a Message from Paul, KJV

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#1
(KJV) Romans 1:1-7 , Ephesians 2:8-10, 2corinthians 5:14-17,Romans 1:6-7, Romans 6:10-14, galatians 6:7-9,2 corinthians 5:9-11, TITUS 2:11-15, COLOSSIANS 3:5-11,


Paul, a SERVANT OF JESUS Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Which He had promised afore by his prophets in the Holy scriptures, Concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And DECLAREDTO BE THE SON OF GOD WITH POWER, ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS , by the resurrection from the dead: By whom WE have received *GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH AMONG ALL NATIONS, for HIS NAME: Among WHOM ARE YE ALSO THE CALLED OF JESUS Christ:
For BY *GRACE are ye saved THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, LEST any man should boast. For WE ARE his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS unto GOOD WORKS, which God hath before ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.


For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if ONE DIED FOR ALL, then were ALL DEAD: And that he died for all, that they which live should NOT HENCEFORTH LIVE UNTO THEMSELVES, but UNTO HIM which DIED FOR THEM, and ROSE AGAIN.
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the FLESH: yea, though we have known Christ after the FLESH, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore IF ANY MAN BE IN CHRIST, he is a NEW CREATURE: old things ARE PASSED AWAY; behold, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW.'


What shall we say then? SHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN, that grace may abound? GOD FORBID! How shall we, that are DEAD TO SIN, live ANY LONGER therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH? Therefore we are buried with him BY BAPTISM INTO DEATH: THAT LIKE AS Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, EVENSO WE ALSO SHOULD WALK in newness of life.....KNOWING THIS, that OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should NOT SERVE SIN. For he that is dead is FREED FROM SIN.


For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he LIVETH UNTO GOD. Likewise RECKON YE ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED UNTO SIN, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REING IN YOUR MORTAL BODY, THAT YE SHOULD OBEY IT in the lusts thereof. NEITHER YIELD YE your members as instruments of unrighteousness UNTO SIN: but YEILD YOURSELVES UNTO GOD, AS THOSE that are alive from the dead, and your members AS INSTRUMENTS of righteousness UNTO GOD. For SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."


What then? SHALL WE SIN, BECAUSE WE ARE not under the law, but UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID! Know ye not, that to whom ye YIELD YOURSELVES servants to obey, HIS SERVANTS YE ARE TO WHOM YE OBEY; whether of SIN UNTO DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but YE HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART that form of DOCTRINE which was DELIVERED TO YOU. Being then made FREE FROM SIN, YE BECAME THE SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.


BE NOT DECIEVED; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit REAP LIFE EVERLASTING. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, IF WE FAINT NOT.


Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. FOR WE MUST ALL APPEAR before the judgment seat of Christ; that EVERYONE MAY RECEIVE the things DONE in his body, ACCORDING TO that he hath DONE, whether it be GOOD OR BAD. Knowing therefore the TERROR OF THE LORD, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.


For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared TO ALL MEN, Teaching us that, DENYING ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, RIGHTEOUSLY, and GODLY, IN THE PRESENT WORLD; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself FOR US, that he might REDEEM US FROM ALL INIQUITY, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, ZEALOUS OF GOOD WORKS.
MORTIFY THEREFORE your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. BUT NOW YE ALSO PUT OFF ALL THESE; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off THE OLD MAN WITH HIS DEEDS; And have put on the new man, which is RENEWED IN KNOWLEDGE after the IMAGE OF HIM THAT CREATED him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is ALL, and IN ALL.


To Him Be glory forever and ever, Amen !
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,739
701
113
#3
(KJV) Romans 1:1-7 , Ephesians 2:8-10, 2corinthians 5:14-17,Romans 1:6-7, Romans 6:10-14, galatians 6:7-9,2 corinthians 5:9-11, TITUS 2:11-15, COLOSSIANS 3:5-11,


Paul, a SERVANT OF JESUS Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Which He had promised afore by his prophets in the Holy scriptures, Concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And DECLAREDTO BE THE SON OF GOD WITH POWER, ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS , by the resurrection from the dead: By whom WE have received *GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH AMONG ALL NATIONS, for HIS NAME: Among WHOM ARE YE ALSO THE CALLED OF JESUS Christ:
For BY *GRACE are ye saved THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, LEST any man should boast. For WE ARE his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS unto GOOD WORKS, which God hath before ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.


