A bad tree cannot produce good fruit - ever

[PeterJens]

I had in someways an awful thought. Fatalism of a sort.

"Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."
Matt 7:17-20

Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Matt 7:15

Jesus appears to be teaching people have an inward problem.
You cannot change the inward realities. You are what you are.

Now in my optimistic view I have always thought we are basically
the same with hearts that desire and search for the best in a given
situation. Jesus is saying this is not true.

Some appear innocent and sweet but eat people up for breakfast.

On this analogy we are not here to win arguments, people are what
they are inside, just to speak to the elect, and call those who walk
with an open heart. It probably is true we generate how we think of
the world around us, and make it match what we expect even if it
does not actually work. There are many who will never see or know
or understand, lost in the way things actually are, we need to focus
on the peace makers and those who will listen to the shepherd.

 

[followjesus]

john 3:19-21 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

matthew 6:22-23 "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine EYE BE SINGLE, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!"

ephesians 5:13-14 "But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light."

hebrews 12:1-3 "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,2Looking unto JESUS the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds."

 

[oldethennew]

john 3:19-21 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

matthew 6:22-23 "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine EYE BE SINGLE, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!"

ephesians 5:13-14 "But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light."

hebrews 12:1-3 "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,2Looking unto JESUS the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
==============================================================================

The Lord above governs the circumstance and we must govern our own Spirits. If we make wrong choices,
small or great, we either have to mend them as best we can or deal in a Spiritual manner with what we alone
cannot fix -

if we get Rattled, Frustrated, Angry, Confused, Impatient..................................................
I cannot seek to pull the Mote out of my Brother's eye or blame another, (if I regress to this, I am a 'babe' in Christ -
and I need my diaper changed............

 

[followjesus]

john 3:19-21 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

matthew 6:22-23 "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine EYE BE SINGLE, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!"

ephesians 5:13-14 "But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light."

hebrews 12:1-3 "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,2Looking unto JESUS the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
==============================================================================

The Lord above governs the circumstance and we must govern our own Spirits. If we make wrong choices,
small or great, we either have to mend them as best we can or deal in a Spiritual manner with what we alone
cannot fix -

if we get Rattled, Frustrated, Angry, Confused, Impatient..................................................
I cannot seek to pull the Mote out of my Brother's eye or blame another, (if I regress to this, I am a 'babe' in Christ -
and I need my diaper changed............

amen, But the spirit of Jesus governs us we follow << to me that is governing our selves. we fall when Like peter when walking on water looked at the circumstance, rather than Jesus is my thinking. had peter fixed upon Jesus and ignored the waves, Jesus spirit would have kept Him on the surface, of course tho, when he failed all he did was call out " Lord save me" and our savior is like that whjen our hearts remain fixed upon Him. we learn and we grow, we fall and He catches us the more we walk the stronger our legs become

 

[OneFaith]

God can genuinely change a person from the inside out. Once God makes us good we can produce good fruit- the fruits of the Spirit- love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. A bad tree produces bad fruit- hatred, negetive attitudes, impatience, quarrelsome, mean-spirited, wicked, unfaithful, harsh, impulsive, and easily angered.

 

[PeterJens]

God can genuinely change a person from the inside out. Once God makes us good we can produce good fruit- the fruits of the Spirit- love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. A bad tree produces bad fruit- hatred, negetive attitudes, impatience, quarrelsome, mean-spirited, wicked, unfaithful, harsh, impulsive, and easily angered.

I 100% agree with this. I suppose in my mind I have two models.
A sinner who is lost, but given the key to life with jump and follow Jesus.
A sinner who is lost, but gets involved in faith without sorting out their soul.

They end up ripping people apart, rather than helping making them whole.

Jesus appears to be saying there is no hope for these people. What has happened and
their stand against the principles of the Kingdom are a judgement against them which
can never be repaired, because it is innate in who they are.

