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Thread: "replacement theology" - what is it?

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    OK,,,,what are you trying to tell me..... it simply tells you the history between God and HIS people. Yet the Bible tells us he will bring them Home to him or at least some of them.

    Make no mistake these are God's people and you would be better off to leave them alone.

    Genesis 12:1-3..."God had told Abram, Leave your own country behind you, and your own people, and go to the land I will guide you to. 2 If you do, I will cause you to become the father of a great nation; I will bless you and make your name famous, and you will be a blessing to many others. 3 I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you; and the entire world will be blessed because of you.”
    You seem to always forget that Abraham was the father of many nations and you always attribute everything to the flesh descendants. Which children is the verse you posted talking about, the flesh children or the children of the promise?
    Psalm 12:6 KJV
    The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Abraham was the father of many nations, when you see verses like the one below, it's talking about the children of the promise, not the children of the flesh.

    Deuteronomy 7:6-7 KJV
    For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. [7] The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:


    Verses like the one below is talking about the children of the flesh.

    Exodus 33:3 KJV
    Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way.
    Psalm 12:6 KJV
    The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by KJV1611 View Post
    Abraham was the father of many nations, when you see verses like the one below, it's talking about the children of the promise, not the children of the flesh.

    Deuteronomy 7:6-7 KJV
    For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. [7] The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:


    Verses like the one below is talking about the children of the flesh.

    Exodus 33:3 KJV
    Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way.
    I forgot to mention this earlier but the one's lised in the 3rd verse of the 33rd chapter(what a coincidence lol) of Exodus, these are the ENEMIES of the gospel. The ones in the 7th chapter (another coincidence) of Deuteronomy, these are the ELECT of God.

    Use that principle when reading this verse.

    Romans 11:28 KJV
    As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
    Psalm 12:6 KJV
    The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by KJV1611 View Post
    Abraham was the father of many nations, when you see verses like the one below, it's talking about the children of the promise, not the children of the flesh.

    Deuteronomy 7:6-7 KJV
    For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. [7] The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
    Please, give up cherry picking and stop making a new theology out of a single verse. This is something you do time and time again and its so frustrating to see. It is clear you have no understanding of context, or if you do you choose to ignore what is clearly written and easy to understand in order to promote the theology you subscribe to. If you have to work hard to make your theology fit the verses you want, then it is a good indication you are wrong. Read the other verses please.


    Chapter 7 V1 When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

    2 And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:

    3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
    4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
    5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
    6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
    7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
    8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by KJV1611 View Post
    Ezekiel's temple is under construction right now. It has nothing to do with the dome of the rock or Jerusalem period. Ezekiel's temple is the true temple of God, it's not a shadow. Ezekiel's temple is the body of Christ.
    Is it a physical building you are talking about.
    Have a Blessed Day!

    While reading these words I have posted above, remember to check these truths out for yourself. (Acts 17:11 (KJV))

    Blade

    When you receive the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior, you will also receiveThe Holy Spirit who will teach you but you have to be willing to learn from Him. He will guide you in daily activities but you have to listen to Him. He will keep, protect and maintain your soul in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit but you have to let Him.

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    As KJV and many others have pointed out, no paternity suit will win you citizenship of Israel in God's court of Law.

    Isaiah 65:I was ready to be sought out by those who did not ask,
    to be found by those who did not seek me.
    I said, “Here I am, here I am,”
    to a nation that did not call on my name.
    2 I held out my hands all day long
    to a rebellious people,
    who walk in a way that is not good,
    following their own devices;
    3 a people who provoke me
    to my face continually,
    sacrificing in gardens
    and offering incense on bricks;
    4 who sit inside tombs,
    and spend the night in secret places;
    who eat swine’s flesh,
    with broth of abominable things in their vessels;
    5 who say, “Keep to yourself,
    do not come near me, for I am too holy for you.”

    These are a smoke in my nostrils,
    a fire that burns all day long.
    6 See, it is written before me:
    I will not keep silent, but I will repay;
    I will indeed repay into their laps
    7 their[a] iniquities and their[b] ancestors’ iniquities together,
    says the Lord;
    because they offered incense on the mountains
    and reviled me on the hills,
    I will measure into their laps
    full payment for their actions.
    8 Thus says the Lord:
    As the wine is found in the cluster,
    and they say, “Do not destroy it,
    for there is a blessing in it,”
    so I will do for my servants’ sake,
    and not destroy them all.
    9 I will bring forth descendants[c] from Jacob,
    and from Judah inheritors[d] of my mountains;
    my chosen shall inherit it,
    and my servants shall settle there.
    10 Sharon shall become a pasture for flocks,
    and the Valley of Achor a place for herds to lie down,
    for my people who have sought me.
    11 But you who forsake the Lord,
    who forget my holy mountain,
    who set a table for Fortune
    and fill cups of mixed wine for Destiny;
    12 I will destine you to the sword,
    and all of you shall bow down to the slaughter;
    because, when I called, you did not answer,
    when I spoke, you did not listen,
    but you did what was evil in my sight,
    and chose what I did not delight in.
    13 Therefore thus says the Lord God:
    My servants shall eat,
    but you shall be hungry;
    my servants shall drink,
    but you shall be thirsty;
    my servants shall rejoice,
    but you shall be put to shame;
    14 my servants shall sing for gladness of heart,
    but you shall cry out for pain of heart,
    and shall wail for anguish of spirit.
    15 You shall leave your name to my chosen to use as a curse,
    and the Lord God will put you to death;
    but to his servants he will give a different name.
    16 Then whoever invokes a blessing in the land
    shall bless by the God of faithfulness,
    and whoever takes an oath in the land
    shall swear by the God of faithfulness;
    because the former troubles are forgotten
    and are hidden from my sight.


