Promised

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Dec 13, 2016
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#1
In Romans 9 Paul mentions in the same breath the Promises and the Covenants.

Clearly the two are different then, aren't they?

So then what are the differences, and why does it matter?
 
Dec 17, 2016
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#2
That crossed my mind too.

The Covenants would be written contracts.

The Promises would be verbal oaths.

Just a thought...
 
Dec 17, 2016
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#3
Another example might be the birthright and the scepter.
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
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#4
I get you question, but in this passage covenant and promise are synonymous. Discloser, I am going to run thru the history not looking up Scripture but you (the reader) can and find out it is in the Scripture.

G-d promised Abraham his decedents would be as numerous as the stars and the sand. G-d promised Abraham the promised seed would be of his own flesh, so Lot was not it like Abraham first thought. So, came Ishmael then came Isaac thru Sarah. Then G-d created the covenant with Himself so it could not be broken. So, Abraham is the father of every, Arrib, Jew, and Christian. Too numerous to count like the stars and the sand.

Promises are conditional and so are covenants. All thru Scripture, it is tit for tat unless G-d makes a covenant and promises with Himself, like Noah and the flood and Abraham sending the messiah. Those will never be broken. Yet at the same time G-d made many promises with man and convents that required man to fulfill their part…Look at the Naivetes, promise, the covenant with Israel in Deuteronomy and so on and so forth….
 
Dec 13, 2016
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#5
That crossed my mind too.

The Covenants would be written contracts.

The Promises would be verbal oaths.

Just a thought...

Well, that is right in a sense. The two are different things.

From what I can see God makes various promises in Chapter 12 of Genesis, but it is not until Chapter 15 that he makes a covenant.

I am taking a covenant and a promise to be different things.
 
Dec 13, 2016
744
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#6
I get you question, but in this passage covenant and promise are synonymous. Discloser, I am going to run thru the history not looking up Scripture but you (the reader) can and find out it is in the Scripture.

G-d promised Abraham his decedents would be as numerous as the stars and the sand. G-d promised Abraham the promised seed would be of his own flesh, so Lot was not it like Abraham first thought. So, came Ishmael then came Isaac thru Sarah. Then G-d created the covenant with Himself so it could not be broken. So, Abraham is the father of every, Arrib, Jew, and Christian. Too numerous to count like the stars and the sand.

Promises are conditional and so are covenants. All thru Scripture, it is tit for tat unless G-d makes a covenant and promises with Himself, like Noah and the flood and Abraham sending the messiah. Those will never be broken. Yet at the same time G-d made many promises with man and convents that required man to fulfill their part…Look at the Naivetes, promise, the covenant with Israel in Deuteronomy and so on and so forth….
Why is a promise conditional?

I promise to give you a diamond ring (unconditional) for your 40th birthday

I promise to help you, if you get in trouble (conditional)
 
Dec 13, 2016
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#7
The point is, as per Galatians 3, the Abrahamic Promises and the Abrahamic Covenant are two separate things::

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

So what is Paul saying?

That the Law cannot annul the Abrahamic Covenant because that would then invalidate the Abrahamic Promises
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#8
Abraham is the “ father of the faithful” (see Galatians 3:7)
If we are Christ’s we are Abraham’s children (Galatians 3:29)
that Abraham was called on to be willing to sacrifice his only (legitimate) son (Genesis 22:2)
For the promise, that he [Abraham] should be the heir of the world Romans 4:13

all the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory,
belong sole to Israel (Romans 9:4).


God promised that Abraham’s literal, human, flesh and blood descendants
should become “a great nation” (Genesis 12:2);

that He would “multiply thee exceedingly” (Genesis 17:2);
that“thou shalt be a father of many nations” (verse 4); and that “I will make
thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee”(verse 6).

In Genesis 17:8, God promised “all the land of Canaan,” but in other scriptures
He promised much more. In Genesis 15:18: “

Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt [the Nile]
unto the great river,the river Euphrates. The Euphrates is a considerable
distance to the east in the ancient land of Babylon,

Genesis 24:60 to Abraham’s daughter-in-law: “e thou the mother of thousands
of millions, and let thy seed possessthe gate of those which hate them.”

