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Thread: Not By Works

  1. #2001
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirk View Post
    Does almond milk count?!
    I hear that is pretty good HAHAHHA

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    James was the one who said that.....and there is no confusion....

    Before God Paul said a man is justified by faith void of works
    Before MEN James said our faith is seen (justified)by our works

    Before GOD<---FAITH
    BEFORE MEN<--WORKS

    Not difficult at all.....rather simple at the end of the day.....
    .

    Hi dcontroversial,

    Yes, James did say that. My apologies. But, yes, there is great confusion. Tell me, who is greater: A man who lived a vile life, yet, was baptized a Christian, and said his prayers, read his bible, but would seek the world at the cost of other people's lives. He would make many widows and orphans in the name of money disguised as a cause of righteousness and industry. He would attend church every Sabbath, but would liquor up and hit his wife afterwards.
    Or
    A man who never knew Christ or his teachings, but, lived an honest life, gave to the poor, love his family with all his heart, did his best to be an upstanding citizen in the part of the world where he lived.

    No matter what a person says how much they believe in Christ, if they do not do his will, they are not of Christs'. The person who never knew God, yet does His will, knows God better than the hypocritical Christian.

    Being Christian does not put us on a pedestal. What it does it gives us the responsibility and knowledge of what a Christian should be. We are held at a higher standard because we know. If we knew, but did not, we have no faith, our faith being dead. The person who lived a Christian life without knowing God or Christ, is a Christian, because he follows God, because God is good, and God is love. He that hath love in his heart for his fellow brothers, has love for God, for God loveth all his children.

    It is simple. You follow God's commandments, you are saved by grace. If you reject God's commandments, you have no faith, and will not be saved, rather, you will suffer more because you knew what you had and you threw it away, like the miser who kept his talent buried.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Yeah....go read where he said the JESUS will reference him by his CC name and judge us according to this teaching and where he claims to be a prophet ..........

    Good luck.....you ever hear of a guy called Sun Myung Moon<----He has followers as well......
    In Matthew 7:15, Jesus said to beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. In Acts 20:28, we read - Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

    Sadly, it's not uncommon to find false prophets who are wolves in sheep's clothing on Christian forums who may even claim that they audibly hear from God.

    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by kstout6 View Post
    .

    Hi dcontroversial,

    Yes, James did say that. My apologies. But, yes, there is great confusion. Tell me, who is greater: A man who lived a vile life, yet, was baptized a Christian, and said his prayers, read his bible, but would seek the world at the cost of other people's lives. He would make many widows and orphans in the name of money disguised as a cause of righteousness and industry. He would attend church every Sabbath, but would liquor up and hit his wife afterwards.
    Or
    A man who never knew Christ or his teachings, but, lived an honest life, gave to the poor, love his family with all his heart, did his best to be an upstanding citizen in the part of the world where he lived.

    No matter what a person says how much they believe in Christ, if they do not do his will, they are not of Christs'. The person who never knew God, yet does His will, knows God better than the hypocritical Christian.

    Being Christian does not put us on a pedestal. What it does it gives us the responsibility and knowledge of what a Christian should be. We are held at a higher standard because we know. If we knew, but did not, we have no faith, our faith being dead. The person who lived a Christian life without knowing God or Christ, is a Christian, because he follows God, because God is good, and God is love. He that hath love in his heart for his fellow brothers, has love for God, for God loveth all his children.

    It is simple. You follow God's commandments, you are saved by grace. If you reject God's commandments, you have no faith, and will not be saved, rather, you will suffer more because you knew what you had and you threw it away, like the miser who kept his talent buried.
    No...actually you have it backwards.......

    because one is saved by grace they can now live according to the word...the word is SPIRITUAL and the NATURAL man cannot know, discern, judge or apply the word because it is foolishness unto them..

    WORKS and FRUIT are the result of BIRTH and SALVATION.....

    So tell me....

    Does an apple grow from nothing or from a tree that is already sprouted and then had a period of growth and maturity?

    And who did JESUS say had the greatest faith, who was he impressed with? I will give you a few clues....

    Lord, I a not worthy that you should come under my roof, just say the word and my servant shall be healed.

    Yea Lord, Even the dogs lick from the crumbs that fall from the master's table

    Be merciful unto me a sinner

    FAITH alone saves, justifies, seals and sanctifies in Christ positionally before GOD

    before men.....our inward faith is seen by our works.....

    Works are the result of faith and salvation one already possesses.......

    A MAN can bear NO fruit unless they are already IN THE VINE...........
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by kstout6 View Post
    I think that there is a lot of confusion on faith and works means. Let me elaborate:
    At the beginning of this thread, it was stated faith, not works grants salvation. Paul also stated:

    Faith without works is DEAD..
    James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

    Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all (faith without works is dead/empty profession of faith/dead faith) demonstrates there is no root. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.
    dcontroversal likes this.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

    Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all (faith without works is dead/empty profession of faith/dead faith) demonstrates there is no root. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.
    AMEN to this....and even Jesus said that a cup of cold water in his name would not go unrewarded........and even 1 (one) apple proves it is an apple tree.....and to take it even further.....an apple tree sprouts from seed and grows numerous years before it even produces, a white oak some 20 years before it produces and then only every other year....
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    No this is wrong,

    Teaching WORKS misleads. Because it states one can make it to heaven on his own merit, and works and grace are not something you can mix.
    exactly....the bible is clear.....works do not save and or keep saved.....

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

    Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all (faith without works is dead/empty profession of faith/dead faith) demonstrates there is no root. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.
    Faith (Christ’s, the faith of God ) is the work of salvation not of our own selves

    Faith is the works of God that he performs in us as he works in the heart of man, Therefore man can believe Him, not seen as he again works in us to both will and do the good pleasure of Him .(imputed righteousness) not of our selves lest an man boast in vain.

