Tithing...

[Rockrz]

It makes a comparison of Jesus to Melchizedek

Yes, God's Word does that:

Hebrews 7:14-17
For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

and nowhere even hints that Jesus collects tithes today

Actually it does...

Hebrews 7:8
Here men that die receive tithes; but there He (Jesus) receives them, of whom it is witnessed that He lives
(referring to Jesus, the risen Lord of Glory receiving our tithe, the first fruits! - Matt 6:21, Luke 12:34, Proverbs 3:9,10).

The New Testament stops short of commanding us to pay tithes... but it does say Jesus is receiving tithes.

If He is receiving them, and He is, then I'm giving them (even more counting offerings) because Jesus said in His Word that he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully

2 Corinthians 9:6-15
But this I say, He which sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
Every man according as he purposes in his heart (purpose for giving! – Not the amount), so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver.
And God is able to make all grace (His presence) abound toward you; that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remains forever.
Now he that ministers seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
Being enriched in everything to all bountifulness, which causes through us thanksgiving to God.
For the administration of this service not only supplies the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

Verse 7 says "Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver."

This is a reference to PURPOSE for giving and says nothing of the amount... what is our purpose, our reason for giving?

It should be for love of the Lord and desire to bless His ministry (1 Corinthians 9:13-14)

if you claim that Jesus collects tithes, you must specify which ones

I didn't say that, God's Word says Jesus is "receiving" tithes and no where in the New Testament is there a direct command to pay tithes so... it's according to:

Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also! (our relationship with the Father comes before money, so we should be willing to share the first fruits (10%) of our earnings to support the Gospel of Jesus Christ - Deuteronomy 8:18)

Proverbs 3:9,10
Honor the LORD with your substance (possessions), and with the first fruits of all your increase (earnings):
So shall your barns be filled with plenty, and your presses shall burst out with new wine (fresh revelation).
(Purpose for increase? See Deuteronomy 8:18)

Your interpretation of Jesus's words to the Pharisees overlooks the verb tense, "should have"

No, Jesus said "These you ought to have done" speaking of paying tithes indicating that Jesus is in favor of tithes being paid.

None the less... Jesus is still receiving tithes only under the New Covenant He is not making it mandatory... He's watching to see who loves Him and His ministry to mankind and is putting their treasure (money / stuff) where their heart is... IF there heart is truly with Him first in life.

In other words, He's watching to see who puts Him before their money and their stuff.

This is the big problem with the prosperity guys on TV... most of them are hording money and it tends to poverty. Sure they give, but like osteen reportedly has over $40 million in the bank! That's obscene and is holding back from the Lord!

Proverbs 11:24
There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty.

Just cause they have millions in the bank personally does not mean they have true prosperity. Hording money and not putting it to use to support what Jesus is doing... is poverty and some of these guys are getting in to trouble spiritually over it... like getting in to catholikism which is leading the masses into the one world religion... leading them to hell.

No that is poverty, regardless of how many zeros are at the end of yo bank statement!

The Apostle Paul said to take care of yourself and your family first

You might want to post the scripture reference for that... Jesus says we cannot be His disciple unless we "hate" their family (speaking of putting Jesus first, before family)


Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

I understand that we are to take care of our family which is correct, BUT supporting the gospel comes first according to to what Jesus said in Luke 14:26

 

[Rockrz]

For those that do pay tithes... are you tithing the tithe???

Deuteronomy 26 (Tithing the Tithe)
And it shall be, when you have come in unto the land which the LORD your God gives you for an inheritance, and possess it, and dwell therein;

That you shall take of the first of all the fruit of the earth, which you shalt bring of your land that the LORD thy God gives you, and shall put it in a basket, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose to place His name there. (Hebrews 4:14-16)

And you shall go unto the Priest that shall be in those days (Jesus Christ), and say unto Him, I profess this day unto the LORD my God, that I am come unto the country which the LORD swore unto our fathers for to give us.
(Citizens of the Kingdom of God - 2 Corinthians 5:17, Colossians 1:13, Ephesians 2:5,6)

And the Priest shall take the basket out of your hand, and set it down before the altar of the LORD thy God. And thou shalt speak and say before the LORD thy God, A Syrian ready to perish was my father, and he went down into Egypt, and sojourned there with a few, and became there a nation, great, mighty, and populous: And the Egyptians evil entreated us, and afflicted us, and laid upon us hard bondage:

And when we cried unto the LORD God of our fathers, the LORD heard our voice, and looked on our affliction, and our labor, and our oppression:

And the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great terribleness, and with signs, and with wonders:

And he hath brought us into this place, and hath given us this land, even a land that flows with milk and honey.
(Citizens of the Kingdom of God - 2 Corinthians 5:17, Colossians 1:13, Ephesians 2:5,6)

And now, behold, I have brought the first fruits of the land, which you, O LORD, have given me. And you shalt set it before the LORD your God, and worship before the LORD your God: (Hebrews 7:8)

And you shall rejoice in every good thing which the LORD your God hath given unto you (Philippians 4:4), and unto your house, you, and the Levite, and the stranger that is among you.

