Trying to understand sin

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M

Mooky

Guest
#1
Hi all,

I am perplexed by how the bible refers to sin as though it were a) an active entity b) a substance.
What I mean is that verses found in Romans elude to the fact that when Paul sinned , it was not him doing it , but sin which is in me."I find this concept weird and hard to understand because sin here is mentioned as though it is an active entity.
And then in 1 John where we are told that " if we confess our sins to God we have fellowship with one another and His blood cleanses us from all unrighteousness."Again weird - and hard to understand .....its as if sin here is referred to as a substance that is washed off our being.But it's not a substance- is it? It is a lawless deed or thought.How can it be washed off?Perhaps I need some divine revelation on this instead of trying to understand it with my natural mind ....but it would help if someone could fill me in.

Thanks!
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,261
2,386
113
#2
Hi all,

I am perplexed by how the bible refers to sin as though it were a) an active entity b) a substance.
What I mean is that verses found in Romans elude to the fact that when Paul sinned , it was not him doing it , but sin which is in me."I find this concept weird and hard to understand because sin here is mentioned as though it is an active entity.
And then in 1 John where we are told that " if we confess our sins to God we have fellowship with one another and His blood cleanses us from all unrighteousness."Again weird - and hard to understand .....its as if sin here is referred to as a substance that is washed off our being.But it's not a substance- is it? It is a lawless deed or thought.How can it be washed off?Perhaps I need some divine revelation on this instead of trying to understand it with my natural mind ....but it would help if someone could fill me in.

Thanks!
Mooky,

What happened in the fall, when Adam and Eve sinned?

What was passed down from them to all mankind?

Was it a thought or deed... or was it something more?

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:





 

EarsToHear

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2016
340
8
0
#3
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


"Sin is the transgression of the law." Many churches teach that the law is done away with, but that is not what John nor Jesus said. That is dangerous talk. Then there are others that spiritualize this and say that someone in Christ doesn't choose to do anything that isn't righteous.


Sin is the transgression or breaking of the law. The church world today goes from some that totally disregard the law, to those that place a strict bondage of the law to where there is no freedom in Christ. However, those that are the most spiritual sick are those that label things that are natural as a sin. God created man and woman, and God made man for woman, and woman for man and God made each of them attractive to each other. The woman is God's gift to man, and to admire the beauty of an attractive lady is not a sin. That is a natural thing in what God has created, and it is part of the plan of God.
 
M

Mooky

Guest
#4
So sin is like a disease?Which causes death?
 
M

Mooky

Guest
#6
I can accept this answer.But it still doesn't elucidate by what is meant that my " sins are washed away." Or am taking this metaphor too literally?
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#7
I can accept this answer.But it still doesn't elucidate by what is meant that my " sins are washed away." Or am taking this metaphor too literally?
In Christ, your past, present, and futures sins have all been washed away on the cross. But, until Jesus returns to put things right (restore all of Creation to its Edenic form and then Heaven will bleed into our earthly realm), we'll still have our sin nature (as descendants of Adam) that will need to be constantly worked on. Holy Spirit dwells in us to bring about this Christ-likeness. It's a progressive journey. Currently, we're works in progress. I think Luther said it best when he said that we're both sinner and saint.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#8
There is more to sin than just breaking God's rules. It's tainted. Let me explain this in physical terms. Say you work in a restaurant, and stuck a mop in the toilet, then pulled it out to mop the floor. Then you cut up some food, then dropped it on the floor. When you pick it up and put it on the customer's plate, you did not just break the rules, you contaminated.

Now think in spiritual terms. Sin is not only breaking a rule, it is evil, it is darkness. You know how people joke that if you don't wash your socks, eventually they're going to walk away on their own? Well, that can happen to things- such as flour- if it gets old enough it can turn wormy and walk away. In the same way, spiritually, sin is us breaking the rules, but yes, sin is also an entity called 'evil'.

The Bible says hate WHAT is evil, cling to WHAT is good. Notice it said 'what' and not 'who'. Items can be spiritually tainted by sin? Yes. The Bible says the marriage bed must be kept pure. Sure, you can take that both ways, in essence it must be a faithful marriage, but the Old Testament talks about the actual bed.

Would you want sheets on your marriage bed that came from a prositute's house, that someone was also murdered on, even though they've been professionally cleaned? I wouldn't, because I know what they were once used for, so to me they are tainted, even if there's nothing wrong with them physically. Could you take the cross Jesus died on and turn it into a cutting board for your kitchen? I couldn't do it.

