the gospel of the grace of christ an invite

[eternally-gratefull]

The Gospel. as seen outside of the 4 gospels. (what did the apostles think jesus taught)

Acts 4:10
let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.

Here we have Dr Luke (the same author of the gospel of Luke) quote Peter as saying that according to him, This man stands before you whole based solely on the resurrection of Christ. Whom they crucified.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Here we have Paul agree with Peter. stating that the most important thing Paul taught was Jesus crucified, It was over everything else he every spoke about.

All the bible, and the apostles are in agreement with Jesus.

 

[PeterJens]

I thought many years ago what Jesus preached was very different from Paul, Peter, John etc.

The truth was I did not understand love or my heart and how far I had to walk.

Now love has broken out in me, and I understand how emotions are the expression of how we
are coping and dealing with life, Jesus is pointing the direction, and Paul etc are giving the how.

If love has not broken out in your soul, with an open heart, there will be much confusion and emphasis,
where verses will justify whatever position you take, because the fear of being shown up, or getting it
wrong, or just being overthrown is too great.

The reason why we would die seeing God face to face is we are so contradictatory, and if all the
tensions were resolved in one go, not much would be left. Christ was so different, he was totally resolved
and sorted.

Now just look at your recent past to find out how sorted you are. And whatever theological views you
take will be colored by this. The only hope we have of seeing God is walking with a pure heart.

I could come out with a thousand reasons why so and so fails and be totally wrong, because I do not
see aright, but I can link a possible problem with an obvious failure and justify myself. I can even sound
very wise, but unless I can walk as Jesus walked it means nothing.

The anchor Jesus and the apostles say, is obey Christ, start walking, start living, start having an open
heart and letting your yes be yes and your no be no.

 

[followjesus]

I have come across this type of argument before. We do not disagree with the words
or opinions expressed, they just do not apply to us.

It is like someone going past a speed limit sign, while going faster than the limit and
saying, "I saw the sign but it is for those who do not drive as safely as me, so it does
not apply to me."

A christian used this logic to me once, that cars are now so much safer than they used to
be, so going at the speed limit in an old car is the same as breaking it in a new car. Oh my.

Now to everyone outside this self justification argument, it is opposing the words or limits.
And when this is pointed out, they will say "slander" "liar" "evil person" this slander is as bad
as any horrendous sin, you are judging a believer.

But the truth, ... t-r-u-t-h .... is if you do not listen to Christ and obey you are not his follower
or disciple. If you teach others to rebel also you are a false teacher.

Now good, righteous morality should be the life blood of believers, because this is the Kingdom
of Heaven. And the sign that people are walking in this Kingdom is clean righteous lives.

Somehow in these peoples minds a clean righteous life is a sign of legalism and hypocracy, evil
worse than being a sinner.

Now let me compare this to the enemies point of view. He has the sinners all locked up, lost
confused, doomed, but the righteous, the followers of Christ, he wants them as well, and would
do anything to bring them down.

So who is walking in the ways of the enemy and who is walking in the ways of Christ?

Now dear brothers and sisters you know what I am saying, and that is always enough, Amen.

I share that observation Peter, as any who accept Jesus the Lord. The pharisees of Jesus day saw His miracles Knew the scriptures, it is the things He said they rejected and why He was crucified, Because He spoke Gods truth to those who thought they already knew the truth. no different from believing new age false doctrines, based on ommission, an attemp at craty ommission by saying " we arent denying Jesus words, its just that the Lord and saviors words, arent for us, we accept His suffering on our behalf, we accept that our sins were put upon Him......but His words, naw those are for others who arent in real grace, because real grace means im above Gods word it doesnt apply to me, only the word Grace."

when i came to this place, i had thought " well maybe they just dont understand what the bible actually says because of false teachings like "grace revolution" I have learned though, that false doctrines are a blindfold and you can show them in perfect context Gods word and it doesnt make a difference. being taught to deny thier : sin consciousness rejects any truth they see. they have been taught and accepted a lie no different from eve and then adam, Knowing Gods word, and choosing the other idea that says the opposite. its terribly sad to me how set against Jesus the gog actually makes a person. contradicting the very confession that He is Lord that they claim is salvation. " You are Lord of all Jesus, but dont ever expect that i would believe your words are the Words of my Lord, they just dont apply to me because "grace" has now come through paul. and yet what is inconceivable, is that they omit about half of what paul teaches as well. though they say " it is all paul now" they omit everything He also says of repentance, obedience, righteousness and truth, coming judgement and honoring the Lord that died and rose again.

