The big bang the god particle and the universe

[Rondonmon]

Precisely my point, if you have nothing you cannot make something out of it because it doesn't exist and scientists have been trying for a long time to make their big bang theory absolute even enough to completely debunk the existence of God himself which would be the greatest victory for science my friend even said that he hopes science does this because he wants religion of all kinds non existent he even assumes if you believe in religion at all your dumb because to logically believe in such nonsense as he puts it shows a great lack of any kind of intelligence and he knows about my brain damage and blames that for my faith in God lol.

as for the well written estimation comment I appreciate it, I don't write in this manner that much only when I am doing research and when the science nerd in me arises lol

The Big Bang actually proves Gods existence. Scientists in the 1800's were sure the Universe was eternal, thus needed no creator. Even up to the 1950's this was a prevailing opinion, then in 1964, Robert Wilson and Arno Penzias discovered the Echo of the Big Bang and then all of the sudden, the Bible was proved right, there was a Beginning, just like Genesis chapter one says. So the Big Bang proves God, not disproves Him.

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]God either lives outside of time, and created cause and effect for us, or lives in multiple planes of time at once, thereby time would have no constraints on God. So even though all things have a beginning, God has ALWAYS BEEN, thus needs not to be created, he is Eternal.

Scientists have actually discovered God, they just do not know it !! This is true. They have discovered "Quantum Fluctuations" and they can prove that something can come from nothing, as long as you have these quantum fluctuations, which is only the "Laws of Nature" or a Set of Forces". Notice the Quantum Fluctuations which brought forth Inflation, thus the Big Bang, thus the Universe was created....................

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The reason I was studying Quantum Fluctuations is I found out that Scientists were stating that what caused the Big Bang was Q.F.'s, so as long as you had Q.F.'s or the Laws of Nature/A Set of Forces, something could come from nothing. But there is a catch. And I bet most scientist can't sees it !! So Science has discovered you can create the Universe from nothing, providing we have the Forces/Laws of Nature (Q.F.) and these Laws of Nature aren't Physical, but they act on the physical. So if they Create the universe, that means they Predate the universe. WOW, do you see it coming ?

Quantum Fluctuations (Set of forces/Laws of nature, is a must)
1) Not Physical
2) Acts on the Physical
3) Created the Physical from Nothing
4) Predates the Universe

What does that sound like to you ? The Biblical God !!

1. God is a Spirit He is not a Physical being ( God is a Spirit and must be worshiped in like manner )
2. God said, In the Beginning ( So the Physical had a beginning )
3. God created all matter from nothing ( God created the Heaven and the Earth )
4. God is Eternal, the bible says so in many places.

 

[jaybird88]

i wasnt aware the god particle had been found, and if it has, how do you go about proving there is nothing smaller? when they discovered molecules in the 1800s did they not announce to the world they have found the smallest thing? then came the atoms, electrons, nucleus, neutrons, and on and on and on . . . .

explains why so many physicist are bailing on the concept of materialism.

im like blain, I lack the intelligence to fully understand it all. we need post human and his big nerd brain to explain it to us.

 

[Tintin]

i wasnt aware the god particle had been found, and if it has, how do you go about proving there is nothing smaller? when they discovered molecules in the 1800s did they not announce to the world they have found the smallest thing? then came the atoms, electrons, nucleus, neutrons, and on and on and on . . . .

explains why so many physicist are bailing on the concept of materialism.

im like blain, I lack the intelligence to fully understand it all. we need post human and his big nerd brain to explain it to us.

Many physicists are bailing on the concept of materialism? Are you sure about that? Because, while evolutionists have always invoked a kind of pantheism, it's becoming all the more apparent with their appeal to dark matter and all kinds of bollocks that they give godly powers without any of the accountability to God. And yet, they try to say that it's all science, that's it's all naturalistic. It's really just another neo-evolutionist jump of logic in the materialist magician* worldview.

*C.S. Lewis' term

 

[jaybird88]

Many physicists are bailing on the concept of materialism? Are you sure about that? Because, while evolutionists have always invoked a kind of pantheism, it's becoming all the more apparent with their appeal to dark matter and all kinds of bollocks that they give godly powers without any of the accountability to God. And yet, they try to say that it's all science, that's it's all naturalistic. It's really just another neo-evolutionist jump of logic in the materialist magician* worldview.

*C.S. Lewis' term

a lot more scientist are coming out now and taking a closer look at many theories today, 20 yrs back you had to keep your mouth shut or you would never work again. dark matter is another that most likely doesnt exist.

 

[Tintin]

a lot more scientist are coming out now and taking a closer look at many theories today, 20 yrs back you had to keep your mouth shut or you would never work again. dark matter is another that most likely doesnt exist.

It's true that more scientists are 'coming out' of the closet. But I think you'll find you still have to keep your mouth shut or you'll lose your job. As for dark matter, you're right.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

In a sense I do believe in the big bang because the word first Hebrew word in the Bible "beresheet" is correctly translated as In the beginning but can also be translated as With a rumbling and shacking... therefor BIG BANG KABOOOM.