So sin is breaking law, yes, but it is also a spiritual darkness that takes on a life of its own.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#9
I can accept this answer.But it still doesn't elucidate by what is meant that my " sins are washed away." Or am taking this metaphor too literally?
I believe you are being too literal. All throughout the bible easy to understand concepts are applied to spiritual matters to make them easier to grasp. Paul, for example, talks about us being in a race. Or wearing the 'full armor of God'. We are not in a literal race, nor do we literally put on armor, but these ideas help us to understand something more easily.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#10
I believe you are being too literal. All throughout the bible easy to understand concepts are applied to spiritual matters to make them easier to grasp. Paul, for example, talks about us being in a race. Or wearing the 'full armor of God'. We are not in a literal race, nor do we literally put on armor, but these ideas help us to understand something more easily.
Yes, the Bible is generally very clear when metaphoric language is being used to illustrate a godly truth.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#11
WOW!

maybe hard words for some, but yes, we reap what we sow...

and we can only know/accept this by being able to acknowledge this
from a carnal point of view, before Christ...,'remembering', be fore being called by Jesus Christ...
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
#12
The Word says that once saved we are the righteousness of God in Christ (2 Cor 5:21). The gospel of Jesus given to paul says we are dead to sin (Rom 6:11). It takes a great amount of faith to believe these things DESPITE evidence to the contrary but God's Word is Truth.

Many large religious institutions will use the lie that we are still a prisoner of the law to keep control of the masses. satan also tries to deceive us by causing us to doubt our true identity. Sadly many Christians fall for this lie and are kept in bondage. Only by setting aside our pride and ego and relying on God's Word can we truly walk in the light of salvation.

Once saved we become new creations (2 Cor 5:17) the sinful,dead spirit we all inherited from adam is gone and we are washed clean by the blood of Jesus. Once that occurs we are free from condemnation (Rom 8:1) and in fact we are told we can look BOLDLY forward to judgement day ( 1 John 4:17).

Do not be deceived, have faith in all that Jesus accomplished on the cross. In this world we reap what we sow but as far as salvation is concerned we reap what Jesus sowed. Thank you Jesus!
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#13
Sin is violation of God's purpose and it's starts with the prideful heart.

James 4:17

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

John 9:41

"If you were blind," Jesus replied, "you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains."
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#14
The fact that man is sinful could be compared to a brightly lit room...then turn out the light...darkness. We can't see God or His Kingdom. See as in understand.

Sins are the individual actions of the darkness.

But, when Jesus who is the Light of the world gives us of His Holy Spirit, understanding floods in. He's our connection to Father and to heaven.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#15
This has helped me to know the difference between "sin" - the noun used in Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have dominion over you" and "sinning" the verb which is the action of sinning.

In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and ship-wreck their faith.

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been quarantined in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to "it."

Quote:

"agoverning principle or power, e.g.,
Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.



The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#16
Hi all,

I am perplexed by how the bible refers to sin as though it were a) an active entity b) a substance.
What I mean is that verses found in Romans elude to the fact that when Paul sinned , it was not him doing it , but sin which is in me."I find this concept weird and hard to understand because sin here is mentioned as though it is an active entity.
And then in 1 John where we are told that " if we confess our sins to God we have fellowship with one another and His blood cleanses us from all unrighteousness."Again weird - and hard to understand .....its as if sin here is referred to as a substance that is washed off our being.But it's not a substance- is it? It is a lawless deed or thought.How can it be washed off?Perhaps I need some divine revelation on this instead of trying to understand it with my natural mind ....but it would help if someone could fill me in.

Thanks!
I don't know about "filling you in" but it's always fun to offer an opinion. I agree that sin is a lawless deed or thought. Paul's words confuse me, also. The desire to sin can be very powerful, but I still have trouble thinking about it in the way he described. John's words make more sense to me. If we repent of our sin, the Lord forgives, and we no longer have to hang our heads in shame.
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#17
We were evil in God's eyes. Our own evil desires are what make sin a substance that make us unclean. While acting on this evil desires make sin as an active entity. But the Holy Spirit has given us self control to handle our evil desires so we minimize sinning. God has forgiven all the sins of the world through Jesus and will continue to work with us until we become like Jesus, complete and lacking in nothing.

James 1:14-15
…14But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. 15Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#18
Well the washing off is similar to whiteout paste when a person makes a mistake on paper with ink, it can be fixed...

Trying to understand sin is like trying to fight a bear in phone booth, the natural minded person...

The spiritual minded person is similar too a person who works on high voltage power lines, electricity can kill very easy and sudden so it's important to use the right protection and right procedures to safely work around high voltage lines...
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#19
I can accept this answer.But it still doesn't elucidate by what is meant that my " sins are washed away." Or am taking this metaphor too literally?
It is not a literal thing, but sort of an explanation.

In the OT, after the fall, God killed and animal (shed it's blood) and covered Adam and Eve.
The first sacrifice!

Eventually, the Israelites got commandments about animal sacrifice - for the forgiveness of sins.
Blood would be poured on the altar, and sprinkled on the people

Jesus' blood was shed (literally) for the final and lasting sacrifice for our sins.


So, we are "washed" in his blood, because God "sees" the blood , and not our sins.
 

lastofall

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2014
609
38
28
#20
Sin the the voluntary departure from the morality prescribed by God. As for scripture, the Holy Spirit of Truth speaking through Paul, James and John tells us about what sin is:

"for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." (Romans 14:23)
"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." (James 4:17)
"for sin is the transgression of the law." (1 John 3:4)
"All unrighteousness is sin." (1 John 5:17)