Im glad i came to this site, now leave with a much better understanding of the true herecy that floods the church because of doctrines like the gog. through observation ive alsu learned its not personal, anyone who speaks the things of Jesus Christ will be hated by the keepers of false doctrines that are for the purpose of Keeping folks at all cost away from Jesus Christ who is the Only Lord there is. hopefully someone who believes scripture, will see past the omission of the serpents lawless grace doctrine. it only highlights to me the need for people to get out of the books telling us how to understand the Bible, and just learn and believe its message, trusting in prayer and the will of God.

 

[followjesus]

The Gospel. as seen outside of the 4 gospels. (what did the apostles think jesus taught)

Acts 4:10
let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.

Here we have Dr Luke (the same author of the gospel of Luke) quote Peter as saying that according to him, This man stands before you whole based solely on the resurrection of Christ. Whom they crucified.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Here we have Paul agree with Peter. stating that the most important thing Paul taught was Jesus crucified, It was over everything else he every spoke about.

All the bible, and the apostles are in agreement with Jesus.

yep they all agree with Jesus. thats why they all teach repentance and obedience to the risen Lord who gave them a very specific commandment after His resurrection.

matthew 28:18-20 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

This sis why they teach all the same things. coming judgement " according to our works" Jesus taught it, paul taught it. repentance of sin Jesus taught it, paul taught it. Love according to Jesus commandments Jesus taught it paul taught it pauls "grace" is no different than Gods Grace that came through Jesus Christ. "Niether do I condemn you....Now go and leave your life of sin"

all of Jesus teachings are in the apostles writings, paul changed nothing concerning anything JESUS said. Jesus taught " you must lay down yourselves pick up your cross and follow me" paul taught " you must crucify the flesh with its passions and desires"

Jesus taught " you too must repent or you will all perish" Paul taught " there must not be even a hint of imuprity, greed or the many lists of sinful behavior paul lists and then makes clear " if you live like this, you will not inherit Gods Kingdom"

My point is really very clear, There is no possible way to change, omit, or de authorize Jesus words in the 4 gospels they are the source of all true Doctrine. to insist there is now a new or different way than through Jesus Christ who is the deliverer of Gods Grace, in His words, and then in His actions.

speaking oif Luke, Luke was a travelling companion to paul, worked with Him spreading the gospel. the gospel of Luke was written TO a predominantly gentile audience. by a companion in the ministry of Jesus, whther paul, or peter there is no dofference in the word of God. its a terrible mistake to think Jesus taught isreal one thing, then died to omit it all and sent paul with the true churches doctrine. thats simply not what is written in the Word of God.

What is written is that Jesus came as savior and Lord of the Whole world. came first to the jews, was rejected resoundingly and then was sent to the gentiles who were excluded beforehand. same exact gospel as taught by Jesus to the Jews first. there is nothing in doctrine to suggest that even one thing Jesus spoke to the jews doesnt apply to the church is my point. the gog causes omission because they simply dont want what JESUS offers His disciples, in thier thinking " grace" is a better offer eternal Life and i dont need to repent of sin or obey God" in fact " anyone who actually puts thier heart and life into serving God with a clean Heart" is somehow not understanding Grace, when really Grace is what taught us to deny ungodliness and live Godly Lives in this world while we wait for Jesus to return.

