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Thread: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

  1. #21
    Senior Member blue_ladybug's Avatar
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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Don't Mormons believe that hot drinks are not for the body?

    Or is that in the bible instead?






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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Has anyone noticed he hasn't responded at all? I a mean he may be busy but I really hope he isn't one of those make a thread and never respond kind of people
    My life's testimony seems to have helped many people so I am going to put it here http://christianchat.com/testimonies...-new-post.html

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by breno785au View Post
    If so, who's lampstand would be thoroughly snuffed out by now.

    Evan,

    Let God’s curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you.
    Galatians 1:8

    You happily put up with whatever anyone tells you, even if they preach a different Jesus than the one we preach, or a different kind of Spirit than the one you received, or a different kind of gospel than the one you believed.
    2 Corinthians 11:4

    As you can see, there can be different gospels and different Jesus'
    Indeed. The Mormon Jesus is a spirit brother of Satan and not the creator of the heavens and the earth.

    According to official Mormon teaching, Jesus Christ is the first spirit child conceived and begotten by Heavenly Father and one of Heavenly Father’s many wives (commonly referred to as “Heavenly Mother”). Just as Heavenly Father before him progressed to godhood, so Jesus progressed through obedience to the status of a god (prior to his incarnation on earth). In the words of the late Mormon Apostle and General Authority Bruce McConkie, Jesus Christ “by obedience and devotion to the truth… attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God.” As such, according to LDS authorities, Jesus is not to be worshiped or prayed to as one would worship or pray to Heavenly Father. Is Jesus Christ the Spirit Brother of Satan? - Christian Research Institute

    Mormon leaders have taught that Jesus’ incarnation was the result of a physical relationship between God the Father and Mary (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115; Mormon Doctrine, p. 547). Mormons believe Jesus is a god, but that any human can also become a god (Doctrine and Covenants 132:20; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345–354).
    https://www.gotquestions.org/Mormons.html
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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by breno785au View Post
    If so, who's lampstand would be thoroughly snuffed out by now.

    Evan,

    Let God’s curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you.
    Galatians 1:8

    You happily put up with whatever anyone tells you, even if they preach a different Jesus than the one we preach, or a different kind of Spirit than the one you received, or a different kind of gospel than the one you believed.
    2 Corinthians 11:4

    As you can see, there can be different gospels and different Jesus'
    No, actually, breno, there can be only ONE Jesus Christ. Unfortunately though so many people attempt to create Christ in their own image, leading themselves and others away from the Truth preached from the beginning by Christ and His visible Church which He himself established in the world.
    That's exactly what Paul is warning against in your examples, the tendency of people to leave the established Church when they perceive some error in it in favor of some other teaching which conforms more to their own ideas. Hence the tens of thousands of denominations today and the millions of people simply going it alone with a bible.
    Jesus said to them, Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."
    On hearing it, many of his disciples said, This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?

    Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?"
    From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
    - John 6

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
    No, actually, breno, there can be only ONE Jesus Christ. Unfortunately though so many people attempt to create Christ in their own image, leading themselves and others away from the Truth preached from the beginning by Christ and His visible Church which He himself established in the world.
    That's exactly what Paul is warning against in your examples, the tendency of people to leave the established Church when they perceive some error in it in favor of some other teaching which conforms more to their own ideas. Hence the tens of thousands of denominations today and the millions of people simply going it alone with a bible.
    The Roman Catholic Church is the author of so many abuses against Christianity, and has attempted to rewrite history to make herself exist as if from the time of Christ when in actual fact the Roman Catholic Church did not come into being until the fourth century.The RCC elevates its manmade traditions above the revealed written Word of God. Some examples:

    God several times throughout Scripture says He will not share His glory,
    while Catholics glorify, venerate, and adore Mary.
    Jesus did not once in
    Scripture address Mary as His mother, but Catholics call her the mother
    of humanity, and as if that were not enough, the queen of heaven.

    Jesus said that anyone who did the will of God was His mother, His brother,
    His sister. Jesus never elevated Mary above others, but Catholics feel a need
    to not just elevate Mary above others, but they put her on a par with Jesus in
    terms of His sinlessness, (do you really think that she needed to be sinless so
    that Jesus Christ could be sinless?).

    They are forced by so-called infallible papal decree to accept the Marian dogmas
    of her bodily assumption and immaculate conception, neither of which have any
    basis whatsoever in Scripture.

    Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven, yet they pray to Mary, because
    their popes tell them to despite what Jesus explicitly instructed.