For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if ONE DIED FOR ALL, then were ALL DEAD: And that he died for all, that they which live should NOT HENCEFORTH LIVE UNTO THEMSELVES, but UNTO HIM which DIED FOR THEM, and ROSE AGAIN.
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the FLESH: yea, though we have known Christ after the FLESH, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore IF ANY MAN BE IN CHRIST, he is a NEW CREATURE: old things ARE PASSED AWAY; behold, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW.'


What shall we say then? SHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN, that grace may abound? GOD FORBID! How shall we, that are DEAD TO SIN, live ANY LONGER therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH? Therefore we are buried with him BY BAPTISM INTO DEATH: THAT LIKE AS Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, EVENSO WE ALSO SHOULD WALK in newness of life.....KNOWING THIS, that OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should NOT SERVE SIN. For he that is dead is FREED FROM SIN.


For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he LIVETH UNTO GOD. Likewise RECKON YE ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED UNTO SIN, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REING IN YOUR MORTAL BODY, THAT YE SHOULD OBEY IT in the lusts thereof. NEITHER YIELD YE your members as instruments of unrighteousness UNTO SIN: but YEILD YOURSELVES UNTO GOD, AS THOSE that are alive from the dead, and your members AS INSTRUMENTS of righteousness UNTO GOD. For SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."


What then? SHALL WE SIN, BECAUSE WE ARE not under the law, but UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID! Know ye not, that to whom ye YIELD YOURSELVES servants to obey, HIS SERVANTS YE ARE TO WHOM YE OBEY; whether of SIN UNTO DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but YE HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART that form of DOCTRINE which was DELIVERED TO YOU. Being then made FREE FROM SIN, YE BECAME THE SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.


BE NOT DECIEVED; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit REAP LIFE EVERLASTING. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, IF WE FAINT NOT.


Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. FOR WE MUST ALL APPEAR before the judgment seat of Christ; that EVERYONE MAY RECEIVE the things DONE in his body, ACCORDING TO that he hath DONE, whether it be GOOD OR BAD. Knowing therefore the TERROR OF THE LORD, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.


For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared TO ALL MEN, Teaching us that, DENYING ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, RIGHTEOUSLY, and GODLY, IN THE PRESENT WORLD; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself FOR US, that he might REDEEM US FROM ALL INIQUITY, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, ZEALOUS OF GOOD WORKS.
MORTIFY THEREFORE your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. BUT NOW YE ALSO PUT OFF ALL THESE; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off THE OLD MAN WITH HIS DEEDS; And have put on the new man, which is RENEWED IN KNOWLEDGE after the IMAGE OF HIM THAT CREATED him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is ALL, and IN ALL.


To Him Be glory forever and ever, Amen !
Amen and Amen!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,614
3,529
113
#4
(KJV)
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. FOR WE MUST ALL APPEAR before the judgment seat of Christ; that EVERYONE MAY RECEIVE the things DONE in his body, ACCORDING TO that he hath DONE, whether it be GOOD OR BAD. Knowing therefore the TERROR OF THE LORD, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
Here's the reason of our labor, our work in the Lord...all those in Christ will be judged at the JSOC according to our works. This is not for salvation, but rather for rewards or loss of rewards. See 1 Corinthians 3. Man's obedience to the work of the Lord has nothing to do with salvation, but every thing to do with rewards.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#5
Ahh good read indeed :)
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#6
Here's the reason of our labor, our work in the Lord...all those in Christ will be judged at the JSOC according to our works. This is not for salvation, but rather for rewards or loss of rewards. See 1 Corinthians 3. Man's obedience to the work of the Lord has nothing to do with salvation, but every thing to do with rewards.
Actually, our labor in the Lord is the fruit we produce to remain (abide) in Christ, the vine. We don't gain salvation by them, we keep our salvation by them. "Grace alone" works against "abiding" in Christ by faith, tricking those who received salvation in Christ to give it away. A very simple parable with a single meaning.