 

[Tintin]

In a sense I do believe in the big bang because the word first Hebrew word in the Bible "beresheet" is correctly translated as In the beginning but can also be translated as With a rumbling and shacking... therefor BIG BANG KABOOOM.

I've never heard that one before, brother. Can you show me where you learnt this? Or a link that provides a similar understanding? Thanks.

 

[NewWine]

I can't speak on the God particle yet, but as for the big bang theory.....I've built a house and it was quite a noisy endeavor, so I would imagine creation of an entire universe would be a noisy event.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I've never heard that one before, brother. Can you show me where you learnt this? Or a link that provides a similar understanding? Thanks.

Not on the internet.

Our pastor is a professor in Hebrew and he explained it to us in one of our Hebrew classes. I will have to revisit what he explained because there are different ways of breaking up the word Beresheet and it was over a year ago

 

[Tintin]

Not on the internet.

Our pastor is a professor in Hebrew and he explained it to us in one of our Hebrew classes. I will have to revisit what he explained because there are different ways of breaking up the word Beresheet and it was over a year ago

Okay, thanks, brother.

 

[Blain]

This was what scientists believed before the expansion rate of the universe proved that a collapsing universe was impossible... meaning the universe had a clear and definite BEGINNING.

I think Hawking has been trying to say that the Higgs boson (God particle) has the potential to create "catastrophic vacuum decay" and basically destroy the universe... and he probably came up with this because there's no REAL way in physics to show that our expanding universe could ever collapse back on itself gravitationally.

* Our expanding universe (which measurably is unable to collapse back on itself gravitationally) defeats the old ideas of a steady-state universe which has ALWAYS EXISTED, or an expanding/collapsing universe which has ALWAYS EXISTED. This expanding universe we're in, which cannot collapse, tends to disprove any theories of an infinite universe or infinite matter, and thereby supports the story in Genesis. This is why Hawking wants there to be some way for the universe to destroy itself, or collapse on itself.

I'm not a physicist, but I think that is the basic, general ideal.



Anyway, Hawking has proven, numerous times, he's capable of 2 basic types of rubbish:

1. Making utterly absurd assertions that other physicists PUBLICLY SAY are nonsense.
2. Straying completely out of the realm of physics, and making non-scientific claims in the realm of philosophy, and stating these philosophical claims as absolute fact.

* Basically... the man has said a lot of stupid things, that people way smarter than me have called him on.

Well if we were to look at it in a scientific point of view it would make sense that the universe could eventually collapse in itself and the proof of this I think would be a black a hole it is literally all mass and gravity collapsing in itself at such an intensely high density that not light sound or anything else can escape it. if we see the black hole as the universe it would make sense.

I believe in the big bang I believe God spoke and existence became real but no matter how much scientists try to prove the big bang theory in their view they run into two problems. Firstly is that if they prove the universe had a true beginning that would mean that something caused that beginning and that something would have had to have vast intelligence in order for everything we see now to work as it does unless of course you believe this all happened by chance which has a vastly lower chance than an all knowing eternal being.

Second if they cannot find a beginning to the universe and it simply has always existed somehow their theory remains forever a theory it cannot ever be proven as fact because you have to trace back to the origins of the universe to prove it

 

[Stephen63]

I have a philophy..... if it's a man's idea & can't be proven, especially science, I don't believe it because:

1. It doesn't matter. I have enough 'real' things to think about.
2. It doesn't matter. Even if it's true, it doesn't affect anybody
3. It doesn't matter. Many scientists wanna be famous..... and get paid by the rich man's foundations that sponsor them.
4. It doesn't matter. If it doesn't have an effect on society.

Did I mention it doesn't matter?

 

[trofimus]

It is always a good practice to get some information before posting a straw man and then attack it. The more when regarding a science topic.

Or else we look silly.

 

[prove-all]

It is very simple, God spoke and it was.

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. …
By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and all the host of them
-by the breath of His mouth. … For He spoke, and it was done;
He commanded, and it stood fast” (Genesis 1:1; Psalm 33:6, 9;



that God “stretched out” or “spreads out” the heavens.
God “created the heavens, and stretched them out” (Isaiah 42:5).

“He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, (Job 26:7).

If you look up at the north pole there is nothing.


The phrase spreadeth out comes from the Hebrew natah,
which means to stretch or spread;it can mean to extend in every direction.
Scripture refers to the heavens in this way a total of 11 times, by the pen of
five different biblical writers: Job, David,Isaiah, Jeremiah and Zechariah.

Four verses (Isaiah 45:12; 48:13; Jeremiah 10:12; 51:15) use a form of
natah that literally means the action was completed some time ago.

Seven instances use a form of the verb natah that implies continual or ongoing
stretching (Job 9:8;Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 40:22; 42:5; 44:24;51:13; Zechariah 12:1).

Both of these aspects of this stretching can be seen in Isaiah 40:22,
which says that God “stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain,
and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.”

