GREASY GRACE?

[followjesus]

Grace is not a license to sin as many "claim" to say that others do say it is a license to sin. People that say stuff like that have no idea of the gospel of the grace of God yet.

No person who believes in the grace of God says it is ok to sin all you want. That is a lie from the enemy and they use labels like "greasy grace" to disparage the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[video=youtube;C9gQ5wrHUKU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9gQ5wrHUKU[/video]

Bruce, when you teach people " God cant see your sin anymore" " you are already saved and cannot lose salvation " you are infact creating a liscence to continuie in sin. the solution for ongoing sin is to accept the truth that we MUST repent and begin living right according to God. Because that is the truth of Gods word. there is the grace that teaches us to repent and live right ( titus 2:11-15) and there is the distortion of Grace in jude 1. just saying " grace" doesnt make it Gods grace, Gods grace came through Jesus and His gospel and is bound to the truth of His word. to accept Grace and also truth will teach and correct and lead home. Grace without Jesus truth which is Gods word spoken By the Lord, is not Gods Grace.

To teach sinners that thier sins current and future are already forgiven, will never lead to repentance. Knowing that Grace DOES NOT pardon sin beforehand leads believers to accept and follow Jesus that will save even the worst. but repentance is 100 percent a requirement of Gods True Grace. to say otherwise leads to " i liscence to go on living for self which is the nature of sin. so yes many grace teachers offer a get out of jail free card pertaining to ongoing sin and lack of the word repentance, and "do unto others" without the teaching of righteousness there is nothing but wrath ahead by Gods immutable word

 

[Grace777x70]

There is Gods Grace in accordance with truth.

titus 2:11-15 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

and there is a distortion of the word grace

jude 1:3-4 "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

Gods true Grace came through Jesus and is bound to the truth of Jesus.

the word grace that is distorted teaches omission of the truth that is in Jesus.

The truth is that Grace is meant for the express purpose to teaches to repent of sin, and to Live righteous Lives according to Jesus Christ because Judgement is coming with certainty it will be just like Jesus said.

The Lie is that Grace pardons ongoing sin which will never lead to righteousness. Gods grace v mans grace

If you do a study on Jude 1:4 you will see that the word for "turn" is really "to replace, in place of, transpose".

It is NOT that people are saying that it's ok to sin now because of grace - that's the common mis-interpretation of Jude 1:4.

It is actually not living by grace and thus are in reality living a lifestyle of lasciviousness. - which means "without restraint". They are replacing the grace of God in their lives for living without restraint whether it be in lifestyles or in doing their own works of self-righteousness/holiness.

The ones denying the Lord Jesus Christ are those that deny the grace of God in their lives and exchange His grace for their own ways of living - which includes self-righteous salvationists mindsets. This not only includes those living in homosexual lifestyles - it includes the religious people going to church every sunday that are rejecting the grace of God for their own works.

Yes - this includes those that have malice and slander others in the body of Christ - whether they be pastors, been Christians for 60 years, go to church every time the doors are open, can read in Greek and Hebrew, have memorized 1/2 the NT, pray in tongues for 6 hours every day...etc. ( all good things within themselves but not necessarily barometers of living by grace )

The word for "turn" in Jude 1:4 means to "replace" or "in place of" or " to transpose"...people are replacing the grace of God for something else.

It does not mean that people are "turning" grace into lewdness as the KJV seems to look like it is saying.

It has nothing to do with so-called greasy-grace/OSAS believers using grace as a license to sin which is constantly being accused of. Paul was slanderously accused of the very same thing when he taught grace.

If we are never accused of saying that it is ok to sin - we have never really preached the gospel that Paul preached yet.

Here are some scriptures where the exact same Greek word is used to see how it is used. You can readily see that the word means to transpose or to exchange from one place to another.

Acts 7:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "From there they were removed to Shechem and laid in the tomb which Abraham had purchased for a sum of money from the sons of Hamor in Shechem.

Galatians 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.


Here is what the Greek word means:

"To transpose, put in another place and hence to transport, transfer"

Complete Word Study Dictionary, The - The Complete Word Study Dictionary – New Testament.

