the gospel of the grace of christ an invite

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Jun 1, 2016
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#1
Luke 1:1-4 "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, 2Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; 3It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, 4That thou mightest KNOW the certainty of THOSE THINGS, wherein thou hast been INSTRUCTED."


The gospel of Luke Begins with a very clear statement of why Luke wrote down His account of the gospel. Thus, we have " the gospel according to Luke" it is the doctrine in the gospels that makes up the new covenant entirely, Just as the mosaic Law makes up the old covenant. Just as the priests who came after moses had no authority to change even a single word in the book of the Law, the apostles who came after Jesus had and have no authority to change a single word. This idea that there is a third covenant or a different gospel from that Of Jesus Christ is absolutely without merit.<<< this is my firm belief.


Paul says very clearly more than once that Christ Jesus, is the head over everthing for the church. More than that, Just as Jesus proclaimed, paul witnesses that Jesus is the head over everything in Heaven and on earth. I would challenge anyone, to find the scriptures in the Bible that suggest that Jesus words every one dont apply to His church. Not asking for an explaination void of scripture, not asking for a scripture like romans 8:1, and then an explaination of "what this really means through the "grace lens" But actual scripture saying the things the gog doctrine says.


Pretty fair to answer this challenge for those who consistantly oppose the truth " that Jesus words are the words of authority over the church of God" since the doctrine has convinced so many that His words," though they are good and true, Just all arent meant for christians" to be clear, I have heard the theories and opinions, Im asking for the scripture that actually says the things the theories and opinions say. since the " real doctrine" is all grace surely there would be a clear teaching of this found in Gods written word. surely if " Jesus words arent all meant for you" there will be a scripture making this clear. Surely doctrine should agree with the word of God, and surely it will be written......


So rather than continue with things like " well your dumb, you write too many words" or " sum up everything in a sentance" " or your a works for salvationist" instead of youthful jargin and a never ending difference of opinions, Lets actually go to scripture, have a normal conversation, with the intent of discovering the truth of what the bible says. Going into it with the purpose of correcting doctrine by agreeing with the scriptures that are meant to teach us the actual truth of all things pertaning to Gods Kingdom.


So this is an offer for" the gospel of the grace of Christ" to share those clear scriptures that teach the things " the gospel of the grace of Christ" teaches, since the 4 gospels " arent" His real gospel, and paul actually taught the real gospel. Someone who preaches this" gospel of the grace of Christ" what scriptures build this faith? I have said many times those scriptures do not exist.....i invite those passonate about" the gospel of the grace of christ" those with enough maturity to have a discussion on an adult christian level. Lets get to the bottom of this according to the Word of God.


ideas Like "Obeying Jesus the Lord, is works of the Law" where are the scriptures to make this connection? same with any of the ideas where are the scriptures saying any of these things? the floor belongs to anyone who actually believes those scriptures exist, correct my thinking since i hold to the 4 gospels being every word 100 percent valid authority and doctrine that cannot ever be omitted......if theres some better way than going through Jesus and His words please show that to me.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#2
"The Resurrection, and its consequences were the "gospel" or good news which the Christian brought: what we call the 'gospels,' the narratives of our Lord's life and death, were composed later for the benefit of those who had already accepted the gospel. They were in no sense the basis of Christianity: they were written for those already converted. The miracle of the Resurrection, and the theology of that miracle, comes first: the biography comes later as a comment on it. Nothing could be more unhistorical than to pick out selected sayings of Christ from the gospels and to regard those as the datum and the rest of the New Testament as a construction upon it."


-C. S. Lewis
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#3
The proclamation of Christ produces the profession of Christ, but the explanation of Christ is what produces the experience of Christ.

Believers can never fully enjoy the triumph of the gospel and express Christ in this world victoriously until there has been an explanation and exposition of the vivid details of the redemptive work of Christ that has gained a foothold in our renewed minds.

The 4 gospels were eyewitness accounts of the historical events in the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. Christianity is based on the veracity of these events as having occurred in real time, in all historicity and specificity.

Nevertheless it is the unveiling of the spiritual realities of these events that relates to the believer in Christ. This is found in the revelation that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul.

The 4 gospels are the proclamation of the gospel. They disclose to us what men saw and heard. Acts of the apostles is the demonstration of the gospel, but it is Paul's letters which give us an explanation of the gospel. It is the Pauline Epistles that are the constitution of this church age.