 

[Joidevivre]

Jesus said that if we abide in Him (the vine), we just will bear good fruit. Not to worry, it will definitely happen.

It is the abiding that people get wrong. It is not to have just a belief in Jesus, but it is the daily intimacy in prayer, finding him in the Word, receiving his love and giving love in return. It is staying WITH him. It is submission.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A bad tree (unsaved) can not bear good fruit. They can act like Christians, Walk like Christians, and talk like Christians, or they can act like the world. talk like the world and walk like the word. It does not matter they will never bear fruit.

What separates them from a child of God, is a child of God is attached to the vine, And he will produce fruit Maybe not ver much (ie baby christian) but he will bear fruit.

A sinner is not given a key to jump and follow Jesus, A sinner is given LIFE, (if he gets saved) and is powered by Jesus (by being attached to the vine) It is not the believer who bears fruit, It is the blood throwing through the branch (believer) which bears the fruit. God gets the glory (amen)

 

[prove-all]

at the beginning of Genesis 3. The teaching of the two trees
was the first test mankind faced. Adam and Eve’s first major
decision was to choose which of the two trees they would eat from.

That decision set the course of human civilization!


“The one tree was the TREE OF LIFE, the other the TREE OF DEATH.
One is the way of GOD; the other is the way of SATAN.” It’s that simple!


The roots are the most important part of a tree: They anchor the tree to the ground.
The roots are the source of nourishment for the branches and fruit. The roots
determine how large a tree can grow, how many branches it can support, what kind
of fruit it produces and how much. Trees can survive without fruit, and sometimes
without branches, but no tree can survive without healthy roots!


If Adam had taken from the tree of life, he would have eaten fruit produced by
the tree with God at its roots and received the Spirit of God. Eating from the tree
of life meant obeying God, accepting God’s revealed knowledge; obeying God’s word.

If Adam had taken the tree of life, God would have revealed
His way of living—to Adam.

But eating from the tree of death meant taking of fruit produced by
the spirit of Satan, originating from Satan at its roots. Satan rejected
God and decided for himself what was right and wrong. By eating from
Satan’s tree, Adam made it his prerogative to decide what was good
and evil, right and wrong. Adam made the choice and that mankind was
to be influenced and led by the spirit of the devil.

 

[John146]

God can genuinely change a person from the inside out. Once God makes us good we can produce good fruit- the fruits of the Spirit- love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. A bad tree produces bad fruit- hatred, negetive attitudes, impatience, quarrelsome, mean-spirited, wicked, unfaithful, harsh, impulsive, and easily angered.

Are you saying a lost person cannot be kind? Patient? Full of joy? Gentle? Self-controlled?

 

[prove-all]

“Now if Adam had taken of that fruit, he would have taken what came from the ROOT
and up through the trunk of the tree. He would have had the SPIRIT of the LIFE OF GOD.

He would have done the WAY OF GOD—and [had] the SPIRIT OF GOD to give him the
knowledge of that way—to give him the LOVE to fulfill that way—to give him the POWER
to live that way and then to produce the fruit of PEACE, and JOY, and HAPPINESS, and
of every kind of abundance and everything that mankind could want.”

-

“Had Adam taken of the proffered tree of life the whole course of civilization would have
been entirely different. Peace, happiness, joy, health and abundance would have spread
over the Earth.” Adam rejected this way of life for mankind when he turned his back on
the tree of life and ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, or the tree of death


-

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil appeared beautiful and good for food, but
inside it was vile and rotten. “[T]he root of that tree, “is Satan, and the spirit of Satan
coming up through the trunk. And then the various ways that it leads to are the ways

of COMPETITION, of VANITY, exalting the SELF even ABOVE GOD, of COMPETITION,
of STRIFE, of ENVY, of JEALOUSY, of BITTERNESS, … of OPPOSITION,
of DISHARMONY and DISUNITY in every way; and that ENDS IN DEATH.”

