What is a Lie

[mystic7]

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Proverbs 14:5 A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.
Were the following incidents considered lying before God? Were they justified for their cause? Confusing! Interested in your views, thankyou
Genesis 12:11-13 And it came to pass, when he was come near to enter into Egypt, that he said unto Sarai his wife, Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon: Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive. Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.
Joshua 2:1-6 And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of Shittim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there. And it was told the king of Jericho, saying, Behold, there came men in hither to night of the children of Israel to search out the country. And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country. And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were: And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out: whither the men went I wot not: pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them. But she had brought them up to the roof of the house, and hid them with the stalks of flax, which she had laid in order upon the roof.
1 Samuel 21:10-15 And David arose, and fled that day for fear of Saul, and went to Achish the king of Gath. And the servants of Achish said unto him, Is not this David the king of the land? did they not sing one to another of him in dances, saying, Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands? And David laid up these words in his heart, and was sore afraid of Achish the king of Gath. And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard. Then said Achish unto his servants, Lo, ye see the man is mad: wherefore then have ye brought him to me? Have I need of mad men, that ye have brought this fellow to play the mad man in my presence? shall this fellow come into my house?

 

[Tintin]

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Proverbs 14:5 A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.
Were the following incidents considered lying before God? Were they justified for their cause? Confusing! Interested in your views, thankyou
Genesis 12:11-13 And it came to pass, when he was come near to enter into Egypt, that he said unto Sarai his wife, Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon: Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive. Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.
Joshua 2:1-6 And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of Shittim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there. And it was told the king of Jericho, saying, Behold, there came men in hither to night of the children of Israel to search out the country. And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country. And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were: And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out: whither the men went I wot not: pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them. But she had brought them up to the roof of the house, and hid them with the stalks of flax, which she had laid in order upon the roof.
1 Samuel 21:10-15 And David arose, and fled that day for fear of Saul, and went to Achish the king of Gath. And the servants of Achish said unto him, Is not this David the king of the land? did they not sing one to another of him in dances, saying, Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands? And David laid up these words in his heart, and was sore afraid of Achish the king of Gath. And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard. Then said Achish unto his servants, Lo, ye see the man is mad: wherefore then have ye brought him to me? Have I need of mad men, that ye have brought this fellow to play the mad man in my presence? shall this fellow come into my house?

1) Yes
2) No
3) No

 

[Silverwings]

A lie is the exact opposite of the truth.

 

[Tintin]

1) Yes
2) No
3) No

1) Yes, because Abram should've trusted God and told the truth
2) No, because this is a similar scenario to the hiding Jews from the Nazi that went down in WW2
3) Actually, I'm going to change this one to Not Sure

 

[Galatea]

Yes, they are lies. Abram got in trouble with his lie, because Pharaoh was going to take Sarah to wife. God plagued Pharaoh's house, and Pharaoh got disgusted and basically said "Dude, why did you tell me she was your sister instead of your wife? GET OUT!" If Abram had told the truth, he could have stayed in Egypt longer during the famine.

Rahab was not a Jew, and not under the Mosaic law, she was lying- but did so to save someone's life. She was lying to people who would have killed God's men. She did not lie to save herself, make herself to be something different than she was, or to manipulate people. She simply believed God and wanted to save the spies' lives.

David pretended to be insane in order not to be killed.

The first was a lie for self aggrandizement, the two latter were lies to protect human life. But all were lies, because all three were not the complete truth. There was a thread not too long ago about lies. Many people questioned if God approved of lies told to protect human life- such as during the Nazi regime. Were people like the ten Booms sinning when they lied about rescuing Jews?

Exodus 1:15-22 "And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives...and he said "When ye do the office of the midwife to the Hebrew women...if it be a son, then ye shall kill him" But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded, but saved the men children alive. And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them "Why have you done this thing and saved the men children alive?" And the midwives said unto Pharaoh "the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come unto them." Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied and waxed very mighty. And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that He made them houses."

Lying is wrong, but when it is to save human life- it is an act of righteousness. Humans mean more to God than anything else. After all, He died for us.