Stretches out comes from natah and implies something continuing today,
while spreadeth comes from the Hebrew mathach (this word’s only use in
the Old Testament)—meaning to stretch out and implying something that
God has already done and completed.

Job 9:8 tells us that “[God] alone spreadeth out the heavens.”

“Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
Let them praise the name of the Lord:for he commanded, and they were created.

He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names”
(Psalm 148:4-5; 147:4).

“By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God, so that what is
seen [physical matter] was made out of things which do not appear” (Hebrews 11:3, ).

“Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things,”
God says,“that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by
the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth” (Isaiah 40:26).



yes what is man ? that "God" be mindfull of him

 

[prove-all]

How can scientists never consider the possibility
that God created all of this?


“[T]heir eyes they have closed” (Matthew 13:15).
These scientists are studying God’s creation—and their eyes are closed!
They choose to exalt the creation above the magnificent Creator

Romans 1:19-20: “[T]hat which may be known of God is manifest
in them [people who disbelieve]; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world
are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.”

Never have we been so “without excuse” as we [people]are today


“When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers,
the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

 

[prove-all]

dark matter is another that most likely doesnt exist.

"What is dark matter? No one knows. We can register its
effects, but we cannot see it or measure it. He asked Job,

“Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness,
where is the place thereof, that thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof,
and that thou shouldest know thepaths to the house thereof?” (Job 38:19-20).

The Living Bible renders this,
“[T]ell me about the darkness. Where does it come from?
Can you find its boundaries, or go to its source?”

Romans 1:20 says “the invisible things of him from the creation of the
world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made ….”

The visible universe shows that there must be this invisible matter or force
holding it all together. We can see the invisible power of God by seeing the visible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter

Perhaps “dark matter” is actually the invisible power of God holding the
universe together. By the power of God “were all things created, that are
in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones,
or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all thing were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist” (Colossians 1:16-17).

“By him all things consist” or are held together. Hebrews 1:3 says
that Jesus Christ is “upholding the universe by his word of power” (rsv).
Upholding comes from a Greek word meaning to bear or carry.

God says in Psalm 75:3 that “When the earth totters, and all its inhabitants,
it is I who keep steady its pillars” (rsv). God holds together and sustains the
universe by His power.

 

[Grandpa]

If mass can neither be created nor destroyed, only altered in form....

Then how did it get here in the first place?

That is the question that science doesn't/can't answer and the question that Blain asks.


The big bang says there is all this stuff and it exploded etc... where did the stuff come from so it could explode???


How are we to have the faith required that our universe just always had stuff in it and it has just been randomly creating planets, solar systems, and life??? But then we can't take that one more step and say "God Created this". Or at the very least, God put it all into motion.

I suppose it is because the whole reason for trying to explain creation with science is to try to disprove the existence of God.

 

[Grandpa]

I have a philophy..... if it's a man's idea & can't be proven, especially science, I don't believe it because:

1. It doesn't matter. I have enough 'real' things to think about.
2. It doesn't matter. Even if it's true, it doesn't affect anybody
3. It doesn't matter. Many scientists wanna be famous..... and get paid by the rich man's foundations that sponsor them.
4. It doesn't matter. If it doesn't have an effect on society.

Did I mention it doesn't matter?

Have you ever talked to a college educated person who believes in the big bang and evolution?

They actually get mad when you bring their theories into question and tell them it is a theory that is not true.

Just like Christians get mad when atheists tell them God doesn't exist because of their scientific theories.


So this does have an effect on society. Just in a sneaky kind of way. It is a way for people to 'vote' no to God. They can say they don't believe in God and most of society won't think they are the biggest dummies ever. Because they are voting the same way. And its the Christians who are stirring up strife by reminding them that they are dummies.

 

[posthuman]

The "God Particle" is a misnomer. It has nothing whatsoever to do with God and was never intended to be taken as such. The Higgs Boson is a fundamental particle that provides the mechanism for the other fundamental particles (quarks, gluons, mesons, leptons, etc.) to have mass.

Yes, 'god particle' is a term that a non-physicist reporter came up with to try to make the science appealing and/or relatable to the general public.

There are reasons to suggest every field has a particle that transmits the field energy. Loosely speaking. It's one approach to trying to comprehend gravity - there may be something called a graviton..?

Properties of the Higgs field has something to do with other 'stuff' is expressed in the universe as mass or not. The Higgs Boson is a particle transmitter of 'mass' information, in a way.

But things don't 'not exist' just because they don't have mass. Calling it a 'god particle' is a really bad understanding of the physics. Moreover, the Higgs field itself doesn't pre-date the universe; it, and all fields, and all their particles, if they exist, we're created, possibly all at once in a big bang, and all were subject to inflation, as the scripture also says, He stretched out the heavens.


IMO it's basic lack of knowledge and understanding about these things, and a really poor choice of wording that's caught on, that make a lot of believers very ruffled about this stuff.

 

[notmyown]

but what's the mass of the Higgs Boson?

God only knows?