When you have made an end of tithing all the tithes of your increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and has given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;
(Leviticus 25:10, Luke 4:19, Hebrews 4:9-11, 2 Corinthians 6:2, Isaiah 49:8)

Then thou shalt say before the LORD your God, I have brought away (dedicated for His use) the hallowed (valuable) things out of my house, and also have given them (made available) unto the Levite, and unto the stranger, to the fatherless, and to the widow, according to all your commandments which you have commanded me: I have not transgressed your commandments, neither have I forgotten them:

I have not eaten thereof in my mourning, neither have I taken away ought thereof for any unclean use, nor given ought thereof for the dead: but I have listened to the voice of the LORD my God, and have done according to all that thou has commanded me. (Romans 8:14)

Look down from your holy habitation, from heaven, and bless your people Israel (and the Body of Christ), and the land which you have given us, as You swore unto our fathers, a land that flows with milk and honey.

This day the LORD your God hath commanded thee to do these statutes and judgments (walk in agreement with Him): you shall therefore keep and do them with all your heart, and with all your soul. (Matthew 22:37-39, John 14:15)

You have challenged the LORD this day to be your God, and to walk in His ways, and to keep His statutes, and His commandments, and His judgments, and to listen unto His voice (Jeremiah 1:12, 2 Peter 3:9)

And the LORD has challenged you this day to be His peculiar people (set apart unto Him exclusively!), as He has promised you, and that you should keep all his commandments; (2 Corinthians 6:17, Romans 8:14, Ephesians 5:1)

And to make you high above all nations which He has made, in praise, and in name, and in honor; and that you may be an Holy People (set apart, not of this world) unto the LORD your God, as He has spoken. (Ephesians 2:6)


(This mentions tithes, offerings, and alms - giving to the poor)

Doing this prayerfully coupled with taking communion is a good time of fellowship with the Lord when praying over your giving in your prayer closet before you give it...

 

[Dino246]

Actually it does...

Hebrews 7:8
Here men that die receive tithes; but there He (Jesus) receives them, of whom it is witnessed that He lives
(referring to Jesus, the risen Lord of Glory receiving our tithe, the first fruits! - Matt 6:21, Luke 12:34, Proverbs 3:9,10).

The "Jesus" you have quoted here is not in the text of Hebrews 7:8. It is inserted as a commentary in whatever version you have quoted.

 

[followjesus]

Want you to get victory----If your having financial problems---please tithe---and give offerings if possible---you say, but I can't afford to give---what your doing is not working?-----I've been jammed up financially---got committed to giving in faith---it works....I get bummed out when people preach against tithing----I know this will hurt people---God does not need our money---we need God in our finances... Grace and Peace...

i think some of the issue people have with tithing is that its used so often for things other than the needs of the poor among us and the levites,,,,well i cant see any reason we should support the priests of judaism now.

deuteronomy 26: 12-13 "When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled; 13Then thou shalt say before the LORD thy God, I have brought away the hallowed things out of mine house, and also have given them unto the Levite, and unto the stranger, to the fatherless, and to the widow, according to all thy commandments which thou hast commanded me: I have not transgressed thy commandments, neither have I forgotten them"

so many wealthy pastors and churches, that give little to the poor and needy i think is a huge issue woth some in regards to tithing. certainly we should tithe, but it may be better to find a needy family, single mother, homeless shelter or the Like to tithe into. most pastors make a decent wage, while others have an abundance. the tithe was for the priests to have thier daily needs met, and for the orphans and widows and fatherless to eat and have thier daily needs met.

isaiah 58 is a good place to consider when giving money

 

[Rockrz]

The "Jesus" you have quoted here is not in the text of Hebrews 7:8. It is inserted as a commentary in whatever version you have quoted.