Grace is found in Jesus and the 4 gospels, in His words and His actions on our behalf that certified full authority over all things in Heaven and earth with His words " that will never pass away" those word of spirit and Life spoken By the Lord and believed fully by the apostles and all true Believers

 

[Grace777x70]

What may be happening to you as a few have suggested to you in the past is that because some people do not agree with and are in reality "opposed" to your "application" of some things in the interpretation of the 4 gospels - you then label these people as being dis-obedient to Christ and as being opposed to the 4 gospels which is complete nonsense.

No one ever says that sinning is ok or to be dis-obedient to the Lord. That is something you have in your own head. People that believe in the finished work of Christ always say to preach and teach the grace of God because it is the only think that "teaches" us to deny ungodliness and to live uprightly in this present world. Titus 2:11-12.

People have quoted that over 200x times - perhaps it's time to start to believe what Paul has said about Christ's work and start speaking the truth of what people are really saying.

I encourage you Jason to fix your hope completely on the grace that comes to you at the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. Without understanding what happened from the cross to the throne - you will be forever "trying to do the Christian life". - always be trying to measure up.

It is impossible for anyone to live the true Christian life - except for Christ Himself living in and through us to a hurt and dying world. I encourage you to learn of Him.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

"complete nonsense" is a recurring dismissal by G7.

The problem with this kind of language, is anyone can say this and mean very different
things.

If a believer is speaking nonsense, then they cannot be a believer. It is the equivalent of
calling someone a fool.

If Jesus says "Love one another as I have loved you" He means it.
The question we have to answer is what is this love and how.

For many love of anybody is so far from their experience, just honest open
sharing is something they do not do.

Unfortunately my families summary of anybody on this forum is they are
spending too much time with weirdos and not enough in the real world.

This may unfortunately reflect it is easier to type and see what others say,
than have to deal with real face to face intimacy and hurts of rejections from
others. What this environment does offer though is a very wide audience to
test opinion and see how fixed or otherwise people are, which is very eye openning.

 

[followjesus]

"complete nonsense" is a recurring dismissal by G7.

The problem with this kind of language, is anyone can say this and mean very different
things.

If a believer is speaking nonsense, then they cannot be a believer. It is the equivalent of
calling someone a fool.

If Jesus says "Love one another as I have loved you" He means it.
The question we have to answer is what is this love and how.

For many love of anybody is so far from their experience, just honest open
sharing is something they do not do.

Unfortunately my families summary of anybody on this forum is they are
spending too much time with weirdos and not enough in the real world.

This may unfortunately reflect it is easier to type and see what others say,
than have to deal with real face to face intimacy and hurts of rejections from
others. What this environment does offer though is a very wide audience to
test opinion and see how fixed or otherwise people are, which is very eye openning.

indeed nearly every encounter is this way, ive learned that Bruce is good Guy with a good heart for people and really have no issues with him or anyone else, just not to great at discussing doctrine with that particular doctrine pushers, its just frustrating how the doctrine operates makes it seem really destructive to me anyways. because of all the explainations why Gods word doesnt apply after Jesus did all he did for us.

But everyone has a right to choose thier beliefs and share them peacefully...its just really important to me, to stick to the word as we learn it and grow in understanding and perseverance because get off track a little and it effects our minds and hearts in damaging ways. I believe we have to stick with what Jesus taught above all else because He died for us ill never let that go for certain.

lol yeah im kinda glad i get back to work at the first of the year, these past few vacation weeks i spent too much time here. I find a problem with text is the "tone" of things is often mistaken. doesnt always read like a person would have said it

 

[followjesus]

What may be happening to you as a few have suggested to you in the past is that because some people do not agree with and are in reality "opposed" to your "application" of some things in the interpretation of the 4 gospels - you then label these people as being dis-obedient to Christ and as being opposed to the 4 gospels which is complete nonsense.

No one ever says that sinning is ok or to be dis-obedient to the Lord. That is something you have in your own head. People that believe in the finished work of Christ always say to preach and teach the grace of God because it is the only think that "teaches" us to deny ungodliness and to live uprightly in this present world. Titus 2:11-12.

