Support Israel

[tanakh]

Tanakh...I have tried time and time again to bring you to the truth but for some reason you will not budge. What you are talking about has already happened prior to 70AD. However, there is more to happen. Luke tells us about the past and Matthew tells us about the future. I really do not understand how you can disregard prophecies yet to come. To say they will not happen is calling GOD a Liar or worse? I wish there was someway I could change your mind but it appears the answer to that is NO.

Have a Blessed Day
Blade[/COLOR]

I am quite taken aback by your reply. Did you read my post? More important have you ever read Zechariah, in particular chapters 12 - 14. They plainly state that in the end of days the Lord will stand on the mount of olives and it will split creating a valley in which the remnent of israel will escape. It also says that they will look upon he who they pierced.
None of this happened prior to 70AD. I have been to the mount of olives and can assure you that there are no visible cracks in it let alone valleys.

Where in my posts do I disregard Prophecies? By quoting Zechariah I am putting the future regarding Israel in its proper context

 

[Locutus]

***Ezekiel Chapter 22 & 23; Zechariah 13**** one third will be purified and saved during The Great Tribulation*** rejoice and pray for the Peace of Jerusalem ***

Who do you think these are chopped liver??

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

 

[MattTooFor]

​ I say leave it and then I pick at it. What "holocaust" are you speaking of? I know Im gonna regret asking...

The eighth and final "Antichrist" beast empire which will destroy and decimate the Jewish people in Israel during the 70th Week in the 'end times'.

 

[MattTooFor]

Where we differ is that I believe that God not Satan is the driving force behind the creation of modern Israel but his plans involve judgement not blessing.

Don't know that we actually differ on this point. Certainly, God has been behind the emergence of all of the previous seven "beast empires" and will be behind the eighth and final Antichrist beats empire.

But I would say it is equally true to say the Devil is conspiring to subject the Jews to mass murder, a violent overthrow of the Israeli government, and the subsequent introduction to the world of his chosen world leader, the Antichrist. It's all part of the Devil's plan...but God has always been depicted in the Bible as the Zone who allows the emergence of these beast empires.

 

[kaylagrl]

The eighth and final "Antichrist" beast empire which will destroy and decimate the Jewish people in Israel during the 70th Week in the 'end times'.

Quote"the backbone of support and promotion for this holocaust...is coming from conservative American Evangelicals."

I was asking about this comment. Not sure I understand your answer can you explain a little more?Thanks

 

[Jimbone]

Amen and Amen! Blessed be the chosen people of God!

I was under the impression they were "chosen" to bring forth the Messiah, right? What else were they "chosen" for? I thought we the Church were spiritual Israel now, where EVERYONE (including "Jews" of course) are now "God's chosen people" when they are reborn.

Also in which way should I support them? If by support you mean giving them the gospel and trying to point them to the ONLY path to salvation in Jesus Christ, then I couldn't agree any more than I do. If by "support" you mean I need to give my money to support a secular people that deny Christ, and therefore deny the one true God, to kill and make war, then I couldn't disagree more. I do not think the Jewish people have some "magic pass" that is not available to us gentiles, Christ is the ONLY way for EVERYONE, even the Jews. If anyone is implying that the Jews don't need Jesus, I couldn't think of a more hateful and eternally damning position to have. There is "ONE" way for EVERY person, no exception, and I know many Jews that have come to truth.

Think about it, the Jewish religion that God set up included a temple, priesthood, and animal sacrifice. NONE of which they practice today, and there is a reason for that. It all pointed to Jesus, and He came. So even if they did catch a pass as long as they did what God commanded them to do, then they still aren't even doing that. I don't believe that the Jew holds any kind of special place any better than any other gentile. They were simply chosen to bring forth the Messiah, and did that praise God. Now we are all on an even playing field now. That's the way I see it anyway.

 

[70AD]

The New Jerusalem is the Church. Haven't you read Revelation about the heavenly Jerusalem symbolically coming down from heaven. Well in 70 AD when the physical Jerusalem was destroyed, that is exactly what happened. The spiritual heavenly Jerusalem was restored through the Church. The physical Jerusalem today no longer has any spiritual significance.

 

[70AD]

What do you mean it's time to prepare them for the judgement of God? What do you think happened in 70 AD? How many judgements do you want? 70 AD was the final judgement when the kingdom of heaven spread to all gentile nations on earth. The whole eschatology of the Bible was to do with the Old Covenant nation coming to an end so the Messiah could be a light to the world, and the kingdom restored with a New Covernent. Both Jew and gentile were to come into the kingdom. This was fulfilled in the 1st century, especially 70 AD. Don't wait for any further judgements because they are not going to happen.

 

[JaumeJ]

If we are of the Commonwealth of Israel becaue we are joined to it by the Blood of the Lamb, we, by our new nature, absolutely support the Israel of God.

This Israel includes all peoples who are saved by the Lamb of god. This includes Jews, Asians N & S Americans, Africans, those of Oceania.......etc.

Our new nature instructs us bo love all people, even enemies; I would dare say this says clearly to support them..........