 

[Grace777x70]

Bruce, when you teach people " God cant see your sin anymore" " you are already saved and cannot lose salvation " you are infact creating a liscence to continuie in sin. the solution for ongoing sin is to accept the truth that we MUST repent and begin living right according to God. Because that is the truth of Gods word. there is the grace that teaches us to repent and live right ( titus 2:11-15) and there is the distortion of Grace in jude 1. just saying " grace" doesnt make it Gods grace, Gods grace came through Jesus and His gospel and is bound to the truth of His word. to accept Grace and also truth will teach and correct and lead home. Grace without Jesus truth which is Gods word spoken By the Lord, is not Gods Grace.

To teach sinners that thier sins current and future are already forgiven, will never lead to repentance. Knowing that Grace DOES NOT pardon sin beforehand leads believers to accept and follow Jesus that will save even the worst. but repentance is 100 percent a requirement of Gods True Grace. to say otherwise leads to " i liscence to go on living for self which is the nature of sin. so yes many grace teachers offer a get out of jail free card pertaining to ongoing sin and lack of the word repentance, and "do unto others" without the teaching of righteousness there is nothing but wrath ahead by Gods immutable word

No one teaches "sinners" to sin all you want because of forgiveness. That is a construct of your own mind. The truth is that all sins have been taken away and we are to "repent" and believe in the gospel which is the work of Christ.

This doesn't make us want to live ungodly lives. It does the complete opposite. This is what the religious mindset doesn't understand.

This is all a construct of what you believe but Jesus says the opposite. He said that those who are forgiven much - love much.

Until we understand the 2 aspects of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ - we will be forever making the Christian life a works-based salvation which denies the work of the Lord Jesus Christ because of our unbelief.

There are 2 aspects to grace. The very first thing that Jesus does with the woman caught in adultery is that He gets rid of her accusers - the religious Pharisees that wanted to condemn her because the "bible" said so in the Old Covenant...she was to be stoned. ( the law condemns us )

Jesus was the only one qualified to condemn her but He didn't.


1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".

It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.

Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now because you are a new creation in Him.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you."

The grace of God and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things in this New Covenant of grace!

"Knowing" that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.


What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based mindset and the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous and it "conflicts" with their religious man-made traditions.

 

[Cee]

Grace is a license to be righteous. People don't need a license to sin. They've been doing it for thousands of years without one.

 

[Grace777x70]

The teaching of the true gospel of the grace of God changes people and transforms them by His grace that is in Christ Jesus.

The "replacement" for the grace of God is this works-based salvation mindset which in effect denies the Lord Jesus Christ and they "exchange" the grace of God for their "good works".

I think that the gospel of the grace of Christ has been so watered down with law and condemnation that the "message" given out as the gospel does not have the power in it for real change. We do get born-again from it - thank God for His boundless grace which is in Christ our Lord.

The gospel is about an exchanged life not merely a behavior modification program for the flesh to pretty it up.

If we preached the real gospel then in "it" people will find real salvation - which will reflect in a transformed life by the Holy Spirit in all these people that are struggling in the Christian life and with their flesh.

A lot of the exhortations by Paul to live right were always based on him first telling them what the real gospel is. That they were the righteousness of God in Christ. That they were cleansed and forgiven and accepted in the Beloved.

That they are new creations. Paul told them about their true identity now as sons of God. These exhortations are descriptive of the fruit of an exchanged life.

Works-based salvationists make these exhortations a requirement in order to be saved which is the complete opposite of the gospel message in Christ.

Acceptance grace in that we are completely forgiven, deeply loved as a child of God and forever sealed in Him

- knowing this will release the 2nd aspect of grace - empowering grace to go and sin no more. It's a by-product of our new life in Christ.

We really need to be cemented in the 1st aspect of acceptance grace - then empowering grace will be manifested as a fruit of His life being lived in and through us.