“By myself have I sworn, saith the [Eternal], for because thou
hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only
son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will
multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand
which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gates of
his enemies. The promise now is unconditional.


This legacy guaranteed on the authority of God
Almighty, unconditionally, multitudinous population, untold
wealth and material resources, national greatness and world power!


The spiritual promises—the promises of the “one seed,” Christ, and
of salvation through Him—the Bible calls the scepter.

But the material and national promises relating to many nations, national wealth,
prosperity and power, and possession of the Holy Land, the Bible calls the birthright.
A birthright does not have to be earned, it comes by birth, but someone can lose it.

Both the birthright and the scepter were repromised by the Eternal
to Abraham and Isaac and to Jacob.
----
that Isaac was born by promise, and by a miracle from God,
“And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed;
and thou shalt call his name Isaac:

and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant,
and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I … will make him fruitful,
and will multiply him exceedingly … and I will make him a great nation.
But my covenant will I establish with Isaac …” (verses 19-21).


Abraham wanted ishmael, Genesis 17:18, but God chose Isaac,first lawful son
Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac (Genesis 25:5)


The promise, as confirmed to Isaac, Genesis 26:3-5 all these countries...
Ishmael and Abraham’s other sons were rejected from this birthright.



more to story....
 
Dec 13, 2016
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#9
God enters into a Covenantal relationship in Genesis 15.

In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:


Prior to that he simply made promises that had zero conditions attached.....

"I will do this that and the other"

It was very important that they were Promises, as they pertained to Christ.

(So, to state the obvious, "I will send a saviour to the World, if you all obey the Sabbath properly" would be a recipe for disaster)

The covenant though has conditions attached, does it not?
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#10
God enters into a Covenantal relationship in Genesis 15.


Prior to that he simply made promises that had zero conditions attached.....

"I will do this that and the other"

God Told Abram to do something

1Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from
thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

and if Abram did, God would give him something

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee,
and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:


Abram did and up and departed, and not argued about why.
If he did not go, he would have got nothing or worse......
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
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#12
this is showing the start of both the birthright, and septer promise.

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee,
and make thy name great;

-


and thou shalt be a blessing:[septer-King David-Christ]

both the old covent[be kings and priests]
and the new covenent[be kings and priests]
is based on the septer promises.



The new covenant does not in anyway cancel out the birthright promises.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#13
God’s Promises to Abrahams seed, or physical descendants

¦Genesis 12:1-2 | God promises Abraham that his descendants will become a great nation.
¦Genesis 17:1-6 | God promises Abraham will be a father of many nations, not just one.
¦Genesis 22:16-18|the birthright nations will possess the gates (access points) of their enemies.
¦Genesis 26:3-5 | God promises the birthright nations will multiply as the stars of heaven.
¦Genesis 27:26-29 | the birthright nations will become wealthy and rule over other nations.
¦Genesis 28:13-14 | the birthright nations will spread worldwide.
¦Genesis 35:11 | the birthright nations will become “a nation and a company of nations.”

Genesis 48, Abraham’s grandson Jacob—whom God renamed Israel—
specifically assigned his name to Ephraim and Manasseh,
saying that one of these descendants would become a “great” people,
and that the other would become a “multitude of nations” .
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#14
David succeeded Saul. David sat on the Eternal’s throne.

1 Chronicles 29:23
Then Solomon sat on the throne of the Lord as king instead of David his father,

2 Chronicles 9:8)
Blessed be the Lord thy God, which delighted in thee to set thee on his throne,
to be king for the Lord thy God:

because thy God loved Israel, to establish them for ever,
therefore made he thee king over them, to do judgment and justice.

2 Samuel 23:1, 5
1“Now these be the last words of David.

5Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me
an [everlasting covenant], [ordered in all things, and sure]:

“And it came to pass that night, that the word of the Lord came unto Nathan,
saying, Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the Lord, Shalt thou build me
an house for me to dwell in,

[W]hen thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers,
I will set up thy seed after thee,

which shall proceed out of thy bowels [Solomon], and I will establish [his] kingdom.

