Turning From Sin = Repentance?

[BenFTW]

Exert: Like faith, repentance has intellectual, emotional, and volitional ramifications. Berkhof describes the intellectual element of repentance as "a change of view, a recognition of sin as involving personal guilt, defilement, and helplessness." The emotional element is "a change of feeling, manifesting itself in sorrow for sin committed against a holy God." The volitional element is "a change of purpose, an inward turning away from sin, and a disposition to seek pardon and cleansing." (Berkhof, Systematic Theology, 486) Each of those three elements is deficient apart from the others. Repentance is a response of the total person; therefore some speak of it as total surrender.

From: http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A330/What-Is-Biblical-Repentance

What are your thoughts on repentance and its place in the NT, even so under the new covenant? The link above describes another understanding of repentance as such...

Exert: But the predominate no-lordship view on repentance is simply to redefine repentance as a change of mind—not a turning from sin or a change of purpose. This view states, "In both the Old and New Testaments repentance means 'to change one's mind' " (Ryire, So Great Salvation, 92). "Is repentance a condition for receiving eternal life? Yes, if it is repentance or changing one's mind about Jesus Christ. No if it means to be sorry for sin or even resolve to turn from sin" (SGS 99). Repentance by that definition is simply a synonym for the no-lordship definition of faith. It is simply an intellectual exercise.

Note that the no-lordship definition of repentance explicitly denies the emotional and volitional elements in Berkhof's description of repentance. No-lordship repentance is not "be[ing] sorry for sin or even resolv[ing] to turn from sin." It means simply "changing one's mind about his former conception of God and disbelief in God and Christ" (SGS 98). Again, one could experience that kind of "repentance" without any understanding of the gravity of sin or the severity of God's judgment against sinners. It is a remorseless, hollow, pseudorepentance.

Thoughts?

 

[phil36]

The modern Hyper Grace movement takes its lead from the no-Lordship movement in regards to repentance, so it is interesting that you bring this up BenFTW.

A tipping of the hat, or a shrug of the shoulders and agreeing that you did something is not repentance..

A mature Christian would realize the failure/error in this sort of teaching, even just from their own experience and would at once agree with Berkhoff about the intellect and emotions. The Spirit of Truth abides in us... As Christians we have that experience of conviction over sin.. but what a joy when we repent in the name of our Lord Jesus. Just remember we are positionally righteous but practically sinful. That's why John says when referring to believers that if we confess God is faithful and just to forgive....

Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour..

A good lot errors arise when people start emphasizing one thing over another like the No-lordship movement and the more modern Hyper grace movement

 

[G00WZ]

Turning from sin is just what it is, turning away from it...anyone can do it.. but repentance is when you find out who you are/were, and it grieves that person.. what follows next should be accepting Christ and what he has done...I have seen stone cold killers turn away from their sin, repent and deny Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

As to the "Lordship salvation" issue - here is a whole thread that discusses that.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/137878-lordship-salvation-false-teaching.html

 

[notuptome]

Turning from self toward Christ is repentance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grace777x70]

Let's look at it through what scripture has to say about repentance ( changing our mind - the way we think ) concerning preaching the gospel. I know we have been taught differently through our religious upbringing and beliefs handed down to us. Let's let God's word speak life to us.

Peter preached the gospel of the grace of Christ. to Cornelius ..no word used for repentence was said

Acts 10:43-44 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness thatthrough His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

[SUP]44[/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

They were not told to "repent" here.

I love how the Holy Spirit "falls upon " them as soon as they hear about the forgiveness of sins proclaimed to them because of Christ!

Peter got in trouble with the Jewish Christians when he went back because he went into a gentile's house and preached the gospel to them...he says in Acts 11:17,18

Acts 11:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"

[SUP]18 [/SUP] When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

What was their repentance even tho the word "repent" was not used?...they changed their mind toward God and had faith in Jesus and in His complete forgiveness of sins. This is the gospel message.

Notice that it was God that granted them repentance.

New Covenant repentance is not something we conjure up on our own nor is it a work we produce.

2 Tim 2:24-25 says that God may grant them repentance so that they may know the truth. God grants the repentance....not a work we do on our own.