 

[FlSnookman7]

[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]Gal 2:16[/TD]
[TD]Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Gal 2:17[/TD]
[TD]¶But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Gal 2:18[/TD]
[TD]For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Gal 2:19[/TD]
[TD]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Gal 2:20[/TD]
[TD]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Gal 2:21[/TD]
[TD]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness comeby the law, then Christ is dead in vain.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Gal 2:18 speaks specifically to those who try and save themselves by attempting to keep the law.

 

[Cee]

From my understanding: works-based salvationists make it a requirement in order to stay saved. They will allow a person to be saved without works, but then once saved they need to know they can lose their salvation. Of course, they don't teach this to a person before they get saved, this is the "fine print".

"Hey new convert. I'm glad you are saved. By the way you know how I said it was a free gift? Well, it's free, but there's a few rules you need to follow to keep it..."

This mindset comes from thinking people will sin if they have freedom to do so. It's backwards. Because while they are focusing on keeping people from sinning, God is focusing on righteousness. Grace gives people freedom to love. They are no longer under the bondage of sin.

Of course, many works-based salvations bristle under the thought of telling people they are free of sin. So while they use the same fear they are under to further enslave those who struggle with sin. They don't actually give them a gospel that will set them free. Many times I've found they are jealous of other peoples' freedom. Scripture talks about these people in detail.

But here's my biggest issue:

The idea which I don't agree with at all is essentially in one way or another: "Not only will you not be free, but you're also going to feel shame and condemnation for being just a worthless human." This is the gospel to many religious minded people. And to those who teach freedom, they call, "greasy grace". But I think a grace that doesn't actually set people free is "greasy".

 

[FlSnookman7]

[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR="class: verseSelected"]
[TD]Gal 3:1[/TD]
[TD]¶O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Gal 3:2[/TD]
[TD]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Gal 3:3[/TD]
[TD]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Heres the amplified version for ya..GAL 1:1-3

[FONT=&quot]1 O YOU poor and silly and thoughtless and unreflecting and senseless Galatians! Who has fascinated or bewitched or cast a spell over you, unto whom–right before your very eyes–Jesus Christ (the Messiah) was openly and graphically set forth and portrayed as crucified?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of obeying the Law and doing its works, or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]? [Was it from observing a law of rituals or from a message of faith?][/FONT][FONT=&quot]3 Are you so foolish and so senseless and so silly? Having begun [your new life spiritually] with the [Holy] Spirit, are you now reaching perfection [by dependence] on the flesh?


[/FONT]

 

[FlSnookman7]

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace

amp again

If you seek to be justified and declared righteous and to be given a right standing with God through the Law, you are brought to nothing and so separated (severed) from Christ. You have fallen away from grace (from God's gracious favor and unmerited blessing).

Ironic that the only actual warning about falling from grace is to those who strive to achieve righteousness through the law...

 

[FlSnookman7]

Thats just a small part of Galatians, Jesus' gospel given to paul is all about grace, grace and more grace.

I have of late not been posting as much scripture as the same 3 or 4 people who can't accept Jesus finished work have seen them yet they still can not set aside their pride and trust Jesus. This has been an error on my part as many seem to read these ops so I will start again using more bible and less me.

 

[Cee]

And just to add, LAW is a requirement to be or stay holy before God. So if you're trying to STILL be holy or stay holy outside of Christ. What is your testimony?

 

[Grace777x70]

From my understanding: works-based salvationists make it a requirement in order to stay saved. They will allow a person to be saved without works, but then once saved they need to know they can lose their salvation. Of course, they don't teach this to a person before they get saved, this is the "fine print".

"Hey new convert. I'm glad you are saved. By the way you know how I said it was a free gift? Well, it's free, but there's a few rules you need to follow to keep it..."

This mindset comes from thinking people will sin if they have freedom to do so. It's backwards. Because while they are focusing on keeping people from sinning, God is focusing on righteousness. Grace gives people freedom to love. They are no longer under the bondage of sin.

Of course, many works-based salvations bristle under the thought of telling people they are free of sin. So while they use the same fear they are under to further enslave those who struggle with sin. They don't actually give them a gospel that will set them free. Many times I've found they are jealous of other peoples' freedom. Scripture talks about these people in detail.

