Anti-holiday people and their love affair with Alexander Hislop's Two Babylons

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Feb 1, 2014
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#1
Shake the anti-holiday crowd's tree and you will find Alexander Hislop and his book "Two Babylons" somewhere.

I recommend reading the book "Christmas Reconsidered", "Easter - Is it Pagan?", and "The Babylon Connection?" by Ralph Woodrow in regards to this. Also, "Three Days and Three Nights" is a good one in this regard.

Ralph Woodrow bought into all the anti-holiday stuff earlier in his ministry. Someone informed him about Alexander Hislop's poor reasoning skills and challenged his thinking. Ralph realized he was in error about the vast majority of anti-holiday teachings that he had perpetuated and wrote the above books to recant his former positions.

His writings have been used by Armstrongites through the years to bolster their anti-holiday teachings. If you are not familiar with Armstrongites, their teachings originate with the heretic Herbert Armstrong. There are a few Armstrongites on this forum who spread some of his teachings, so beware of them. Armstrongite organizations include Restored Church of God (David Pack), Philadelphia Church of God (Gerald Flurry), United Church of God, and Living Church of God.

These groups teach heretical doctrines such as claiming they will be fully god in the resurrection (like God the Father and Jesus Christ), denial of the Trinity, and denial of justification by faith alone. They teach that Christianity is a false faith and that they represent the true faith. Christians are considered to be teaching a false gospel, and believing in a false Christ. Armstrongites think that everyone else other than themselves are blinded spiritually, and that Armstrongites will rule over them in the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ.

I belonged to the Armstrongites for a decade as the son of an Armstrongite parent.

Anyways, if you are really concerned about the origins of Christmas and Easter, I'd highly suggest reading these books. While the anti-holiday teachings may have a grain of truth to them, there is a ton of distortion in their teachings, and a lot of the distortions are a direct result of Alexander Hislop and his slanders.

Hislop basically wrote his book to discredit the Roman Catholic church by attempting to relate it to the worship of Nimrod and his wife Semiramis, and their child Tammuz. The big issue with this thesis is that Nimrod and Semiramis likely lived in two different centuries. Therefore, how could they be husband and wife? Additionally, Hislop's description of Nimrod was blatantly racist, claiming he was a black hunch backed man.

Also, he used poor logic to connect one pagan god to another and then to Nimrod.

The logic was similar to this:

Robert wears a black shirt and blue jeans.
Bill wears a black shirt and khakis.
Jim wears a blue shirt and khakis.

Therefore, Robert is Jim.

So, Hislop uses similar logic to associate pagan gods across multiple cultures with Nimrod and Semiramis.

Another example is those who claim that Lent is a modern adaptation of "weeping for Tammuz". "Weeping for Tammuz" was an observance that happened in late summer, though, and cannot be associated with Lent, which occurs in early spring.

Those who teach such things may claim they never even heard of Hislop, but the origin can ultimately be traced back to him. Multiple "teachers" in the church have been affected by Hislop through the writings of Herbert Armstrong or Ralph Woodrow.

By the way, I won't take the time to argue with Armstrongites or Hebrew Roots Movement types (some of whom are affected by Armstrongites because some of the founders were former Armstrongites) who will challenge this post. Look up the facts for yourself if you care enough to. If not, believe their stuff. It's your life not mine. I dwelt in ignorance for a decade and believed National Enquirer - like cultic materials. :)

Have a merry Christmas :D

P.S. I am not Roman Catholic, and I attend a church affiliated with Evangelical Free Church of America. I do not promote Roman Catholicism, but nor do I slander them with juvenile propaganda like Hislop's writings or Armstrongite publications. My issues with them relate to justification by faith alone and sola Scriptura. I don't condescend to the level of National Enquirer ad hominem attacks but focus on core doctrinal issues in discussions I might have with a Roman Catholic. RLS.
 
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Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
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#2
.. Im not a armstrongite (idk if I got that right) nor am I Hebrew root and I dont practice at these days.. Are you now saying all of us who dont celebrate the holidays on a pagan day, rather not at all or after the jewish calendar, are of a cult and ignorant? Excuse me? Who are you to judge people according to their revelations?
Nor do I have a ''love relationship with them Babylonians''. You are degrading and judging people where you have no right.
Merry early Christmas to you too.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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.. Im not a armstrongite (idk if I got that right) nor am I Hebrew root and I dont practice at these days.. Are you now saying all of us who dont celebrate the holidays on a pagan day, rather not at all or after the jewish calendar, are of a cult and ignorant? Excuse me? Who are you to judge people according to their revelations?
Nor do I have a ''love relationship with them Babylonians''. You are degrading and judging people where you have no right.
Merry early Christmas to you too.
The pertinent question would be whether you look down on others who observe Christmas or Easter. Many from these groups consider observers to be, in essence, pagans.

If you look on other threads, you will find ample evidence that this is a prevailing sentiment amongst the anti-holiday crowd. Therefore, I am providing an evangelical response to them.

You're free to do what you want in terms of days or food. That's what Romans 14 is about. Many from these two groups would tell you otherwise, though, as days and foods are their primary measures as to whether a person is a faithful Christian or not.
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
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#4
I was present in many Holiday threads. I know the arguments of both sides. Its not on me to look down or up to judge anyone. Theres only one judge and that Jesus. Im not perfect so why should I take place to judge any actions of another? Only because I dont agree with everything and sometimes could facepalm, doesnt mean I will reject my brothers and sisters.