Paul preached the gospel of grace here in the only recorded time in scripture.

Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Again ..no telling them to "repent" was voiced here either by Paul...but Paul did tell them .." urged them to continue in the grace of God"

Both of the examples we have of New Covenant preaching about the gospel of grace had NO words of telling people to repent.

These clearly show that "repentance " was not told to them and yet they all repented. Imagine that!


So, repentance does not mean "turn from sin"..it means change your mind ( change your way of thinking and rely on God only for things dealing with your life) and turn to God and believe in Jesus and what He has already done.

This does include the way we look at sinning and it's destructive deceitfulness.

There is a change after we come to Christ and His life in us transforms us. This is where we see the "fruit" of repentance. Fruit is not the "root" of repentance.

Fruit of an exchanged life comes after we have "repented " - changed our thinking to rely on Christ's work only for salvation.

We all need to repent every day as we hear the beauty of our Lord proclaimed!

Brethern ...I urge you to believe in the awesome greatness and splendor of our Lord's magnificent finished work on our behalf!

 

[NotmebutHim]

If I understand your question, are you asking what repentance means for the believer?

If so, here's my take on it:

While I don't believe that repentance means "turning from sin", I do believe that, depending on the process of sanctification for each person, the saved will WANT to please Christ and therefore "sin less" in their lives. It's not that they believe that sinning less will earn them places in heaven (for Christ already gave His life for them), but that they love Him so much that they want to please Him.

I'm reminded of what John the Baptist said to the scribes and Pharisees who were coming to him, "Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance". I take that passage to mean that their fruits are evidence of their repentance, not the repentance itself. Similar to when James wrote that it's not enough to merely say that you have faith; you have to show it by your works.

I believe that there is NO way we can earn our salvation. At the same time, however, that doesn't mean that we SHOULDN'T be obedient to Christ. The Spirit gives us the power & ability to be obedient, but that's not what gets us into the presence of God.

Plus, I think that the phrase "make Christ Lord of one's life" is a misnomer, because Christ is Lord over all already. We, as His children, may disobey Him often, but that doesn't mean that He's not the Lord during those times. It's like a human kingdom; just because the people don't always follow the king's laws doesn't make the king any less of a ruler over them.

 

[Grace777x70]

Repentance comes with the hearing of Christ and what He has already done.

We should be living in a constant mode of repenting ( changing our minds about what we believe ) whenever we hear a new truth about the beauty of our Lord.

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

The word "repentance" - metanoia as been shown by others simply in the original greek means " to change the mind - ".

In Jesus and Paul's day the word would be used in a sentence like this. " I was going to the synagogue but I metanoia (changed my mind ) and went to the market.

There are "fruits" of repentance ( changing the mind ) as in the case above...the person "went to the market". ( every fiber of my being wants to say..."and this little piggy stayed home".....but I will refrain... )

To us it means to change our mind to stop relying on ourselves and our thinking and turn to God. Stop living our own life with our own thinking and come to Christ and let His life live through and in you. Receive all that Jesus did for us in His finished work.

We should be repenting ( changing how we think towards something ) constantly as we see the Lord's true nature, love and grace revealed to and in us.

There will always be "fruits" of having a changed mind ( having repented ) to God but the "fruit" is not the repentance within itself. True repentance is the "root" before the "fruit" comes.

The fruit will manifest itself in the form of having a changed heart because we are a new creation in Christ.

This will also show in behavior as the life of Christ transforms our outward life to reflect what has already happened in our inner man - that new creation in Christ.

Sometimes our religious traditions can "hi-jack" the meanings of words and can present false assumptions.

Here is a video for those that like to watch them that talks about how the English word "repent" got hi-jacked by religion.

[video=vimeo;112172173]https://vimeo.com/112172173[/video]

 

[posthuman]

if being changed in disposition toward sin doesn't effect change in emotion with respect to sin and work toward change in volition regarding sin, aren't we talking about a double-minded man?

that could be an effect of doubt, seeking and following after Him. ((re James 1:5-8))

 

[G00WZ]

simple fact is, if the person does not have Christ, they have no foundation,they can't have any forgiveness from God, and they will be judged.

