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Thread: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    [for me anyway] it is not a matter of animosity, but a matter of being unequally joined together with false religions: notwithstanding there is a remnant that believe in the true and living God even in the midst of false religion, just as true Christians are in the midst of this present evil world.
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    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
    Well, since the Catholic Church is the church which Christ himself established upon the earth two millenia ago...
    Jesus established the Church, the body of Christ, which is "Catholic" in regards to being "universal" and is made up of all genuine born again believers, but Jesus did not establish the Roman Catholic institution.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanWood View Post
    Please be nice, don't call names or argue. I hope we have some from these three beliefs on here to put in their views and opinions.

    First I would like to bring up that it is belief in Jesus Christ that saves us. I find often a hatred for these groups in "Christianity" We are to love even our enemies. I was wondering if we are saved by grace through faith, why is there so much animosity toward these groups?

    JW's,Mormons,and Catholics,oh my.

    We're off to see Jesus,the wonderful God of all.

    It is obvious that when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity that they did not get rid of their religious ways,but dragged them in to the Bible,and it became their foundation for the interpreting of scriptures.

    It is obvious that Joseph Smith had a belief not part of the Bible,and it became his foundation for the interpreting of scriptures.Mormons do not look at Jesus in the right light,which they say Jesus and Lucifer were brothers,and we existed as spirits with God before being born in to this world.

    Jehovah's witnesses deny who Jesus really is,and Jesus said we will be His witnesses in the world.Jesus is the name that is above all names,not only in this world,but in the world to come.There is no other name by which we are saved,but the name Jesus,and in Micah 5:2 says the Messiah will be from everlasting,which means no beginning,and God said there was no God formed after Him(Isaiah 43:9-10).

    To name a few faults.

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    I did alot of study on jw and catholics.

    Jehova Witness
    - Believe in works for salvation
    - Are told jesus was the angel michael
    - They deny the trinity
    - They get baptized into their religion more then God.

    They have to answer 80 questions before they can even be baptized and then the baptism goes like this

    (1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

    (2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

    Catholicism
    From what i can tell and makes the most sense is when the word of God came to the romans, instead of turning to it completely, they fused it with paganism.

    The pagan gods get moved to key bible figures, pagan feasts get moved to feats in the bible, holidays get moved into the bible has well. They kept their prayer beads, and moved them into the religion. Priest system in paganism get moved into the religion.

    Its a fusion of the two. Half the statues in the vatacin are from paganism and have been renamed into apostles. They should of all been destroyed.

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2552 View Post
    Catholicism
    From what i can tell and makes the most sense is when the word of God came to the romans, instead of turning to it completely, they fused it with paganism.

    The pagan gods get moved to key bible figures, pagan feasts get moved to feats in the bible, holidays get moved into the bible has well. They kept their prayer beads, and moved them into the religion. Priest system in paganism get moved into the religion.

    Its a fusion of the two. Half the statues in the vatacin are from paganism and have been renamed into apostles. They should of all been destroyed.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2552 View Post
    I did alot of study on jw and catholics.

    Jehova Witness
    - Believe in works for salvation
    - Are told jesus was the angel michael
    - They deny the trinity
    - They get baptized into their religion more then God.

    They have to answer 80 questions before they can even be baptized and then the baptism goes like this

    (1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

    (2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

    Catholicism
    From what i can tell and makes the most sense is when the word of God came to the romans, instead of turning to it completely, they fused it with paganism.

    The pagan gods get moved to key bible figures, pagan feasts get moved to feats in the bible, holidays get moved into the bible has well. They kept their prayer beads, and moved them into the religion. Priest system in paganism get moved into the religion.

    Its a fusion of the two. Half the statues in the vatacin are from paganism and have been renamed into apostles. They should of all been destroyed.
    Right,the Roman Catholic Church does identify with paganism,and that is why they do things that would appear to be of the occult,and their religious items,and their practices,and have the Pope,and Mary can be the mother of God,and the Queen of heaven,and confessing sins to the priest,and on and on.

    It is the blending of the two,Christianity,and paganism,which they did not get rid of their religious ways,but dragged them in to the Bible,which is what happened to Mormonism,Scientology,new age movement(1 Timothy 4:2-5),and other,some people have a belief outside the Bible and they interpret scriptures according to it.

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanWood View Post
    Please be nice, don't call names or argue. I hope we have some from these three beliefs on here to put in their views and opinions.

