"replacement theology" - what is it?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
That was ringing in my spirit this afternoon desertrose, but I couldn't find that scripture.

To me....the end! :)
(Of this thread)

Thank you also to who gave that rep.
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
what is it? A bunch of baloney.

God can keep His word to Israel and the Church. There's no lack of supply.

God promised that Jesus would rule from Jerusalem and He will physically
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
You do realize that means when they come to know Christ... they get saved like Paul did.

Nice try, KJV, but totally wrong!

Jesus is speaking to Jerusalem, the city in Israel. Jerusalem who killed the prophets and stoned those sent to her. This Jerusalem who's house is left desolate.

There's no question as to who He's speaking to. The church is already saying, "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord."

He's coming for Jerusalem that's not saying, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."

It's a no brainer really.


 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,940
113


Hi Angela,

That's quite a bit of information there. I didn't have time to read it all, but I did want to offer some information for you to consider.

You're giving general information from one group of Jews, the orthodox. They are giving their point of view of what they believe about their country, their people, their religion, and who can be considered Jewish by their rules. Just because they say this, it doesn't make it truth. It's their opinion.

The Orthodox Jews (OJ) are more like the Pharasic leaders in Jesus' day. They are similar to Catholics in one way, they hold oral law above the scriptures. They are not considered following Biblical Judaism. The OJ's follow Rabbinic Judaism. They follow commentaries written by Rabbis. They hold to an oral law they claim was given to Moses. They void God's word through their teachings, just like the Pharisees did.

There's also Biblical Judaism and they follow scripture only. You also have Conservative Judaism, Reformed Judaism, Messanic Judaism which most won't acknowledge as Judaism. Among the orthodox, you have ultra orthodox.

Anyway, there's a lot more to be said, but the OJ's would have been rejected by Jesus because they are the modern day Pharisee.

Most of the Israeli Jews are secular.

God has used the Zionist movement to bring about His purposes. Many Jews continue to make Aliyah. What an exciting time in history we're living in.

In America we're all Americans no matter the nationality or religion. It's the same with Israel. At this time in history, the Jews are mostly secular. None of them live by Mosiac law, they can't, even if they wanted to.

It's what God considers Jewish, not man's opinion like the OJ.

Actually not my opinion but the historical record. There were many Jews living in Palestine before Partition in 1948. In fact, half of the Jews in Israel today are descendents of these Jews. And a good portion of them were Orthodox, who returned at various times to the Holy Land. They did not believe that a modern state, created by man, was the Israel prophecied in the Bible. And if you had bothered to read the article, you would have read about the Zionist Jews, mostly secular, who decided they needed to claim the land, and have a Jewish homeland. And what better place to do it than the land of ancient Israel?

Israel was lobbied for and created by these secular Jews, who comprise 80% of the Jews in Israel today. They have no faith. They do not believe in Yahweh or a coming Messiah. The ones who were instrumental in creating Israel did not believe in these so-called promises of God, which as other have so rightly pointed out, were already fulfilled. In fact the Pharisees did become the preservers of the OT laws and rituals. They were Torah observant Jews. But, at least they believed God and the Bible, over modern Jews, who by and large do not believe in the God of the Bible.

As for God using the Zionist movement, I don't see a record of God using evil for good. In fact, God did use some ancient kings, like Cyrus to return the formerly disobedient Jews to Israel. But Cyrus was considered "good" for all he did in bringing back the Jews, including giving them the money to rebuild the temple. The temple that Herod refurbished, which was burnt to the ground and razed, in 70 AD. Thus fulfilling a lot of prophesy.

I feel sorry for people who delude themselves about the place of secular Israel in God's plan. My point being - even the religious Jews themselves do not believe that modern Israel is the land God promised. As for the Orthodox - well, they do try and live by the Mosiac law, and they are the one saying modern Israel is not of God. Better take a while and think that one through, ok?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
The bible tells us who killed Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 2:14-15 KJV
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

[15] Who both killed the Lord Jesus,
and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
which Jews is Paul speaking of? all, a few, this group that group, go back to Jesus crucifixion, and when paul was run out of the temple, priest leadership and romans not the nation. and most the Jews of that leadership were roman puppets.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Have you read Ezekiel's account of the temple, priests, animal sacrifices?
Again, if we would have only the Old Testament, I would agree with your view.

But it is impossible now, when we have also the New Testament. Its all explained there.