 

[mystic7]

Yes, they are lies. Abram got in trouble with his lie, because Pharaoh was going to take Sarah to wife. God plagued Pharaoh's house, and Pharaoh got disgusted and basically said "Dude, why did you tell me she was your sister instead of your wife? GET OUT!" If Abram had told the truth, he could have stayed in Egypt longer during the famine.

Rahab was not a Jew, and not under the Mosaic law, she was lying- but did so to save someone's life. She was lying to people who would have killed God's men. She did not lie to save herself, make herself to be something different than she was, or to manipulate people. She simply believed God and wanted to save the spies' lives.

David pretended to be insane in order not to be killed.

The first was a lie for self aggrandizement, the two latter were lies to protect human life. But all were lies, because all three were not the complete truth. There was a thread not too long ago about lies. Many people questioned if God approved of lies told to protect human life- such as during the Nazi regime. Were people like the ten Booms sinning when they lied about rescuing Jews?

Exodus 1:15-22 "And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives...and he said "When ye do the office of the midwife to the Hebrew women...if it be a son, then ye shall kill him" But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded, but saved the men children alive. And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them "Why have you done this thing and saved the men children alive?" And the midwives said unto Pharaoh "the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come unto them." Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied and waxed very mighty. And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that He made them houses."

Lying is wrong, but when it is to save human life- it is an act of righteousness. Humans mean more to God than anything else. After all, He died for us.

Well explained thankyou

 

[Galatea]

Well explained thankyou

You are welcome.

 

[Blain]

You know people who lie for a good cause call it a white lie like how you lie to your kids about santa or lie to help a person out.

we can lie with pure intentions but some of the worst thing imaginable in history were done with pure intentions you never know how far that single lie will go even with good intentions. I can't imagine Jesus would have lied

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Those people belong to this world, so they speak from the world's viewpoint, and the world listens to them. But we belong to God, and those who know God listen to us. If they do not belong to God, they do not listen to us. That is how we know if someone has the Spirit of truth or the spirit of deception. 1 John 4:5-6

 

[PeterJens]

A lie is something that is not true.

The problem God has is not so much with lies but with liars.

A liar has only their own interests at heart, and truth or others mean
nothing to them.

So I can say I am 5ft 9 inches, but I am lying. I am between 8.5 and 9 inches
but approximately 9 inches.

I can be happy to receive a gift, yet the gift itself is not wanted.
Am I lying to say, thankyou, that is wonderful, appreciating the effort but not
the content. Would it be not lying to explain the difference, or would this in fact
create hurt, because the bigger truth is the social giving and receiving, which is
being honoured, and the content is less important.

So in lies and truth we have compromise. A middle way, which has a goal, but is
summarising something to be practical.

My kids say it is wrong in primary school to summarise the world as simple, solid,
definite. It is a lie. We should tell the truth. But then the truth is for them
at this age, with love and security provided, the world is simple, solid and definite.

Take morality. You shall not murder/kill.

But this is actually, you shall not take a life except in war or judgement.
And both war and judgement are national or group decisions.

So even morality is bounded by context and relationship. And if you analyse
further you can end up justifying almost anything, which is why terrorist groups
end up killing innocents, because they have removed innocense in their minds.

The answer for me is layered. It starts with the creator, God.
Truth works down from Him, and references His focus and definitions.

So a lie here denies something about the Lord and His creation.
So satan is the father of lies, and continually denies the work and reality of God.

 

[prove-all]

[1] no-Adam did not lie, claiming she is my sister- it was his sister also.

Genesis 20:12 (KJV)
And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father,
but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.


yes he did leave out about being also his wife.
but he did not say she is not my wife.


[2] yes- There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:
-But she had brought them up to the roof of the house

she spoke a lie-a false witness, but there also for a good reason.

[3] no- David changed his behaviour before them,
he never spoke a lie I believe here, he changed his apperance.

point: say if fasting, do you change your outward apperance
so people think you are not fasting? is this a lie

Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance:
for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast.
Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

maybe there was an deception to his outward apperance,
but God knew his actions [being scared] where from the heart.
Achish had judged him from the outward apperance.

