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Thread: Question about the Lord's Supper

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Question about the Lord's Supper

    It is obvious that the O.T. points forward to the cross and the N.T. points back to the cross....

    The unleavened bread of the O.T. pointed to the sinless sacrifice of the Messiah and it is clear from scriptures that Jesus never sinned....

    The bible is also clear when it states that he became SIN for us and took our sin upon him as he hung upon the tree...

    When the Lord instituted the last supper, the Greek word used for bread is leavened bread.....

    My question is....The unleavened bread pointed to the sinless sacrifice to come....is IT POSSIBLE that the LEAVENED bread used by JESUS at the institution of the Lord's Supper POINTS back to him becoming SIN for us and TAKING our SIN upon himself?

    And if this is the case....IS it wrong to use leavened bread when we partake of the Lord's Supper?

    THESE are QUESTIONS...........SO....LOOK the words up and then tell me your view before you ASSUME anything.
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    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Over the years, I've used everything from matzo to crackers, triskets, and cake... wine to coke and water.

    If a person is getting hung up on specifically the items used, rather than the meaning of the act, they'd best be examining their heart (or getting out of the Catholic Church.)
    Last edited by Willie-T; December 18th, 2016 at 09:34 AM.
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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Over the years, I've used everything from matzo to crackers, triskets, and cake... wine to coke and water.

    If you are getting hung up on specifically the items used, rather than the meaning of the act, you'd best be examining your heart (or getting out of the Catholic Church.)
    Not hung up on anything bro and for sure not Catholic....just want to be right with my practice...especially since many of our brothers that were in the church at Corinth (WENT TO SLEEP) died because they had corrupted the practice migo....

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    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Not hung up on anything bro and for sure not Catholic....just want to be right with my practice...especially since many of our brothers that were in the church at Corinth (WENT TO SLEEP) died because they had corrupted the practice migo....
    When I have some time, I will help you understand that (WENT TO SLEEP). As with many people, you seem to have gotten it all out of context.

    HINT: You ever seen anyone fall over dead in the pews during Communion?
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    Senior Member Yahshua's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    It is obvious that the O.T. points forward to the cross and the N.T. points back to the cross....

    The unleavened bread of the O.T. pointed to the sinless sacrifice of the Messiah and it is clear from scriptures that Jesus never sinned....

    The bible is also clear when it states that he became SIN for us and took our sin upon him as he hung upon the tree...

    When the Lord instituted the last supper, the Greek word used for bread is leavened bread.....

    My question is....The unleavened bread pointed to the sinless sacrifice to come....is IT POSSIBLE that the LEAVENED bread used by JESUS at the institution of the Lord's Supper POINTS back to him becoming SIN for us and TAKING our SIN upon himself?

    And if this is the case....IS it wrong to use leavened bread when we partake of the Lord's Supper?

    THESE are QUESTIONS...........SO....LOOK the words up and then tell me your view before you ASSUME anything.
    Well the last supper wasn't the unleavened bread feast but was Christ's last meal he had before he would die on Passover. Passover was on the 14 of the 1st biblical month, the day before the Feast of Unleavened bread which began on the 15th. So the order of events was: the Lord's Supper, His Passover death on the cross, the Feast of Unleavened Bread. So they wouldn't have been eating unleavened bread yet, not until their lamb was slaughtered at the temple the next day and then cooked the following evening.

    So the short answer is yes I think you're free to use leavened bread to remember the Lord's Supper as we were commanded to do as often as we can. I make a point to remember it at almost every meal with regular bread and food.

    As to Christ breaking leavened bread during this supper, that's very interesting and I hadn't caught it before. I don't see why you can't associate the bread he used at his last supper with the leavening of sin that he took on for us. He also used leavened bread when he fed the multitude, then later used it as a teaching moment to call himself the (true) bread of life (even though unleavened bread more accurately represents him than leavened).
    Malachi 3:2 - But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the [priests of God] and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have [people] who will [worship] in righteousness.

    Ezekiel 36:27 - And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

    - Joshua

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    When I have some time, I will help you understand that (WENT TO SLEEP). As with many people, you seem to have gotten it all out of context.

    HINT: You ever seen anyone fall over dead in the pews during Communion?
    I am fairly confident I understand the following verses and the particular application of verse 11 bro.....