I was a witch until I came to the Lord. I know the pagan holidays and practices. So I am also well informed on the roots even before what is known through the bible. With that being said, anyone who can have a good concience these days. Go ahead. As long as no one tries to force me, ok. All I will do is I will not not talk about it as I dont want to be held accountable, some day of not saying anything, before the Lord.


The pertinent question would be whether you look down on others who observe Christmas or Easter. Many from these groups consider observers to be, in essence, pagans.

If you look on other threads, you will find ample evidence that this is a prevailing sentiment amongst the anti-holiday crowd. Therefore, I am providing an evangelical response to them.

You're free to do what you want. As I said above, I was an Armstrongite for over a decade so I am well informed in what they teach.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#5
I was present in many Holiday threads. I know the arguments of both sides. Its not on me to look down or up to judge anyone. Theres only one judge and that Jesus. Im not perfect so why should I take place to judge any actions of another? Only because I dont agree with everything and sometimes could facepalm, doesnt mean I will reject my brothers and sisters.

I was a witch until I came to the Lord. I know the pagan holidays and practices. So I am also well informed on the roots even before what is known through the bible. With that being said, anyone who can have a good concience these days. Go ahead. As long as no one tries to force me, ok. All I will do is I will not not talk about it as I dont want to be held accountable, some day of not saying anything, before the Lord.
OK so you don't like people judging, yet you are judging me and my post?

I have another rule..I don't debate little girls :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#6
OK so you don't like people judging, yet you are judging me and my post?

I have another rule..I don't debate little girls :)
wow dude, I did not see her judge you.

4 posts. and your already attacking people.. (little girl)

Consider yourself on report. I recommend you start reading things, and stop these attacks or you will not be here long
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
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#7
Your post is belittleing people and I brought it to your attention lol. But thats fine. I have rules too. I dont debate with people who close up and play age and gender cards. So God bless
1 Timothy 4:12
Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

OK so you don't like people judging, yet you are judging me and my post?

I have another rule..I don't debate little girls :)
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,860
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#8
I smell a self-righteous troll. :/
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
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#9
WHAT DEMI YOU DON'T LIKE DEAR SWEET LIL BABY JESUS!!!!!!!! HOW COULD YOU!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WERE NOT FRIENDS ANY MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JK LOL
 
M

missy2014

Guest
#10
OK so you don't like people judging, yet you are judging me and my post?

I have another rule..I don't debate little girls :)
lame . ...... satan plays the same cards lol
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
1,949
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#11
WHAT DEMI YOU DON'T LIKE DEAR SWEET LIL BABY JESUS!!!!!!!! HOW COULD YOU!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WERE NOT FRIENDS ANY MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JK LOL
lol! I knew you would betray me some day... Just I would have never thought youd let me go in holiday season.. shame on you! lol jk

lame . ...... satan plays the same cards lol
Yeah we kinda get used to it dont we lol! That was almost routine
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
57
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#14
lol! I knew you would betray me some day... Just I would have never thought youd let me go in holiday season.. shame on you! lol jk


Yeah we kinda get used to it dont we lol! That was almost routine
Christmas is perfect though, its the show of Christian culture, we take music, tv and other pop culture and Christ it all up, thats what we did to the pagan days, watch 20 years every one will call oct31 trunkortreat day lol
 
P

prodigal

Guest
#15
amazing, now the gang will turn up, maybe if posts were read properly in the first place then it wouldn't come to this every single time. the original post was about Armstrongites, which i personally agree with and we are called to call these people out, somehow that got turned into all who hold certain holidays sacred. and the first attack on an individual, to me seems:and i quote

'
Are you now saying all of us who dont celebrate the holidays on a pagan day, rather not at all or after the jewish calendar, are of a cult and ignorant? Excuse me? Who are you to judge people according to their revelations?

which isnt what was said at all..

so i recommend 1. to read the post properly and 2, dont join in attacking people just cos someone disagrees with your mate..

 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,243
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Tennessee
#16
OK so you don't like people judging, yet you are judging me and my post?

I have another rule..I don't debate little girls :)
There is no need to denigrate Demi. That was uncalled for. She is a valued member of the community with a mature way of thought and consideration for other and opposing points view.
 
M

missy2014

Guest
#17
1 Timothy 4:12
Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

if you were half the person demi is and paul was definitely a man of God and he taught timothy so gender age prejudice wasnt a thing for him people who really love the lord will teach the young and youth in humility and gentleness , with loving God the New testament bible says Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,916
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#18
It "appears" that he/she/it is spamming the forums, so...............use that info as you see fit......

wow dude, I did not see her judge you.

4 posts. and your already attacking people.. (little girl)

Consider yourself on report. I recommend you start reading things, and stop these attacks or you will not be here long
 
Jan 15, 2011
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#19
Christmas is perfect though, its the show of Christian culture, we take music, tv and other pop culture and Christ it all up, thats what we did to the pagan days, watch 20 years every one will call oct31 trunkortreat day lol
Except, this is the very thing that God asks us not to do :p
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#20
The original post was really good and much needed. Unfortunately, the rest of the thread went downhill from there.
 
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