God means for all His Saints to be sinless

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sinnomorePTL

Guest
#1
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 16-17 KJV 1611

I know a word appears to be misspelled, but it is an old copy, and I am not about to change it, I'm funny that way.

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
I pray that you are all healed physically, mentally and Spiritually. I pray that you are filled with peace, joy and tranquility
in Jesus holy name, Amen

brother gary
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#2
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 16-17 KJV 1611

I know a word appears to be misspelled, but it is an old copy, and I am not about to change it, I'm funny that way.

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
I pray that you are all healed physically, mentally and Spiritually. I pray that you are filled with peace, joy and tranquility
in Jesus holy name, Amen

brother gary
I fail to see the "sinless" from your title in your post.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#3
Interesting word sinless. Sin less?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,177
2,539
113
#6
sinless that word leaves a sour taste in my mouth because as much as I try I can never be sinless and the sinless doctrine is what made that word foul to me. I was a victim of the sinless doctrine in my second year of faith I was at church and it was the only church I was able to go to and the pastor had a particular interest me but the thing is he was a firm believer of the sinless doctrine I was not because i sinned no matter how hard I tried.

He pummeled into my mind that i was not saved because I sinned I even got to the point where I feared I was going to hell and so I tried even harder not to sin and yet screwed up I just knew I was going to hell. It wasn't until I had a dream of seeing the face of Jesus that I was rescued. I saw his eyes they were not eyes of wrath and judgement and they seem to speak what they saw using no voice or words. In those brilliant shining blue eyes I saw he saw me in deep love I felt the warmth of his care I saw a mirror and saw myself I saw what I saw in my eyes and I was covered in grim and filth I saw a disgusting sinner but then suddenly it's as if i heard a voice saw now look through my eyes.

Suddenly the image changed i was so clean that I was shining I wore a crown wore royal robes and held a royal scepter and I saw myself bawling in my reflection because this was not what I was lead to believe.

So for anyone who teaches preaches or believes in the sinless doctrine consider my story and consider the damage you cause by teaching this doctrine, btw I tried to kill myself because I believed what this pastor taught me but luckily Jesus showed the truth.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#7
sinless that word leaves a sour taste in my mouth because as much as I try I can never be sinless and the sinless doctrine is what made that word foul to me.
If the word leaves a sour taste in your mouth then that must be were it originates from.

So is Jesus sinless or is he a sinner like everyone else? Just because one doesn't sin doesn't mean they don't make errors or have some personal faults.



Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2 Cor 13:5
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
113
58
#8
Christians are not SINLESS (1 John 1:8-10) but they should SIN LESS.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
#9
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 16-17 KJV 1611

I know a word appears to be misspelled, but it is an old copy, and I am not about to change it, I'm funny that way.

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
I pray that you are all healed physically, mentally and Spiritually. I pray that you are filled with peace, joy and tranquility
in Jesus holy name, Amen

brother gary
All things are possible through Jesus Christ, which is our Strength and Power to overcome EVERY temptation that comes upon the Saints.

Of course God wants us to to become sinless, That is why Jesus plainly told a man and woman to "Go and sin no more", not to mention the entire Bible teaches us HOW not to sin.
God wants the Saints to become sinless, to say otherwise is to say that God wants us to sin.

That is why we are to look to Jesus for help with every temptation that comes upon us to commit sin. It is through Jesus Christ that we can overcome EVERY temptation. But not this generation. This generation would rather continue to live in sin, continue to willingly and knowingly commit sins, and still think they are Heaven Bound, much weeping and gnashing of teeth from those who think they can continue to obey satan's temptation, and still think they covered by His Blood. Who are they that are covered by His Blood according to the Word of God?