People have quoted that over 200x times - perhaps it's time to start to believe what Paul has said about Christ's work and start speaking the truth of what people are really saying.

I encourage you Jason to fix your hope completely on the grace that comes to you at the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. Without understanding what happened from the cross to the throne - you will be forever "trying to do the Christian life". - always be trying to measure up.

It is impossible for anyone to live the true Christian life - except for Christ Himself living in and through us to a hurt and dying world. I encourage you to learn of Him.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Bruce lol ive made it clear to you, i do not care who agrees with me, because I AGREE WITH THE LORD and His words. i will never part from that because I know He is the way and truth and Life, that there is no other way. and I know wherethe grace im to fix on is it is here bruce the only grace available is here

" Fix youre eyes on Jesus the author and perfector of faith." the only " opinion" that i concern myself with Bruce, is the Word of God, thats it, the Living Word of God, the Word made Flesh, i do not worship a cross of wood, or a five letter word " grace" I fix my eyes, my heart, my mind , my Life on Jesus Christ as instructed By the Word of God. Grace is found in Jesus along with the truth that keeps it real. you cant take one without the other, doesnt work, and i would never want to not honor My Lord and saviors word even if there was a loophole, Im not my own, I was bought at the Highest of all prices, Jesus bled, suffered, was put to shame and died for me. whether you agree or any other human,

I owe Jesus Christ EVERYTHING until He comes with Our great reward. its too late to corrupt me, i got hold of the truth that is in Jesus ! and i will never let go. Just Like Gods word says " when you do it when you begin giving to the needy in the name of Jesus and the gospel, stuff like that doing the things He says. it proves its worth and truth. ill stick to Jesus and continue understanding what spirit is concealed in the gog. im actually happier following after Him than i ever was following myself. couldnt be graced anymore than to have His words living inside......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

yep they all agree with Jesus. thats why they all teach repentance and obedience to the risen Lord who gave them a very specific commandment after His resurrection.

Non of them teach obedience is a requirement for salvation. They teach obedience is a response and natural reaction to salvation.

The very verse I posted proves the person was saved based not on how good he was. Or how obedience he was. But based soleley on the resurrection of Christ. Period.

matthew 28:18-20 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

Yep. a prety amazing thing..

1. Make them disciples.
2. After they are saved, Teach them to observe all I have commanded.

Not teach them to observe all I say, and THEN they will be saved.. Not gonna find that anywhere

This sis why they teach all the same things. coming judgement " according to our works" Jesus taught it, paul taught it. repentance of sin Jesus taught it, paul taught it. Love according to Jesus commandments Jesus taught it paul taught it pauls "grace" is no different than Gods Grace that came through Jesus Christ. "Niether do I condemn you....Now go and leave your life of sin"

1. She was saved, "Grace" Then told to go sin no more.. She was never told go and sin no more, and I MAY NOT Condemn you.
2. No one taught obedience FOR salvation, That is works, that is the VERY thing the pharisees taught, the very thing the jews tried to destroy the churhc of paul by teaching.

do you want to be like the judiaser demanding works, or paul preaching grace?

Grace and works do not mix, Paul was very sure to point this out, "if it is of grace it is no longer work, otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE"

all of Jesus teachings are in the apostles writings, paul changed nothing concerning anything JESUS said. Jesus taught " you must lay down yourselves pick up your cross and follow me" paul taught " you must crucify the flesh with its passions and desires"

Not to be saved, But to live a blessed life. Thats the point you are missing. Both taught salvation by the death and ressurection of Christ, You missed the total point of the second passage I posted. Paul said th emost important thing was christ crucified, Everything else he taught was meaningless. Because unless you are saved YOU CAN OBEY ALL YOU WANT it will be what the OT calls bloody rags.

if you want to hand God bloody rags on judgment day, abd say here God this is what I deserve heaven, Feel free.

I will be truthful. and tell God I deserve hell. But he promised to save me based on his your death and ressurection.