    1 Corinthians 11:23-30
    23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
    24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
    25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
    26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
    27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
    28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
    29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
    30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

    sleep-->comes from a root word which means to put to sleep, decease, be dead......

    The context is clear.....and Willy, one thing that I have noticed about you....In the last few years I have rarely, if ever seen you acknowledge anything form anyone besides what has been hammered out on your own anvil....there are many men and women who come in here who have sound knowledge and understanding that gets rejected daily by the "know it all" group...Paul tells ALL of us to be OPEN to learning and instruction.....and for sure...NOT ONE OF US has all the answers and or IS ALWAYS right bro!

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahshua View Post
    Well the last supper wasn't the unleavened bread feast but was Christ's last meal he had before he would die on Passover. Passover was on the 14 of the 1st biblical month, the day before the Feast of Unleavened bread which began on the 15th. So the order of events was: the Lord's Supper, His Passover death on the cross, the Feast of Unleavened Bread. So they wouldn't have been eating unleavened bread yet, not until their lamb was slaughtered at the temple the next day and then cooked the following evening.

    So the short answer is yes I think you're free to use leavened bread to remember the Lord's Supper as we were commanded to do as often as we can. I make a point to remember it at almost every meal with regular bread and food.

    As to Christ breaking leavened bread during this supper, that's very interesting and I hadn't caught it before. I don't see why you can't associate the bread he used at his last supper with the leavening of sin that he took on for us. He also used leavened bread when he fed the multitude, then later used it as a teaching moment to call himself the (true) bread of life (even though unleavened bread more accurately represents him than leavened).
    Thanks for the answer...it does seem to indicate that he tied the two together because he did send his disciples to prepare for the Passover Matthew 26:1-30..in particular vs 18 thru 26....He tells his disciples to prepare for the Passover and then breaks the leavened bread.....

    Just a thought to ponder.....one thing for sure...God does not miss a thing and each word has meaning behind it...God inspired each word for a reason.....
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    Senior Member Yahshua's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Thanks for the answer...it does seem to indicate that he tied the two together because he did send his disciples to prepare for the Passover Matthew 26:1-30..in particular vs 18 thru 26....He tells his disciples to prepare for the Passover and then breaks the leavened bread.....

    Just a thought to ponder.....one thing for sure...God does not miss a thing and each word has meaning behind it...God inspired each word for a reason.....
    Agreed. I think Christ the man wanted so bad to eat with them and celebrate the feast...in fact I think he says as much doesn't he?? (I have to look it up again to make sure).
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    Malachi 3:2 - But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the [priests of God] and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have [people] who will [worship] in righteousness.

    Ezekiel 36:27 - And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

    - Joshua

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    Senior Member wwjd_kilden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    I am pretty sure that Jesus just used the kind of bread he happened to have at hand,
    If it had happened in modern day America maybe the wine would have been Budweiser or Coke

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahshua View Post
    Agreed. I think Christ the man wanted so bad to eat with them and celebrate the feast...in fact I think he says as much doesn't he?? (I have to look it up again to make sure).
    Yes he was looking forward to drinking it with them in the Kingdom....He said I will not drink of THIS fruit of the vine again until the day when I drink it new with you in my Father's Kingdom...odd thing.....God is specific and never misses anything...WHY did he exclude the eating of the bread....is it because the bread represented sin and the wine (fruit of the vine) represented the pure shed blood of the Passover lamb....

    A whole new direction here.....very interesting!

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Another question or group of questions....

    What scriptural precedence do we have to CHANGE the specifics and or application of the Lord's supper?

    What scriptural precedence and or right do we have to change the fruit of the vine and or the bread offered?

    What verses give us the latitude to say no...I am not going to use bread, but rather a piece of cake? Who gives us the right and or authority to do this?

    What would happen if the Hebrews would have disregarded the specific instructions concerning the Passover and did not strike the posts with the blood or sacrificed a goat?

    Nay my friends...we have no right to substitute and expect God to receive it in my view.....
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Another question or group of questions....

    What scriptural precedence do we have to CHANGE the specifics and or application of the Lord's supper?

    What scriptural precedence and or right do we have to change the fruit of the vine and or the bread offered?

    What verses give us the latitude to say no...I am not going to use bread, but rather a piece of cake? Who gives us the right and or authority to do this?