  • We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, meaning the just shall live by faith all of his life.
  • Fruitless christians lose salvation because faith without works is dead.
  • "Grace alone" folks lose their salvation because they believe once they believe "one time" to receive Christ, they are irrevocably saved regardless. In other words, faith after the first belief is no longer required. That's heresy.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#7
Actually, our labor in the Lord is the fruit we produce to remain (abide) in Christ, the vine. We don't gain salvation by them, we keep our salvation by them. "Grace alone" works against "abiding" in Christ by faith, tricking those who received salvation in Christ to give it away. A very simple parable with a single meaning.

  • We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, meaning the just shall live by faith all of his life.
  • Fruitless christians lose salvation because faith without works is dead.
  • "Grace alone" folks lose their salvation because they believe once they believe "one time" to receive Christ, they are irrevocably saved regardless. In other words, faith after the first belief is no longer required. That's heresy.
Again, that is just all wrong. All of it. We don't produce fruit to remain in Christ. We don't produce the fruit of the Spirit, He does, it's HIS fruit. And we bear the fruit that the Spirit produces because we are abiding in Christ.

And the rest is just more of your attacks upon the grace of God. Sad really.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,614
3,529
113
#8
Actually, our labor in the Lord is the fruit we produce to remain (abide) in Christ, the vine. We don't gain salvation by them, we keep our salvation by them. "Grace alone" works against "abiding" in Christ by faith, tricking those who received salvation in Christ to give it away. A very simple parable with a single meaning.

  • We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, meaning the just shall live by faith all of his life.
  • Fruitless christians lose salvation because faith without works is dead.
  • "Grace alone" folks lose their salvation because they believe once they believe "one time" to receive Christ, they are irrevocably saved regardless. In other words, faith after the first belief is no longer required. That's heresy.
Failure to rightly divide the word of truth. You trying to fit kingdom doctrine for Israel into the body of Christ Church Age doctrine. It doesn't fit. Look to the Apostle Paul as our example to follow for Church Doctrine. I am justified by the faith of Jesus Christ, not my individual faith.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#9
Failure to rightly divide the word of truth. You trying to fit kingdom doctrine for Israel into the body of Christ Church Age doctrine. It doesn't fit. Look to the Apostle Paul as our example to follow for Church Doctrine. I am justified by the faith of Jesus Christ, not my individual faith.
You BOTH are wrong..... Jesus' teaching is Kingdom teaching for the church, not the Jew only. Your statements cannot be proven with scripture. And I don't want to hear no one-verse wonders twisted to no end, either.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#10
Hebrews 12:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing,
that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.


 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,614
3,529
113
#11
You BOTH are wrong..... Jesus' teaching is Kingdom teaching for the church, not the Jew only. Your statements cannot be proven with scripture. And I don't want to hear no one-verse wonders twisted to no end, either.
When did the Church begin? After the death of the testator, Jesus Christ, not anytime before.

Hebrews 9
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#12
When did the Church begin? After the death of the testator, Jesus Christ, not anytime before.

Hebrews 9
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
When did the Kingdom of God begin?!? Heb 9 doesn't apply to the Kingdom of God
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#13
Here's the reason of our labor, our work in the Lord...all those in Christ will be judged at the JSOC according to our works. This is not for salvation, but rather for rewards or loss of rewards. See 1 Corinthians 3. Man's obedience to the work of the Lord has nothing to do with salvation, but every thing to do with rewards.
naw its about eternal life, show me where the dcotrine that says it isnt and Ill show you 3 diofferent places where it is clearly eternal Life at stake. the things we do now hab=ving been proivided all this, above all freedom from Sin, through the power of God. No longer being those who serve sin, but those who dies with Jesus Christ to sin and death. look at everything paul says rather than bits and peices. His letters are not a bunch of random points, they are repetition regarding what you are saying, based on what Jesus taught about His judgement seat

matthew 25:31-46 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did itnot to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

what we do having received Gods Love through the sacrifice of Jesus, matters unto salvation, its not all finished works, there is MUCH now that we are commanded By God through Jesus to learn, and actually do, there are also very very clear warnings of those who refuse to do the things commanded By Jesus. not moses mind you thats old covenant, but the commands of Jesus who is the Lord of anyone who turns to Him, and Jesus makes clear to hear and not do is death, to hear and do is Life.