Jesus taught " you too must repent or you will all perish"

Yep true, SO when yare you going to repent of dead works, and recieve the grace of Christ? I ask, because I see no proof you have put your works on the back burner and trusted completely in Christ. You seem to still be preaching works,,

Paul taught " there must not be even a hint of imuprity, greed or the many lists of sinful behavior paul lists and then makes clear " if you live like this, you will not inherit Gods Kingdom"

Then no one wil get to heaven, Please do not tell me you are sinless..

My point is really very clear, There is no possible way to change, omit, or de authorize Jesus words in the 4 gospels they are the source of all true Doctrine. to insist there is now a new or different way than through Jesus Christ who is the deliverer of Gods Grace, in His words, and then in His actions.

Yep your right, there is not. Jesus NEVER TAUGHT WORKS. He taught if we could be good enough to earn salvation, he would have stayed in heaven, As he even asked the father, Father if there is ANY OTHER WAY, et this cup pass from me.

God said there is no other way, SO why are you teaching another way?

speaking oif Luke, Luke was a travelling companion to paul, worked with Him spreading the gospel. the gospel of Luke was written TO a predominantly gentile audience. by a companion in the ministry of Jesus, whther paul, or peter there is no dofference in the word of God. its a terrible mistake to think Jesus taught isreal one thing, then died to omit it all and sent paul with the true churches doctrine. thats simply not what is written in the Word of God.

Your right its not. and I never said it was. So get over it!

What is written is that Jesus came as savior and Lord of the Whole world. came first to the jews, was rejected resoundingly and then was sent to the gentiles who were excluded beforehand. same exact gospel as taught by Jesus to the Jews first. there is nothing in doctrine to suggest that even one thing Jesus spoke to the jews doesnt apply to the church is my point. the gog causes omission because they simply dont want what JESUS offers His disciples, in thier thinking " grace" is a better offer eternal Life and i dont need to repent of sin or obey God" in fact " anyone who actually puts thier heart and life into serving God with a clean Heart" is somehow not understanding Grace, when really Grace is what taught us to deny ungodliness and live Godly Lives in this world while we wait for Jesus to return.

Grace is found in Jesus and the 4 gospels, in His words and His actions on our behalf that certified full authority over all things in Heaven and earth with His words " that will never pass away" those word of spirit and Life spoken By the Lord and believed fully by the apostles and all true Believers

John the baptist said it best.

Behold the LAMB of GOD who TAKES THE SIN of the world.

when are you going to trust Christ, and stop tryusting self?

The lamb gave his life, sain by the high priest, and because of it, ALL the sin of the people were forgiven. Haf to be done once a year, because as hebrews said, it could never remove sin, let alone the high priest had his own sin to get forgiven.

But he, being our pure high priest set down forever.

Paul, Peter, Luke, John, Mathew, Jesus, All of them tought salvation by the CROSS. nothign more nothing less.

if you add works, you preach a different gospel. in which I direct you to galations 1.

 

[followjesus]

The problem in all these discussions is priorities.
Sin cannot be compromised with.

And sin is not the odd reaction to something, or inappropriate thought, it is intentional
actions, words, choice to go in a particular direction shown by something that goes over
the mark.

To the person lost in sin, they do not see the mark and justify with long explanations.

So Jesus's eternal words can be junked. Odd that. A word that is eternal can be ignored
and only applies to jews.

"Love one another as I have loved you."
"Love your enemies"
"Love your neighbour as yourself"

These are principles of the Kingdom of heaven and all who are in the Kingdom
of Heaven. They are reflected by Paul, Peter, James, John etc.

But for some they bring condemnation and failure, and in their eyes sin.

Now a liar will always have his excuses, and the content of what he is talking about
will be ignored, because he is just excusing things that make them feel guilty.

God calls us to accept guilt, to work through the issues and repent and follow Him.