You are still looking for things in the Old Covenant which is invalid now. And do not accept the words of the one which came later and is explaining all such things.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
nonsense, laugh, people. Do we care what people think in general, or whether they laugh or cry?
We care what our Lord thinks and says, for He is our Lord. Sounds like you neither care nor
respect His people.

edit,

I just noticed this was Peter.. smh whatever dude..
You have issues, You think everyone who disagrees wiht you disagrees with God. Face it dude, YOU ARE NOT GOD.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes,our church supports many outreaches to the Jewish people. But many will not come until their eyes have been opened. That does not mean we do not tell them. But with the history of the church and their relationship to Jews many Jews are very skeptical of Christians,and I cannot blame them with some of the things Ive heard said here.
It is amazing how we can open up the truth to jews. Just show them the word. Many when they hear we believe in the return of Israel after they repent. That God has not given up on them, are open. That is how most of the jews in my church got saved. They did not feel judged and hated on. They felt loved, this opened the door for them to hear truth.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
stonesoffire:

If we would not have the New Testament, I would understand that you hold such doctrine. Having the OT only, it is apparent such view will be naturally hold if the Holy Spirit will not shed some light on it. Thats why Jews did not recognize the Christ. They got the wrong idea about the promise.

But why do you not count with what the New Testament says about all this?

For example:

-----------------


"And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.

For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless

Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all."


Romans 4

-----------------

From this you can see that:

1. Unbelieving Jews are not the heirs of Abraham. So today´s Jews did not inherit any state of Israel and will not inherit anything else.

2. The promise about the land/world was not given to Jews (the people of the Law) only, but to us all.
We, who are in Christ, are the true heirs of Abraham, Jew, Chinese, Czech or American.
Those are passages concerning salvation. In response to jews who believed and tought that as a blood relative of abraham They were automatically saved. I know people who believe this today. My parents were church goers and followers of God. so I will go to heaven to.

It is called context.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
but thats exactly what your doing when you use terms like "the Jews". read about the history of Jerusalem in the days of Jesus and it will give you a better understanding of how things were in the days of the living Jesus. king herod and his officials were Jewish yet they were very roman in their heart and they killed many good Jews to get their positions. the Pharisees and Sadducees did the same to many of the lead priest. John the Baptist Father was one of these men and he was a good man that loved the Lord, he was killed for that over political agendas. many of the people saw them for what they were and wanted nothing to do with their ways.


its the same thing, i grew up being told it was the germans that did it all yet the majority of the german people had no idea what hitler, the nazis and the SS were up to. it wasnt the germans it was the nazis, one group of germans among many other germans.


did you ever stop and think of how many Jews are driven away from our faith by Christian leaders that were just as corrupt as the pharisees in the old days.
i have many native ancestors that hated Christianity, they never knew the true message of Jesus, all they knew were european Christians that killed their families and took everything without asking. i dont think those people were the real voice of Christianity, i know better.

I know many gentiles who have been driven away from Jesus by the so called church. And want nothing to do with God. because of all the hate and judgment..

Sadly, the same church that hated the jew and what it stood for became just like them. Look at the history, you will see a resemblance of things they did, just change some terms, but they are quite alike.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Well, its in the Bible. Paul uses it.

If you dont like it, you must complain to him.

I will use it as the Bible does - "Jews killed the Lord Jesus."

Not Chinese, not Indians, not Romans.

Not today´s Jews, not all Jews, but Jews.
smh.

So because "SOME' Jews screamed to put Jesus to death, Lets judge a whole nation.

Even God is more gracious. Thank God he is God. or we would all be doomed.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
your applying the acts of a few individuals to the entire nation.
Yes, Where it all comes from. Then blameshift..

The jew killed my Lord. So God is done with them, and will never allow them back in..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes, Where it all comes from. Then blameshift..

The jew killed my Lord. So God is done with them, and will never allow them back in..
Again, Paul is.

Do you think that today´s Jews would not kill Him? If so, then the characteristics were only about Jews 2000 years ago. But I do not know that.

What would today´s orthodox Jews do if Jesus would come and said He is God, He can forgive sins and that they are the children of devil? I am not sure, they are quite aggressive.
I rest my case. Blame shift. Paul said the whole nation did (even though he never said such a thing, He was a jew himself.)

Paul did it (even though he did not)

Do you realise that most people who call themselves christian would also cal for Jesus to be put to death as a false teacher. Because he rejects their legalism just like he did the religious jew?