"For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that SOWETH TO the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap LIFE EVERLASTING. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

ephesians 5:1-7 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath ANY inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh THE WRATH OF GOD UPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them."

were not saved by works of the LAW OF MOSES, nor are we condemned by THE LAW OF MOSES, we follow the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE. The Gospel of Jesus, the grace that teaches us repentance and righteousness. If we do not follow the Law of the spirit, Given By Jesus Christ there is no eternal Life, because it is those who follow the spirit, that are included IN CHRIST. Eternal Life, comes only because Jesus told us about it, that promise cannot be attained through the levitical preishood which established, and was established by the mosaic Law. those things have passed now, that is the Old order of things. we having been sinners, are now forgiven for the sins we commited befoprehand as paul puts it " our old life, our old man with his deeds" there are no " works of the Law" found of value in the new. it is not work to believe Jesus and His words, it is rather, freedom, Life and spirit to believe the Word, the commands the teachings of the Christ whos name is Jesus. The Christ is the annopinted who was promised long ago world Give the world the true doctrine of God, in order to understand anything in scripture we have to first and foremost believe everything Jesus said because all the rest is a testimony of Jesus.

to those with thier hope in moses he said. john 5:39- 47"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41I receive not honour from men. 42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is ONE THAT ACCUSETH YOU, EVEN MOSES, in whom YE trust. 46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he WROTE OF ME 47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe MY WORDS?"

Our hope is not in moses. It is in JESUS everything the apostles wrote is like the ot that came after the law, it is a testimony of the covenant established. there is no truth to the idea that we do not believe and follow everything Jesus said to actually do. there is also no truth to the thought that His Kingdom is different than the way He gave it. if he tells of JUDGEMENT and He does, then that is how we are to understand judgement. we will each be judged by what we do according to the knowedge of Jesus Christ, not that which we did before Him, but when He comes to us, we have a Lord who commands us, very simple






 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#14
When did the Kingdom of God begin?!? Heb 9 doesn't apply to the Kingdom of God
everything written applies to the Kingdom when it is understood through the Kings doctrine, everythoing is for OUR Learning. not thier learning.the old is even for us in the new, to learn of God, and understand His Kingdom that came the Moment Jesus said " Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand." remember all the teachings that the Kingdom is like a seed ? Jesus is that seed. His words seeds that grow in us, our Knowledge of His Life, death aresurrection, but just as much Hos words, teachings and the commands of God that came through Him. The book of Hebrews is a vas wealth of Knowledge pertaining to the Kingdoms difference from the first covenant. OF COURSE the grace lens distorts any scripture, but when we look through the :lens: that Jesus creates, then we are able to study in the Light provided By God.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#15
Hebrews 12:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Perfecter implies an ongoing process. If this wasn't so, & we were already made totally mature, this wouldn't need to be written.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV) [SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

That faith in the Son of God is continuous, not a one-time thing. The just shall live (continously)by faith.
Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

A continuous process.....again, not a one-time thing.
Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing,
that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
When is the day of Christ? Because it hasn't came yet, the good work Jesus began goes on. Because it shows He began it, it isn't finished yet & we need to continue living by faith to keep that which we possess.

Because we're saved by Grace through faith, the Through faith part must continue. "Through faith" is an ongoing process that isn't fulfilled until we pass away or are raptured.

Mark 13:
12“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. 13“You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Matthew 24:
12“Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13
But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

This was written before Jesus' death, but that has no bearing on it.


Do we simply throw everything Jesus said before He died? Pure foolishness!



 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#16
When did the Church begin? After the death of the testator, Jesus Christ, not anytime before.