    Scripture clearly states that there is one intercessor between God and man,
    yet their popes, bishops, priests, parishioners etc, will tell you to pray to Mary,
    and other dead people, for intercession. They fault those who do as Jesus
    suggested, while they disobey Him to follow someone else instead.

    We see nothing in Scripture to endorse her bodily assumption, her perpetual virginity
    (Jesus had siblings after all, two of whom have books in the Bible!), her immaculate
    conception. We see no need to pray to her, or any ability on her part, as dead as she
    is believed to be, to intercede on our behalf against the explicit words of Jesus in Scripture.

    Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which
    Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept: 1) Mary participates
    in redemption with Jesus Christ; 2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the
    intercession of Mary; and 3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through
    Mary, who brings them to the attention of her Son.

    Scripture also tells us not to call anyone Father but God, while
    they call many men "father" and blindly follow them.

    They believe that a fallible man is the Rock that Jesus is building His Church on,
    not a confession of faith divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, despite
    a plethora of Scriptures that attest to the fact that God is the sole Rock
    of our salvation.

    They teach purgatory, and many other things neither the apostles nor Jesus
    ever taught. For instance, they claim priests must be celibate, when they were
    not in the early church. Another example would be infant baptism, nowhere
    promoted in Scripture.
    They burned people at the stake for daring to read the Bible,
    which is what Scripture tells us to do. Despite all this, and more, the
    Catholic Church
    considers herself the only valid expression of the community of God.


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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Let's be honest, there are many false doctrines, all based on the bible. They are all people who went looking for God and fell into one of them. Those who didn't, are lucky they didn't start with one of those for whatever reason.

    The truth is, they spread their gospel better then we spread the truth. Why?
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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2552 View Post
    Let's be honest, there are many false doctrines, all based on the bible. They are all people who went looking for God and fell into one of them. Those who didn't, are lucky they didn't start with one of those for whatever reason.

    The truth is, they spread their gospel better then we spread the truth. Why?
    I think it would be more along the lines of people loving darkness instead of light.....false religions grow leaps and bounds because men hate the truth and would rather flock to a lie......also....Christianity (biblical) except for a few has grown complacent....saved, satisfied and petrified....

    Another consideration is at least two of the three named pushes a works based False Gospel....the more you work and witness and bring in disciples/money the better of a chance you have............
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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2552 View Post
    Let's be honest, there are many false doctrines, all based on the bible. They are all people who went looking for God and fell into one of them. Those who didn't, are lucky they didn't start with one of those for whatever reason.

    The truth is, they spread their gospel better then we spread the truth. Why?
    Because their doctrine is based on works - door darkening!












    “Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion.” - Isaac Newton

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    Evanwood,

    Which of these three groups of you involved with?
    I am none of the above but I know people from all three and they all believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and try to serve him Faithfully

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    How shall you believe in Jesus if you do not know who He is? Doctrine identifies Jesus as the Christ of God. Scripture identifies Jesus as the God-man. Fully God and fully man.

    Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    Romans 10:12 ¶ For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

    Believing in a Jesus that is not the Jesus of the bible is not believing in Jesus unto salvation.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    Im pretty sure all three groups see Jesus as the Son of God. The God-man. But it's not unusual for Christian to disagree on things like the Trinity. Is this a salvation issue?

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    I'm not going to touch this question with a ten foot pole, and I'm going to be a little secretive in my next questions to protect your privacy, but you can feel free to be less cloudy than I'm about to be, if you want to.

    Were you on here in 2015 asking for a prayer request and emotional support, and then something truly miraculous happened? Something about a trip to another country, (after a trip to watch a baseball game), with someone you love dearly? The trip itself had you tied in knots, but the miraculous happened a month or two afterward. So, I'm asking you are you THAT Evan?

    If you are, I'm THAT AtWhatCost (and I'm always Lynn.) I left this site too, and came back.

    If you're not, oops. Sorry 'bout that.
    Sorry not that Evan
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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    Has anyone noticed he hasn't responded at all? I a mean he may be busy but I really hope he isn't one of those make a thread and never respond kind of people
    Sorry Christmas Eve. I'll be posting when I have time. Will get into deeper discussion on the subject later

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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanWood View Post
    Im pretty sure all three groups see Jesus as the Son of God. The God-man. But it's not unusual for Christian to disagree on things like the Trinity. Is this a salvation issue?
    The JW Bible (New World Translation) says Jesus was a god, they do not identify Him as God, but another god and so wouldn't that mean they are polytheistic?

    The New World Translation is unique in one thing – it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group's doctrine. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs.