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him,(Saved) and walk in darkness,(Willfully commit sin) we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if (Conditional) we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

When does the Blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin? When we walk in the light, NOT continue to walk in darkness. Your Master is to whom you obey, as it is written. If then you are tempted to commit sin. Jesus is saying "Don't do it, you know it is sinful and wrong, please don't do it" and satan is saying "Do it, it's just one sin, just ask for forgiveness afterwards, all will be fine, and you are still going to go to Heaven, besides it's not possible to Go and Sin no more, so your good, listen to me, you'll be fine" Who you CHOOSE to obey, is indeed your Master. You either get sin out of your life NOW, before it is to late, or continue to live in sin, making excuses for them, the Choice is yours to make.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
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#10
Preach and teach the grace of God that is in Christ alone because it is the only thing that "teaches" us how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly and righteously in this world. Titus 2:11-12

"If" in 1 John 1:7 is a statement of fact. Why would we need the blood of Jesus to continually cleanse us of all sin if there was no sin to begin with?

The same way as this statement is - "If you went to the bank then give me my 100 bucks you owe me." The person did go to the bank and because he did go to the bank - the other person gets their money.


Believers are in the light 24/7. Walking means a sphere of where one lives and moves about....where they tread with their feet as they go about life. In the light is a "position" that we are in because we are in Christ.


Believers are definitely in the light. The scriptures are clear on this. We do not go in and out of being in the light to being in darkness because one sins. We are giving in to the flesh to fulfill "its" desires when one sins. Romans 6:13

Let's learn to rely on the grace of Christ and walk by the Spirit so that we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Religion has this backwards - they say - "Don't do the lusts of the flesh and you will be walking by the Spirit". It is the complete opposite.

The same as we don't go from being a sheep when we sin to being a goat...and then when we don't do that particular sin again ( for however long that would be? ) - we go back to being a sheep again.

Ephesians 5:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light ( we should be walking out who we are in the light..but it's through Him we do that. He bears His fruit on us - the branches )

Colossians 1:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of
the saints in Light.

1 Thessalonians 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,171
113
#11
Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. I grew up knowing I was lost because I tried and tried not to sin and I could never stop sinning it seemed so when my other friends would say they were saved I thought well good for you because I'm lost. This perfect, sinless teaching without explanation is harmful to young and older minds....

I was in and out of church because of feeling like a sinning hypocrite cause I couldn't get it right and kept on sinning.

So as I cried out to God at the age of 56 I said I'm not good enough and I will never be good enough - His answer was you're right Darlene you will never be good enough. That's why My Son Jesus died for your sins - so that when you ask for forgiveness and repent I no longer look at the wrongs you have committed but I look at the perfect life of My Son as His blood covers your sins. I said it is that simple and the answer was Yes.... I started bawling like a baby because I was saved.

What can wash away my sins.... Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,171
113
#12
Now does God leave us in our sins... No, He sends His Holy Spirit to live in us and teach us the way so that when we slip and fall we ask for forgiveness and keep walking with God learning to turn away from sin. It is the work of a lifetime living with God's Spirit showing us the way.

PS don't think we ever arrive until we get through the pearly gates and this earth is done. This is the sanctification process.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#13
What I have found that is missing from most teachings, is the fact that we are born of God into our humanity. Its the very fact that we are human that we miss the mark. Not that we sin but what we are.

Well that is wiped out so to speak when we are born from above. If we know what is above? Then we can walk like it.

Wont find that in religion or religious teachers, teachings. Blain has found the truth. The love of God towards us in our weakness, not in human strength. That will keep us separated from God.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
#14
Preach and teach the grace of God that is in Christ alone because it is the only thing that "teaches" us how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly and righteously in this world. Titus 2:11-12


Scriptures teach us how to live righteously and how to deny ungodliness, as also Scriptures teach.

"If" in 1 John 1:7 is a statement of fact. Why would we need the blood of Jesus to continually cleanse us of all sin if there was no sin to begin with?
Scriptures are FACT, and they teach IF we walk in the light as Jesus did, then we are cleansed by His Blood.