Paul's epistles explain what happened from the cross, death, burial, quickening and resurrection to the being seated at the right hand of the Father. Without these epistles we would have no idea what Jesus our Lord actually accomplished for us.

Paul was taught by Jesus Christ Himself to explain His gospel = to reveal the mystery that was hidden in God until it was revealed by Christ to Paul. The mystery being Christ Himself and the riches of that glory is that Christ is in us and we are in Him!
 
P

Preacha24-7

Guest
#4
Christians are suppose to teach one another the Word of God. The problem is too
many Christians don't have the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, and they're not strong
enough to know the difference between the true gospel and a false gospel.It's
time for Christians to get filled with the power of the Holy Ghost, study the Word,
learn how to pray, develop a good relationship with the Lord, and stop trying
to avoid persecution.
1. But ye shall receive power, after the Holy Ghost has come upon you Acts1:8
2.Saved by Grace not works Ephesians2:8-9
3. No condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus Rom8:1-2
4.Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
2Timothy3:12
5.For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans3:23
6. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love
God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. Romans8:28
3 enemies of a Christian
1.the world
2. the flesh
3. the devil
God put us on this earth to win, so don't listen to Satan's lies.
7. We are more than conquerers through Him who loves us Rom8:37
8. Greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world 1John4:4
Recognize the power and authority that God has given us in the name of
Jesus over Satan and his demonic forces. Stop being afraid of the devil.
God is greater than Satan. He is no match for the King of Kings.
To God be the Glory Preacha24-7 Evangelist to the Streets (Street Ministry)
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
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#5
"The Resurrection, and its consequences were the "gospel" or good news which the Christian brought: what we call the 'gospels,' the narratives of our Lord's life and death, were composed later for the benefit of those who had already accepted the gospel. They were in no sense the basis of Christianity: they were written for those already converted. The miracle of the Resurrection, and the theology of that miracle, comes first: the biography comes later as a comment on it. Nothing could be more unhistorical than to pick out selected sayings of Christ from the gospels and to regard those as the datum and the rest of the New Testament as a construction upon it."


-C. S. Lewis
So i ask for scripture and get a quote from c.s. lewis?
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
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#6
The proclamation of Christ produces the profession of Christ, but the explanation of Christ is what produces the experience of Christ.

Believers can never fully enjoy the triumph of the gospel and express Christ in this world victoriously until there has been an explanation and exposition of the vivid details of the redemptive work of Christ that has gained a foothold in our renewed minds.

The 4 gospels were eyewitness accounts of the historical events in the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. Christianity is based on the veracity of these events as having occurred in real time, in all historicity and specificity.

Nevertheless it is the unveiling of the spiritual realities of these events that relates to the believer in Christ. This is found in the revelation that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul.

The 4 gospels are the proclamation of the gospel. They disclose to us what men saw and heard. Acts of the apostles is the demonstration of the gospel, but it is Paul's letters which give us an explanation of the gospel. It is the Pauline Epistles that are the constitution of this church age.

Paul's epistles explain what happened from the cross, death, burial, quickening and resurrection to the being seated at the right hand of the Father. Without these epistles we would have no idea what Jesus our Lord actually accomplished for us.

Paul was taught by Jesus Christ Himself to explain His gospel = to reveal the mystery that was hidden in God until it was revealed by Christ to Paul. The mystery being Christ Himself and the riches of that glory is that Christ is in us and we are in Him!
So again i ask you guys who preach the gospel of the grace of Christ as what the bible teaches, and get someones interpretation of what it actually says without any scripture saying those things? let me ask in few words to be clear

Can any of you guys who are so opposed to the 4 gospels being fully applicable to the church of Jesus Christ, show any scriptures that omit the things you claim dont apply? in other words can you show me the reason from scripture you are so convinced of the things you tell others are The gospel?