And David laid up these words in his heart,

 

[JaumeJ]

For me a lie is purporting something that is not as though it were.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

The cake is a lie!

(---- Ok, now that the random is out of my system ----)

A lie is something that is not true, or something that is twisting the truth.
Even if it is done in good intent it is a lie.

Were the following incidents considered lying before God?

You can't really trick God can you? Though people have tried. So though you can lie to him, it is sort of... pointless
but sure, you can lie. Again, it is merely not stating the truth

Were they justified for their cause?

What does the surrounding scripture suggest?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Genesis 12:11-13 And it came to pass, when he was come near to enter into Egypt, that he said unto Sarai his wife, Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon: Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive. Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

Yes, Abraham was trying to save his own life, His thought was of himself not his wife. Also Abraham did not trust God, If he believed God would keep his promise he would have known he did not make this error in judgment. Because he or his wife was never in danger.

Joshua 2:1-6 And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of Shittim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there. And it was told the king of Jericho, saying, Behold, there came men in hither to night of the children of Israel to search out the country. And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country. And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were: And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out: whither the men went I wot not: pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them. But she had brought them up to the roof of the house, and hid them with the stalks of flax, which she had laid in order upon the roof.

Yes, a false truth, but no as a sin, for the following reasons.

1. It was not self focused She was loving the men she saved.
2. She did it because she feared God more than she feared those men (she knew if she was caught she would be killed) so again, She was NOT self focused.

1 Samuel 21:10-15 And David arose, and fled that day for fear of Saul, and went to Achish the king of Gath. And the servants of Achish said unto him, Is not this David the king of the land? did they not sing one to another of him in dances, saying, Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands? And David laid up these words in his heart, and was sore afraid of Achish the king of Gath. And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard. Then said Achish unto his servants, Lo, ye see the man is mad: wherefore then have ye brought him to me? Have I need of mad men, that ye have brought this fellow to play the mad man in my presence? shall this fellow come into my house?

Yes, Unless God told him to do this, He took his life in his own hands, Yes it may have worked, But not because he did this, but because God is gracious.

Again.. 1 He had self in mind, and 2, He did not trust God, if he trusted God who said he would be kind, he would never have had to "lie" foe he should never have feared saul, God had his back.

in all cases The thing which determined if it was a lie or not.

Was it for self (putting self above others), was it because of a lack in trust in God.

 

[Willie-T]

A lie is the exact opposite of the truth.

Is it? Have you never told anyone they looked nice when the opposite would have been the truth?

 

[Dino246]

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Proverbs 14:5 A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.
Were the following incidents considered lying before God? Were they justified for their cause? Confusing! Interested in your views, thankyou...

In my view, all three were lies. Abraham told a partial truth to save his skin, but he withheld key information. Rahab lied to save others and herself. David presented himself as insane when he wasn't. All three were sinful in their actions, though serving the greater good (preserving life) may make their actions justifiable in God's sight; I can't make that determination in His place. I would overlook the lie for the sake of life.

I am reminded of a scene from Corrie Ten Boom's The Hiding Place, in which a group of Jews were hiding in a cellar under the table. Corrie's sister was brutally honest, and would not lie. When German soldiers asked where the Jews were, she said, "Under the table". The soldiers moved aside the tablecloth and looked, and when they saw nobody directly under the table, they moved on in disgust. She told the truth, and God honoured it.

A lie is the exact opposite of the truth.

Having seen the nasty behaviour of people who cannot distinguish between lie, error, and ignorance, I am careful to do so. To me, a lie is a conscious misrepresentation of the truth, or a presentation of a known falsehood. An error is a simple mistake, as in a typo or oversight, as in "John 3:23 says that all have sinned..." when it is actually Romans. There is no intention to deceive or mislead. Ignorance is the error of one who has not learned something, as in the claim of a child or one who hasn't done his or her homework. There is mercy for the first, and grace for the other two.