The same way as this statement is - "If you went to the bank then give me my 100 bucks you owe me." The person did go to the bank and because he did go to the bank - the other person gets their money.
IF, is still conditional. IF he did not go to the bank, the other person gets no money. If you walk in the light, the Blood of Jesus cleanseth you, if you do not walk in the light, His Blood does not cleanse you. If you have been cleansed before, and choose to walk in darkness, you are no longer cleansed, that is why Scriptures refer to those as pigs wallering in the mire and the dog returning to its own vomit (2Pet2:22)


Believers are in the light 24/7
. Walking means a sphere of where one lives and moves about....where they tread with their feet as they go about life. In the light is a "position" that we are in because we are in Christ.
Those who are in the light, do not do that which is considered darkness. Those who walk in the light are NOT walking in darkness. "IF we walk in the light" is a choice one makes, it is not automatic like you are implying. satan believes Jesus is the Son of God, does that mean satan is in the light too? Just because a person believes does not mean all their actions and deeds are now considered LIGHT, Good, Just, Righteous. Jesus is light. satan is darkness. To claim that a person is walking in Jesus all they while they knowingly and willingly obey satan (darkness) is still walking in the light. Can i rape someone and still be in the light? Can i fornicate and still be in the light? Can i molest a child and still be in the light? Can i look at pornography and still be in the light?
What then? According to you if i believe in Jesus i am automatically walking in the light 24/7 like you say. That would mean i could lie, cheat, steal, rape, molest, kill, use drugs, watch porn, join orgies, use people, abuse people, and because i believe in Jesus, that He is the Son of God, i am still walking in the light as you teach. You do greatly error, not knowing or understanding the Truth of Scriptures. Those who walk in the light, DO NOT walk in darkness. Those who choose to live in sin (obeying satan continually) walk in darkness even now and not in the light. You do greatly error thinking that a person can do wicked evil things (darkness) and still be walking in the light 24/7 because they merely believe. Faith only is dead. Believing ONLY is dead. Faith and Works go hand in hand. Works = Love One Another. If i rape someone, how have i loved them? that work is evil, it is darkness. Are you saying that all those who believe are incapable of doing that which is darkness? You do error.


Believers are definitely in the light
. The scriptures are clear on this.
If they are clear on this, where are the Scriptures? Where in all of Scriptures does it teach if one is in the light, they can't possibly walk in darkness?

Mat_6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Are you saying that anyone who believes CAN'T have an eye that is evil? If then a believer has an evil eye, are they still walking in the light as you say they are? Scriptures are True, Anyone (believer or otherwise) has an eye that is evil, shall be full of darkness NOT LIGHT.

Luk_11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
Luk_11:35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
Luk_11:36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light
.

Even Scriptures teach you are only in the light, IF you have no part darkness in you. Believing is NOT enough as this world teaches.

We do not go in and out of being in the light to being in darkness because one sins. We are giving in to the flesh to fulfill "its" desires when one sins. Romans 6:13
So your saying if a person claims to walk in the light (believer) they can obey their flesh and its desires, and that is not darkness, that they are still in the light? So then a Christian Believer who molests someone continually is only sinning because of their flesh, but they are still in the light because they are a believer? Are you hearing this? The teaching you believe in is faulty, it is not the TRUTH. Those who walk in the light live in the light, those who walk in darkness live in the darkness. You either obey light or you obey darkness? You either obey Jesus or you obey satan. It is impossible to have two masters, you can't obey Jesus and satan. Those who walk in the light, obey Jesus. Those who walk in darkness obey satan.
Now if you cease to do that which is darkness, and repent of that darkness, and never do that darkness again, then you are indeed walking in the light, back into His Grace, and He will forgive you. But if you continue to walk in darkness, even though you continually repent of it, how are you Truly repentant? and therefore not forgiven, but walking in darkness all the while proclaiming with your mouth, you are walking in the light, when you deeds PROVE otherwise. If you choose to hearken to that false doctrine, that you can do whatever you want to do and still go to Heaven because you believe, then you will be one of those who weep and gnash their teeth when you are not taken up with Him. But here is the Good News, now you know the TRUTH you can stop walking in darkness and start walking in the light, like Jesus did, and He will help you. Or continue to walk in darkness claiming you are in the light because you are a believer. What am i saying? Stop obeying satan and start obeying Jesus and therefore start walking in the light. Am i evil because i teach stop doing evil? Am i evil because i teach start obeying Jesus ONLY?