    What would happen if the Hebrews would have disregarded the specific instructions concerning the Passover and did not strike the posts with the blood or sacrificed a goat?

    Nay my friends...we have no right to substitute and expect God to receive it in my view.....
    Does this mean then each and every time a Christian enters your house you offer them bread and wine?
    Jesus told his disciples to do it whenever they met
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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by wwjd_kilden View Post
    Does this mean then each and every time a Christian enters your house you offer them bread and wine?
    Jesus told his disciples to do it whenever they met
    The context of what is listed in the gospels does not support nor indicate what you are implying...

    a. By this time all had forsaken him except the 12
    b. They were meeting in capacity for the specific reason of celebrating the Passover
    c. We at not told to celebrate the Passover every time we meet
    d. And he also stated as OFTEN AS YOU WILL......it could be once a year, once a month, or 365 times a year......

    And again my focus is the elements used and those who say it is ok to substitute anything they want as compared to HOW JESUS DID IT....

    Serious!!!!!
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    The natural law was a shadow of things to come which was to be revealed and fulfilled spiritually. The sign of keeping unleavened bread out of your house was not about natural bread at all, but rather staying sincere keeping mans leaven of false doctrine and hypocrisy out of your own house (heart/mind) prior to the Passover Lamb being killed. This sign of the leaven was confirmed by both Jesus and Paul, here is a old post I made on the topic---->>>>
    How much leaven does it take to leaven the whole Lump? Some believe they can leaven their lump with as much leaven as they wish, and still be unleavened. But others who truly understand know a little leaven can leaven the whole lump.

    Matthew 16:6 “Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”

    Matthew 16:11-12 “
    How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the
    leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
    12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”


    Galatians 5:7-9 “
    Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
    8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.9 A little
    leaven leaveneth the whole lump.


    1 Corinthians 5:6-8
    “Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that
    a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread ofsincerity and truth.”

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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    The context of what is listed in the gospels does not support nor indicate what you are implying...

    a. By this time all had forsaken him except the 12
    b. They were meeting in capacity for the specific reason of celebrating the Passover
    c. We at not told to celebrate the Passover every time we meet
    d. And he also stated as OFTEN AS YOU WILL......it could be once a year, once a month, or 365 times a year......

    And again my focus is the elements used and those who say it is ok to substitute anything they want as compared to HOW JESUS DID IT....

    Serious!!!!!
    No need to get angry

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by wwjd_kilden View Post
    No need to get angry
    Not angry bro.....sorry that perception came from my post!
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper


    As we are at the topic, I do wonder how often the disciples did do this
    ... and when someone decided to replace the bread with the ... if it wafer you call it ?
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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by wwjd_kilden View Post

    As we are at the topic, I do wonder how often the disciples did do this
    ... and when someone decided to replace the bread with the ... if it wafer you call it ?
    Yeah I don't know....as far as the wafer...I have never seen the wafers being used...most of the time unleavened bread was baked and used....and that is my main point...When it comes to the institution of a particular ordinance by God, we as servants have no spiritual grounds to change it or embellish it....the main question is..do we use unleavened and or leavened bread?...when Jesus called for his disciples to prepare the Passover the Greek word used is leavened bread<--when Jesus broke the bread....since the O.T. points forward to the sinless sacrifice of Jesus is had to be represented by the concept of being unleavened (sinless)....yet in the N.T. we look back to the sinless taking our sin upon him and becoming sin for us...maybe that is why he used Leavened Bread....because it ties Jesus who was UNLEAVENED (sinless) as becoming LEAVENED (OUR SINAPPLIED) as our sacrifice for sins.......

    That is what I am pondering........!
    Last edited by dcontroversal; December 18th, 2016 at 02:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    I think that, ultimately, God knows our hearts.

    i.e, some Churches use grape juice rather than wine, because to a previous alcoholic, that sip of wine could be enough to get them back to drinking.

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Lord's Supper

    Quote Originally Posted by wwjd_kilden View Post
    I think that, ultimately, God knows our hearts.

    i.e, some Churches use grape juice rather than wine, because to a previous alcoholic, that sip of wine could be enough to get them back to drinking.
    Yeah...It is identified as the fruit of the vine which does not necessarily mean wine........
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