all i hear is " were not saying that" anytime i think i understand what ur saying. im asking for you to explain from biblical principles, from scripture how the gospel of grace replaced the 4 gospels meaning Jesus words and also the events of Hius suffering and death. wheres the foundation of scripture that conclude the gospel of Grace and its validity? this is a chance for you guys to say what you are saying, use all the scripture you wish, teach me the gospel of Grace and why thats the message from God for salvation thats my genuine atempt to understand the gog from you all who believe it. certainly you understand it
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#8
Christians are suppose to teach one another the Word of God. The problem is too
many Christians don't have the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, and they're not strong
enough to know the difference between the true gospel and a false gospel.It's
time for Christians to get filled with the power of the Holy Ghost, study the Word,
learn how to pray, develop a good relationship with the Lord, and stop trying
to avoid persecution.
1. But ye shall receive power, after the Holy Ghost has come upon you Acts1:8
2.Saved by Grace not works Ephesians2:8-9
3. No condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus Rom8:1-2
4.Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
2Timothy3:12
5.For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans3:23
6. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love
God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. Romans8:28
3 enemies of a Christian
1.the world
2. the flesh
3. the devil
God put us on this earth to win, so don't listen to Satan's lies.
7. We are more than conquerers through Him who loves us Rom8:37
8. Greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world 1John4:4
Recognize the power and authority that God has given us in the name of
Jesus over Satan and his demonic forces. Stop being afraid of the devil.
God is greater than Satan. He is no match for the King of Kings.
To God be the Glory Preacha24-7 Evangelist to the Streets (Street Ministry)
Thanks for using some scripture and good worth. i would add 3 sets of scripture to what u shared

2 john 1:9 "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son"

1 timothy 6:3-5 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself."

and john 14:15-24 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#10
So again i ask you guys who preach the gospel of the grace of Christ as what the bible teaches, and get someones interpretation of what it actually says without any scripture saying those things? let me ask in few words to be clear

Can any of you guys who are so opposed to the 4 gospels being fully applicable to the church of Jesus Christ, show any scriptures that omit the things you claim dont apply? in other words can you show me the reason from scripture you are so convinced of the things you tell others are The gospel?

all i hear is " were not saying that" anytime i think i understand what ur saying. im asking for you to explain from biblical principles, from scripture how the gospel of grace replaced the 4 gospels meaning Jesus words and also the events of Hius suffering and death. wheres the foundation of scripture that conclude the gospel of Grace and its validity? this is a chance for you guys to say what you are saying, use all the scripture you wish, teach me the gospel of Grace and why thats the message from God for salvation thats my genuine atempt to understand the gog from you all who believe it. certainly you understand it
No one is "opposed to the 4 gospels" that I have seen anywhere around here - that is your bias slant and it is entirely untrue.

What may be happening to you as a few have suggested to you in the past is that because some people do not agree with and are in reality "opposed" to your "application" of some things in the interpretation of the 4 gospels - you then label these people as being dis-obedient to Christ and as being opposed to the 4 gospels which is complete nonsense.

If you are so obsessed about all this - then pick a theme or verse and let people say what they believe about it. Perhaps that will satisfy your desires in this OP?

 
Jun 1, 2016
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#11
No one is "opposed to the 4 gospels" that I have seen anywhere around here - that is your bias slant and it is entirely untrue.

What may be happening to you as a few have suggested to you in the past is that because some people do not agree with and are in reality "opposed" to your "application" of some things in the interpretation of the 4 gospels - you then label these people as being dis-obedient to Christ and as being opposed to the 4 gospels which is complete nonsense.

If you are so obsessed about all this - then pick a theme or verse and let people say what they believe about it. Perhaps that will satisfy your desires in this OP?


Right, so where are the scriptures that form the gospel of the grace of Christ ? its as if they dont exist.

where are the scriptures that say anything you guys consistantly tell others is the gospel?

where is the scripture bruce that says this which is your comment?

The words of Jesus are all good, but following them is not a good idea, they arent all meant for the church?

and since "you dont deny the four gospels then that would clearly mean that all this is true

matthew 6:14-15 "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:15But IF YE FORGIVE NOT men their trespasses, NIETHER WILL YOUR FATHER FORGIVE your trespasses."

are you now saying this is valid meant for christians? since you guys would never deny the 4 gospels? The difference in the true Gospel and all false Gospels is extremely simple . ANYTHING that disregards the words of Jesus Christ as the absolute full authority over the church, and also the entire creation believer or not, is a false doctrine. anything i have ever said on this site i can make very clear from the actual written word of God. you guys who consistantly go to anyones post that holds to Jesus and His Gospel, cant show any of the things you profess to others as salvation oin scripture.