    17 For I am about to create new heavens
    and a new earth;

    the former things shall not be remembered
    or come to mind.

    18 But be glad and rejoice forever
    in what I am creating;
    for I am about to create Jerusalem as a joy,
    and its people as a delight.

    19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
    and delight in my people;
    no more shall the sound of weeping be heard in it,
    or the cry of distress.
    20 No more shall there be in it
    an infant that lives but a few days,
    or an old person who does not live out a lifetime;
    for one who dies at a hundred years will be considered a youth,
    and one who falls short of a hundred will be considered accursed.
    21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
    they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
    22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
    they shall not plant and another eat;
    for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be,
    and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
    23 They shall not labor in vain,
    or bear children for calamity;[e]
    for they shall be offspring blessed by the Lord—
    and their descendants as well.
    24 Before they call I will answer,
    while they are yet speaking I will hear.
    25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
    the lion shall eat straw like the ox;
    but the serpent—its food shall be dust!
    They shall not hurt or destroy
    on all my holy mountain,
    says the Lord.


    New Jerusalem. Done.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    There has been a lot of Israel bashing on this thread..

    I think this will put the fact to rest that Israel is God's people and will always be.

    Ezekiel 36: 16-21 (KJV)

    "16 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

    17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

    18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

    19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

    20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land.

    21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went."

    Yet in 1948 he brought them back to their land and in 1967 he gave them back their holy city, Jerusalem. Now all is left to do is give them back the Holy Mount and let them build a Temple and Holy of Holies to their God. It is coming and was foretold in Daniel 9:27

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    How can the angel measure the temple in Revelations 11 then kjv?
    They are measurements of time aren't they?

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    There has been a lot of Israel bashing on this thread..

    I think this will put the fact to rest that Israel is God's people and will always be.

    Ezekiel 36: 16-21 (KJV)

    "16 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

    17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

    18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

    19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

    20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land.

    21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went."

    Yet in 1948 he brought them back to their land and in 1967 he gave them back their holy city, Jerusalem. Now all is left to do is give them back the Holy Mount and let them build a Temple and Holy of Holies to their God. It is coming and was foretold in Daniel 9:27

    This is wildly errant.

    The House of Israel has nothing whatsoever to do with the modern state called Israel. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

    The House of Israel was a completely separate entity to the House of Judah.

    Are you aware of this?

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Rom 11:9:
    "What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, as it is written...:
    "May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
    May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever."


    So, according to Paul, this place in Psalm 69 is about the Israel. Let us look at this place, verses 20-29:

    --------

    Psalm 69:20

    1.
    Scorn has broken my heart and has left me helpless; I looked for sympathy, but there was none, for comforters, but I found none.
    They put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst.

    - [Seems to me Christ is talking, not David]

    2.
    May the table set before them become a snare; may it become retribution and a trap.
    May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever.


    3.
    Pour out your wrath on them; let your fierce anger overtake them.
    May their place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in their tents.


    4.
    For they persecute those you wound and talk about the pain of those you hurt.

    5.
    May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.
    Charge them with crime upon crime; do not let them share in your salvation.


    6.
    But as for me, afflicted and in pain-- may your salvation, God, protect me. [Christ]

    --------


    What do dispensionalists think about all this? How does it fit with the idea that all the people of physical Israel will be saved in the future?
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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post



    I will admit "brainwashing" should not have been used. No excuses

    Since God remakes the entire earth, there will be no Missouri to put it in........ Simple deduction my friend. It is named "the New Jerusalem". I would think that the land around it would be more like the garden of Eden was in the beginning without mortal man
    Hm, why do you think that the Revelation should be taken literally? The city there seems to be the church.
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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    Hm, why do you think that the Revelation should be taken literally? The city there seems to be the church.
    Seems like it is also a physical city.
    NarrowRoadDisciple

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by NarrowRoadDisciple View Post
    Seems like it is also a physical city.
    From what?

    "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem..."

    We know who is the wife of the Christ - church.

    "The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

    Twelve apostles are the gates to Church, because of their gospel preaching to whole the world.