Do you also realise, the early church mostly consisted of converted jews who were converted in their home of record (they were still scattered in christ's day)
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
what is it? A bunch of baloney.

God can keep His word to Israel and the Church. There's no lack of supply.


God promised that Jesus would rule from Jerusalem and He will physically

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

Being a new creature has nothing to do with the flesh. What we are is not what we will be.That's Satan realm ,the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh the private of this life.

Christ said His own flesh used for a one time demonstration of a work not seen it does not profit because flesh cannot profit. .
The born again church is the Jew inwardly (born of God) not born of Abraham. And just as he promised He would name His people a new name (Christian, meaning residents of the heavenly new Jerusalem ) He did perform that work .God puts no difference between purifying the hearts of both by a work of His faith.

And the idea of a fleshly Jesus as the Son of man as the Spirit of Christ has come. The demonstration is over (one per promise).

Why look for something that cannot be beheld by the eye?

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Acts1:11

We are to not look for any form , ( God is not a man as us, never was never will be.) But will come by the power of Spirit of Elijah, the Spirit of Christ In either case of the parable. Elisha pictured in a parable or Christ vanishing out of sight . Flesh and blood will not because it cannot enter the kingdom of God which will never be on this corrupted
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
not according to what the bible teaches. do you want the truth about who killed Jesus or you just going to cherry pick the passages you want to see to justify blaming all the Jews.
here is another truth, feel free to ignore this as well. caiaphas, the High priest that lead the plot to kill Jesus was given his position of authority not by "the Jews" but by the roman governor, whos interest do you think he was looking out for, Israel or Rome.
Maybe his own also? Certainly not the jews.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Those are passages concerning salvation. In response to jews who believed and tought that as a blood relative of abraham They were automatically saved. I know people who believe this today. My parents were church goers and followers of God. so I will go to heaven to.

It is called context.
Everything was always about salvation. From Genesis to Revelation.

Its called the overall context.

The nation of Israel and all promises were just means to bring Christ to the world. It has already happened.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,586
1,047
113

It's what God considers Jewish, not man's opinion like the OJ.

then what to do with this?

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. (Rom 2:29-29)
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
Have you read Ezekiel's account of the temple, priests, animal sacrifices?
There's a whole lot I could tell you about Ezekiel's temple but you wont recieve it.

  • Ezekiel's temple is NOT an physical temple, it's THE HUMAN body.
  • The stones in that temple are NOT physical stones.
  • The priest's in that temple are NOT Levitical priests, they are US.
  • The sacrifices in that temple ARE NOT physical sacrifices, they are SPIRITUAL sacrifices.
1 Peter 2:5 KJV
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1) Wilderness Tabernacle
2) Solomons' Temple
3) Herod's Temple
4) The Body of Christ

The number 4 represents spiritual things, Ezekiel's temple is the 4th temple found in the 40TH chapter of Ezekiel. Nobody is going to be sacrificing animals during the millennium... that's blasphemy to resume animal sacrifice after Christ became the PASSOVER LAMB.

Hebrews 10:5-7 KJV
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: [6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Do you think God is going to have pleasure in animal sacrifices during the millenium?

Hebrews 10:11-12 KJV
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Christ offered ONE sacrifice for ALL times... Was that sarcrifice not good enough for the people durig the millenium?

You guys are UNBELIEVABLE! You guys accuse me of antisemitism and NOT UNDERSTANDING the bible while ya'lll BLASPHEME the blood of Christ by saying that animal sacrifices will resume in the millenium.

Yall can't even understand something as simple as "the children of the promise" and yet your trying to use the book of Ezekiel which yall have NO CLUE as what it means, to justify your Jew worship.
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Right now Israel is not at war. Are you talking about reprisals (airstikes) after the other side started it...... Hey, just tell them to quit throwing rockets over the border. Israel will not attack anybody unless attacked.
I find it quite amazing, and it is telling

If Mexico was doing what the Palestinians were doing, The American people would screaming for us to wipe them off the map, do whatever it takes to make them stop.

But if Israel does one thing to defend themselves. Everyone is all up in arms.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
1 Thessalonians 2:14-15 KJV
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

[15] Who both killed the Lord Jesus,
and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
so you deny that the romans killed Jesus?

More importantly. Your denying that Jesus, who could have saved himself. took his own life. And no one killed him (when we really get down to it) and if anything, Your sin killed Jesus (as did mine)


As for this passage it is quite clear. Christian jews, have suffered like their countrymen who were killed. The men who killed Jesus and the prophets.