its funny to me that this is about the 5th or 6th time, i have asked your group to chow the scriptures that teach the things you teach as the true gospel, yet the scriptures throughout say the opposite, completely destroy the things that form the "gospel of the grace of Christ" yet, the gospel of the grace of christ" is the " real gospel that saves" and actually believing Jesus words "will lead you astray" if you want to deny what you said bruce, ill waste my own time and go grab the many comments of things " you arent saying" from the many posts where you said them, its a waste of my time because you will still say " thats not what were saying" its funny tho, for being so convinced you know the secret of the grace lens, why cant any of you show those things in Gods word? again some more things you consistantly omit from the 4 gospels " which none of you deny" and its just lol " my biased" because i stick with the Lords actual word that He died to deliver to the world. but since "you would never ceny the Lord Jesus and His word. then acceopt

mathew 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

matthew 7:21-27"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven. 22Many WILL SAY TO ME ON THAT DAY, LORD, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, ye that WORK INIQUITY.
24
Therefore whosoever HEARETH THESE SAYINGS OF MINE, and DOETH THEM, I will liken him unto a WISE MAN, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded UPON A ROCK.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH THEM NOT, shall be likened unto a FOOLISH MAN, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and IT FELL: and GREAT WAS THE FALL of it."

matthew 16:24-27 "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him DENY HIMSELF and take up his cross, and FOLLOW ME. 25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS."

MATTHEW 25:.31-46 "
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered ALL NATIONS: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35FOR I was an hungred, and YE GAVE ME meat: I was thirsty, and YE GAVE ME drink: I was a stranger, and YE TOOK ME in: 36Naked, and YE CLOTHED ME: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And THE KING SHALL ANSWER and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have DONE it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have DONE it unto me.

41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, DEPART FROM ME, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and YE GAVE ME NO meat: I was thirsty, and YE GAVE ME NOdrink: 43I was a stranger, and YE TOOK ME NOT in: naked, and ye clothed me NOT : sick, and in prison, and ye visited me NOT. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did itnot to me. 46And THESE SAHLL GO AWAY INTO EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT: but the righteous into life eternal."


just a small sample of the things you will "explain why they dont apply" but the catch is, you will have no scripture saying the things you explain from the grace lense, because there is no such thing as a grace lens to look through. There is only the Light provided to the world, His name is Jesus Christ and His words are the words of God <<<<all this accroding to the scripture you never deny.


john 12:44-50 "Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46I am come a LIGHT INTO THE WORLD, that WHOSEVER BELEIVETH ON ME SHOULD NOT ABIDE in darkness. 47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48HE THAT REJECTETH ME, and RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the SAME SHALL JUDGE HIM in the last day. 49For I have NOT SPOKEN OF MYSELF but the Father which sent me, HE GAVE A COMMANDMENT, what I should SAY , and what I should SPEAK. 50And I know that HIS COMMANDMENT IS LIFE EVERLASTING: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."


you are correct bruce, i am opposed to false doctrine and distortions of Gods word. I am "biased" toward Jesus Christ because HE IS MY LORD AND SAVIOR, i will forever refuse to make Him a scapegoat for ongoing sin and call it grace while ommiting the truth of His everlasting Words. yet, it is written as it is written, and im a firm believer that Gods word is true and meant to be honored from the heart with all the heart. but ill move on from this post as the times before because there are no scriptures that teach to omit the truth of Jesus meaning every word He spoke. this is the very reason i have come to the conclusion that the gog has no merit worth anyones time because it is a circle of ommission based on the fact that scripture doesnt taech the things that good ole j.p. tells people. He takes a scripture hear and there to make His doctrine and then omits everything else explaining from Himself as you do, why the rest Just doesnt apply because of the word grace. its a waste of anyones time to learn false doctrine and a terrible mistake to follow things opposed to Jesus Words.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#12
Well...I will give what I believe the gospel of the grace of God says about forgiveness.

Look at the word-for-word accounts of the true gospel of Christ being preached and no where does it say to "forgive first or you will not be forgiven" I'll give you the exact scripture references . Peter - Acts 10:43 and Paul Acts 13:38

Have you ever heard Billy Graham say " Forgive people first before you come to receive Christ's forgiveness"?..of course not..it is anti-the gospel.

It is extremely important to read all scriptures in their context - even the words of Jesus. I understand this conflicts with some of our religious beliefs passed on by man-made traditions which nullify the grace of God.