Now meditate on the difference between the Israel where all prophecy is to be completed, that is the staging ground, and the eternal Israel of God. Do not confuse the two... To think the shadow of the Israel to come is the same as it is incorret.

 

[tanakh]

What do you mean it's time to prepare them for the judgement of God? What do you think happened in 70 AD? How many judgements do you want? 70 AD was the final judgement when the kingdom of heaven spread to all gentile nations on earth. The whole eschatology of the Bible was to do with the Old Covenant nation coming to an end so the Messiah could be a light to the world, and the kingdom restored with a New Covernent. Both Jew and gentile were to come into the kingdom. This was fulfilled in the 1st century, especially 70 AD. Don't wait for any further judgements because they are not going to happen.

So was God telling lies when he got people to predict the second coming including John who outlived the destruction of 70AD? What do you think Christ is going to do? Give everyone a pat on the head for rejecting him for 2000 plus years? If it all happened in AD70 what is the point of Revelation?

 

[zone]

The eighth and final "Antichrist" beast empire which will destroy and decimate the Jewish people in Israel during the 70th Week in the 'end times'.

the 70th week followed the 69th without a gap.
done.

 

[Locutus]

No gap for the dispensationlists, just a theological invention...

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

"Upon thy holy city" is a direct reference to 1st century Israel.

 

[Agricola]

If everything is done and finished in AD70, then does it mean that the world continues as it is for eternity because everything is Spiritual; after all, Jesus is spiritually sitting on the throne of David, Satan has already been defeated and is already chained up spiritually, the New Jeruselm is a spiritual one. Conclusion, it is easy to create theology where everything is spiritual and an elergy or a parable.

AD70 fits in a few places, but the rest of Revelation does not sit very well with this idea, which is why everything has to be spiritual and already happened and is just made up cryptic imagery.

 

[Locutus]

Not everything is "spiritual" but plenty of scripture is such as:

Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

If you are expecting a physical river flowing then you've misunderstood the scripture.

The kingdom is spiritual consisting of physical people that is not geocentric to a stretch of dirt in the middle east and never will be.

This principle applies to the kingdom as well:

1 Co 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

 

[Agricola]

Not everything is "spiritual" but plenty of scripture is such as:

Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

If you are expecting a physical river flowing then you've misunderstood the scripture.

The kingdom is spiritual consisting of physical people that is not geocentric to a stretch of dirt in the middle east and never will be.

This principle applies to the kingdom as well:

1 Co 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

Of course there is a spiritual side to things and imagary to show that, however there is plenty of places which is clearly speaking about a physical event, such as Christ sitting on the throne and ruling over Jeruslem, but of course to make your AD70 work, that part has to now be a spiritual, so you take a lot of what is clearly a future event that not has happened and just simply turn it into a spiritual event to make it fit and job done.

 

[valiant]

Of course there is a spiritual side to things and imagary to show that, however there is plenty of places which is clearly speaking about a physical event, such as Christ sitting on the throne and ruling over Jeruslem, but of course to make your AD70 work, that part has to now be a spiritual, so you take a lot of what is clearly a future event that not has happened and just simply turn it into a spiritual event to make it fit and job done.

no it is not Locutus but the Bible which makes it spiritual. Jesus Christ is never depicted as sitting on the throne of Jerusalem. But He is depicted as sitting on a spiritual throne of David (Acts 2.30-36)

 

[Locutus]

Of course there is a spiritual side to things and imagary to show that, however there is plenty of places which is clearly speaking about a physical event, such as Christ sitting on the throne and ruling over Jeruslem, but of course to make your AD70 work, that part has to now be a spiritual, so you take a lot of what is clearly a future event that not has happened and just simply turn it into a spiritual event to make it fit and job done.

The kingdom is spiritual and not physical - Jesus claims the kingdom is not observable but you want it to be a visible kingdom.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

 

[dalconn]

the church is not a “New Israel.” God has not abandoned or rejected His ancient people, Israel. He will complete the re-gathering and restoration of Israel. He will one day bring their spiritual rebirth as He promised in both the Old and New Testaments. Until then, He has called the church to proclaim the good news that the Messiah, Jesus, has come. That is good news for all nations, but for the Jew first!

 

[JaumeJ]

Absolutely correct Now you must read the rest written on the subject....... We must always pray for all souls...

Stand with the Lord (Roman 11:1-5)---the salvation of Israel---God has not cast His people away...

 

[70AD]

So what is the heavenly Jerusalem that symbolically comes down from heaven in Revelation? It's the Church. Both Jew and gentile established the Church in the 1st century that became the new Israel of the Spirit. The Israel of the "flesh" has come to an end. Modern day Israel has nothing to do with Bible prophecy and you need to get your Eschatology right to see this. God did not abandon His people according to Romans 11. Their was a remnant of faithful Jews in the 1st century that regathered and restored the Israel of the Spirit after the great Tribulation of 70 AD. It's history now. Don't expect modern day Jews to gather unto Christ. It will be a miraculous if that happens.