But here's my biggest issue:

The idea which I don't agree with at all is essentially in one way or another: "Not only will you not be free, but you're also going to feel shame and condemnation for being just a worthless human." This is the gospel to many religious minded people. And to those who teach freedom, they call, "greasy grace". But I think a grace that doesn't actually set people free is "greasy".

I agree...

I have never heard anyone say "Go out and sin all you want" and "do not obey Jesus" and I have listened to over a thousand different messages from various teachers of the grace of Christ

People do get stuck in various things that are destructive but the real Christian does not want to be in that. They want to walk free from those things - not live in them happily.

IMO This is why we need to be preaching grace as only the grace of Christ has the power to change a person from the inside out. We can temporarily change ourselves outwardly by our own self-effort and human will but usually that does not last.

As we see Christ and keep our eyes on Him and in His finished work for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to manifest our true nature in our new creations in Christ. We are created in righteousness and holiness. We need to participate in this process and desire to live by the spirit within.

The true Christian that is living in continuous sin is the most miserable person on the planet. ( there are believers that go to church every week and read their bibles and pray all the time and they can be in this category as well as the person out shooting heroin in their arms )

He is living against his true nature on the inside and is constantly trying to cover up this miserableness. This describes those that deliberately refuse to even desire to walk in who they are in Christ and perhaps in some cases they are not really "in Christ" at all.

Perhaps they are in fact "in Christ" but have never really heard the gospel of the grace of Christ and thus live defeated by various things? I'll let the angels at the end of the ages separate the tares from the wheat.

I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus ) because they could not live this religious Christian life that was being preached to them. They loved Jesus " in their heart" but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church.

Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and were never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The legalists keep preaching at them to change!

The only change that is effective is from the true manifestation of the life of Jesus that is already in us - in our new creation and that only comes with the true message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

I believe there are thousands of Christians like this but I also believe the Lord is bringing them back to Him - only this time it will be based on the true knowledge of Him and His love and grace for them.

 

[dcontroversal]

From my understanding: works-based salvationists make it a requirement in order to stay saved. They will allow a person to be saved without works, but then once saved they need to know they can lose their salvation. Of course, they don't teach this to a person before they get saved, this is the "fine print".

"Hey new convert. I'm glad you are saved. By the way you know how I said it was a free gift? Well, it's free, but there's a few rules you need to follow to keep it..."

This mindset comes from thinking people will sin if they have freedom to do so. It's backwards. Because while they are focusing on keeping people from sinning, God is focusing on righteousness. Grace gives people freedom to love. They are no longer under the bondage of sin.

Of course, many works-based salvations bristle under the thought of telling people they are free of sin. So while they use the same fear they are under to further enslave those who struggle with sin. They don't actually give them a gospel that will set them free. Many times I've found they are jealous of other peoples' freedom. Scripture talks about these people in detail.

But here's my biggest issue:

The idea which I don't agree with at all is essentially in one way or another: "Not only will you not be free, but you're also going to feel shame and condemnation for being just a worthless human." This is the gospel to many religious minded people. And to those who teach freedom, they call, "greasy grace". But I think a grace that doesn't actually set people free is "greasy".

Amen to that....I like the play on the word "another" in chapter 1....the word another is used twice...in the Greek it is two different words with two different meanings.....Paul marveled that they had been removed from the gospel of Christ unto another which was not another.....

another 1=different kind
another 2=same kind

They were peddling saved by grace, but kept by works.......a false gospel with no power to save...end of story...teaching saved by grace but kept by works is a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND and it is not the SAME TIME..it is a false gospel, no power to save and is double cursed.....!

 

[Cee]

They get stuck in them because no one is giving them a gospel that will set them free!

Grace properly taught empowers holiness. I help people regularly break free of sin. Not by my power or strength, but by His! And once people understand what actually happened on the cross 2000 years and what they now in Christ have ACCESS to, they don't want sin to meet their needs, they want God to. And that's true repentance.

Repentance is more about what we turn TOWARD and less about what we turn away from.