The Cross of Christ changed from living according to law and we are now in the grace of Christ for forgiveness. It is not based on us. We forgive because we are forgiven - it's in our nature now.


Are we saying that Peter and Paul had it wrong when they preached the gospel? How can we mis-interpret the scriptures that talk about forgiveness after the Cross?

Here's Peter..shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??


Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that
through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."


And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus"
??


Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren,
that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then?
The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first. We are forgiven now after the cross because of the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses,
according to the riches of His grace.


 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,732
6,319
113
#13
Well...I will give what I believe the gospel of the grace of God says about forgiveness.

Look at the word-for-word accounts of the true gospel of Christ being preached and no where does it say to "forgive first or you will not be forgiven" I'll give you the exact scripture references . Peter - Acts 10:43 and Paul Acts 13:38

Have you ever heard Billy Graham say " Forgive people first before you come to receive Christ's forgiveness"?..of course not..it is anti-the gospel.

It is extremely important to read all scriptures in their context - even the words of Jesus. I understand this conflicts with some of our religious beliefs passed on by man-made traditions which nullify the grace of God.

The Cross of Christ changed from living according to law and we are now in the grace of Christ for forgiveness. It is not based on us. We forgive because we are forgiven - it's in our nature now.


Are we saying that Peter and Paul had it wrong when they preached the gospel? How can we mis-interpret the scriptures that talk about forgiveness after the Cross?

Here's Peter..shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??


Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that
through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."


And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus"
??


Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren,
that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then?
The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first. We are forgiven now after the cross because of the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses,
according to the riches of His grace.


we all need to keep this in mind. the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ changed everything.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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#14
We need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them. Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.

Jesus told His disciple to "Go to Jerusalem first, then Judea , then Samaria and preach the gospel." Did we do that?

Jesus told the disciples lot's of things that do not apply to us now. He told them to wait in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit comes upon them. Do we need to do that now?



Did we obey Jesus' words and go to Jerusalem first to preach the gospel just like He commanded?


If you haven't then you are in your own words - you are denying Jesus.

Why do we deny the words of God in regards to the true gospel of the grace of Christ for forgiveness after the Cross where we don't need to forgive people before we receive Christ's forgiveness as Peter and Paul showed in Acts 10 and Acts 13?

Obviously we need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them.

Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.

Let's climb into the New Covenant build upon better promises and of which the blood of Jesus speaks of better things. We have a truly great and complete salvation in Christ and we don't need to add our own "works" onto it.

We have a great salvation and it is found only in Him. His blood bought eternal redemption. In Him we have the forgiveness of sins. Repent and believe the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#15
Well...I will give what I believe the gospel of the grace of God says about forgiveness.

Look at the word-for-word accounts of the true gospel of Christ being preached and no where does it say to "forgive first or you will not be forgiven" I'll give you the exact scripture references . Peter - Acts 10:43 and Paul Acts 13:38

Have you ever heard Billy Graham say " Forgive people first before you come to receive Christ's forgiveness"?..of course not..it is anti-the gospel.

It is extremely important to read all scriptures in their context - even the words of Jesus. I understand this conflicts with some of our religious beliefs passed on by man-made traditions which nullify the grace of God.

The Cross of Christ changed from living according to law and we are now in the grace of Christ for forgiveness. It is not based on us. We forgive because we are forgiven - it's in our nature now.


Are we saying that Peter and Paul had it wrong when they preached the gospel? How can we mis-interpret the scriptures that talk about forgiveness after the Cross?

Here's Peter..shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??


Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that
through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."


And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus"
??


Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren,
that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then?
The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first. We are forgiven now after the cross because of the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses,
according to the riches of His grace.


Bruce lol JESUS SAID THAT. so let me understand you here...Jesus didnt preach the true gospel ? paul actually did?<<is that something you believe?

Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]"Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,


according to your scripture bruce, who was FORGIVENESS OF SINS proclaimed through?

and one more wuestion though i have many, are we forgiven By Jesus ? or only by His death and resurrection? because several times he forgives people in His ministry saying " so you may know i have authority to forgive sins" but like i was saying beforehand. is your belief that paul taught a different gospel than Jesus taught in His ministry?
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#16
we all need to keep this in mind. the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ changed everything.
dont we also nbeed to keep in mind this stuff taught long after the resurrection?

ephesians 5:1-7 "Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath ANY INHERITANCE in the kingdom of Christ and of God.6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them."

thoings paul taught cinsistantl;y to the very same churches He taught forgiveness to? this is my entire point. everything isnt to be taken unconditionally because Just as Jesus did, paul gives many instructions and warnings of disqualification regarding our actions which are a part of faith. there is no difference in pauls teachings and Jesus teachings, nor peters. Jesus Himself spoke every word of the new covenant, thatsw been foretold for ages in the prophets, consistantly, Jesus said the very thing time and time again, its all about Jesus words AND His death and resurrection. His words are signed in His blood and that is the new covenant paul taught both grace and the truth that God is Just in Keeping His word of warning upon those who persist in disobedience to His word of Life.

where in scripture do we learn that the gospel changes after the death of Jesus? where does the commission in matthew 28:18-20 end? according to scripture? im open for those scriptures if ive overlooked them
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#17
We need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them. Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.

Jesus told His disciple to "Go to Jerusalem first, then Judea , then Samaria and preach the gospel." Did we do that?

Jesus told the disciples lot's of things that do not apply to us now. He told them to wait in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit comes upon them. Do we need to do that now?



Did we obey Jesus' words and go to Jerusalem first to preach the gospel just like He commanded?


If you haven't then you are in your own words - you are denying Jesus.

Why do we deny the words of God in regards to the true gospel of the grace of Christ for forgiveness after the Cross where we don't need to forgive people before we receive Christ's forgiveness as Peter and Paul showed in Acts 10 and Acts 13?

Obviously we need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them.

Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.

Let's climb into the New Covenant build upon better promises and of which the blood of Jesus speaks of better things. We have a truly great and complete salvation in Christ and we don't need to add our own "works" onto it.

We have a great salvation and it is found only in Him. His blood bought eternal redemption. In Him we have the forgiveness of sins. Repent and believe the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

bruce you have a terrible misconception that is keeping you from Jesus words. Jesus is the Lord of all people. the same things He taught to His disciples he then commanded His disicples to go teach to the world. you have no light friend, paul is not the light, the light is the message of Jesus, His words along with His death and resurrection. you have no scripture to claim the things you are saying.

its that grace lense man thats why you disect scriptures and deny everything that is an instruction that you are 100 percent meant to keep. Pauls entire Goal bruce was to Bring people into the obedience of Faith in Jesus Christ who spoke the Gospel into exiatance. im not sure whether you actually believe this stuff, or you see Jesus words as against you, they are Life. every interpretation you have is based on making JESUS WORDS not the right words, but anytime someone says that " your not saying that" hopefully people will understand the core of the message you spread is " by any means do not believe Jesus words are meant for you, you just need to hear my explaination of why they dont apply. I cant show you scripture, but trust me on this, Jesus words are not meant for christians, only the ones i tell you"

when paul taught no such idea, even the opposite, as did John, peter, Jesus the Lord. you need to keep out of the books people write and just trust that Jesus is the One to believe. and realize there are Alot of deceivers, with alot of ideas but God will never de authorize JESUS words to the whole world. nor did paul ever suggest any such idea as to nottake Jesus words 100 percent as the lORDS word. thats what you have to accept, you act as if Jesus was another peice to a puzzle, when really the entire puzzle has all arrows pointing directly to the 4 gospels. its impossible to discuss the gospel with someone who omits it with no such teaching in any place n scripture, but tons saying whatever you do " keep JESUS WORDS THEY ARE GODS WORD"


Have a good one bruce but im back to the point where making an effort to discuss this gog doctrine is a waste of time. that being said bruce, Maybe im the one confused and im certainly not your authority, i hope you dont take anything personal its just the difference in your doctrine and mine. i hope you are well and blessed. imna bow out of this, take care
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#18
Bruce lol JESUS SAID THAT. so let me understand you here...Jesus didnt preach the true gospel ? paul actually did?<<is that something you believe?

Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]"Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,


according to your scripture bruce, who was FORGIVENESS OF SINS proclaimed through?

and one more wuestion though i have many, are we forgiven By Jesus ? or only by His death and resurrection? because several times he forgives people in His ministry saying " so you may know i have authority to forgive sins" but like i was saying beforehand. is your belief that paul taught a different gospel than Jesus taught in His ministry?

That is nonsense that Jesus taught something different than Paul. If we don't know how to rightly divide the word of truth then we come up with things that contradict the New Covenant which is what happens to works-based salvationists.