Let's learn to rely on the grace of Christ and walk by the Spirit so that we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Religion has this backwards - they say - "Don't do the lusts of the flesh and you will be walking by the Spirit". It is the complete opposite.
True, walking by the Spirit is walking in the light. But those who do obey the flesh are not walking by the Spirit are they? And therefore not walking in the light either. So just because someone claims to Believe, is NOT enough, your actions prove what you believe. If a person is being led by the Spirit their actions will prove it (Namely they will Love One Another). If they are being led by their flesh and NOT the Spirit, their actions will prove it (Namely they will knowingly and willingly commit sins and not cease from them)

The same as we don't go from being a sheep when we sin to being a goat...and then when we don't do that particular sin again ( for however long that would be? ) - we go back to being a sheep again.
Come Judgment Day, you will either be a sheep or a goat. If you are Loving One Another then you will be deemed a sheep. If you are NOT Loving One Another, regardless what you claim with your mouth or what you believe, you will be deemed a goat. PERIOD. If you are Loving One Another, you are walking in the light, you are a sheep. If you are NOT Loving One Another, you are walking in darkness, you are a goat.

Ephesians 5:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light ( we should be walking out who we are in the light..but it's through Him we do that. He bears His fruit on us - the branches )
If Walking in the light is automatic 24/7 because you Believe, why are we instructed in the above verse to WALK as children of Light? Think about it, if once you believe you are in the light 24/7 like you believe, then why are we instructed to walk as children of light? If no matter what you do you are still in the light 24/7 why instruct us to walk as children of light? When that is automatic any ways according to you? Nay, we are instructed to walk as children of light, because that is something we need to continue to do, be diligent to continue to walk in the light. To continue to walk in the light because we are children of light (Believers) But anyone who chooses to walk in darkness, fails to walk as children of Light. Those who walk in the light do that which is Good. Those who walk in darkness do that which is evil. You can't be both Light and Darkness. You are either one or the other. You are either a Good Tree or a bad one. You can have 99% good fruit, but it is that 1% bad fruit that makes you a bad tree. Those who walk in the light are being led by the Spirit, that is to say they obey the Spirit and not their flesh, not satan's temptation, not demons, not the world, not from others, not false doctrines.

Colossians 1:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.


Who is "us" but those who Love One Another. Those who don't Love One Another, even though they may have been qualified before, are not a part of the "us"

1 Thessalonians 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
No True Christian is of the night, or of the darkness, All True Christians are Sons of Light and sons of Day. But if that same person turns from the light to practice that which they know full well is darkness, they are no longer walking in the light are they, they have freely chosen to walk in darkness, they failed to look to Christ for His Power and Strength, they have failed to hearken to the Spirit who is trying to lead them. You know what spirit i am referring to, the one who tells you when you are being tempted to commit sin, NOT TO DO IT. If you were being led by that Spirit, you would obey that Spirit. Those who continue to do that which is darkness are even now in darkness, and it does not matter what they claim with their mouths "I'm Saved", "I'm under Grace", "I'm under the Blood", or "Once Saved Always Saved" or whatever else they can come up with so as long as they don't have to cease from SINNING.

Which is easier when you are tempted to commit sin: Look to Jesus for help, pray, read the Bible, NOT commit that sin. OR Go ahead and commit that sin and repent afterwards all the while thinking you are still Heaven bound?


^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
#15
Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.
What a strange thing for the Word of God to teach us to do, if it is not possible to do. Scriptures teach it is possible through Jesus Christ. The world teaches it is not possible.

I grew up knowing I was lost because I tried and tried not to sin and I could never stop sinning it seemed so when my other friends would say they were saved I thought well good for you because I'm lost. This perfect, sinless teaching without explanation is harmful to young and older minds....
Harmful, How so? How is teaching stop obeying satan, start obeying ONLY God, is harmful?