    Etc, etc. Every description fits the Church perfectly.
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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    Hm, why do you think that the Revelation should be taken literally? The city there seems to be the church.
    Good evening trofimus,

    If I may, there is way too much detail describing the New Jerusalem for it to not be a literal city. You have a description of each of the twelve foundations, the thickness, height, depth and width of the walls, each of the gates made from a single pearl and much, much more.

    Just sayin'
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control ...

    I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit ...

    This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit ....

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahwatukee View Post
    Good evening trofimus,

    If I may, there is way too much detail describing the New Jerusalem for it to not be a literal city. You have a description of each of the twelve foundations, the thickness, height, depth and width of the walls, each of the gates made from a single pearl and much, much more.

    Just sayin'
    Good morning

    Yes, there are many details. But these details can also have some symbolic meaning.

    Who is the bride of Christ? Can it be some physical city?
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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by KJV1611 View Post
    You're under the assumption that the Revelation 11 temple is Ezkiel's temple, but it's not and this is easily proven. The temple in Revelation was the temple during the time of Christ.

    That temple has long been destroyed and Jerusalem was given over to the gentiles to be trodden under their feet. Yes Jerusalem has been trodden under the feet of the Gentiles for the last 2000 years. Rev temple is in the past... it's gone.

    That temple was a shadow of the true temple, which is Ezekiel's temple, which is the body of Christ. Which is where we are the PILLARS and LIVELY STONES offering up SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES to the Lord.
    So The temple in Revelation was the temple during the time of Christ. and That temple has long been destroyed and Rev temple is in the past... it's gone. . . . The new heaven and a new earth are here now? The holy city, new Jerusalem has come down? The temple in Revelation which is within the new heaven and upon the new earth, which is in the holy city, new Jerusalem is in the past . . . it's gone? How can that be? John is being given a vision of the future - John did not write Revelation, according to most scholars until 90AD so how could the temple he is "seeing" be the temple during the time of Christ and be destroyed?

    Just wondering . . .
    Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2
    Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad. Pro. 12:25
    Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Ps. 19:14
    The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Ps. 33:11
    We learn to walk spiritually the same way we learn to walk physically-by walking.

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    Is it a physical building you are talking about.
    Ezekiel's temple is the body of Christ, it's not a physical building.
    Psalm 12:6 KJV
    The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    Good morning

    Yes, there are many details. But these details can also have some symbolic meaning.

    Who is the bride of Christ? Can it be some physical city?
    I believe the reference is reflecting those who will be dwelling in it. We know from other scriptures that the bride of Christ is the church. In Rev.19:6-8 we see the bride receiving her fine linen, white and clean, therefore the bride is not a city, but those who will dwell in it. As far as symbolic meanings, I have never read anything in the description of the New Jerusalem that would lead me to a symbolic interpretation. In fact, Paul mentions the new Jerusalem as a literal city, as can be seen from the following:

    "All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
    kaylagrl likes this.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control ...

    I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit ...

    This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit ....

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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahwatukee View Post
    Paul mentions the new Jerusalem as a literal city, as can be seen from the following:

    ]If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.
    Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
    If "country" means heaven, the "city" can mean the people of God - church

    Because the city is in the country. And Church will be in heaven.


    Well, we will see in the end...
    Last edited by trofimus; December 16th, 2016 at 06:21 AM.
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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agricola View Post
    Please, give up cherry picking and stop making a new theology out of a single verse. This is something you do time and time again and its so frustrating to see. It is clear you have no understanding of context, or if you do you choose to ignore what is clearly written and easy to understand in order to promote the theology you subscribe to. If you have to work hard to make your theology fit the verses you want, then it is a good indication you are wrong. Read the other verses please.


    Chapter 7 V1 When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

    2 And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:

    3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
    4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
    5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
    6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
    7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
    8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
    Abraham was the father of 3 nations so we have to figure out which nation is being talked about by the context of the verses. The chldren of the promise were not a stiff-necked generation and the flesh descedants weren't the elect. It's easy to see which group is being taked about in scripture and it's not cherry picking.
    Psalm 12:6 KJV
    The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

  20. #1480
    Senior Member Ahwatukee's Avatar
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    Default Re: "replacement theology" - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by KJV1611 View Post
    Ezekiel's temple is the body of Christ, it's not a physical building.
    Good evening KJV,

    The temple described in Ezekiel 40-48 can be nothing but a literal temple. There is just too much detailed information regarding the temple, the portico's, the alcoves, the priest's rooms, the walls decorated with cherubim and palm trees, the detailed measurements given of everything and instructions on how to sacrifice. Not to mention the land allotments for each of the twelve tribes. It will in fact be a literal building and is not symbolic for the body of Christ. Ezk.40-48 is basically a blue print for the temple dimensions and the land allotment for the twelve tribes.
    kaylagrl likes this.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control ...

    I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit ...

    This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit ....

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