All i need to know about the future....

Ariel82 · Nov 30, 2016

Jesus told us to keep watch for He will come back to judge the nations, destroy this earth and make a New Heaven and New Earth where we will have resurrected bodies.

He tells us that He will wipe away our tears and there will be no suffering or death. That we will live eternally with Him.

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What I know of the present?

God is with us in our suffering and our pain. This life is temporary and death comes to all who have flesh, but we will be ressurrected with Him. God has given us the Holy Spirit and renews our hearts and minds in the promise that one day our body and the world will also undergo a transformation into what God created it to be without sin and death.

We will undergo tribulations in this world. We all need our armor on to be able to stand.

Without Christ all are doomed. Having the blood of Abraham is not enough, for the promise was to the Seed, not seeds.

Worldly wisdom wants to be Right, is proud, puffs people up, causes arguments, bitterness & strife.

Heavenly wisdom is gentle, allows the Holy Spirit to speak for Himself, bathed in prayer, yields peace.

So that is what I know for sure,

*******

What I still question is understanding different people's interpretation of Revelation.

I don't want an argument. If I am told I am stupid, I will put you on ignore, but if you really want to talk without walls of cut and paste text please help me see what you believe is God's revealed truth.

You can post links to articles and sermons and if God grants me time, I will listen to them. But I prefer either your own words or scripture references.

Currently my position is Ammilleninist because it makes the most sense to me upon reading scripture.

I don't understand how people believe that folks will be raptured before tribulation because Revelation 20 says they who are with Jesus had to endure death for not taking the sign of the beast.

When people say tribulation what do they actually refer to?

I always thought Judgement day referred to Revelation 20. Just before the formation of the New Heaven and New Earth, but some people think it refers to a different day?

When do people get their resurrected bodies in Revelation? I always thought it wasn't until revelation 21 when we live in the New Earth with God And He wipes away our tears.

I don't want to have a fight. Just want to understand better what others believe.

I know that if you have accepted Jesus as your Lord and savior, been born again by His Spirit, then you are my brothers and sisters. Our dad doesn't want us fighting.

So maybe we can discuss Revelation and our understanding of what God revealed in light of how it changes our world view?

So a prayer before we start.

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Dear Heavenly Father, you know our hearts and minds. Help us to fellowship and dig deep into Your word. Be with us as we prayerfully engage in dialog, tame our tongues and give us Your wisdom. We see through the glass dimly, help us be a light into this dark world. Lord thank you for the time you give each of us to spend with You. Lord May your love and peace surround all of us.in Jesus Holy name we pray, amen.

Ariel82 · Nov 30, 2016

Revelation chapter 1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

****

So background history..,written by the Apostle John on the island of patmos before the fall of the earthly temple.

What does it mean that John says that this prophecy must take place shortly or that the time is near?

Ariel82 · Nov 30, 2016

Present tense:

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
******
We are kings and priest NOW.

Ariel82 · Nov 30, 2016

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

***Future at the time it was written, but could it have been fulfilled already? It doesn't say Jesus will walk the Earth again but be upon the clouds. It doesn't say that "they who pierced him" will be dead when they behold him upon the clouds.

Reminds me of Stephen vision in Acts:

But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”

Ariel82 · Nov 30, 2016

I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ

***

It sounds like John and the ones he writes to are currently undergoing the tribulation period..,question is, are we still suffering too?

How much has been fulfilled and has yet to be fulfilled in Revelation?

I am going to read through and post questions I have always had and maybe folks can help.

p_rehbein · Nov 30, 2016

Oh...........this isn't what I was expecting when I read the Thread Title........

I was just gonna say that all I need to know about the future is WHO HOLDS the future.........guess that would not suffice in this instance.........oops

Ariel82 · Nov 30, 2016

p_rehbein said:

Nah that more than suffices.

Christ is the Rock upon which we stand, all else is but shifting sand. When it's all set to fire, what will be shown to be hay and what is gold will be revealed but if we build upon Christ, we will be saved despite our incomplete knowledge.

Joidevivre · Nov 30, 2016

I have heard so many different views of Revelation that I have concluded it is written so that we will recognize (when these things happen) the hand of God behind the happenings. And not worry. We will understand then.

And I like the words "He holds the future". Causing us to recognize that all will not be a rose garden (yet).

Ariel82 · Nov 30, 2016

Revelation 7
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb

.....

“These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

***** Sounds a lot like:

Revelation 21.

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 30, 2016

For a limited time---->>>>The Revelation - The Way

lastofall · Nov 30, 2016

[for me anyway] we ought not to be looking for what outcome it is for us too much:

"Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?" (Amos 5:18-20)

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 30, 2016

It means the prophecy John was given contained past, present (time is at hand) and future events. Many make the mistake in saying it is all fulfilled already, or that none of it is fulfilled yet, but is yet to be fulfilled in the future. Both these views are wrong. The words of the Lord are clear, the prophecy covers past, present and future events.....