I was in and out of church because of feeling like a sinning hypocrite cause I couldn't get it right and kept on sinning.
So you could not get rid of the sin that so easily besets you.

Heb_12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
,

So since you came to the conclusion you were not going to give it up, and were tired of feeling convicted by it, you had to come up with something else to make it OK? correct? So the false teaching that tickled your ears was what you now believe correct? That you can continue to commit sin without ceasing from them and still go to Heaven? Is that the doctrine you now believe in?

So as I cried out to God at the age of 56 I said I'm not good enough and I will never be good enough - His answer was you're right Darlene you will never be good enough. That's why My Son Jesus died for your sins - so that when you ask for forgiveness and repent I no longer look at the wrongs you have committed but I look at the perfect life of My Son as His blood covers your sins. I said it is that simple and the answer was Yes.... I started bawling like a baby because I was saved.
Tell me, if a man beats his wife and repents of it, then again beats his wife and repents of it, and he beats his wife every night, and again he repents of it. How sorry is he for beating his wife? A person is Truly repentant, when they repent and CEASE to ever do it again, else they are not sorry for it. A person who fornicates but afterwards he repents of it, but he continues to fornicate and continues to repent, he never ceases to fornicate, but after each time he repents of it. Now Scriptures plainly teach no fornicator will enter into the Kingdom of God, is this man judged a fornicator on Judgement Day? Are you saying he is not a fornicator even though he continually fornicated?

If a person commits a sin and the TRULY repent of it, they will cease to ever do that sin again, ONLY then is forgiveness granted to that person, because as long that they continue to commit that sin, they are NOT sorry, even though they repent with their mouths, they are not sorry and it is evident they are not sorry because they continue to do the very thing they ask forgiveness for. True repentance is given for a sin, when a person repents of it and CEASES from doing it again. If a person repents of a particular sin, KNOWING full well they will continue to do it again, does not receive forgiveness, because they are not Truly sorry, they have not Truly repented of that sin.

What can wash away my sins.... Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Scriptures are CLEAR who are washed by His Blood.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

When? When do we have fellowship with Him and He cleanseth us from all sin, When we walk in the light NOT in darkness.

All things are possible through Christ which Strengthens us. There is no sin that you do that you can't possibly cease from. If you think there is a sin that is impossible to cease from then name it here.

Narrow and difficult is the path that leads to life everlasting. If that path you think is easy and not difficult, i assure you that you are on the broad and wide path that leads to destruction.

Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.
What a strange thing for the Word of God to teach us to do, if it is not possible to do. Scriptures teach it is possible through Jesus Christ. The world teaches it is not possible. Believe Scriptures which teach it is possible. Those who are lost will remain lost. Those who try to cease from sinning through their own power and their own strength will never be able to do so, that is impossible, as you can testify to. But with the Power and Strength of Jesus Christ there is no sin so powerful that you can't overcome it, not one. There is NO sin that a person does that they can't possibly cease from if they look to Jesus for help with it.

Every single message to the 7 Churches in revelations was to the Saints that OVERCAME. this generation better start overcoming certain things in their life or their will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
#16
Now does God leave us in our sins... No, He sends His Holy Spirit to live in us and teach us the way so that when we slip and fall we ask for forgiveness and keep walking with God learning to turn away from sin. It is the work of a lifetime living with God's Spirit showing us the way.

PS don't think we ever arrive until we get through the pearly gates and this earth is done. This is the sanctification process.
slip and fall, are things not done on purpose. The sins that i teach against are those that are knowingly and willingly committed. Sins that you know full well are sinful, against God, evil, wicked, darkness, and yet choose to do them anyways. They who do those things will not be accepted into the Kingdom of Heaven, unless they repent and cease to do those things again. Scriptures plainly teach that all liars will burn in the lake of fire and brimstone. Therefore NO liar will enter into Heaven. Therefore if you continue to lie, you will be judged a Liar, and Scriptures can't be broken. But if you repent of your lying and cease to lie any more, then you will not be judged a Liar. But as long as a person continues to lie, regardless of what they claim with their mouths, they will be judged a Liar and will not enter into Heaven, even if they are the very elect.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
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#17
To much nonsense Disciple Dave to your post to go over here. I will post the scriptures again that speak of the believers are in the light. We are in the Light because we are in Christ. I know it may go against your religious beliefs - but it happens to all of us.

