Milennium Literal or Figurative?
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Well, regarding the tribulation and the signs that Jesus said would take place leading up to His return to end the age, He said that they would take place in that last generation.
Regarding 2000 years being the tribulation, I would have a hard time with that one because it would one third of the entire time that mankind has been on the earth.
scripture as being 40, 70 and a 100 years, that last generation where those signs begin to take place, can be no longer than a 100 years. It will begin with the removal of the church and the revealing of that ruler, the antichrist when he establishes his seven year covenant with Israel.
Regarding 2000 years being the tribulation, I would have a hard time with that one because it would one third of the entire time that mankind has been on the earth.
scripture as being 40, 70 and a 100 years, that last generation where those signs begin to take place, can be no longer than a 100 years. It will begin with the removal of the church and the revealing of that ruler, the antichrist when he establishes his seven year covenant with Israel.
One of the identifying characteristics of the time frame of the tribulation is the amount of time Jerusalem is tread under foot of the gentiles. Jerusalem has been tread under foot of the gentiles for the last 2000 years. Does that not make you stop and think what does this mean.
With that info taken in consideration - Jerusalem trodden of the feet of Gentiles for 2000 years, how does 7 years of being trodden under foot come into play? 7 years mind you that's NOT MENTIONED anywhere in the bible unless someone twists the redemptive work of Jesus Christ in Daniel 9:27.
With that info taken in consideration - Jerusalem trodden of the feet of Gentiles for 2000 years, how does 7 years of being trodden under foot come into play? 7 years mind you that's NOT MENTIONED anywhere in the bible unless someone twists the redemptive work of Jesus Christ in Daniel 9:27.
According to the chronological order given, the events will take place as follows:
* Gathering of the church
* The revealing of the antichrist and the fulfillment of that last seven years
* Christ's return at the end of the seven years to end the age
* Millennial kingdom established
* Satan's last rebellion at the end of the thousand years
* Great white throne judgment
* New heaven, new earth, New Jerusalem
* Eternity ...............................................
* Gathering of the church
* The revealing of the antichrist and the fulfillment of that last seven years
* Christ's return at the end of the seven years to end the age
* Millennial kingdom established
* Satan's last rebellion at the end of the thousand years
* Great white throne judgment
* New heaven, new earth, New Jerusalem
* Eternity ...............................................
I think I agree with this theory but that could change after I learn more. ☺
The earth was created in six days according to the scripture. There are two places in scripture that say a day with the Lord is as athousand years. Scripture also says that there still remains a day of rest for God's people. Further, we have been told that God rested on the seventh day and likewise He promised a day of rest for His people. This rest will occur under the rule of Jesus when He returns and sets up the promised kingdom on earth for one thousand years. We are told six times in Revelation that this reign on earth will last a thousand years.
Don Koenig
The earth was created in six days according to the scripture. There are two places in scripture that say a day with the Lord is as athousand years. Scripture also says that there still remains a day of rest for God's people. Further, we have been told that God rested on the seventh day and likewise He promised a day of rest for His people. This rest will occur under the rule of Jesus when He returns and sets up the promised kingdom on earth for one thousand years. We are told six times in Revelation that this reign on earth will last a thousand years.
Don Koenig
You might want to rethink that chief. The thousand year reign is shown as a time + a season in Daniel---->>>
Daniel 7:9-14
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."
Compare to Revelation 19-20.....
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."
Revelation 20
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
After the season and time= or after a thousand years, the other nations that had their lives prolonged are once again deceived after this season and time is fulfilled, shown here...
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."
Daniel 7:9-14
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."
Compare to Revelation 19-20.....
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."
Revelation 20
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
After the season and time= or after a thousand years, the other nations that had their lives prolonged are once again deceived after this season and time is fulfilled, shown here...
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."
It clearly a parable set in a book full of them. Metaphors are used to convey a spiritul understanding hid from the lost.
Can't bind a literal spirit with a literal chain. No chain could hold a spirit. No such thing as a literal bottomless pit.Souls without a literal body cannot sit a literal throne. Souls without a body have no head to to literally cut off. and the word thousand there is used the same way it always is to represent an unknown. Because we are in the last days over two thousand literal years has passed. I cannot see one reason for thinking it is literal and not spiritual, not seen
2Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Can't bind a literal spirit with a literal chain. No chain could hold a spirit. No such thing as a literal bottomless pit.Souls without a literal body cannot sit a literal throne. Souls without a body have no head to to literally cut off. and the word thousand there is used the same way it always is to represent an unknown. Because we are in the last days over two thousand literal years has passed. I cannot see one reason for thinking it is literal and not spiritual, not seen
2Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
I believe the thousand year reign is literal because I can see no other conflict or contradiction in other parts of scripture to think otherwise. But concerning the 42 months, or time, times and half I believe this has to be symbolic because of the other scriptures prove it cannot be taken at face value.