[He shall build] an house for my name,
and I will stablish the throne of [his kingdom] for ever.

I will be his father, and he shall be my son. [Solomon]

David’s [son] Solomon succeeded him, also sitting on the Eternal’s throne.
David’s [son] Solomon built an house for God.

If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with (the rod of men),
and with the stripes of the children of men:

But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul,
whom I put away before thee. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be
established for ever before thee:

-


28My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and [his throne as the days] of heaven.

30If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my
faithfulness to fail.

34My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

-

3I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto [David my servant],
4Thy seed will I establish for ever, and [build up thy throne] [to all generations]. Selah.

-

5Ought ye not to know that the Lord God of Israel gave the kingdom over
Israel to David for ever, even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt?
 
Last edited:
Dec 12, 2013
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#15
A covenant is an agreement between two parties...a promise is a guarantee from one party to another party.....
 
Dec 17, 2016
47
0
0
#16
Abraham is the “ father of the faithful” (see Galatians 3:7)
If we are Christ’s we are Abraham’s children (Galatians 3:29)
that Abraham was called on to be willing to sacrifice his only (legitimate) son (Genesis 22:2)
For the promise, that he [Abraham] should be the heir of the world Romans 4:13

all the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory,
belong sole to Israel (Romans 9:4).


God promised that Abraham’s literal, human, flesh and blood descendants
should become “a great nation” (Genesis 12:2);

that He would “multiply thee exceedingly” (Genesis 17:2);
that“thou shalt be a father of many nations” (verse 4); and that “I will make
thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee”(verse 6).

In Genesis 17:8, God promised “all the land of Canaan,” but in other scriptures
He promised much more. In Genesis 15:18: “

Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt [the Nile]
unto the great river,the river Euphrates. The Euphrates is a considerable
distance to the east in the ancient land of Babylon,

Genesis 24:60 to Abraham’s daughter-in-law: “e thou the mother of thousands
of millions, and let thy seed possessthe gate of those which hate them.”

“By myself have I sworn, saith the [Eternal], for because thou
hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only
son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will
multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand
which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gates of
his enemies. The promise now is unconditional.


This legacy guaranteed on the authority of God
Almighty, unconditionally, multitudinous population, untold
wealth and material resources, national greatness and world power!


The spiritual promises—the promises of the “one seed,” Christ, and
of salvation through Him—the Bible calls the scepter.

But the material and national promises relating to many nations, national wealth,
prosperity and power, and possession of the Holy Land, the Bible calls the birthright.
A birthright does not have to be earned, it comes by birth, but someone can lose it.

Both the birthright and the scepter were repromised by the Eternal
to Abraham and Isaac and to Jacob.
----
that Isaac was born by promise, and by a miracle from God,
“And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed;
and thou shalt call his name Isaac:

and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant,
and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I … will make him fruitful,
and will multiply him exceedingly … and I will make him a great nation.
But my covenant will I establish with Isaac …” (verses 19-21).


Abraham wanted ishmael, Genesis 17:18, but God chose Isaac,first lawful son
Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac (Genesis 25:5)


The promise, as confirmed to Isaac, Genesis 26:3-5 all these countries...
Ishmael and Abraham’s other sons were rejected from this birthright.



more to story....


Very interesting and thoughtful. Thank you.
 
Dec 17, 2016
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#17
A covenant is an agreement between two parties...a promise is a guarantee from one party to another party.....[/QUOT]

That makes sense. That is why the Bible says that a covenant can be broken but not a promise.

:)
 
Dec 17, 2016
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#19
Just a little trivia...

Left = Identity strength.

Right = Spiritual strength.

You can apply this to politics to get the general theme of each side.
 
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
#20
this is showing the start of both the birthright, and septer promise.

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee,
and make thy name great;

-


and thou shalt be a blessing:[septer-King David-Christ]

both the old covent[be kings and priests]
and the new covenent[be kings and priests]
is based on the septer promises.



The new covenant does not in anyway cancel out the birthright promises.
Ok, so you believe that the Promises are found in Genesis 12, 13, and at the beginning of 15, and are quite distinct from the covenant?