6000 years and the distance of Stars

[posthuman]

Have you not read the Bible (the Word of God). It tells you God made the Stars and He knows all of their Names. They are Angels!....

considering that the scripture gives names to such things as rocks ((Ebeneezer, anyone?)) it is not necessary to anthropomorphize a thing just because it has a name.

also, the word used in Psalm 147:4 for "stars" means "stars" every one of the 37 times it is used in the Bible. it's not used to describe angels. stars.

just because in John's vision he saw angels appearing as stars ((Revelation 12:4)) doesn't mean literal stars are literal angels, or that you can go back through the Bible and replace every mention of stars with angelic beings.

 

[Bladerunner]

considering that the scripture gives names to such things as rocks ((Ebeneezer, anyone?)) it is not necessary to anthropomorphize a thing just because it has a name.

also, the word used in Psalm 147:4 for "stars" means "stars" every one of the 37 times it is used in the Bible. it's not used to describe angels. stars.

just because in John's vision he saw angels appearing as stars ((Revelation 12:4)) doesn't mean literal stars are literal angels, or that you can go back through the Bible and replace every mention of stars with angelic beings.

Psalm 147:4 (KJV)

"He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names."

I guess you should disconsider God's Word as well....My,,,My you are in trouble.

 

[posthuman]

Psalm 147:4 (KJV)

"He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names."

yes, thank you, that verse. that's the one i was mentioning.

notice the word there is "stars"

-- "angels" is a different word.

 

[Rondonmon]

[/COLOR]


And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

As you can see, scripture states that the sun, moon and stars were created on the fourth day. Why would you even suggest that they were created on the first day? This theme of departure from scripture is familiar to me. Is this Gregg by any chance?

I Stated that the Sun and Earth was created on the 2nd Day and that is easy to see by reading Genesis chapter one. The first Stars (YOM To be hot) came on the first day at the 400 Million year mark, or 13.3 Billion years ago.

All you have to do is read Genesis 2 to understand the style of writing in those Days, they repeated the Creation story again, but with MAN at the center of the story, like wise the Sun was not created after the earth was created, they had to form at once from a nebulous of gasses, what you are suggesting is just not possible. The writer was only speaking of the way the Earths Seasons were SET, night and Day. God placed the moon in it proper place, to give us Night and Day Cycles.

Are you Greg ? By the way, that is like calling someone a fibber sir, it is not nice. I have no clue what you are speaking of. When we get to Heaven, many will see that the universe was created in 13.7 Billion years, not in Six Days. It is what it is, I do not deny others their right to understand as they see fit, I just express my opinion via much study.

 

[Rondonmon]

It's good that you don't believe in evolution. At least we agree on that!
Are you aware of the discovery of soft tissues inside the bones of a T-rex and of the experiments showing that fossil fuels can be produced quickly given the right conditions? Also, what is your view of the Flood? Was it worldwide? I only ask these questions because the more I learn on these subjects, the more I am convinced of a young earth.

Who knows if the flood was worldwide, probably was or else all sinners couldn't have been wiped out. I just do not get the Young Earth stuff because God like I said lives in all times, there is no time constraints on God, him doing something Billions of years ago is already done in His presence as soon as He commands it.

You see our only difference is this HOW LONG IS A DAY IN GENESIS !!! You get that ? That is our only difference in belief. So since Science matches my understanding of an old earth/universe, via the evidence, then we must assume God created everything over a much longer period of time.

I respect your opinion, we just differ a small degree.....your days are 24 hours, my longest day is 9.2 Billion years.

 

[dcontroversal]

Perception is reality.....there is not one person on this planet that can accurately state the age of the earth and or creation....The world that was before the FLOOD perished, everything has been changed and at the end of the day it is all surmising, guessing, supposition etc.....

Science says blah, blah, blah......yeah right!

 

[trofimus]

Perception is reality.....there is not one person on this planet that can accurately state the age of the earth and or creation....The world that was before the FLOOD perished, everything has been changed and at the end of the day it is all surmising, guessing, supposition etc.....

Science says blah, blah, blah......yeah right!

Well, luckily the world before the flood did not perish in the meaning nothing is left to see, but we have a huge amount of fossils, geological strata etc to study

The human world perished.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So since Science matches my understanding of an old earth/universe, via the evidence, then we must assume God created everything over a much longer period of time.