If we don't understand the New Covenant then we will not understand what Christ has already done for us which is why some of the teachings of Jesus is a mystery to some people.

To some He gave the law of Moses 2.0 on steroids to reveal their need for a Savior. To others He gave grace. Of course Jesus had the right to forgive sins.

We in the New Covenant are forgiven becasue the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. - not because we forgive first.

Here are the scriptures that show we have now the forgiveness of sins. There is no scriptures after the cross of Jesus - after His blood was spilled to redeem us by His blood that we need to forgive others in order to be forgiven by God now. It is an anti-Christ belief that stems from a lack of understanding of the New Covenant.

We forgive now because we have been forgiven. We love now because we are loved. This is our new nature because we are new creations in Christ. Get this wrong and we end up with a works-based message which is not the gospel of the grace of God.

Forgiveness is a done deal - either believe it or don't believe it.

On the subject of forgiveness that we have in Christ now because of His precious Blood...here is what the scriptures say.....sometimes the truth in the gospel of the grace of Christ "conflicts" with what we have been religiously taught.

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

perfect =
The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present time.
It is continuously happening in the present.

passive = voice =
action is happening to you....you are not doing it

Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous completed state and that was put on them....not something they did.

Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

We have redemption = present continuous action...so this means we have present continuous forgiveness of our sins
...

and look...that grace stuff shows up again!...
it's all according to the riches of our loving Father's grace that He has given to us in Christ our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Same thing here too...present continuous action = forgiveness of sins


Redemption!..we have been bought with the precious Blood of Jesus... Let's honor His work and repent and believe the good news of the finished work of Jesus for life and living. We can trust Him.



Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!

Walk in the knowledge of your forgiveness in Christ and in that security we will experience maturity.

His life in us will bring us to forgive others as we too have been forgiven. We live in the New Covenant now.
 
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#19
No one is "opposed to the 4 gospels" that I have seen anywhere around here - that is your bias slant and it is entirely untrue.
I have come across this type of argument before. We do not disagree with the words
or opinions expressed, they just do not apply to us.

It is like someone going past a speed limit sign, while going faster than the limit and
saying, "I saw the sign but it is for those who do not drive as safely as me, so it does
not apply to me."

A christian used this logic to me once, that cars are now so much safer than they used to
be, so going at the speed limit in an old car is the same as breaking it in a new car. Oh my.

Now to everyone outside this self justification argument, it is opposing the words or limits.
And when this is pointed out, they will say "slander" "liar" "evil person" this slander is as bad
as any horrendous sin, you are judging a believer.

But the truth, ... t-r-u-t-h .... is if you do not listen to Christ and obey you are not his follower
or disciple. If you teach others to rebel also you are a false teacher.

Now good, righteous morality should be the life blood of believers, because this is the Kingdom
of Heaven. And the sign that people are walking in this Kingdom is clean righteous lives.

Somehow in these peoples minds a clean righteous life is a sign of legalism and hypocracy, evil
worse than being a sinner.

Now let me compare this to the enemies point of view. He has the sinners all locked up, lost
confused, doomed, but the righteous, the followers of Christ, he wants them as well, and would
do anything to bring them down.

So who is walking in the ways of the enemy and who is walking in the ways of Christ?

Now dear brothers and sisters you know what I am saying, and that is always enough, Amen.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#20
The problem in all these discussions is priorities.
Sin cannot be compromised with.

And sin is not the odd reaction to something, or inappropriate thought, it is intentional
actions, words, choice to go in a particular direction shown by something that goes over
the mark.

To the person lost in sin, they do not see the mark and justify with long explanations.

So Jesus's eternal words can be junked. Odd that. A word that is eternal can be ignored
and only applies to jews.

"Love one another as I have loved you."
"Love your enemies"
"Love your neighbour as yourself"

These are principles of the Kingdom of heaven and all who are in the Kingdom
of Heaven. They are reflected by Paul, Peter, James, John etc.

But for some they bring condemnation and failure, and in their eyes sin.

Now a liar will always have his excuses, and the content of what he is talking about
will be ignored, because he is just excusing things that make them feel guilty.

God calls us to accept guilt, to work through the issues and repent and follow Him.

Sounds like avoidence is the ethic being preached which is rebellion and the ways
of the world.