    The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is
    John 1:1
    . The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.” This is not a matter of correct translation, but of reading one's preconceived theology into the text, rather than allowing the text to speak for itself. There is no indefinite article in Greek (in English, "a" or "an"), so any use of an indefinite article in English must be added by the translator. This is grammatically acceptable, so long as it does not change the meaning of the text.

    The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower's bias is their inconsistent translation technique. Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word theon occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.” Just three verses after
    John 1:1, the New World Translation translates another case of theos without the indefinite article as "God." Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both "God" and "god" in the very same sentence. See more here: https://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html
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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    Has anyone noticed he hasn't responded at all? I a mean he may be busy but I really hope he isn't one of those make a thread and never respond kind of people
    It's Christmas Eve. Most folks are with family and won't be back until Monday.
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    Lynn

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanWood View Post
    Please be nice, don't call names or argue. I hope we have some from these three beliefs on here to put in their views and opinions.

    First I would like to bring up that it is belief in Jesus Christ that saves us. I find often a hatred for these groups in "Christianity" We are to love even our enemies. I was wondering if we are saved by grace through faith, why is there so much animosity toward these groups?
    It's not understandable to me there is so much animosity towards these groups. All Catholics and even Mormons I met never felt any animosity towards Protestants though there may be some, of course. (I'm catholic.)

    Love is more than faith to Jesus. Much more, 'cause He is Love Himself.

    Corinthians 13

    1If I speak in the tonguesa*of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.*2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.*3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,b*but do not have love, I gain nothing.

    4Love is patient, love is kind.
    Last edited by Mishah; December 24th, 2016 at 06:08 PM.

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    There is alot of information to go through if I'm going to respond correctly so I'll probably do it in sections.

    I want to be clear that I am not JW, Mormon, nor Catholic, so I can not represent them. I have had many long talks, in love, learning why they believe what they believe. (If you listen to them they will usually in turn listen to you)
    I don't agree with alot of the doctrines they hold that differ from the typical protestant church. But they do often provide scripture out of the Bible to explain why they believe what they believe.

    I guess I'll start with catholicism.

    The catholics I have met say they do not worship Mary ( or any of the other saints). They explain that prayer is simply a conversation and they feel that the conversations a justified in Hebrews 12:1 where it talks about being surrounded by a cloud of witnesses(the dead saints listed in chapter 11) I believe this is a bit of a stretch but I'll let the Lord judge. They say that prayer and worship are two completely different things. They reference Luke 1:42 which says "blessed are you among women" they say Jesus is God, therefore she is in a way the mother of God, bodily. This makes her unique and holy. Also the reference in regard to saints 1 Timothy 5:17 "Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine."

    As for the priest being called father, Paul made some references to himself as a being like a father Philippians 2:12 is one example. Scripture also says call no man rabbi or teacher Matthew 23:8-10. They would also point out is says to call no one on earth father. We call our earthly fathers father and our earthly teachers teachers then attack their beliefs for calling their priest father.

    As for confession they tell me the Bible says to confess your trespasses one to another in James 5:16 sounds reasonable to me.

    It's pretty late here I'll continue later. BTW I think it helps to understand why people believe what they believe. Sometimes we are so quick to judge and don't even know who we are judging or what they actually believe. If they are in false doctrine are not we to be a light? Calling names won't get people saved. Arguing rarely changes a person's view. We must show love.
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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanWood View Post
    Please be nice, don't call names or argue. I hope we have some from these three beliefs on here to put in their views and opinions.

    First I would like to bring up that it is belief in Jesus Christ that saves us. I find often a hatred for these groups in "Christianity" We are to love even our enemies. I was wondering if we are saved by grace through faith, why is there so much animosity toward these groups?
    I have not read the other post yet but do believe I can answer your question easily. If you know a doctrine is completely false, and is being used to change the minds of your friends, children or family; would you not do what is necessary to show them just what theses other doctrines really are. Yes, even if you are saved by grace, does that mean we get to lay down and play nice with these false doctrines. I thought we were supposed to be out there to get people to change their way of thinking toward Jesus Christ.

    I say this, minus any physical contacts, etc.... A war of words is all He had to convince millions through History.
    Like the Bereans in Acts 17:11 (KJV) "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

    With Jesus Christ as your savior, The Holy Spirit will teach you if you are willing to learn from Him. He will guide you in daily activities if you will listen to Him. He will protect and maintain your soul in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit if you will let Him.

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
    Well, since the Catholic Church is the church which Christ himself established upon the earth two millenia ago...
    Erm... Not exactly. The Catholic church was set up by Constantine a few centuries later.