It's important to know the gospel of the grace of Christ and not a works-based religion which is based on us and our performance. Christ is our righteousness.

The new creation in Christ has been created in righteousness and holiness - get this wrong and you have no gospel at all left but your works-based self-performance religion.

The Father "qualifies" us because we are in Christ. Get this wrong and we make up a works-based religion of self-effort to save ourselves . Christ alone is our Savior - not ourselves.


Ephesians 5:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]
for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light ( we should be walking out who we are in the light..but it's through Him we do that. He bears His fruit on us - the branches )

Colossians 1:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of
the saints in Light.

1 Thessalonians 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]
for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;

Here Paul called the believer "light" and not darkness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye ( believer ) not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness ( believer ) with unrighteousness? (unbeliever ) and what communion hath light ( believer ) with darkness ( unbeliever )?
 
Last edited:
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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0
#18
Works-based salvationists always deny the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ and base salvation on what "they do" and not on Christ Himself.

The Holy Spirit is with us forever Jesus said.

John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

[SUP]17 [/SUP]that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

The Spirit of truth is with us
forever!

2 John 1:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] for the sake of
the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. John 14:16-17.

Our Lord is NOT a liar.


John says we are safe in the Lord as He keeps us. Isn't that exciting to know that?

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Let's preach and teach the grace of Christ so that we can walk by the spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Do not let any works-based teachers that water down the gospel of the grace of Christ rob you of what the Lord has done for us - because He loves us dearly and already paid for our salvation and redemption. Believe Him. He can be trusted!
 
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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
25,716
113
#19
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ.
Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
#20
To much nonsense Disciple Dave to post here. I will post the scriptures again that speak of the believers are in the light. I know it may go against your religious beliefs - but it happens to all of us.


What i believe is not from me, nor from man, what i know is from God, big difference.

It's important to know the gospel of the grace of Christ and not a works-based religion which is based on us and our performance.
Tell me. Jesus plainly told us this. "A new COMMANDMENT I give unto you, LOVE ONE ANOTHER" Tell me, how is that not Work based? Can you LOVE ONE ANOTHER and not feed them? Can you LOVE ONE ANOTHER and not help the needy? Can you LOVE ONE ANOTHER and not have good deeds. You do error in believing the false doctrine that Faith only IS enough. Scriptures plainly teach over and over again Faith and Works go hand in hand, not Faith only, not Works only, but Faith and Works go hand in hand. So your belief that it is not works based is most certainly contrary to sound doctrine.

Tit_3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Tit_3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.


If you do that which is evil or wicked, if you FAIL to Love One Another, you have NOT maintained good works. This generation is adamant about teaching against any works at all. You do a good work, and people say about you "Oh he is just doing that trying to earn his way into Heaven" and such things like that. Teaching against good works is an excuse to not have any. Faith alone is dead, Works without Faith is dead also. Faith and Works go hand in hand. So you continue to think and believe it is not works based, i will continue to believe Scripture which teach it is BOTH Faith and Works based.

Christ is our righteousness.
Christ is Righteousness to those who continue to do that which is Righteous. Christ is Righteousness to those who continue to be led by the Spirit. Christ is Righteousness to those who walk ONLY in the light. If you can find any Scriptures that contradict anything that teach, i am more than willing to read them. But i already know you will not find one Scripture that contradicts what i teach, because what i teach comes from Him, not from me.


The new creation in Christ has been created in righteousness and holiness - get this wrong and you have no gospel at all left but your works-based self-performance religion.
Get LOVE ONE ANOTHER (Works Based) wrong and you will be left behind.

