God's Chosen People per Romans 11
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They're not warned against saying it. They are warned against boasting of it.
No one is boasting that I see. Just getting to the Truth of who Gods People are.
In fact I have never heard of anyone saying "haha, we are Gods People and you are not". Gods People typically want all people to be included. And the only real qualification is believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. Which some reject...
No one is boasting that I see. Just getting to the Truth of who Gods People are.
In fact I have never heard of anyone saying "haha, we are Gods People and you are not". Gods People typically want all people to be included. And the only real qualification is believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. Which some reject...
How do you deal with the end of the chapter, where we read about not boasting against the natural branches that were broken off, saying, "They were broken off, that I might be grafted in." Paul warns those who would make such a boast.
The blindness on 'natural Israel' is temporary. It is part of God's plan to bring mercy to others. This was predicted in Deuteronomy where God told Israel that He would provoke them to jealousy by them that are no people. Israel as a natural flesh-and-blood nation was to be provoked to jealousy.
As we read on in the passage, Paul says that "All Israel shall be saved...." Clearly, he is talking about the physical nation, because he says that they are enemies for your sakes, but beloved for the sakes' of the the fathers. There were Jews opposed to the Gospel, in some cases persecuting the church back then. How could 'enemies for your sakes' be some kind of spiritualized reference to the church?
Why would you think God had cast away His people-- the physical descendants of Israel-- when the passage predicts that the nation will be saved? (Btw, I do not believe this refers to every individual Jew that's ever lived, but rather to the nation coming to faith at some future point in time in an eschatological scenario.)
The blindness on 'natural Israel' is temporary. It is part of God's plan to bring mercy to others. This was predicted in Deuteronomy where God told Israel that He would provoke them to jealousy by them that are no people. Israel as a natural flesh-and-blood nation was to be provoked to jealousy.
As we read on in the passage, Paul says that "All Israel shall be saved...." Clearly, he is talking about the physical nation, because he says that they are enemies for your sakes, but beloved for the sakes' of the the fathers. There were Jews opposed to the Gospel, in some cases persecuting the church back then. How could 'enemies for your sakes' be some kind of spiritualized reference to the church?
Why would you think God had cast away His people-- the physical descendants of Israel-- when the passage predicts that the nation will be saved? (Btw, I do not believe this refers to every individual Jew that's ever lived, but rather to the nation coming to faith at some future point in time in an eschatological scenario.)
You are consumed with the FLESH of a nation..... Just read the sentence like it was meant to be read! He ask a question? "Hath"
God cast away His people". An figurative exclamation "God Forbid" meaning 'I hope Not'
The rest of the sentence simply tells who Paul really is. That is in his Fleshly Garment LOL
p.s. Romans 11:2 tells God did not cast his people away.
I think you are digging at anything that could maybe justify your beliefs.
If you will apply Hermeneutics the proper way, the Bible will have a whole different meaning than that of the Preterist (partial or full)
Oh, to answer your question..... NO, Nada, Nich, False,,,etc.
Paul is not saying that, he is asking a RHETORICAL QUESTION, then he says GOD FORBID. The Promise was made to Abraham, that was the Covenant, not the LAW, which came 430 years later. The original covenant was the coming of the Promised Seed (Jesus Christ).
Israel rejected God 500 years before Jesus came and thus God decreed a punishment of 70 Weeks unto them, then because they were blind by the LAW they couldn't even see their own Messiah when he came. God then called the Gentiles to take forth His Gospel unto all the world, when the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled, and the Church is Raptured, Israel will then be dealt with in a final 7 Year Period.
And All Israel OR The Nation of Israel turns back unto their God and accepts Jesus as their Messiah, Elijah is sent to turn them back to God before the Day of the Lord.
When Israel returns to God, they must BELIEVE in God again and in Jesus. The LAW will not be important, the BLOOD OF JESUS will be understood as what gives them their life.
Israel and the Church are two-different entities. BUT....They both must come to God via the blood of Jesus, in that way, they are one and he same.
Israel rejected God 500 years before Jesus came and thus God decreed a punishment of 70 Weeks unto them, then because they were blind by the LAW they couldn't even see their own Messiah when he came. God then called the Gentiles to take forth His Gospel unto all the world, when the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled, and the Church is Raptured, Israel will then be dealt with in a final 7 Year Period.
And All Israel OR The Nation of Israel turns back unto their God and accepts Jesus as their Messiah, Elijah is sent to turn them back to God before the Day of the Lord.
When Israel returns to God, they must BELIEVE in God again and in Jesus. The LAW will not be important, the BLOOD OF JESUS will be understood as what gives them their life.
Israel and the Church are two-different entities. BUT....They both must come to God via the blood of Jesus, in that way, they are one and he same.
God never cast away Israel though.
The Church was founded on the Jews
What Paul was asking was whether God had rejected the Jews (the disobedient element in Israel).
His reply was NO! The apostles were JUDEANS - JEWS AND BENJAMINITES
The early Church was massively Jewish.
Look, the Jews always were good and bad figs.
The good figs became the first believers in the Church, the bad figs were the people of God's Wrath.
Paul made it quite clear that however much God used the Jews to demonstrate his wrath, there was still a core set of jews who were believers (the remnant)
The Church was founded on the Jews
What Paul was asking was whether God had rejected the Jews (the disobedient element in Israel).
His reply was NO! The apostles were JUDEANS - JEWS AND BENJAMINITES
The early Church was massively Jewish.
Look, the Jews always were good and bad figs.
The good figs became the first believers in the Church, the bad figs were the people of God's Wrath.
Paul made it quite clear that however much God used the Jews to demonstrate his wrath, there was still a core set of jews who were believers (the remnant)
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
-here Paul says that his hope to come, is in the promises given to the twelve tribes.