    First I would like to bring up that it is belief in Jesus Christ that saves us. I find often a hatred for these groups in "Christianity" We are to love even our enemies. I was wondering if we are saved by grace through faith, why is there so much animosity toward these groups?
    Since I am not a Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, or Catholic, I am no expert on what these people believe, but if they love the Lord with all their hearts, minds, and souls, and love their neighbors as themselves, then I will consider myself no better than they.
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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2552 View Post
    Let's be honest, there are many false doctrines, all based on the bible. They are all people who went looking for God and fell into one of them. Those who didn't, are lucky they didn't start with one of those for whatever reason.

    The truth is, they spread their gospel better then we spread the truth. Why?
    Apparently, because you think Man seeks and it's all luck?
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanWood View Post
    I am none of the above but I know people from all three and they all believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and try to serve him Faithfully
    Two problems right there:
    1. Satan thinks he's the son of God too.
    2. If I call Bugs Bunny "God" and serve him faithfully, is that enough?
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    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanWood View Post
    Im pretty sure all three groups see Jesus as the Son of God. The God-man. But it's not unusual for Christian to disagree on things like the Trinity. Is this a salvation issue?
    Yes, it is! If you don't believe in the triune God, you might as well believe in Bugs Bunny God. Either one is as false as the other. No one is saved by a false god.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Mishah View Post
    It's not understandable to me there is so much animosity towards these groups. All Catholics and even Mormons I met never felt any animosity towards Protestants though there may be some, of course. (I'm catholic.)

    Love is more than faith to Jesus. Much more, 'cause He is Love Himself.

    Corinthians 13

    1If I speak in the tonguesa*of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.*2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.*3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,b*but do not have love, I gain nothing.

    4Love is patient, love is kind.
    And now lack of animosity saves? Again, the real God -- the one the Bible speaks of -- saves. The Savior is THAT Jesus, not the jesus-who-is-equal-to-us-in-god-stature. Not the jesus who is the son of the Queen of the Universe. Not the jesus who is just another son of God. AND, not the jesus who offers a namby-pamby-whatever-you-make-it defintion of love.
    posthuman, Billyd and Dino246 like this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    And now lack of animosity saves? Again, the real God -- the one the Bible speaks of -- saves. The Savior is THAT Jesus, not the jesus-who-is-equal-to-us-in-god-stature. Not the jesus who is the son of the Queen of the Universe. Not the jesus who is just another son of God. AND, not the jesus who offers a namby-pamby-whatever-you-make-it defintion of love.
    Hey lynn! You and I agree on something!!

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanWood View Post
    There is alot of information to go through if I'm going to respond correctly so I'll probably do it in sections.

    I want to be clear that I am not JW, Mormon, nor Catholic, so I can not represent them. I have had many long talks, in love, learning why they believe what they believe. (If you listen to them they will usually in turn listen to you)
    I don't agree with alot of the doctrines they hold that differ from the typical protestant church. But they do often provide scripture out of the Bible to explain why they believe what they believe.

    I guess I'll start with catholicism.

    The catholics I have met say they do not worship Mary ( or any of the other saints). They explain that prayer is simply a conversation and they feel that the conversations a justified in Hebrews 12:1 where it talks about being surrounded by a cloud of witnesses(the dead saints listed in chapter 11) I believe this is a bit of a stretch but I'll let the Lord judge. They say that prayer and worship are two completely different things. They reference Luke 1:42 which says "blessed are you among women" they say Jesus is God, therefore she is in a way the mother of God, bodily. This makes her unique and holy. Also the reference in regard to saints 1 Timothy 5:17 "Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine."

    As for the priest being called father, Paul made some references to himself as a being like a father Philippians 2:12 is one example. Scripture also says call no man rabbi or teacher Matthew 23:8-10. They would also point out is says to call no one on earth father. We call our earthly fathers father and our earthly teachers teachers then attack their beliefs for calling their priest father.

    As for confession they tell me the Bible says to confess your trespasses one to another in James 5:16 sounds reasonable to me.

    It's pretty late here I'll continue later. BTW I think it helps to understand why people believe what they believe. Sometimes we are so quick to judge and don't even know who we are judging or what they actually believe. If they are in false doctrine are not we to be a light? Calling names won't get people saved. Arguing rarely changes a person's view. We must show love.
    Have you ever tried for equal time with a JW? They like it when you listen, but they don't like it when they are supposed to give equal time and listen.

    An old friend of hubby, (the same women who brought him to the Lord after he spent weeks coming to her house to prove to her there is no God lol), made a deal with a couple of JW's who came to her door. "I will invite you in, we can eat together and enjoy each other, and you can tell me everything you want to tell me, while I listen. In return, I want equal time to reply."