Sounds like avoidence is the ethic being preached which is rebellion and the ways
of the world.

that is exactly right. if the gospel is taught " your sin no longer applies, forget the word of God, ignore the many warnings" sinners will never come to repentance. never will a person who lives in sin, hear " you will never be punished becaue Jsus died" the sinners mind will never change. But when the gospel is preached, Gods word Has power to save even the worst.

If we Know Jesus died for us, there is then absolutely no reason to seek for ways to omit His gospel. Nor any reason to change the things we dont wish to hear because of our own sin, because those things work with Grace to bring righteousness while His teachings keep us from condemnation providing the patience of God in leading us to repentance. The bottom line with any doctrine is what did Jesus say of everything?

 

[followjesus]

Non of them teach obedience is a requirement for salvation. They teach obedience is a response and natural reaction to salvation.

The very verse I posted proves the person was saved based not on how good he was. Or how obedience he was. But based soleley on the resurrection of Christ. Period.



Yep. a prety amazing thing..

1. Make them disciples.
2. After they are saved, Teach them to observe all I have commanded.

Not teach them to observe all I say, and THEN they will be saved.. Not gonna find that anywhere



1. She was saved, "Grace" Then told to go sin no more.. She was never told go and sin no more, and I MAY NOT Condemn you.
2. No one taught obedience FOR salvation, That is works, that is the VERY thing the pharisees taught, the very thing the jews tried to destroy the churhc of paul by teaching.

do you want to be like the judiaser demanding works, or paul preaching grace?

Grace and works do not mix, Paul was very sure to point this out, "if it is of grace it is no longer work, otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE"



Not to be saved, But to live a blessed life. Thats the point you are missing. Both taught salvation by the death and ressurection of Christ, You missed the total point of the second passage I posted. Paul said th emost important thing was christ crucified, Everything else he taught was meaningless. Because unless you are saved YOU CAN OBEY ALL YOU WANT it will be what the OT calls bloody rags.

if you want to hand God bloody rags on judgment day, abd say here God this is what I deserve heaven, Feel free.

I will be truthful. and tell God I deserve hell. But he promised to save me based on his your death and ressurection.





Yep true, SO when yare you going to repent of dead works, and recieve the grace of Christ? I ask, because I see no proof you have put your works on the back burner and trusted completely in Christ. You seem to still be preaching works,,



Then no one wil get to heaven, Please do not tell me you are sinless..



Yep your right, there is not. Jesus NEVER TAUGHT WORKS. He taught if we could be good enough to earn salvation, he would have stayed in heaven, As he even asked the father, Father if there is ANY OTHER WAY, et this cup pass from me.

God said there is no other way, SO why are you teaching another way?


Your right its not. and I never said it was. So get over it!


John the baptist said it best.

Behold the LAMB of GOD who TAKES THE SIN of the world.

when are you going to trust Christ, and stop tryusting self?

The lamb gave his life, sain by the high priest, and because of it, ALL the sin of the people were forgiven. Haf to be done once a year, because as hebrews said, it could never remove sin, let alone the high priest had his own sin to get forgiven.

But he, being our pure high priest set down forever.

Paul, Peter, Luke, John, Mathew, Jesus, All of them tought salvation by the CROSS. nothign more nothing less.

if you add works, you preach a different gospel. in which I direct you to galations 1.

why cant you show any scriptures supporting your explaination of things look here

romans 2:5-11 "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."

obedience rewquired for salvation.

romans 6:15-What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but YE HAVE OBEYED from the heart THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE which was delivered you. 18Being THEN MADE FREE from sin, ye became the SERVANTS OF righteousness."

obedience required for salvation.

1 john 3:7-10 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.:"

Obedience to God required after being born of God.

all ofthem taught the same gospel Jesus taught.

2 thess :1:8-10 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."

it is absolutely required to reopent of sin and obey The true Gospel spoken by Jesus Christ who will judge each operson according to their works, after having believed in Him, because if we believe Jesus, He is the onesayong all the things taught about repenting and obedience. if " grace" does not lead a person to obey God, it is worthless and not Gods Grace. Grace saves, by providing righteousness through Jesus Christ and the true Gospel. That " imparted righteousness" you all speak of is impated through the words of spirit and truth.