Yes, I added (Jesus) because it's very obvious Who this is referring to when it says "but there He receives them, of whom it is witnessed that He lives" simply because... in Heaven, Jesus is the One being celebrated as "of whom it is witnessed that He lives"

Especially when it says "after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life"

This be speakin of Jesus... and it's why anti-tihers don't wanna talk 'bout Hebrews 7:14-17

And, just like Abraham... I give first fruits of my spoils of war seeing we are living in a war zone:

Ephesians 6:12,13
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

1 Peter 5:8-10
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

i think some of the issue people have with tithing is that its used so often for things other than the needs of the poor among us and the levites,,,,well i cant see any reason we should support the priests of judaism now.

deuteronomy 26: 12-13 "When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled; 13Then thou shalt say before the LORD thy God, I have brought away the hallowed things out of mine house, and also have given them unto the Levite, and unto the stranger, to the fatherless, and to the widow, according to all thy commandments which thou hast commanded me: I have not transgressed thy commandments, neither have I forgotten them"

so many wealthy pastors and churches, that give little to the poor and needy i think is a huge issue woth some in regards to tithing. certainly we should tithe, but it may be better to find a needy family, single mother, homeless shelter or the Like to tithe into. most pastors make a decent wage, while others have an abundance. the tithe was for the priests to have thier daily needs met, and for the orphans and widows and fatherless to eat and have thier daily needs met.

isaiah 58 is a good place to consider when giving money

i think some of the issue people have with tithing is that its used so often for things other than the needs of the poor among us and the levites,,,,well i cant see any reason we should support the priests of judaism now. People who oppose tithing oppose a 10% minimum being taught/demanded. Why? Defenders of tithing typically use the O.T. to defend it, and in nearly every case of the O.T., far more than 10% was given. If people are going to defend tithing based on the O.T., then they ought to demand that people give all(as in Abram's case) or 3 different types of tithes(Levitical, Poor, and Festival tithes - as required of livestock/crop growing Israelites in Lev, Numb, Deut). It wasn't simply 10% in any of these cases. Your Scripture reference above is the 3rd year Poor tithe.

certainly we should tithe I disagree. We should give as the Lord lays it on our hearts. There is no set minimum or maximum.

 

[AllenW]

I agree with you! I'm still learning but this is how I understand it.
Tithing was not money and I don't believe Yahuah wants your money.

Leviticus 27:30 - And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

*The reason Israel was to bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, was so that there would be food in God's house. God was concerned that the Levites had food to eat. That was the purpose of these tithes which were brought to God's temple. We are also told that if God's people were faithful in bringing their tithes into the storehouse, God would open up the windows of heaven and pour out for them a blessing until it overflowed. This no doubt refers to God's promise to bring abundant rains to produce the blessing of an overflowing harvest of crops.

God expected the Israelites to honor Him by giving the first fruits of what He gave to them.

Matthew 22:20-22 (KJV)
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

God wants us to give back to him what he has blessed us with. The government wants a percent of your money, not God.

You're still learning?
You should be teaching.
And you are teaching.

 

[limey410]

You've made a very good observation!

There are references to money and tithes. Just not what one will expect from hearing a pro-tithing sermon.

In the case of the Festival tithe, it was acceptable to turn tithes into money if tithes were too large to transport. Deut 14.

In the case of the Levitical tithe, if a tithe was redeemed, there was a 20% penalty. Lev 27:30-34

And you could use that money to get you to Jerusalem, support your stay, party up a little, and leave a little to the Levites on your way back home.

 

[maxwel]

I only pay tithes with mint, anise, and cummin,
because I think that's the biblical way.

I have to admit... the ushers don't like it much.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[Dino246]

Yes, I added (Jesus) because it's very obvious Who this is referring to when it says "but there He receives them, of whom it is witnessed that He lives" simply because... in Heaven, Jesus is the One being celebrated as "of whom it is witnessed that He lives"

It's obvious only to someone who isn't reading carefully and/or is choosing to inject his own presupposition into the text.

Especially when it says "after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life"

Which is verses 16-17, not in 1-10. The subject changes at verse 11 from Melchizedek to Jesus. The discussion of tithing takes place in verses 1-10. The whole point is to compare the greatness of Christ to the greatness of Melchizedek, not the other way around. Further, verse 3 says that Melchizedek was "without father, without mother, without genealogy", all of which are recorded for Jesus. Verses 1-10 are not about Jesus.

And, just like Abraham... I give first fruits of my spoils of war seeing we are living in a war zone:

A complete misapplication and misunderstanding of the Genesis passage. Abraham didn't merely live in a war zone, he was an active participant in a particular battle, the spoils of which he tithed to Melchizedek. It wasn't first fruits; that's a different contribution addressed under a different section of Leviticus.