Jesus said, REPENT for the Kingdom of God is in FRONT of you.

I agree...

I have never heard anyone say "Go out and sin all you want" and "do not obey Jesus" and I have listened to over a thousand different messages from various teachers of the grace of Christ

People do get stuck in various things that are destructive but the real Christian does not want to be in that. They want to walk free from those things - not live in them happily.

IMO This is why we need to be preaching grace as only the grace of Christ has the power to change a person from the inside out. We can temporarily change ourselves outwardly by our own self-effort and human will but usually that does not last.

As we see Christ and keep our eyes on Him and in His finished work for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to manifest our true nature in our new creations in Christ. We are created in righteousness and holiness. We need to participate in this process and desire to live by the spirit within.

The true Christian that is living in continuous sin is the most miserable person on the planet. ( there are believers that go to church every week and read their bibles and pray all the time and they can be in this category as well as the person out shooting heroin in their arms )

He is living against his true nature on the inside and is constantly trying to cover up this miserableness. This describes those that deliberately refuse to even desire to walk in who they are in Christ and perhaps in some cases they are not really "in Christ" at all.

Perhaps they are in fact "in Christ" but have never really heard the gospel of the grace of Christ and thus live defeated by various things? I'll let the angels at the end of the ages separate the tares from the wheat.

I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus ) because they could not live this religious Christian life that was being preached to them. They loved Jesus " in their heart" but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church.

Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and were never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The legalists keep preaching at them to change!

The only change that is effective is from the true manifestation of the life of Jesus that is already in us - in our new creation and that only comes with the true message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

I believe there are thousands of Christians like this but I also believe the Lord is bringing them back to Him - only this time it will be based on the true knowledge of Him and His love and grace for them.

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen to that....I like the play on the word "another" in chapter 1....the word another is used twice...in the Greek it is two different words with two different meanings.....Paul marveled that they had been removed from the gospel of Christ unto another which was not another.....

another 1=different kind
another 2=same kind

They were peddling saved by grace, but kept by works.......a false gospel with no power to save...end of story...teaching saved by grace but kept by works is a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND and it is not the SAME *TIME..it is a false gospel, no power to save and is double cursed.....!

*KIND.....

 

[BenFTW]

*KIND.....

Its time to be kind?

 

[dcontroversal]

Its time to be kind?

Jesus, as our only 100% perfect example, raked false teachers over the coal HAHAH

 

[BenFTW]

Jesus, as our only 100% perfect example, raked false teachers over the coal HAHAH

Yeah, in my experience with this the Lord asked for compassion from me towards them. Sometimes it isn't just a theological issue but a heart one. We've got to keep in mind that one shoe doesn't fit all and for some people their belief system is a matter of abuse and pain. Some people only know love and acceptance through work. Yet God gives freely. Indeed, His Gospel is too good to be true news but is true. His love given before ours. To them this is contrary to their experience. What do they need? Grace and truth.

 

[Cee]

Wise words my friend. I can get spunky at times, but it's wisdom to partner with God.

Yeah, in my experience with this the Lord asked for compassion from me towards them. Sometimes it isn't just a theological issue but a heart one. We've got to keep in mind that one shoe doesn't fit all and for some people their belief system is a matter of abuse and pain. Some people only know love and acceptance through work. Yet God gives freely. Indeed, His Gospel is too good to be true news but is true. His love given before ours. To them this is contrary to their experience. What do they need? Grace and truth.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yeah, in my experience with this the Lord asked for compassion from me towards them. Sometimes it isn't just a theological issue but a heart one. We've got to keep in mind that one shoe doesn't fit all and for some people their belief system is a matter of abuse and pain. Some people only know love and acceptance through work. Yet God gives freely. Indeed, His Gospel is too good to be true news but is true. His love given before ours. To them this is contrary to their experience. What do they need? Grace and truth.

I agree....Jesus without a doubt exercised this love and grace toward the simple deceived, however, the one's doing the leading astray he raked over the coals...blind leaders of the blind and vipers, snakes......

over all I agree though bro....