That is false thinking! God doesn't have to work within the constraints of science or how fast light travels. Your assumption is based on what science says and not about God with whom all things are possible. No one knows how old the universe is nor the earth. But scripture states that the earth was here before the sun, moon and stars, as they were all created on the fourth day. And the way that God did that was that He spoke all of them into existence. He didn't need billions of years to do it. You restrict God.

 

[dcontroversal]

Well, luckily the world before the flood did not perish in the meaning nothing is left to see, but we have a huge amount of fossils, geological strata etc to study

The human world perished.

Look the word up....The world that then WAS PERISHED........we cannot make accurate assessments concerning age...the entire geological, historical and shape of the earth changed..........at the end of the day....nothing but guesses!

 

[trofimus]

Look the word up....The world that then WAS PERISHED........we cannot make accurate assessments concerning age...the entire geological, historical and shape of the earth changed..........at the end of the day....nothing but guesses!

I am not sure why do you think that "the world that once was perished" means "the entire geological, historical and shape of the (planet) Earth changed".

You think that the word "world" means "planet"? They did not think in this modern way. World meant the place where people live, inhabited land.

 

[trofimus]

That is false thinking! God doesn't have to work within the constraints of science or how fast light travels. Your assumption is based on what science says and not about God with whom all things are possible. No one knows how old the universe is nor the earth. But scripture states that the earth was here before the sun, moon and stars, as they were all created on the fourth day. And the way that God did that was that He spoke all of them into existence. He didn't need billions of years to do it. You restrict God.

I do not think he restricts God.

He is searching the way God uses to create.

For example God could make us all immediatelly perfect beings with all the knowledge and take us to heaven. But not, he uses the long, painful process of our lifes to get us to the finish.

So we have God who likes to use processes and is in no haste.

 

[Ahwatukee]

He is searching the way God uses to create.

I know that, but he is restricting God's ability within the realm of science. How about God speaks things into existence? He controls atoms, molecules and the speed of light. I have no problem with God speaking things into existence within a literal 24 hour period. The evening and the morning of each day of creation was not millions of years in length.

There is not enough scriptural information to support his claims and therefore, he is arriving at his conclusion via science. And regarding science and those who promote evolution God says, "Professing themselves to be wise, they become fools."

 

[dcontroversal]

I am not sure why do you think that "the world that once was perished" means "the entire geological, historical and shape of the (planet) Earth changed".

You think that the word "world" means "planet"? They did not think in this modern way. World meant the place where people live, inhabited land.

Peter was clear....and states that the world we now enjoy will be renovated by FIRE....and this is compared to the world that PERISHED by WATER, then you have the DIVISION of the LAND mass during the days of PELEG (EARTHQUAKE)

WORLD--->Strong's 2889--->Kosmos-->by Implication the WORLD
THAT WAS--->PAST TENSE
PERISHED-->Strong's 622-->apollumi-->DESTROY FULLY, PERISH

 

[trofimus]

I know that, but he is restricting God's ability within the realm of science. How about God speaks things into existence? He controls atoms, molecules and the speed of light. I have no problem with God speaking things into existence within a literal 24 hour period. The evening and the morning of each day of creation was not millions of years in length.

If he did not say God could not make it in shorter time, he is not restricting God´s ability.

If God spoke things to existence, it would not last 24 hours, but few seconds. If you read the sentences God spoke, it is not anything that lasts 24 hours to say.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If he did not say God could not make it in shorter time, he is not restricting God´s ability.

If God spoke things to existence, it would not last 24 hours, but few seconds.

The point to this whole thing is that, he is trying to infer that the days of creation are millions of years in length in comparison to what we know as a day, and scripture does not support that teaching. The evening and the morning were the first day. To make a day represent millions of years, is to read into scripture what is not there.

 

[trofimus]

Peter was clear....and states that the world we now enjoy will be renovated by FIRE....and this is compared to the world that PERISHED by WATER, then you have the DIVISION of the LAND mass during the days of PELEG (EARTHQUAKE)

WORLD--->Strong's 2889--->Kosmos-->by Implication the WORLD
THAT WAS--->PAST TENSE
PERISHED-->Strong's 622-->apollumi-->DESTROY FULLY, PERISH

World is not "planet". Nor it is "Earth".

World is the place where people live

 

[trofimus]

The point to this whole thing is that, he is trying to infer that the days of creation are millions of years in length in comparison to what we know as a day, and scripture does not support that teaching. The evening and the morning were the first day. To make a day represent millions of years, is to read into scripture what is not there.

The hebrew word for "day" can mean various lenghts of time. Not just 24 hours.

If you believe God spoke things to the existence immediatelly, the 24 hours are also too long.

 

[dcontroversal]

World is not "planet". Nor it is "Earth".

World is the place where people live

You would argue with God that the sky is blue.......the world KOSMOS states it all pal.......!

 

[trofimus]

You would argue with God that the sky is blue.......the world KOSMOS states it all pal.......!

Kosmos means "world", you accepted it yourself.

It does not mean planet Earth etc. Just look how it is used in the Bible on other places.

So yes, sometimes the sky is red or even black

 

[Rondonmon]

I know that, but he is restricting God's ability within the realm of science. How about God speaks things into existence? He controls atoms, molecules and the speed of light. I have no problem with God speaking things into existence within a literal 24 hour period. The evening and the morning of each day of creation was not millions of years in length.

There is not enough scriptural information to support his claims and therefore, he is arriving at his conclusion via science. And regarding science and those who promote evolution God says, "Professing themselves to be wise, they become fools."

You have the wrong ideas about science, and I understand Scientists have an agenda, at least some of them, but TRUE SCIENCE....Is only a journey from the unknown to the the KNOWN BY GOD. I am not restricting Gods ability to create the Universe in 6 Days IF he wanted to, I issued a logical challenge to all, tell me why a God that is not bound by TIME RESTRAINTS (Lives in the the past, presence and future all at once) would have to change the Laws of Nature in order to SPEED UP the Creation process ? WHY ? No one can answer that logically because it is not logical. God commanded the Creation, was watching the Creation as it was being created and living in the finished Creation all at the same time.

You keep suggesting I am supporting "Evolution" when I could say the same about you, but neither claim would be true. You say God created everything in 24 Hour Periods, I say God created everything in Periods of Time that are much longer. 24 Hours is a Period of time also.

You do now how Microwave Radar works right ? It is not showing us things that are not there, but rather things that are there, we can see it all. The problem with most Christians thoughts on these things is, they are either all in on the Six Day Creation or all-in on the fact the Evolution was used by God. The Holy Word says God "Created" so in my mind, God CREATED EVERYTHING over a much longer period of time, one that matches up with the EVIDENCE WE SEE.

I don't believe life started from some Primordial Soup, that is Evolution, as a matter of fact I did a write up that shows life forming on earth per chance would be a 25 Trillion to One shot, because building a protein with 150 amino acids is not as easy at it seems, each amino acid has to be "left handed" not right handed (nickname they are called) and all life comes from LEFT HANDED AMINO ACIDS so the link must be 150 left handed ones, that's like flipping a coin and landing on heads 150 times in a row !! But wait, we still have to bond them together with peptide bonds, however not all bonds are peptide, 50 percent are non peptide, so we have to get 149 Bonds correct also, both of these chances are 1 chance in 10^ of 150 or 1 in 10 to the Power of 150.

BUT WAIT....Amino acids are like a 20-character chemical alphabet. Each amino acid must be in a specific order, or we don’t get an amino acid sequence that folds into a functional protein. So, the specific order of the individual amino acids matters. Taking these three problems together, we can calculate the probability of building our very modest functional protein to be 1 in 10^164. Remember, this is only one protein, and life requires hundreds of proteins.

What is 1 in 10 to the Power of 164 ?

NOW CHECK THIS OUT 10^37 is the degree of fine tuning it took to create the Universe..........One part in 10 to ^37 is such an incredibly sensitive balance that it is hard to visualize. The following analogy might help: Cover the entire North American continent in dimes all the way up to the moon, a height of about 239,000 miles (In comparison, the money to pay for the U.S. federal government debt would cover one square mile less than two feet deep with dimes.). Next, pile dimes from here to the moon on a billion other continents the same size as North America. Paint one dime red and mix it into the billions of piles of dimes. Blindfold a friend and ask him to pick out one dime. The odds that he will pick the red dime are one in 10 to ^37.

The odds of life forming on its on per chance is Laughable, on top of that the Universe forming on its on is also be a 13 Trillion to one shot, place those odds together, and it is not a possibility we got here per chance. We were CREATED by God.