Revelation 1:19
Write the things which thou hast seen,(past) and the things which are,(present) and the things which shall be hereafter;(future)

RickyZ · Nov 30, 2016

What is that old saying about history? It repeats itself.

God's word is eternal. It reverberates thru time. That is what is behind history repeating itself. One instance of fulfillment does not render it moot and silenced.

70 ad fulfilled a lot of prophecy. But there is a lot of prophecy that went unfulfilled (unless you're willing to stretch and twist reason like a rubber band).

What we see is prophecy echoing in time. With each reverberation it gets louder. And it will continue to do so until every ear hears.

The events of 70 ad foreshadow the magnified events to come. You cannot dismiss the events of 70 ad in the prophetic timeline. Nor can you let 70 ad dismiss the events to come. They are related, they are time based manifestations of a timeless word.

"As in the days of Noah" is the warning. God warned Noah to be prepared for what was to come.

Let us pray to be taken today. Let us also prepare to persevere tomorrow. Lest, when the heat is on, we wither and fall away like seed among the rocks.

God was, and is, and is to come.

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 30, 2016

Do you know what the clouds represent? The clouds are the great cloud of witnesses=the saints. Here are some scriptures....

In Revelation 1:7; “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

We are told in Isaiah 41:4; “Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.”

We are told in Acts 1:9-11; “And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

So who is this cloud that received Jesus, and what is this cloud that the Lord shall come with? We are given a clue to this mystery in Hebrews 12:1; “Therefore, seeing we also are compassed about by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,” This great cloud of witnesses are those saints who minister to the Truth in Christ, these are the children of the Light, and of the day.

Just as the Lord said he would guide his people by a pillar of cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night as seen in Exodus 13:21; “And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud to lead them the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, to go by day and night. We are shown these pillars and there coming down in Revelation 3:12; “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

They shall come in the name of the Lord. Matthew 23:39;“For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.” Revelation 19:12;
“His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.” Revelation 2:17;“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.”

Revelation 14:1
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. Revelation 14:3; “And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.”

Isaiah 51:11; “Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.
Isaiah 52:8; “Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.

Joel 3:16; “The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.” Romans 11:26; “And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”

Isaiah 42:13; “The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.” Jeremiah 25:30; “Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth.

2 Thessalonians 1:7; “And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,” Revelation 10:1; “And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:” Isaiah 60:8; “Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?”

Matthew 3:16; “And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:” Matthew 24:27; “For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

John 1:51; “And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.” Matthew 24:31; “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” Luke 10:2; “Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.

Zechariah 14:5; “And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

1 Thessalonians 3:13; “To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Ariel82 · Nov 30, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

I was thinking of this a few minutes ago...

What John refers to as past, is our past too.

His present is our past but may still apply to our present.

His future maybe our past, present or future.

It would be interesting to know the difference.

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 30, 2016

The glory of the Lord was in the cloud, the glory of God is the Lamb that illuminates his saints.

Exodus 16:10 “And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the Lord appeared in the cloud.”
Exodus 24:16 “And the glory of the Lord abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.”

Exodus 40:34 “Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.”

Exodus 40:35 “And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.”

Numbers 16:42 “And it came to pass, when the congregation was gathered against Moses and against Aaron, that they looked toward the tabernacle of the congregation: and, behold, the cloud covered it, and the glory of the Lord appeared.”

Isaiah 4:5 “And the Lord will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.”

Ezekiel 1:28 “As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.”

Ezekiel 10:4 “Then the glory of the Lord went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the Lord's glory.”
Mark 13:26 “And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.”
Luke 21:27 “And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”
Jesus Christ is the glory of God, and when Christ is revealed in you, you also shall see His glory.

Hebrews 1:3 “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:”

2 Corinthians 3:18 “But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”

2 Corinthians 4:6 “For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”

Colossians 1:27 “To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:”

Colossians 3:4 “When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”
2 Thessalonians 2:14 “Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

1 Peter 4:13-14 “But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.”

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 30, 2016

Here is a post I put together on that....

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...odliness-removed-every-eye-shall-see-him.html

Ariel82 · Nov 30, 2016

Wow..that is a lot of verses and I see how "cloud" can refer to a crowd of witness/believers. However, every instance of the word cloud might not have the same meaning.

For example the word Lion can refer to the Lion of Judah which is Christ or "Satan roams the Earth like a hungry lion".

I have always been simple in taking that cloud, meant cloud like we see in the sky. Will Jesus come also with all the saints who died preaching the Gospel? Probably.

It is an interesting point. Will have to pray and meditate upon the presented scriptures.

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 30, 2016

There are 2 parts to the tribulation period which began with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad. The first part is to the Jews which runs all the way to the fullness of the Gentiles, and then at the 6th seal begins God's wrath being poured out on the whole world. Here is a post I made on how the tribulation was first to the Jews .... http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/131991-time-jacobs-trouble.html

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 30, 2016

I believe we are coming up on the 6th seal events, here is a post I made on what has been fulfilled per Jesus words....

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/109318-prophecy-countdown-redemption.html

All i need to know about the future....

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