Here is a post I made on why the 42 months have to be symbolic....
Here is a post I made on why the 42 months have to be symbolic....
Many believe the 42 months mentioned in Revelation should be taken literally, like a literal 3 and a half year tribulation period. But I believe the 42 months is a sign (symbolism) of time which should be spiritually discerned.
Let’s look at why this 42 months, or 1,260 days is not a literal 3 and half years, but is rather symbolic of time. In Revelation 12:5-6 we read “[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.” (1,260 days or 42 months)
Most would agree this verse is speaking about the birth of Jesus Christ, and his being caught up to God, and the woman being the sign of the spiritual Israel, because these are those who “ have the testimony of Jesus Christ” as seen in Rev. 12:17.
But no matter who you believe the woman represents, the timing of when she fled into the wilderness is shown to be right after the “man-child” Jesus was caught up to God and to His throne.”
This time is confirmed again here in Revelation 12:14 “And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, times, and half a time and, from the face of the serpent.” So now we have this same 1,260 days also shown as “time, times, and half a time” which is also mentioned in the book of Daniel 12:7.
This prophecy given to Daniel had to do with a “time of trouble such as the world has never seen” (Daniel 12:1) Which Jesus also mentioned in Matthew 24:21 concerning the great tribulation following right after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad. And this time period would run all the way to the redemption of Gods people as Daniel was also told in Daniel chapter 12… “at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book of Life.”
And then there is mention of the resurrection as mentioned here in Daniel 12:2 “[SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
Then this time is confirmed in Daniel 12:7 “[SUP]7 [/SUP]And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.”
So according to the word of the Lord, all those things mentioned to Daniel shall be finished in that same time period.
Now let’s look at how this time period is also shown as the same amount of time given to the fullness of the Gentiles.
Jesus spoke of “after the tribulation of those days” in accordance with the tribulation period of the Jews as it also relates the fullness of the Gentiles. (“that all things which are written may be fulfilled” Luke 21:22)
In Luke 21:24 Jesus says “ And they(Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
Now compare this above to the prophecy in Daniel, and notice the same prophecy above concerning the start point of the Jews tribulation period with the destruction of the Temple in 70 ad until the end is spoken of as "many days"
Daniel 11:31-33
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. (happened in 70 ad.)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
So how long was the times of the Gentiles Jesus mentioned above? Well, were given that time as well in scripture.
Revelation 11:2 “But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
This confirms the Gentile ingathering period, the tribulation of those days, and all those things being fulfilled as listed in the book of Daniel could not possibly be a literal 42 months, or 1,260 days, but rather it is a sign of time.
We also know by Paul’s words that this time of the Gentiles being fulfilled would be marked by ungodliness being removed from Jacob.
Romans 11:25 “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”
And finally one more confirmation that this 1,260 days is symbolic is found in Daniel 12:10-13 “Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (1,290 days)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.(1,335 days)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
We know by Jesus’ words, scripture, and history when the abomination of desolation was set up, and when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 ad. And so also by these verses above, and the numbers of days given to the end above, that the 42 months, or 1,260 days cannot possibly be a literal amount of time, but rather symbolic.
Be not deceived.
Let’s look at why this 42 months, or 1,260 days is not a literal 3 and half years, but is rather symbolic of time. In Revelation 12:5-6 we read “[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.” (1,260 days or 42 months)
Most would agree this verse is speaking about the birth of Jesus Christ, and his being caught up to God, and the woman being the sign of the spiritual Israel, because these are those who “ have the testimony of Jesus Christ” as seen in Rev. 12:17.
But no matter who you believe the woman represents, the timing of when she fled into the wilderness is shown to be right after the “man-child” Jesus was caught up to God and to His throne.”
This time is confirmed again here in Revelation 12:14 “And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, times, and half a time and, from the face of the serpent.” So now we have this same 1,260 days also shown as “time, times, and half a time” which is also mentioned in the book of Daniel 12:7.
This prophecy given to Daniel had to do with a “time of trouble such as the world has never seen” (Daniel 12:1) Which Jesus also mentioned in Matthew 24:21 concerning the great tribulation following right after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad. And this time period would run all the way to the redemption of Gods people as Daniel was also told in Daniel chapter 12… “at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book of Life.”