    It was made by blending sun worship and various groups of believers in Messiah. The church in northern isreal called themsves the natzarim... And still exist. They resemble Messianic and HRM, also the celtic church on the Scots Island of Iona predated the Catholic church. Patrick was a Celtic Christian and kept Saturday Sabbath and only ate kosher animals. The Catholics adopted him after he died. They added in the pig story to sell it. Not well to we Scots who continued to reject pork into the 17th Century. Research it. Several other churches also predate aconstantines church. The believers in Rome were not Catholic until Co stantine said they were or they would die.
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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanWood View Post
    There is alot of information to go through if I'm going to respond correctly so I'll probably do it in sections.

    I want to be clear that I am not JW, Mormon, nor Catholic, so I can not represent them. I have had many long talks, in love, learning why they believe what they believe. (If you listen to them they will usually in turn listen to you)
    I don't agree with alot of the doctrines they hold that differ from the typical protestant church. But they do often provide scripture out of the Bible to explain why they believe what they believe.

    I guess I'll start with catholicism.

    The catholics I have met say they do not worship Mary ( or any of the other saints). They explain that prayer is simply a conversation and they feel that the conversations a justified in Hebrews 12:1 where it talks about being surrounded by a cloud of witnesses(the dead saints listed in chapter 11) I believe this is a bit of a stretch but I'll let the Lord judge. They say that prayer and worship are two completely different things. They reference Luke 1:42 which says "blessed are you among women" they say Jesus is God, therefore she is in a way the mother of God, bodily. This makes her unique and holy. Also the reference in regard to saints 1 Timothy 5:17 "Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine."

    As for the priest being called father, Paul made some references to himself as a being like a father Philippians 2:12 is one example. Scripture also says call no man rabbi or teacher Matthew 23:8-10. They would also point out is says to call no one on earth father. We call our earthly fathers father and our earthly teachers teachers then attack their beliefs for calling their priest father.

    As for confession they tell me the Bible says to confess your trespasses one to another in James 5:16 sounds reasonable to me.

    It's pretty late here I'll continue later. BTW I think it helps to understand why people believe what they believe. Sometimes we are so quick to judge and don't even know who we are judging or what they actually believe. If they are in false doctrine are not we to be a light? Calling names won't get people saved. Arguing rarely changes a person's view. We must show love.
    According to the bible Saints are those who follow Messiah. You guys are all Saints.

    The bible also says the dead know nothing. They have no contact with YHWH. And a few other things that make a conversation with them futile at best and blasphemy or sorcery at worst.
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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanWood View Post
    The catholics I have met say they do not worship Mary ( or any of the other saints). They explain that prayer is simply a conversation and they feel that the conversations a justified in Hebrews 12:1 where it talks about being surrounded by a cloud of witnesses(the dead saints listed in chapter 11) I believe this is a bit of a stretch but I'll let the Lord judge. They say that prayer and worship are two completely different things. They reference Luke 1:42 which says "blessed are you among women" they say Jesus is God, therefore she is in a way the mother of God, bodily. This makes her unique and holy. Also the reference in regard to saints 1 Timothy 5:17 "Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine."
    If you take into consideration the fact that Jesus in no way whatsoever
    elevated His mother above anyone else, you might then get some
    perspective on how much Roman Catholicism elevates her way beyond
    anything that is warranted by Scripture. Jesus called many people blessed
    (see the beatitudes). He rebuked the woman who tried to tell Him that
    His mother was blessed for having borne and suckled Him. Jesus told
    her that anyone who did the will of His Father was His mother, and His
    sister, and His brother. He denied that Mary was any better than anybody
    else, while Catholicism claims she was sinless from conception (they are
    forced by papal decree to accept that as true), had no other children
    (perpetual virginity) despite the fact that two epistles in the Bible are
    written by brothers of Jesus (Jude and James), not to mention the fact
    that it would be a sin for her to withhold herself from her husband and
    the fact that Scripture calls Jesus her firstborn Son and also plainly
    states that she knew her husband after His birth (knowing someone
    Biblically is a euphemism for having carnal knowledge of them which
    is also a way of saying they had sexual intercourse as any husband and
    wife would); they claim she never died apart from anything that is written
    in Scripture, and was assumed bodily to heaven, again apart from anything
    that was written in Scripture, and intercedes between man and God, despite
    the clear Scriptural teaching that there is one mediator only, and it sure
    ain't Mary. Their excessive adoration and veneration of Mary is perverse,
    and directly contradicts Scripture in places to the point of blasphemy.


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