 

[followjesus]

Non of them teach obedience is a requirement for salvation. They teach obedience is a response and natural reaction to salvation.

The very verse I posted proves the person was saved based not on how good he was. Or how obedience he was. But based soleley on the resurrection of Christ. Period.



Yep. a prety amazing thing..

1. Make them disciples.
2. After they are saved, Teach them to observe all I have commanded.

Not teach them to observe all I say, and THEN they will be saved.. Not gonna find that anywhere



1. She was saved, "Grace" Then told to go sin no more.. She was never told go and sin no more, and I MAY NOT Condemn you.
2. No one taught obedience FOR salvation, That is works, that is the VERY thing the pharisees taught, the very thing the jews tried to destroy the churhc of paul by teaching.

do you want to be like the judiaser demanding works, or paul preaching grace?

Grace and works do not mix, Paul was very sure to point this out, "if it is of grace it is no longer work, otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE"



Not to be saved, But to live a blessed life. Thats the point you are missing. Both taught salvation by the death and ressurection of Christ, You missed the total point of the second passage I posted. Paul said th emost important thing was christ crucified, Everything else he taught was meaningless. Because unless you are saved YOU CAN OBEY ALL YOU WANT it will be what the OT calls bloody rags.

if you want to hand God bloody rags on judgment day, abd say here God this is what I deserve heaven, Feel free.

I will be truthful. and tell God I deserve hell. But he promised to save me based on his your death and ressurection.





Yep true, SO when yare you going to repent of dead works, and recieve the grace of Christ? I ask, because I see no proof you have put your works on the back burner and trusted completely in Christ. You seem to still be preaching works,,



Then no one wil get to heaven, Please do not tell me you are sinless..



Yep your right, there is not. Jesus NEVER TAUGHT WORKS. He taught if we could be good enough to earn salvation, he would have stayed in heaven, As he even asked the father, Father if there is ANY OTHER WAY, et this cup pass from me.

God said there is no other way, SO why are you teaching another way?


Your right its not. and I never said it was. So get over it!


John the baptist said it best.

Behold the LAMB of GOD who TAKES THE SIN of the world.

when are you going to trust Christ, and stop tryusting self?

The lamb gave his life, sain by the high priest, and because of it, ALL the sin of the people were forgiven. Haf to be done once a year, because as hebrews said, it could never remove sin, let alone the high priest had his own sin to get forgiven.

But he, being our pure high priest set down forever.

Paul, Peter, Luke, John, Mathew, Jesus, All of them tought salvation by the CROSS. nothign more nothing less.

if you add works, you preach a different gospel. in which I direct you to galations 1.

if you add works, you preach a different gospel. in which I direct you to galations 1.

lol im sure you would lead me to any scripture denying all the rest. the "different gospel" is anything different from Jesus words in the 4 GOSPELS. the epistles dont give the gospel, the gospels arethe gospel. The gospel according to matthew, mark Luke and John."

The epistles are teachings from the gospel testifying to the church to believe and obey the gospel. There is no other Gospel aopart from The gospel spoken into existance By Jesus Christ. the only reason you folks see pauls teaching about grace and belief is because Jesus spoke it in the gospel. the reason you see paul speaking about the judgement seat of Christ, is because Jesus spoke it in the gospel. thats how all of the epuistles are, they are teachings from the true Gospel and will never oppose even a single principle therin. Jesus is the Lord, the apostles understood that and did Just as commanded. they went onto all the world and preached the same Gospel taught By the Lord. anything other than that is foolishness. there is One Lord, One faith, One Gospel, On God and Father of all. and His libing word will never change. spoken By Jesus ois eternally the Lords word.

 

[PeterJens]

Non of them teach obedience is a requirement for salvation.

Now the above statement from a legalistic point of view sounds true.