The Father "qualifies" us because we are in Christ. Get this wrong and we make up a works-based religion of self-effort to save ourselves . Christ alone is our Savior - not ourselves.
Making sure to maintain good works is what Scriptures teach us to do. get that wrong and you will forsake all works altogether not having any at all. A True Christian will maintain good works, not to be Saved, but because they are Saved. Big difference. Jesus commanded you to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, again, tell me how that is NOT Work Based? How do you LOVE OTHERS without any works at all?


Ephesians 5:8 (NASB)
for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light ( we should be walking out who we are in the light..but it's through Him we do that. He bears His fruit on us - the branches )


This is True, has nothing to do with those who choose to walk in darkness instead of the light. Has nothing to do with those return to wallowing in the mire or the dog returning to its own vomit. The verse you mention above is True, but you act as if it is a guarantee that one will remain in that condition forever, hence the reason i mention the verses that contradicts that false belief.

Colossians 1:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of
the saints in Light.


Again, nothing to do with backsliding, falling away, returning to the vomit, getting back in the mud once you are cleaned. Just because Jesus qualifies us, does not guarantee that we will choose to remain in His good Graces. You quote these verse as if they do guarantee it, which they do not say any such thing at all, only you believe they do, because that interpretation of those verses fits into your doctrine that you believe.


1 Thessalonians 5:5 (NASB)
for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;


We are not of night nor darkness, IF we don't live in darkness.
We are not liars, IF we no longer lie
We are not fornicators, IF we no longer fornicate
We are not Righteous, IF we no longer do that which is Righteous
Do you see how that works?

Here Paul called the believer "light" and not darkness.
Judas was also called a Disciple, that does not mean he remained one. Just because Believers were called "light" does not mean all believers are LIGHT like you seem to be implying. Believers are light. But as i said before if any believer does that which is contrary to light, then they are not walking in the light but in darkness. Believers are also called SAVED, does that mean everyone who believes Jesus is Lord is Saved? The Scriptures proves otherwise. The parable of the sheep being divided from the goats by Jesus plainly said that both sheep and goats called Him "LORD" is it not written that no one can call the Lord "Lord" except by the Holy Ghost (ICor12:3) So the goats were indeed believers calling Jesus "Lord" but they were rejected by Him, because they failed to have works of Loving one another. Judgement Day is not for the unsaved, they are Judged already. Judgement Day is specifically for all those who have professed to believe in Jesus Christ. Judgement Day is to divide the sheep from the goats. And both sheep and goats plainly profess Jesus to be Lord. People in this generation better wake up from their sleep and get into the Scriptures and learn these things before it is to late.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye ( believer ) not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness ( believer ) with unrighteousness? (unbeliever ) and what communion hath light ( believer ) with darkness ( unbeliever )?
You do error interpreting this verse to mean something that fits into your own doctrine. Here is what the verse says

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

i will interpret the above verse using the same method you used to interpret it that way you did.

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness (God) with unrighteousness? (satan) and what communion hath light (God) with darkness?(satan)

or

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness (Angels) with unrighteousness? (demons) and what communion hath light (Angels) with darkness? (demons)

Do you understand, if we were discussing Angels, i would interpret the above verse to mean Angels and demons so that it fits into my doctrine. This method of interpreting is in error. What the actual verse means is what the verse actually says.

2Co 6:14 Be ye (believers) not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness (Acts of righteousness) with unrighteousness? (Acts of Unrighteousness) and what communion hath light with darkness? .

Righteousness is not believers, but the WORKS of righteousness, and unrighteousness is not unbelievers but the WORKS of unrighteousness. i use this verse and what it clearly says and teaches to teach against those who claim to be righteous, yet they continue to do unrighteousness, they claim to be in the light, yet there is darkness in them. Claim Jesus is their Lord, yet they obey satan and choose to sin. This verse teaches there is no fellowship one with the other. You are either Righteous or you are unrighteous, you can't be both at the same time, because there is no fellowship with them together.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave