Does the gift of prophecy include preaching?

[HEIsRiSen]

When I started the thread I didn't know what Greek word was used to refer to GIVING A SPEECH IN FRONT OF A CHURCH GROUP. I thought that PROPHESY could be used for that, but now I am more inclined to believe that the New Testament uses the word TEACH.

If the word TEACH (DIDÁSKEIN) really means TO DELIVER A SERMON then I'll have to admit that women can't preach (deliver a sermon), because Paul said that women are not allowed to teach.

Don't over-complicate things... if one had to be a learned man to become a follower of Christ nobody would be able to learn anything, let alone follow the truth.

Jesus is coming to the poor and meek in spirit this time around, coming for those who truly love Him.

 

[HEIsRiSen]

The gift of prophesy is nothing to a man and a man with that gift is still nothing.

 

[Marcelo]

Don't over-complicate things... if one had to be a learned man to become a follower of Christ nobody would be able to learn anything, let alone follow the truth.

Jesus is coming to the poor and meek in spirit this time around, coming for those who truly love Him.

This is a Bible DISCUSSION forum. I know Jesus came to the poor and meek, and we don't need to be Bible experts to be saved. However, there's a never ending discussion as to whether women can be pastors (or, at least, preachers) and it doesn't hurt to find the truth.

 

[Depleted]

Many teachers say that PREACHING IS NOT PROPHESYING.
What they say is unquestionable if we consider pastors who deliver microwave sermons, for example. But I don't think this is what God intends preachers to do; I think preachers are supposed to seek God's guidance in every way, specially with respect to the topic of the sermon. Only God knows the hearts of everyone and He knows what we need to hear.

If we preach according to God's guidance we are actually prophesying. I attend a rather fundamentalist church and they permit women to deliver the sermon when no male preacher has received any revelation from God on what to preach. If their policy is biblically right, this would mean that women can preach (prophesy = preach).

If prophecy meant preach, why are they two different words both in English and Greek?

 

[Depleted]

Just google and you will find many teachers saying so, but I'm not so sure about that. Why?

1. Paul said that prophecies build up the church (they help believers become more Christ like). Do you think that a prediction of the future or a revelation of unknown information can make us more Christ like? I don't think so - I think that Christian doctrine can make us more Christ like and Paul was using PROPHECY as synonym with PREACHING (Christian doctrine);

2. Paul said: "Let two or three prophesy and the others are to weigh what has been spoken". Can we cast judgement on a prediction of the future or on a revelation of unknown information? Again, I think Paul was talking about PREACHING DOCTRINE;

3. The New Testament uses the word KERYSSO (to preach, to announce as a herald) and the word seems to be used always in the context of announcing the Good News to unbelievers. When it comes to PREACHING DOCTRINE, I think that the verb PROPHESY is used.

If anyone can prove me wrong, I'll be thankful to them - I'm just looking for the truth. If by PROPHECY -- in I COR 14 -- Paul means PREACHING, then women can preach.

Prophecy --
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4394. prophéteia ►​

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[TD]Strong's Concordance

prophéteia: prophecy​

Original Word: προφητεία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: prophéteia
Phonetic Spelling: (prof-ay-ti'-ah)
Short Definition: prophecy
Definition: prophecy, prophesying; the gift of communicating and enforcing revealed truth.HELPS Word-studies
4394 prophēteía (from 4396 /prophḗtēs, "prophet," which is derived from 4253 /pró, "before" and 5346 /phēmí, "make clear, assert as a priority") – properly, what is clarified beforehand; prophecy which involves divinely-empowered forthtelling (asserting the mind of God) or foretelling (prediction).


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Preach -
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1256. dialegomai ►​

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[TD]Strong's Concordance

dialegomai: to discuss, to address, to preach​

Original Word: διαλέγομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dialegomai
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-al-eg'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I converse, address, preach, lecture
Definition: I converse, address, preach, lecture; I argue, reason.HELPS Word-studies
1256 dialégomai (from 1223 /diá, "through, from one side across to the other," which intensifies 3004 /légō, "speaking to a conclusion") – properly, "getting a conclusion across" by exchanging thoughts (logic) – "mingling thought with thought, to ponder (revolve in the mind)" (J. Thayer).
1256 /dialégomai ("getting a conclusion across") occurs 13 times in the NT, usually of believers exercising "dialectical reasoning." This is the process of giving and receiving information with someone to reach deeper understanding – a "going back-and-forth" of thoughts and ideas so people can better know the Lord (His word, will). Doing this is perhaps the most telling characteristic of the growing Christian!
[1256 (dialégomai) is the root of the English term, "dialogue."]


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[Depleted]

PREACHING DOCTRINE & PROPHESY have three distenct definitions. One without the need of the other; in my view

What are you trying to say; may i ask? -



Define the words you uses above in your own words, and then I will answer you
-

He's starting his very special post to prove women should be preachers through a backdoor method, and hoping either no one will catch on, or if they do, they'll just agree.

 

[Depleted]

In this sense all true Christians are prophets because they have this revelation from God.

Not really. Right now you're disproving your own theory. This ain't prophecy, nor revelation from God. This is pick-and-paste-to-prove-a-point.

 

[Marcelo]

If prophecy meant preach, why are they two different words both in English and Greek?

I didn't say PROPHECY means PREACHING - I was just suggesting that the verb TO PROPHESY may include PREACHING. A prophet is a SPOKESPERSON for God - they only speak what God tells them to speak, be it prediction of future events; revelation of unknown information; or a sermon. Most pastors prepare their sermons beforehand, but I have heard many preachers preach directly from the Holy Spirit, and this kind of preaching I call PROPHECY, because the preacher is acting as a mere spokesman for God.

When I started the thread I knew very little about this subject, but later on I learned about the three different Greek words that are often translated as PREACH: KERYSSO, KERYGMA and DIDÁSKEIN. It seems to me that DIDÁSKEIN (to teach) refers to PREACHING A SERMON in a church, but I'm not sure about it.

 

[oldethennew]

a living witness for Jesus is a 'preacher, a teacher, a walker in the Light' - it is their life in Christ...
it's His will, His way, and always His direction that we live and long and hope for...

 

[Depleted]

I didn't say PROPHECY means PREACHING - I was just suggesting that the verb TO PROPHESY may include PREACHING. A prophet is a SPOKESPERSON for God - they only speak what God tells them to speak, be it prediction of future events; revelation of unknown information; or a sermon. Most pastors prepare their sermons beforehand, but I have heard many preachers preach directly from the Holy Spirit, and this kind of preaching I call PROPHECY, because the preacher is acting as a mere spokesman for God.

When I started the thread I knew very little about this subject, but later on I learned about the three different Greek words that are often translated as PREACH: KERYSSO, KERYGMA and DIDÁSKEIN. It seems to me that DIDÁSKEIN (to teach) refers to PREACHING A SERMON in a church, but I'm not sure about it.

You did say it.

Many teachers say that PREACHING IS NOT PROPHESYING.
What they say is unquestionable if we consider pastors who deliver microwave sermons, for example. But I don't think this is what God intends preachers to do; I think preachers are supposed to seek God's guidance in every way, specially with respect to the topic of the sermon. Only God knows the hearts of everyone and He knows what we need to hear.

If we preach according to God's guidance we are actually prophesying. I attend a rather fundamentalist church and they permit women to deliver the sermon when no male preacher has received any revelation from God on what to preach. If their policy is biblically right, this would mean that women can preach (prophesy = preach).

And, if you didn't mean it, then ask, instead of preach.

 

[Marcelo]

You did say it.



And, if you didn't mean it, then ask, instead of preach.

Are you referring to the following portion of my post?

If we preach according to God's guidance we are actually prophesying.

Well, this was a response to your question: If prophecy meant preach, why are they two different words both in English and Greek?

I didn't say that TO PROPHESY means TO PREACH - I said that if we preach according to God's guidance we are actually prophesying, i.e., we are acting as God's spokesperson (God's spokesperson = prophet/prophetess).

 

[presidente]

Marcelo,If preaching sermons is prophesying, then the preacher should shut up when someone else gets a prophecy, because it says, "If a revelation cometh to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace."

Some of the Reformed folks want just about all (accurate) preaching to be prophesying, but if that is the case, then they aren't really following Paul's teachings for church order (or rather 'the commandments of the Lord' for church order.)

 

[MadebyHim]

What are the thoughts of others that prophesy is His-Story repeating itself? Kinda like the freed from egypt that walked around the promised land 40 years when they was only about 2 weeks away from the promised land. Has the promised land always been before us but our eyes have not seen? If His-Story repeats itself the walls will come tumbling down again.

 

[Marcelo]

Marcelo,If preaching sermons is prophesying, then the preacher should shut up when someone else gets a prophecy, because it says, "If a revelation cometh to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace."