Hebrews 9
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
lol read all the verses around that, where do we learn Jesus WILL ? in His words haha so consider Just your verses, when Jesus died having given all the commands of the new covenant, they were put into effect BY HIS DEATH. His death doesnt eliminate His words it verifies them. thats why your verses are followed up with the example of the law and moses and the sprinkling of blood that puts the covenant into effect look

18-22 "Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."

even the fisrt covenant wasnt in effect until moses gave all the commands, and then sprinjkled the blood. SAME THING happened with the new, Jesus Gave all the commands of the new covenant and then shed His blood to seal those things eternally, the true and heavenly things understood by the copy beforehand the first covenant. Hebrews is a constant contrast between the old and new, it is showing how the old is a copy of what the new is. the whole law is this way, and the prophets, and even the apostles are only teaching us about Jesus the prophets beforehand, the apostles after. Lok at the first paragraphs of each chapter in hebrews its establishing clarity that the old covenant has ended with the death of Jesus, and the new has been sealed by the same death. the 2 testimonies of the covenant the first came through moses, was entrusted to the prophets. the new and eternal came through Jesus, and was entrusted to the apostles. no matter what argument you come up with dopesnt matter. even if i say ok, Jesus death...everything after is what matters like yu think

Jesus said THIS AFTER HIS DEATH

matthew 28:18-20 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

so then your point is EVERYTHING after Jesus death ? that STILL validates all of His words of teaching and command. there is NO possibility to omit what Jesus says of things and claim salvation, that is not possible, AND i do not understand all the effort in the church TO somehow come up with a way to disregard Jesus the Lord and Saviors words. He says it will not save unless we do the things He taught, hes the one to trust and believe
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#17
We just don't throw out the very clear finished work of Christ for our life and living. We can trust Him - if He says He will perfect it - then let's be Christians and believe Him.

We are born-again of incorruptible seed - We are safe with Christ when we belong to Him.

There is "no working" for salvation as in going to heaven. Jesus sacrifice was more than enough.

There are warnings about not following the works of the flesh - like malice for others in the body of Christ , slandering others in the body of Christ or sexual immorality. These all cause destruction in different forms to us while living in this earth.

1 Peter 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

Jesus started it and He will finish it. We can trust Him. He loves us dearly and we are 100% safe in Him for all eternity.

Here is what the Greek says about Heb. 12:2 and Jesus being the "finisher, or accomplisher of faith"..it's exciting to know that God is not a liar and that we can completely trust Him.

Let's teach our fellow brethren to trust in what our Lord has already done and that He will do what He said He will do.


4899. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]τελειωτής[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]teleiōtēs[/FONT] noun

Finisher, accomplisher.

1 place in NT - Hebrews 12:2


Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Sigma-Omega.
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#18
Perfecter implies an ongoing process. If this wasn't so, & we were already made totally mature, this wouldn't need to be written.
That faith in the Son of God is continuous, not a one-time thing. The just shall live (continously)by faith.
A continuous process.....again, not a one-time thing. When is the day of Christ? Because it hasn't came yet, the good work Jesus began goes on. Because it shows He began it, it isn't finished yet & we need to continue living by faith to keep that which we possess.

Because we're saved by Grace through faith, the Through faith part must continue. "Through faith" is an ongoing process that isn't fulfilled until we pass away or are raptured.

Mark 13:
12“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. 13“You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Matthew 24:
12“Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13
But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

This was written before Jesus' death, but that has no bearing on it.


Do we simply throw everything Jesus said before He died? Pure foolishness!



Do we simply throw everything Jesus said before He died? Pure foolishness!

this is the goal of modern false doctrines, not everything, Just anything that doesnt agree with lawless grace or " grace without any law" like you stephen i understand that we who have a Lord named Jesus, are to learn and obey Him with all our heart and that is where salvation is found, those who deny His words as some do will be judged by all those words they omitted and denied from the Lord Himself.

john 12:48-50 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."

but for ten months or so ive watched them omit His truth time and again and yet call Him Lord, TO ME anyone working to deny Jesus falls into this catagory

1 timothy 6:3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself."

 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#20
Do we simply throw everything Jesus said before He died? Pure foolishness!

this is the goal of modern false doctrines, not everything, Just anything that doesnt agree with lawless grace or " grace without any law" like you stephen i understand that we who have a Lord named Jesus, are to learn and obey Him with all our heart and that is where salvation is found, those who deny His words as some do will be judged by all those words they omitted and denied from the Lord Himself.

john 12:48-50 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."

but for ten months or so ive watched them omit His truth time and again and yet call Him Lord, TO ME anyone working to deny Jesus falls into this catagory

1 timothy 6:3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself."

Oh the irony of someone who preaches a false doctrine that denies Jesus is God would be accusing "others" of having false doctrine. :rolleyes: