM GOD. I have NOT COME ON MY OWN; GOD SENT ME. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say."


john 8:54-55 "Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My FATHER, whom you claim as YOUR GOD, is THE ONE WHO GLORIFIES ME. Though you do not know him, I KNOW HIM. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I DO KNOW HIM and OBEY HIS WORD."


john 8:49-51 "“I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I HONOR MY FATHER and you dishonor me. I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. VERY TRULY I TELL YOU, WHOEVER OBEYS MY WORD WILL NEVER SEE DEATH.”


John 8:58 "“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”"


is Jesus claiming to Be God the Father? Or is He claiming to be the Christ, the Son of God? Gods Son WAS before abraham, this is not a claim that He is God, His consistant claim is that God sent Him ( the Christ) And that He is The Son of God. it is not wrong for a person to call Him God, Because He is the Son of God, He is of His Father Like any Son has His Fathers Life in Him, Jesus the Son of God is exalted to God the Fathers right hand, where He was before the creation of the World. John 17. Jesus the Christ and Son of God NEVER claimed to Be God, He claimed to Be Gods Only Son, and the Promised Christ. To understand that " he is god" is to understand that He is Gods Son, the exact representation of His Father.


He is more than any other Prophet or apostle By Far, study what the bible actually says about Jesus beginning with the prophets, and ending in revelation and there is One conclusion Jesus is the promised Christ, The Son of the Living God. making Him Lord of All. Again the bible is full of the same message of Jesus. there are very few verses that can be made to seem as if Jesus is the Father But there is a consistant teaching of who Jesus is. Jesus said it over and over. Peter said it, Paul said it, John said it, James said it, all of the prophets of old foretold it and what is far More than all of that is that God, the eternal Father said it at Jesus baptism and transfiguration ( which by the way He took 3 witnesses with Him to establish who He is " every matter shall be established by 2 or three witnesses.


matthew 17:5 "While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"


James, John and Peter were witnesses to this. God saying " this is my Son whom i Love, with Him i ap well pleased, Listen to Him!" God gave testimony that Jesus is His Son, Jesus gave testimony that Jesus is Gods Son, all the apostles Give this testimony. If we Just learn what Gods word says of things, then we grow in the Knowledge of God, and that Knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ His only begotten Son.... is Life, and rebirth into eternal Life.


you should have plenty of scripture where Jesus is claiming to be God since you are so sure of it, but I dont believe in anyone But Jesus, the world is full of differing opinions and theories....Jesus is the One to trust and Believe tho.
 
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#18
I like the first chapter of the gospel of John.

Everything explained there.
yep its a great chapter but really it is throughout the bible from the prophets of old who began promising the Christ, the Son of God...and continuing through the revelation of Jesus Christ. we see exactly who God is, what He is saying, How He feels about us every aspect of Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son is to see God, who cannot Himself be seen, only when we look at His Son who WAS seen do we see Gods perfect image, and only through that can we Know the eternal Father who alone is God. and sticking to one chaoter or random verses leaves much knowledge out
 
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#19
I understand when a false doctrine takes root it derails the Mind.

if we accept grace is God, only Grace matters. and then we take websters definition of Grace.....then we invent ideas Like " Goid had to die to save us" who actuallky believes that God is even able to die and that creation would continue without the source of Life?

if this is true in anyones Mind, then Jesus is Gods Son or were not believing the Word.

John 3:16-18 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."


If God sent His Only Son, and Jesus continually claims to Be His Son, all the apostles testify to it.....why then does our opinions change Gods truth? God sent His Son to Save us. that is the truth. His Son, Gods own Son makes Him exactly Like God. there is no other person who is Like Jesus, concieved by the spirit of God, born of a virgin.....Immanuel God with us in Hois Only Son Jesus the Christ.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#20
"No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him."

J 1:18, NASB (the most faithful translation to the Greek original I have found)
exactly No one has ever seen God, many people looked upon Jesus, Jesus is all God is to us, but clearly and without dispute He is Gods Only begotten. its not wrong to say He is God, because He is the ONLY begotten of God. Just like any child is of thier Father it is the Fathers Life in the Child, the Fathers blood in us that Gives us Life. Jesus is not josephs Son not a human Fathers Son, He is the Only Son of the Only God. that exalts Him to equality with God thats why the pharisees were going to stone Him, because He claimed to be Gods Son, and that is a claim to euqality with Him. He is equal, He is divine, He is eternal, was already with God before Creation scripture is clear on that. But He is not the Father nor did He ever claim to be, He claimed God was in Him God is spirit, Jesus had Gods spirit in Him.

john 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but the one and ONLY SON, who is himself God and is in CLOSEST RELATIONSHIP WITH the Father, has made him known."

understand this verse in completeness with these...

2 corinthians 4:4 "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the IMAGE OF God."

exodus 33:20 "But He said, "You cannot see My face, for NO MAN can see Me and live!"

1 timothy 6:16 "who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, WHOM NO ONE HAS SEEN OR CAN SEE. To him be honor and might forever. Amen."

1 john 4:12 "NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN GOD; but if we love one another, God remains in us, and His love is perfected in us."

this one from 1 john is written By John, who walkede with Jesus, and who was present at His transfiguration where a BRIGHT CLOUD enveloped them ( inapproachable Light) and a voice said "This is My Son, with Whom i am well pleased, Listen to Him" John writes this epistle long after He walked with Jesus the Christ. yet still He makes a distinction between God the Father and Jesus. Jesus is the Image of God, we cant see God God is known and "seen" only by Knowing Jesus His only begotten, who is equal to God....ntil this day where a clear distinction is again made

1 corinthians 15:24-28 "Then the end will come, when HE HANDS OVER THE KINGDOM TO GOD THE FATHER after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.”[SUP]c[/SUP]Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF, who put everything UNDER CHRIST. 28When he has done this, then the SON HIMSELF will be MADE SUBJECT TO HIM who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."


Just really consider this : if Jesus is God the Father Himself, why then did God need to put everything under Jesus? and why then will Jesus the Son, Hand the Kingdom over to God the Father? and why then will Jesus again be made subject to God the Father? if we are talking about God who is One, why the elaborate scriptures explaining all theese things?


its pretty common to just ignore what written and revert to things we learned in Church as kids....but were called to learn truth, and truth is found in the written Words of God. I will forever stick With scripture rather than new age pastors, and popular best selling authors telling people why not to actually accept Jesus and His word.