 

[phil36]

Grace777

Lol I'll stick with what has always been understood by the faithful concerning repentance, we don't need to rethink.

If you sin you will feel sorry for it.. the mature christian's certainly knows this. But, we know and praise God for his grace because if we repent (not Hyper graces new remodelling of repentance), God is faithful to forgive us our sins, now that is joyous..

 

[Grace777x70]

Grace777

Lol I'll stick with what has always been understood by the faithful concerning repentance, we don't need to rethink.

If you sin you will feel sorry for it.. the mature christian's certainly knows this. But, we know and praise God for his grace because if we repent (not Hyper graces new remodelling of repentance), God is faithful to forgive us our sins, now that is joyous..

Well Phil36 - true repentance is believing in all that Christ has done and yes - that includes our view of sinning as well as our view of the majesty of the grace of God as revealed in the true gospel message. Our sins are forgiven because of the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ - but that's a different subject.

Feel free to start a thread on that and I will post the scriptures that speak to that topic. ...I love to talk about the grace of God and the forgiveness of sins as it is the gospel message.

It's time to "repent" and believe the gospel!

If you review post #6 again - you will find word-for-word examples of the true gospel being preached by Peter and Paul. It does violate some of our religious teachings but truth has a way of doing that to all of us.

 

[phil36]

Well Phil36 - true repentance is believing in all that Christ has done and yes - that includes our view of sinning as well as our view of the majesty of the grace of God as revealed in the true gospel message. Our sins are forgiven because of the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ - but that's a different subject.

Feel free to start a thread on that and I will post the scriptures that speak to that topic. ...I love to talk about the grace of God and the forgiveness of sins as it is the gospel message.

It's time to "repent" and believe the gospel!

If you review post #6 again - you will find word-for-word examples of the true gospel being preached by Peter and Paul. It does violate some of our religious teachings but truth has a way of doing that to all of us.

Hi Grace777,

As you know I have read your posts for a long long long time. Again I will stick with what the faithful have always believed and taught on repentance.. Unless of course you are trying to say that the the faithfull throughout redemptive history have had it all wrong and the very new hyper grace movement have all of a sudden gotten it right? We know that certainly is not the case!

If it where merely an intellectual issue then I may be inclined to believe you, However, We are not merely intellectual beings..are we?

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi Grace777,

As you know I have read your posts for a long long long time. Again I will stick with what the faithful have always believed and taught on repentance.. Unless of course you are trying to say that the the faithfull throughout redemptive history have had it all wrong and the very new hyper grace movement have all of a sudden gotten it right? We know that certainly is not the case!

If it where merely an intellectual issue then I may be inclined to believe you, However, We are not merely intellectual beings..are we?

As I said Phil - read post #6 again and it is there that we have word-for-word accounts of the true gospel being preached. You are free to believe what ever you want - I will stick with Jesus, Peter and Paul.

Mark 1:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,

[SUP]15 [/SUP] and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

Believe the "good news" - your sins are forgiven if you believe in Christ.

Here is Peter preaching the gospel to the gentiles at Cornelius's house.

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

Here is Paul preaching the exact same gospel - only this time to the Jews . Paul is a little long winded with them because they as other religiously minded people are trying to create their own righteousness.

Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

 

[BenFTW]

Let's look at it through what scripture has to say about repentance ( changing our mind - the way we think ) concerning preaching the gospel. I know we have been taught differently through our religious upbringing and beliefs handed down to us. Let's let God's word speak life to us.

Peter preached the gospel of the grace of Christ. to Cornelius ..no word used for repentence was said

Acts 10:43-44 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness thatthrough His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

[SUP]44[/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

They were not told to "repent" here.

I love how the Holy Spirit "falls upon " them as soon as they hear about the forgiveness of sins proclaimed to them because of Christ!

Peter got in trouble with the Jewish Christians when he went back because he went into a gentile's house and preached the gospel to them...he says in Acts 11:17,18

Acts 11:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"

[SUP]18 [/SUP] When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

What was their repentance even tho the word "repent" was not used?...they changed their mind toward God and had faith in Jesus and in His complete forgiveness of sins. This is the gospel message.