And then there is mention of the resurrection as mentioned here in Daniel 12:2 “[SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
Then this time is confirmed in Daniel 12:7 “[SUP]7 [/SUP]And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.”
So according to the word of the Lord, all those things mentioned to Daniel shall be finished in that same time period.
Now let’s look at how this time period is also shown as the same amount of time given to the fullness of the Gentiles.
Jesus spoke of “after the tribulation of those days” in accordance with the tribulation period of the Jews as it also relates the fullness of the Gentiles. (“that all things which are written may be fulfilled” Luke 21:22)
In Luke 21:24 Jesus says “ And they(Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
Now compare this above to the prophecy in Daniel, and notice the same prophecy above concerning the start point of the Jews tribulation period with the destruction of the Temple in 70 ad until the end is spoken of as "many days"
Daniel 11:31-33
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. (happened in 70 ad.)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
So how long was the times of the Gentiles Jesus mentioned above? Well, were given that time as well in scripture.
Revelation 11:2 “But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
This confirms the Gentile ingathering period, the tribulation of those days, and all those things being fulfilled as listed in the book of Daniel could not possibly be a literal 42 months, or 1,260 days, but rather it is a sign of time.
We also know by Paul’s words that this time of the Gentiles being fulfilled would be marked by ungodliness being removed from Jacob.
Romans 11:25 “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”
And finally one more confirmation that this 1,260 days is symbolic is found in Daniel 12:10-13 “Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (1,290 days)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.(1,335 days)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
We know by Jesus’ words, scripture, and history when the abomination of desolation was set up, and when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 ad. And so also by these verses above, and the numbers of days given to the end above, that the 42 months, or 1,260 days cannot possibly be a literal amount of time, but rather symbolic.
Be not deceived.
I don't need to rethink it, as I have read it many times. The 1260 days is consistent with a time, times and a half a time, both referring to that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. That last seven years specified in Dan.9:27, is referred to as 1260 days, 42 months and as a time, times and half a time. There is nothing in the scripture that would require applying a symbolic meaning to this time period of 3 1/2 years as you suggested in another post. These times mentioned are covering the two 3 1/2 year periods that make up that seven years. By the way Dan.7:25 also refers to that last 3 1/2 years as a time, times and half a time.
1260 = 1260 divided by 30 = 42 months (3 1/2 years)
42 Months = 3 1/2 years
Time = 1 year, Times = 2 years, half a time = half a year or six 30 day months (3 1/2 years)
No reason to symbolize, just take it at face value. The only reason that one would do away with the literal, is because they don't believe that the last seven years is still future. So of course those who believe this have to get rid of the literal because it proves that Revelation is referring to that last seven years.
|-------- 3 1/2 Years ---------- S E V E N Y E A R S ----- 3 1/2 Years ----------|
|---------------------------- Abomination Set up -----------------------------------|
|---- Two witnesses prophecy---------------|------------ Woman/Israel cared for ------|
|-----------------------------------------------|------- Beast makes war against Saints---|
|-----------------------------------------------|--------Gentiles trample the holy city -----|
It makes perfect sense if you just accept the numbers at face value
1260 = 1260 divided by 30 = 42 months (3 1/2 years)
42 Months = 3 1/2 years
Time = 1 year, Times = 2 years, half a time = half a year or six 30 day months (3 1/2 years)
No reason to symbolize, just take it at face value. The only reason that one would do away with the literal, is because they don't believe that the last seven years is still future. So of course those who believe this have to get rid of the literal because it proves that Revelation is referring to that last seven years.
|-------- 3 1/2 Years ---------- S E V E N Y E A R S ----- 3 1/2 Years ----------|
|---------------------------- Abomination Set up -----------------------------------|
|---- Two witnesses prophecy---------------|------------ Woman/Israel cared for ------|
|-----------------------------------------------|------- Beast makes war against Saints---|
|-----------------------------------------------|--------Gentiles trample the holy city -----|
It makes perfect sense if you just accept the numbers at face value
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When understanding/interpreting scripture, it's always about CONTEXT. Context gives the true meaning, even determining whether it's literal or symbolic.
Revelation 20:2-7 KJV
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Notice we have a literal devil, literal pit, literal thrones, literal souls, & finally, literal rewards.
It makes no sense to accept all these literal facts, & cherrypick the one item to be symbolic.
Revelation 20:2-7 KJV
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Notice we have a literal devil, literal pit, literal thrones, literal souls, & finally, literal rewards.
It makes no sense to accept all these literal facts, & cherrypick the one item to be symbolic.