Next question: do you tithe as Jacob tithed?

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

I only pay tithes with mint, anise, and cummin,
because I think that's the biblical way.

I have to admit... the ushers don't like it much.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Notice, too, that, pre-calvary, there were more important aspects of the law than tithing?

In some churches tithing is mandatory to become a member. Yet, those churches aren't demanding the Poor, Festival, and Levitical tithes...

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

You've made a very good observation!

There are references to money and tithes. Just not what one will expect from hearing a pro-tithing sermon.

In the case of the Festival tithe, it was acceptable to turn tithes into money if tithes were too large to transport. Deut 14.

In the case of the Levitical tithe, if a tithe was redeemed, there was a 20% penalty. Lev 27:30-34

And you could use that money to get you to Jerusalem, support your stay, party up a little, and leave a little to the Levites on your way back home.

Where do we find a church that supports/practices the proper handling of the different types of tithes?

 

[Rockrz]

It's obvious only to someone who isn't reading carefully and/or is choosing to inject his own presupposition into the text.

I already demonstrated that this passage IS in fact speaking about Jesus... so away you go... with yo non tithing selfs

Thank you for taking time to share your erroneous opinion that is in opposition to God's Word and what the Lord desires to see from His Body.

Where do we find a church that supports/practices the proper handling of the different types of tithes?

Why, in the yellow pages of course!

 

[AllenW]

It's obvious only to someone who isn't reading carefully and/or is choosing to inject his own presupposition into the text.

I already demonstrated that this passage IS in fact speaking about Jesus... so away you go... with yo non tithing selfs

Thank you for taking time to share your erroneous opinion that is in opposition to God's Word and what the Lord desires to see from His Body.





Why, in the yellow pages of course!

These type of responses prove that no one should take a word you say seriously.

 

[Rockrz]

These type of responses prove that no one should take a word you say seriously.

You should be taking God's Word seriously... but it's obvious that you do not after reading some of your responses ... but, that's your right to believe and do whatever it is you wanna believe and do. Enjoy!

Now run along... don't you have some cathloholic teachings you need to go advocate for

 

[Dino246]

It's obvious only to someone who isn't reading carefully and/or is choosing to inject his own presupposition into the text.

I already demonstrated that this passage IS in fact speaking about Jesus... so away you go... with yo non tithing selfs

Thank you for taking time to share your erroneous opinion that is in opposition to God's Word and what the Lord desires to see from His Body.





Why, in the yellow pages of course!

You should be taking God's Word seriously... but it's obvious that you do not after reading some of your responses ... but, that's your right to believe and do whatever it is you wanna believe and do. Enjoy!

Now run along... don't you have some cathloholic teachings you need to go advocate for

For someone who claims to be a Christian, your attitude stinks. I see no evidence of the Holy Spirit in you.

 

[Rockrz]

For someone who claims to be a Christian, your attitude stinks. I see no evidence of the Holy Spirit in you.

Well, you know what they say about opinions... they are like certain body parts... everyone has one and some let others see it!
Some of your responses to others are not very nice so you're one to talk

 

[AllenW]

Well, you know what they say about opinions... they are like certain body parts... everyone has one and some let others see it!
Some of your responses to others are not very nice so you're one to talk

the only time anyone speaks badly on this forum is when they talk to you
Now what does that tell you?

 

[Rockrz]

the only time anyone speaks badly on this forum is when they talk to you
Now what does that tell you?

It tells me you aren't paying attention... I see lots of arguing goin on between others where I'm not even involved.
You should quit lying...

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

It's obvious only to someone who isn't reading carefully and/or is choosing to inject his own presupposition into the text.

I already demonstrated that this passage IS in fact speaking about Jesus... so away you go... with yo non tithing selfs

Thank you for taking time to share your erroneous opinion that is in opposition to God's Word and what the Lord desires to see from His Body.

Why, in the yellow pages of course!

with yo non tithing selfs You realize that opposing tithing doesn't mean tithing opponents oppose giving?

You also understand that there is a difference between tithing and giving?

It seems like a growing number of people will give whatever they want and call it a tithe regardless of whether or not it's actually 10%.

More and more are confusing the two and think tithing and giving are synonymous when they aren't.

While I do not support the tithing system of the O.T.(which had multiple types of tithes), I do support giving sacrificial gifts and offerings to the church. I think a majority of tithing opponents on here take a similar view.