Notice that it was God that granted them repentance.

New Covenant repentance is not something we conjure up on our own nor is it a work we produce.

2 Tim 2:24-25 says that God may grant them repentance so that they may know the truth. God grants the repentance....not a work we do on our own.

Paul preached the gospel of grace here in the only recorded time in scripture.

Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Again ..no telling them to "repent" was voiced here either by Paul...but Paul did tell them .." urged them to continue in the grace of God"

Both of the examples we have of New Covenant preaching about the gospel of grace had NO words of telling people to repent.

These clearly show that "repentance " was not told to them and yet they all repented. Imagine that!


So, repentance does not mean "turn from sin"..it means change your mind ( change your way of thinking and rely on God only for things dealing with your life) and turn to God and believe in Jesus and what He has already done.

This does include the way we look at sinning and it's destructive deceitfulness.

There is a change after we come to Christ and His life in us transforms us. This is where we see the "fruit" of repentance. Fruit is not the "root" of repentance.

Fruit of an exchanged life comes after we have "repented " - changed our thinking to rely on Christ's work only for salvation.

We all need to repent every day as we hear the beauty of our Lord proclaimed!

Brethern ...I urge you to believe in the awesome greatness and splendor of our Lord's magnificent finished work on our behalf!

For the sake of understanding and not to press you, but why do you add emphasis to New Covenant repentance as opposed to just repentance? What is your justification for differentiating between the two, scripturally? Is there a difference between old covenant repentance and new testament repentance, if so why? Does it have something to do with the cross and Jesus Christ's sacrifice? Did the cross change things?

 

[Willie-T]

For the sake of understanding and not to press you, but why do you add emphasis to New Covenant repentance as opposed to just repentance? What is your justification for differentiating between the two, scripturally? Is there a difference between old covenant repentance and new testament repentance, if so why? Does it have something to do with the cross and Jesus Christ's sacrifice? Did the cross change things?

You got me! Until I finally reached your last sentence, I was starting to think: "What is wrong with this guy; has he lost his mind?" LOL

 

[phil36]

As I said Phil - read post #6 again and it is there that we have word-for-word accounts of the true gospel being preached. You are free to believe what ever you want - I will stick with Jesus, Peter and Paul.

Mark 1:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,

[SUP]15 [/SUP] and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

Believe the "good news" - your sins are forgiven if you believe in Christ.

Here is Peter preaching the gospel to the gentiles at Cornelius's house.

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

Here is Paul preaching the exact same gospel - only this time to the Jews . Paul is a little long winded with them because they as other religiously minded people are trying to create their own righteousness.

Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Yep, I love those scriptures, I love that scripture in acts...

[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]To him [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]all the prophets bear witness that [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]everyone who believes in him receives [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]forgiveness of sins [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]through his name.” Acts 10:43.

[/FONT]But it is very easy to just fire out one line scriptures....but what do they mean..

What is the gospel?

What is forgiveness, what does it mean and entail?

what does it mean to believe in His name?

oh and what does repentance mean and entail? repent from what?

What does' the Spirit of truth mean? (who lives in you), what does that entail---especially the truth part, how does the Spirit of truth affect your emotions or does he?

I'll stick with what has always been taught by the faithful and not a new revision/rethinking. Yes and I did read post #6

 

[Blain]

Repentance is a state of the heart, as with everything in both life and in faith the heart is what makes the difference. There many ways to view and understand repentance grace and salvation and each one will fight to the death to show theirs is the correct way but regardless of the understanding of repentance I believe the heart of the person shows more than what their description with words does.

I even just got done getting out of the shower talking to God I was feeling guilt and feeling weak remembering all my screw ups and all my sins all my flaws and weaknesses in my past and I could feel my heart becoming heavy and could feel my soul beginning to feel weak not the way the holy spirit convicts us but the way satan reminds us of our failures and tried to break us and in this midst of all this I said to God- you know Lord I have a long ways to go and I have much more to learn and grow in you in life in maturity and as both a person and a believer and I have screwed up and fallen so many times in my life and I will fall and screw up many many more times in the future.