God closed off access to the tree of life after Adam and Eve’s sin (Genesis 3:22-24).
By eating of the wrong tree, Adam decided it would be man’s prerogative to decide
for himself what is good and what is evil, what is right and what is wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you saying a lost person cannot be kind? Patient? Full of joy? Gentle? Self-controlled?

would you call that fruit?

 

[John146]

would you call that fruit?

Scripture calls them "fruits of the Spirit". What other fruit will a believer produce that cannot be produced by a lost person? If so, these fruits would set apart the believers from non-believers, yes? What are they?

 

[blue_ladybug]

A bad tree (unsaved) can not bear good fruit. They can act like Christians, Walk like Christians, and talk like Christians, or they can act like the world. talk like the world and walk like the word. It does not matter they will never bear fruit.

What separates them from a child of God, is a child of God is attached to the vine, And he will produce fruit Maybe not ver much (ie baby christian) but he will bear fruit.

A sinner is not given a key to jump and follow Jesus, A sinner is given LIFE, (if he gets saved) and is powered by Jesus (by being attached to the vine) It is not the believer who bears fruit, It is the blood throwing through the branch (believer) which bears the fruit. God gets the glory (amen)

We all start out as bad trees. But with time and care and proper tending, even the worst of trees can eventually bear fruit. JMO

 

[blue_ladybug]

Are you saying a lost person cannot be kind? Patient? Full of joy? Gentle? Self-controlled?

​A lost person is usually mean, impatient, full of anger and resentment, and is definitely not self-controlled.. jmo

 

[Grace777x70]

​A lost person is usually mean, impatient, full of anger and resentment, and is definitely not self-controlled.. jmo

That sounds exactly like us Christians too...lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Scripture calls them "fruits of the Spirit". What other fruit will a believer produce that cannot be produced by a lost person? If so, these fruits would set apart the believers from non-believers, yes? What are they?

So A person can produce "fruits" of the spirit, and not have the Holy Spirit?


No, A person can act like a christian and not be a christian.. Yes those are fruits of the spirit. but if not done by the spirit, it is human good, or self righteousness, not fruit. The old testament called them bloody rags.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We all start out as bad trees. But with time and care and proper tending, even the worst of trees can eventually bear fruit. JMO

if by the term "we" you mean born again child of God I agree

If by the term "we" you mean anyone "saved or unsaved" I must disagree..

I am prety sure you meant the first through

 

[Willie-T]

I had in someways an awful thought. Fatalism of a sort.

"Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."
Matt 7:17-20

Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Matt 7:15

Jesus appears to be teaching people have an inward problem.
You cannot change the inward realities. You are what you are.

Now in my optimistic view I have always thought we are basically
the same with hearts that desire and search for the best in a given
situation. Jesus is saying this is not true.

Some appear innocent and sweet but eat people up for breakfast.

On this analogy we are not here to win arguments, people are what
they are inside, just to speak to the elect, and call those who walk
with an open heart. It probably is true we generate how we think of
the world around us, and make it match what we expect even if it
does not actually work. There are many who will never see or know
or understand, lost in the way things actually are, we need to focus
on the peace makers and those who will listen to the shepherd.

I believe you read that entirely backward.

This verse was not given so that we can decide we don't like what someone says, and therefore declare them to be a "bad tree", claiming nothing they could ever say will be right.

I think it says that although we may not understand it or agree with them, if they "bear good fruit" (such as leading someone to accept Christ) then they cannot be a "bad tree."

There is a vast difference between Good Judgment, and being Judgmental.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Scripture calls them "fruits of the Spirit". What other fruit will a believer produce that cannot be produced by a lost person? If so, these fruits would set apart the believers from non-believers, yes? What are they?

A person that hasn't been reborn of the Spirit of GOD can do good things but If they are not a member of the body of CHRIST,then they are not saved.

Good fruit or bad fruit.
Talking about saved vs unsaved.

JESUS said the words that I speak,they are Spirit and they are Life.