Imagine being an adopted son in a family or daughter. Your dad then calls you in for food,
and you say get lost. The ask you to come in for bed, and you just run off to party,
and live your own style.

Relationship is about openness, trust, sharing, communication both ways.
You can have the legal rules that say you have a relationship while denying
its existance by your behaviour.

But maybe people who are so poor at relationship and belonging find it impossible to accept
there is obligation as part of being part of a family.

Now a legalist who has tried to follow without love just rule keeping is still a
legalist if they give up rule keeping.

It is love in your heart that shows Jesus is your Lord and brother.
Let us praise His Holy name together, that in eternity we have this place of love
with Him.

 

[followjesus]

The Gospel. as seen outside of the 4 gospels. (what did the apostles think jesus taught)

Acts 4:10
let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.

Here we have Dr Luke (the same author of the gospel of Luke) quote Peter as saying that according to him, This man stands before you whole based solely on the resurrection of Christ. Whom they crucified.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Here we have Paul agree with Peter. stating that the most important thing Paul taught was Jesus crucified, It was over everything else he every spoke about.

All the bible, and the apostles are in agreement with Jesus.

Have you considered why it is so important that Jesus was crucified and resurrected? Why that part of the message is important?

The prophets all along were saying the Christ would die for our iniquities, and would be raised to Life and Justify many. the importance of Paul preaching theat Jesus died and was raised again, is proof that He is the Christ who was to come. The Chroist would not only die and be raised though, its important to believe He did because that proves He is the Lord who would speak the true Judgements of God. Who would speak things that were hidden from mankind from the beginning, The savior promised By God, the Prophet promised By moses who says

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."

The Christ is the One we hear and accept and follow, the importance of His death and resurrection is to prove that Jesus was indeed the messiah, who has many roles and was to be the Lord of all having all the authority of God, speaking Gods Word. thats why we have to believe He was resurrected because it proves everything He said and His authority.

 

[followjesus]

Now the above statement from a legalistic point of view sounds true.

Imagine being an adopted son in a family or daughter. Your dad then calls you in for food,
and you say get lost. The ask you to come in for bed, and you just run off to party,
and live your own style.

Relationship is about openness, trust, sharing, communication both ways.
You can have the legal rules that say you have a relationship while denying
its existance by your behaviour.

But maybe people who are so poor at relationship and belonging find it impossible to accept
there is obligation as part of being part of a family.

Now a legalist who has tried to follow without love just rule keeping is still a
legalist if they give up rule keeping.

It is love in your heart that shows Jesus is your Lord and brother.
Let us praise His Holy name together, that in eternity we have this place of love
with Him.

good stuff there peter, i think that some dont understand that Gods word is for us, for our safe keeping and His warnings and command of repentance, are for us because He isnt saying " ill kill you if you sin" but " if you continue in sin, you will die" <<< thats a loving father to warn of certain danger, rather than letting thier child die without warning them of the danger, or pretending there is no danger.

When i was a kid, i was playng with my sousin outside we were rolling hot weels soaked in gas lighting them on fire and rolling them up a ramp. My dad looked out the window and came and scolded my, made me go inside, i was of course mad because it was fun, My dad however saw the danger in Gasoline and fire and even though i was having fun, he put a stop to it.He also told my cousin to stop, my sousin put the gas away and stayed outside, i was taken in and made to siton the couch for an hour and my dad was explaining how it was dangerous. a few minutes later, my cousin started screaming and my dad went flying outside my cousin had soaked His pants in Gasoline while playing and caught himslef on fire, ended up burning 85 percent of His body, was in a burn center for 2 years.

I noticed that my pants had also on the bottoms been soaked in gas though not much of it.....I often wonder, Had my dad just overlooked the danger if i also would have caught on fire......That is why Gods word restricts us in certain things, and calls for repentance of sin, because sin is gas and fire for the soul and Our Heavenly Father is present and watching over us for our good, He knows best about our eternal Life, even when we feel like doing what we want to do unaware of the danger.