But it doesn't matter how many times we fall down what matters is will we stay down or get back up. I believe I have a repentant heart but while the spirit is willing the flesh is weak I have yet to be able to defeat some of my weaknesses and the enemy loves to hang that over me but repentance isn't always an instant thing sometimes while having a repentant heart we will struggle with a certain thorn in our side and this doesn't mean we are not repentant or that we are misusing God's grace because I know many of us struggle with sins that we feel absolutely horrible about yet have been unable to beat them yet.

The thing is hardly anything is ever as it seems sometimes a thorn in our side remains as part of God's shaping us

 

[Grace777x70]

For the sake of understanding and not to press you, but why do you add emphasis to New Covenant repentance as opposed to just repentance? What is your justification for differentiating between the two, scripturally? Is there a difference between old covenant repentance and new testament repentance, if so why? Does it have something to do with the cross and Jesus Christ's sacrifice? Did the cross change things?

Yes...the cross changed everything along with the resurrection because if Christ is not raised from the dead - we are still in our sins.

New Covenant repentance has everything to do with the cross and resurrection of Christ. Old Covenant repentance was in sackcloth and ashes mostly it seemed and elicited a response from their own will-power.

Old Covenant thinking was based on what they did. New Covenant is based on believing what Christ has done in His finished work. His life in us now effects our response from the inside out. The Old was in the letter of the law - the New is the newness of the Spirit.

The creation of the new man in Christ which has been created in righteousness and holiness will bear the fruit of an exchanged life which will reflect in our outward behavior and the way we think about God and His truth as revealed in Christ and yes - this does include the way we view sinning.

That's the way I view the difference between the Old and the New - I'm sure there is more to it too...

 

[PinkDiamond]

Exert: Like faith, repentance has intellectual, emotional, and volitional ramifications. Berkhof describes the intellectual element of repentance as "a change of view, a recognition of sin as involving personal guilt, defilement, and helplessness." The emotional element is "a change of feeling, manifesting itself in sorrow for sin committed against a holy God." The volitional element is "a change of purpose, an inward turning away from sin, and a disposition to seek pardon and cleansing." (Berkhof, Systematic Theology, 486) Each of those three elements is deficient apart from the others. Repentance is a response of the total person; therefore some speak of it as total surrender.

From: http://www.gty.org/resources/Articles/A330/What-Is-Biblical-Repentance

What are your thoughts on repentance and its place in the NT, even so under the new covenant? The link above describes another understanding of repentance as such...

Exert: But the predominate no-lordship view on repentance is simply to redefine repentance as a change of mind—not a turning from sin or a change of purpose. This view states, "In both the Old and New Testaments repentance means 'to change one's mind' " (Ryire, So Great Salvation, 92). "Is repentance a condition for receiving eternal life? Yes, if it is repentance or changing one's mind about Jesus Christ. No if it means to be sorry for sin or even resolve to turn from sin" (SGS 99). Repentance by that definition is simply a synonym for the no-lordship definition of faith. It is simply an intellectual exercise.

Note that the no-lordship definition of repentance explicitly denies the emotional and volitional elements in Berkhof's description of repentance. No-lordship repentance is not "be[ing] sorry for sin or even resolv[ing] to turn from sin." It means simply "changing one's mind about his former conception of God and disbelief in God and Christ" (SGS 98). Again, one could experience that kind of "repentance" without any understanding of the gravity of sin or the severity of God's judgment against sinners. It is a remorseless, hollow, pseudorepentance.

Thoughts?

I've had many times in my life that I've experienced sorrow over my sin and have been grieved to realize how my actions had injured God. I think the very definition of loving God is that we desire to do what pleases him and not what injures him. When we love him we seek his welfare and happiness. I've had times that I regretted certain choices or actions, but it wasn't until I confessed these sins and felt some sorrow or sympathy for God that I felt truly restored and at peace. I'd personally agree more with the first definition of repentance that you shared. I agree with the emotional, intellectual, and volitional aspects of repentance. I really feel that the account of Peter weeping bitterly after he had denied Christ and his emotional restoration is the perfect example of NT repentance