Some of the Reformed folks want just about all (accurate) preaching to be prophesying, but if that is the case, then they aren't really following Paul's teachings for church order (or rather 'the commandments of the Lord' for church order.)

Good point! When someone preaches, they preach in front of the whole audience and no one will dare starting a parallel sermon before the previous preacher finishes speaking. But it is possible to have two or three prophets prophesying (giving revelations) simultaneously in different portions of the meeting room, and this is what Paul was without doubt referring to.

 

[Stephen63]

Does prophecy include preaching? Sometimes. We need to be aware that many of the gifts OVERLAP each other.

Some prophecies are given to individuals, while others are given to an entire people. When Jonah entered the center of the city of Ninevah, He prophesied, PROCLAIMING TO ALL THE PEOPLE. Such a proclaimation is preaching.

 

[presidente]

Good point! When someone preaches, they preach in front of the whole audience and no one will dare starting a parallel sermon before the previous preacher finishes speaking. But it is possible to have two or three prophets prophesying (giving revelations) simultaneously in different portions of the meeting room, and this is what Paul was without doubt referring to.

That was one of Wesley's ideas in his commentary, that Paul did not want them breaking into groups in the meeting for different discussions like the philosophers did. I don't know where he got his idea about the philosophers. But I don't see that it is clear that this is what Paul was addressing.In the passage, the prophets are speaking two or three. That could be an unspecified number of prophets speaking two or three propehtic messages, or two or three prophets speaking messages. While one is speaking, if another (which I take to refer to any individual rather than one of the prophets due to the next verse) receives a revelation, the speaking prophet is to be quiet and let the next person speak his revelation. This enables all to prophesy one by one. Our modern idea is 'don't interrupt the sermon.' Here, the prophet speaking yeilds if someone else gets a revelation. The Spirit continues the message through another. IMO, it is presumptuous for a 'preacher' to consider his preaching prophesying unless the Spirit is giving him those very words to say. Just getting a sermon topic in prayer beforehand and writing up sermon notes isn't enough to call it prophesying. And it is not a sin to teach through an assigned book of the Bible, rather than pray for topic. I go to a church that does that.

 

[Marcelo]

Look what I've found!

PHILLIPS VERSION OF THE NEW TESTAMENT
Available in www.biblegateway.com/versions/JB-Phillips-New-Testament/


1 COR 14:29

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Don’t have more than two or three preachers either, while the others think over what has been said. But should a message of truth come to one who is seated, then the original speaker should stop talking. For in this way you can all have opportunity to give a message, one after the other, and everyone will learn something and everyone will have his faith stimulated. The spirit of a true preacher is under that preacher’s control, for God is not a God of disorder but of harmony, as is plain in all the churches.

At least in J. B. Phillips' opinion, an Anglican clergyman, Paul is talking about PREACHING in the verses above.

 

[presidente]

Look what I've found!PHILLIPS VERSION OF THE NEW TESTAMENT Available in www.biblegateway.com/versions/JB-Phillips-New-Testament/1 COR 14:29

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Don’t have more than two or three preachers either, while the others think over what has been said. But should a message of truth come to one who is seated, then the original speaker should stop talking. For in this way you can all have opportunity to give a message, one after the other, and everyone will learn something and everyone will have his faith stimulated. The spirit of a true preacher is under that preacher’s control, for God is not a God of disorder but of harmony, as is plain in all the churches.At least in J. B. Phillips' opinion, an Anglican clergyman, Paul is talking about PREACHING in the verses above.

A lousy translation. So what? It is an opinion. If you want to convince people of your bad interpretation, just rewrite the text and call it an interpretation. It looks like he 'Messaged' his translation on this occasion.How many Anglicans actually ever followed the instructions the way Philip translated/interpreted it? Have you ever heard of a church that teaches that prophesying=pulpit preaching that actually applies the passage consistently with their interpretation?

 

[Marcelo]

A lousy translation. So what? It is an opinion. If you want to convince people of your bad interpretation, just rewrite the text and call it an interpretation.

Why are people so rude on social media? Any psychologist around here?

This is not MY interpretation - it's the interpretation of a Bible translator. Of course this is an "interpreted translation" and has its limitations. If J. B. Phillips rendered PROPHET as PREACHER he had a reason for that, and that's what people who desire to know the truth must investigate.

 

[Stephen63]

New American Standard Bible
Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment.

While the word is "prophet", and we have established that fact, This aids in proving the "prophesy, but not prophet" false doctrine that has been in the forums lately.

So, YES, the NT is full of prophets & so should the church be!