    They agreed to those terms, had a lovely lunch she prepared while all the time preaching their message. She never interrupted, and she truly listened.

    When they were done, they got up to leave. She slipped passed them, locked thedoor, and stood in front of them, and asked one thing, "Am I to understand if I follow your god I, too, can break my word?"

    So they sat down, she offered them so more coffee, and got out her Bible. Point by point, she went through everything they said and proved them wrong using the same Bible they had. (She could only do that because she listened.) They tried to interrupt, but she reminded them of the agreement. And she stopped at the same amount of time they used.

    And then they bolted out the door and ran away. She has never had a JW come to her door since.

    That's how they listen. That's how those who hate God listen. That's how hubby listened, except for one difference. He wanted to keep coming back to prove her wrong. And she kept getting out her trusty Bible.

    And one night he went home fuming and he thought about killing her. He went to sleep that night with that thought. He woke up reborn.

    Love isn't passive.

    Tain't much good listening to false gospels until you learn the real one. False gospels tend to come from people who hate the real God so make him into someone they can love. Until you get that, the only thing listening does is draw you in further to a false god.

    (And, yeah, it's Christmas, so I know it might take you a bit to get to this answer.)
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    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by MacBestus View Post
    Hey lynn! You and I agree on something!!
    Dagnabit!

    lol
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    it would be nice if Christians followed what Jesus taught. if people reject your teachings shake the dust and move on to another town. when Jesus asked the 12 who the crowds thought He was they thought many things, Jesus didnt force them against their will to believe in one universal thing.
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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanWood View Post
    Please be nice, don't call names or argue. I hope we have some from these three beliefs on here to put in their views and opinions.

    First I would like to bring up that it is belief in Jesus Christ that saves us. I find often a hatred for these groups in "Christianity" We are to love even our enemies. I was wondering if we are saved by grace through faith, why is there so much animosity toward these groups?
    JWs and Mormons on not trinitarians. The latter group teaches that we can become gods.

    RCs are trinitarians. While I, formerly one of them, now disagree with them doctrinally, I do not consider them non-Christian.

    I find the RC bashing frustrating. I also find it interesting that the Eastern Orthodox church(and Coptic church, for that matter) is often excluded from the relentless attacks.
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    Often neglected verses on tithing: "‘If, therefore, a man wishes to redeem part of his tithe, he shall add to it one-fifth of it. ‘For every tenth part of herd or flock, whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the LORD. ‘He is not to be concerned whether it is good or bad, nor shall he exchange it; or if he does exchange it, then both it and its substitute shall become holy. It shall not be redeemed.’” -Lev 27:32-33.

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    The truth is out their, its everywhere, but everyone is blind, and Satan is always ready to deceive and pull people off of the right path.

    Lets take Catholic's for example, i have talked to a couple of Catholics, and they all believe that they don't need to be baptized because they were baptized as a baby. A baby can't repent and a baby can't believe in God. Take symbolism of baptism aside, take the need to get baptized for salvation aside. Take the whole theology from baptism and whether we need it to wash away our sins or not, and put it aside.

    What is the core truth?
    Why did Jesus get baptized he was sinless?
    We do it because it is clear in the bible, that God tells us to repent, and get baptized, its as simple as that, out of obedience to God. Tell them that and they don't know how to respond, because there really is no theological or scriptural debate for it.

    Above all though what i have found to be the most effective.

    Just invite them out, hey i plan on fasting and praying for a couple days, do you want to join me?

    I'm going to do a bible study about a particular subject, lets put theological discussion aside and figure out the truth. Why don't you come around?

    The more they see you, the more they hear the word, how you pray, how you read the bible, how close you are to God. How you seem to know answers to things that they don't understand. They start to notice the difference between you and their doctrines, and they start to ask questions.

    After all, the light and the truth is in us, we just need to learn to let it shine. That is why its so important, to learn to live in the light, and become an example for people, because that is what people see the most, and that is what is going to draw people to Christ, not scriptural debates.

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2552 View Post
    The truth is out their, its everywhere, but everyone is blind, and Satan is always ready to deceive and pull people off of the right path.

    Lets take Catholic's for example, i have talked to a couple of Catholics, and they all believe that they don't need to be baptized because they were baptized as a baby. A baby can't repent and a baby can't believe in God. Take symbolism of baptism aside, take the need to get baptized for salvation aside. Take the whole theology from baptism and whether we need it to wash away our sins or not, and put it aside.