6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord,
wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons,
which the Father hath put in his own power.
-here Jesus did not say he gave the kindom away to gentials,
but [when it would be restored] to Israel
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:
and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea,
and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
-Pentacost- one of Gods holy days, Jesus church started -not the kingdom.
the kingdom will be comming soon- Revelation 11:15 (KJV)
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Romans 11:1 "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
-here Paul says that his hope to come, is in the promises given to the twelve tribes.
6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord,
wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons,
which the Father hath put in his own power.
-here Jesus did not say he gave the kindom away to gentials,
but [when it would be restored] to Israel
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:
and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea,
and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
-Pentacost- one of Gods holy days, Jesus church started -not the kingdom.
the kingdom will be comming soon- Revelation 11:15 (KJV)
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Romans 11:1 "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid
Romans 9:6-7
[FONT="]6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
I suppose the ones trying to show you this already know. [/FONT]
[FONT="]6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
I suppose the ones trying to show you this already know. [/FONT]
How far off am I?* Lol
His chosen were the Israelites but they rebelled against God and he harden their hearts in order to save the rest of the world.
Isaiah 63:17
Why, Lord, do you make us wander from your ways and harden our hearts so we do not revere you? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes that are your inheritance.
God hardened some of Israel ( descendants of the patriarch Jacob), in the same way he did Pharaoh,* to achieve his purpose, which was to save a number of Gentiles.
Romans 9:27
Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved.
Romans 11:7
What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
*** eyes that could not see
*** and ears that could not hear,
to this very day."
Romans 11:25
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[ad] all Israel will be saved.
God grafted out some of Israel and grafted in Gentiles. The combination is now the True Israel.* (God's chosen)
If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either
*
I'm not sure if that means the Israelites that were harden will not be saved,* only the elect and the numbered Gentiles?
His chosen were the Israelites but they rebelled against God and he harden their hearts in order to save the rest of the world.
Isaiah 63:17
Why, Lord, do you make us wander from your ways and harden our hearts so we do not revere you? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes that are your inheritance.
God hardened some of Israel ( descendants of the patriarch Jacob), in the same way he did Pharaoh,* to achieve his purpose, which was to save a number of Gentiles.
Romans 9:27
Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved.
Romans 11:7
What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
*** eyes that could not see
*** and ears that could not hear,
to this very day."
Romans 11:25
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[ad] all Israel will be saved.
God grafted out some of Israel and grafted in Gentiles. The combination is now the True Israel.* (God's chosen)
If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either
*
I'm not sure if that means the Israelites that were harden will not be saved,* only the elect and the numbered Gentiles?
But verse 2b says God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Now, I don't want to derail the thread into God's foreknowledge and what all that entails, but it is clear that there is a focal point of believers being addressed here, and these are not solely those born a natural Jew. God has, in a sense, taken the kingdom away from the Jews, and given it to another ppl who will produce fruit.[Matthew 21:43]
The Jews during Jesus' ministry thought being born a natural Jew was the bee's knees. Even during Malachi's time, they corrupted God's altar with polluted bread, by offering the blind, lame, anything but their best. They kept the best and gave God the rest. This is why God turned from Israel, who became a barren fig tree[Matthew 21 & Mark 11].
The Jews during Jesus' ministry thought being born a natural Jew was the bee's knees. Even during Malachi's time, they corrupted God's altar with polluted bread, by offering the blind, lame, anything but their best. They kept the best and gave God the rest. This is why God turned from Israel, who became a barren fig tree[Matthew 21 & Mark 11].
Paul said--->>>Romans 11:1 "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. 
Paul understood that God's favor would return to Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which is after the tribulation of those days. (first to the Jew)
Jeremiah 31:33-37
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord."
Paul understood that God's favor would return to Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which is after the tribulation of those days. (first to the Jew)
Jeremiah 31:33-37
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord."
Israel is still Israel. The Church is the body of Christ, we received a Savior, Israel must receive their Messiah whose name Yeshua in Hebrew means Salvation. They will not accept him as their Messiah, until their blindness is lifted, after the Church is Raptured and before the Abomination of Desolation happens.
Good point.
Is the OP taking this to mean to mean that God cast away the people who were not foreknown, who were not predestined or whatever? That is not something Paul actually says. Paul starts off saying that God had not cast away his people. Then he deals with the remnant. Then he deals with the issue of the nation of Israel that was under spiritual blindness, for the most part, for a period of time. This nation, a nation which is distinct from the church, or at least those who do not believe are, will one day be saved. The Deliverer will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. It is clear from context that this reference to Jacob even including those who are considered 'enemies' at the time being for the sake of the Gospel. There were Jews who opposed the Gospel and persecuted the church.
So the first part of the chapter deals with the remnant. Toward the end, Paul deals with the issue of the nation as a whole, which, at that time, had rejected the Gospel, and the Deliverer would turn away ungodliness from Jacob and bring them to salvation.
Is the OP taking this to mean to mean that God cast away the people who were not foreknown, who were not predestined or whatever? That is not something Paul actually says. Paul starts off saying that God had not cast away his people. Then he deals with the remnant. Then he deals with the issue of the nation of Israel that was under spiritual blindness, for the most part, for a period of time. This nation, a nation which is distinct from the church, or at least those who do not believe are, will one day be saved. The Deliverer will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. It is clear from context that this reference to Jacob even including those who are considered 'enemies' at the time being for the sake of the Gospel. There were Jews who opposed the Gospel and persecuted the church.
So the first part of the chapter deals with the remnant. Toward the end, Paul deals with the issue of the nation as a whole, which, at that time, had rejected the Gospel, and the Deliverer would turn away ungodliness from Jacob and bring them to salvation.