    What is the core truth?
    Why did Jesus get baptized he was sinless?
    We do it because it is clear in the bible, that God tells us to repent, and get baptized, its as simple as that, out of obedience to God. Tell them that and they don't know how to respond, because there really is no theological or scriptural debate for it.

    Above all though what i have found to be the most effective.

    Just invite them out, hey i plan on fasting and praying for a couple days, do you want to join me?

    I'm going to do a bible study about a particular subject, lets put theological discussion aside and figure out the truth. Why don't you come around?

    The more they see you, the more they hear the word, how you pray, how you read the bible, how close you are to God. How you seem to know answers to things that they don't understand. They start to notice the difference between you and their doctrines, and they start to ask questions.

    After all, the light and the truth is in us, we just need to learn to let it shine. That is why its so important, to learn to live in the light, and become an example for people, because that is what people see the most, and that is what is going to draw people to Christ, not scriptural debates.
    I'm not RCC anymore, but I trustyour version of how to be saved less than their version.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanWood View Post
    Please be nice, don't call names or argue. I hope we have some from these three beliefs on here to put in their views and opinions.

    First I would like to bring up that it is belief in Jesus Christ that saves us. I find often a hatred for these groups in "Christianity" We are to love even our enemies. I was wondering if we are saved by grace through faith, why is there so much animosity toward these groups?
    To hate false religions that are leading people into the eternal fire is a good thing indeed and all Christians should hate the teachings of the JW , Mormon and catholic religions... Do not mix up hate for lies and deceptions with hate for people..

    Anyone who has any love for the people who are ensnared by these evil deceiving religions will go in hard against these false religions out of the desire to save those who have been deceived by them.. To save them by clearly pointing out the lies that these religions teach their congregants..

    I am an ex-catholic.. I have family who are still catholics.. And i do not hate them because they are caught up in a deception.. I wish for them to be saved...

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    Default Re: JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    To hate false religions that are leading people into the eternal fire is a good thing indeed and all Christians should hate the teachings of the JW , Mormon and catholic religions... Do not mix up hate for lies and deceptions with hate for people..

    Anyone who has any love for the people who are ensnared by these evil deceiving religions will go in hard against these false religions out of the desire to save those who have been deceived by them.. To save them by clearly pointing out the lies that these religions teach their congregants..

    I am an ex-catholic.. I have family who are still catholics.. And i do not hate them because they are caught up in a deception.. I wish for them to be saved...
    JWs and Mormons are in a different class than RCs.

    The first two reject the trinity. JWs limited the number of "born-agains" and Mormons believe all can become gods.

    While it is my opinion that many RCs are lost, there is still hope. Those who follow their RC faith close, and listen inventively to the Pope, will discover that he does encourage a relationship with Jesus Christ:

    I invite all Christians, everywhere, at this very moment, to a renewed personal encounter with Jesus Christ, or at least an openness to letting him encounter them; I ask all of you to do this unfailingly each day. No one should think that this invitation is not meant for him or her, since “no one is excluded from the joy brought by the Lord. The Lord does not disappoint those who take this risk; whenever we take a step towards Jesus, we come to realize that he is already there, waiting for us with open arms. Now is the time to say to Jesus: “Lord, I have let myself be deceived; in a thousand ways I have shunned your love, yet here I am once more, to renew my covenant with you. I need you. Save me once again, Lord, take me once more into your redeeming embrace”. How good it feels to come back to him whenever we are lost! Let me say this once more: God never tires of forgiving us; we are the ones who tire of seeking his mercy. Christ, who told us to forgive one another “seventy times seven” (Mt 18:22) has given us his example: he has forgiven us seventy times seven. Time and time again he bears us on his shoulders. No one can strip us of the dignity bestowed upon us by this boundless and unfailing love. With a tenderness which never disappoints, but is always capable of restoring our joy, he makes it possible for us to lift up our heads and to start anew. Let us not flee from the resurrection of Jesus, let us never give up, come what will. May nothing inspire more than his life, which impels us onwards! -EVANGELII GAUDIUM


    Often neglected verses on tithing: "‘If, therefore, a man wishes to redeem part of his tithe, he shall add to it one-fifth of it. ‘For every tenth part of herd or flock, whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the LORD. ‘He is not to be concerned whether it is good or bad, nor shall he exchange it; or if he does exchange it, then both it and its substitute shall become holy. It shall not be redeemed.’” -Lev 27:32-33.

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