    We are saved by a work of faith..... just not that of our own selves. It’s not faith verses works, as if they could appose each other.(impossible) If we would have the faith of (coming from) Christ's works in respect to ourselves or any man we would be blaspheme the Holy name by which we are called .

    Faith as a work sets up the context for chapter two of James. Faith is the work of God working in us to both will and do His good pleasure (a imputed righteousness, not of Abraham or the other example(Rehab) in that same chapter

    Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of (coming from) our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory,(the Holy Spirit of God) with respect of persons.

    Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?


    Blasphemy is to accredit the work of God's faith, o sinful man .Again we are saved by works ...Christ's works, they are of God in accordance with the faith of God's Holy Spirit.

    No man could serve two Masters, as Lord.(impossible) Ether we are self serving or we serve Christ. No limbo in between.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    In Matthew 7:15, Jesus said to beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. In Acts 20:28, we read - Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

    Sadly, it's not uncommon to find false prophets who are wolves in sheep's clothing on Christian forums who may even claim that they audibly hear from God.

    A wolf plays the double trick of pointing at innocent faithful believers and calls them evil.
    They then stir up trouble and talk about repentance from obedience and just accepting Jesus
    does everything, so how dare you add to Christs work.

    This is the destruction of the enemy to cause good people to turn on each other about nothing
    issue vile accusations and judgements based on nothing.

    Worse still to repent of real sin and harm, to feel bad about it, to resolve and truly get right
    with God is deemed wrong teaching. This is the teaching of destructive people.

    And why are they addicted to this wherever they go, because to them people are not growing
    in the spirit, they are bound to legalism and death.

    But think about this. Did Jesus talk about his blood and body before the cross or after, yet
    it is a central celebration of the new covenant? Now if you take this teaching as part of
    your theology, you need to take it all including the sermon on the mount, a key part of the
    new covenant life style commanded to be followed.

    What these guys are really saying is they do not have victory in their hearts, Christ and love
    on their throne so are lost, literally when they read Christs encouragements. As one contributor
    put it, the feel sick and dead inside. So if Christs words creates this response in them how can
    they claim to be of Christ at all? There own hearts testify against this.

    So who are the obvious wolves here stirring up both condemnation and confusion?
    And the core message is brothers and sisters, we do not know the Lord, but they do, and we
    should become like them. This is the time to know who is our Lord and whose words we follow
    unto life.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    exactly....the bible is clear.....works do not save and or keep saved.....

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US
    These are blind guides. We teach salvation by faith and walking as a result in obedience.

    They claim superficially they believe the same yet everyone who talks about the gifts of the
    Spirit being exercised in their life as lies.

    If you do not have a deep sin problem, then you are not part of being honest and the group.
    So they identify themselves not by righteousness or faith, but by sin and failure.

    Now let us be honest. The people of God are identified as a light on hill, as salt of the earth,
    as truly good, respectable, people who follow the Lord. As Paul said, let there not be even a
    hint of impurity in your lives.

    Yet this group identify themselves with the exact opposite as if sin is somehow a badge
    of honour and not shame. We have been sinners, but now are transformed into Christs likeness
    walking in love and victory. We are sad and devastated about our pasts, and so walk in the light
    of the gospel and the Holy Spirit driven on by love.

    But as one contributor said, they do not believe these words and think we are lying.
    Or another said, you are boasting in "your" achievements, but this is foolishness.
    We are boasting alone at the work Christ has done in our lives and His power unto salvation.

    In truth we are being called hypocrites and liars, no better than the world. But this is just
    pure unbelief both in our testimony and in the gospel to save their souls and bring the life
    of the Spirit into their hearts.

    It 100% says nothing about us, rather about their experience and failure in their faith and
    walk, of which I have no knowledge. I can only testify to what I know and the friends and
    sincere loving people I know, and truly they are redeemed loving people dedicated to love
    and share with others with open hearts. Amen
    Last edited by PeterJens; March 19th, 2017 at 11:24 AM.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    I hear that is pretty good HAHAHHA
    its really nice i make it fresh,,, but ya dont want to drink to much cause it comes out the other end a bit to quick... just like your bad doctrins......

    Your doctrins are so bad that if i digested them to much like almond milk i would be spewing bittnerness out the rear end which i was beginning to,,,(that is resenting the truth of God. im just so glad someone showed me the light...... God only knowS what i would be like by now if he hadnt.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBO43 View Post
    its really nice i make it fresh,,,
    Dc has got to you.
    What you are saying in essence could well be true, but once the emotional meaning
    becomes stronger than the content, and you respond, it makes you look like the
    guilty party.

    It is the issue Jesus talked about turning the other cheek. The evil man will always
    provoke and rile people up, create the biggest anger and rumpous they can without
    it being obvious to others and apparently innocently walk away.

    You only harm yourself if you fall for it.
    Sin always plays out and these hard hearted people destroy themselves and the
    groups they belong to. It is like walking into a tornado, you just take cover,
    because nothing you do can stop it. It is always tempting because we always
    want to believe people are open and sincere in their goals, when actually they
    are only manipulating things for their own ends.

    So know your wolf when you meet him.
    God bless
    Peter
    Stunnedbygrace likes this.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    The sign that believers are under the influence of a wolf's teachings is one that teaches us to live righteously apart from the life of Christ manifesting in our lives. We are trying to create and maintain our own self-righteousness/holiness by what we do or don't do.

    We are trying to be like God without God doing the work in us by grace through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection. This is the same thing that happened in the garden and the enemy is saying the same thing to us now.

    Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.

    Instead they come
    as "ministers of righteousness".

    They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation and living while on this earth.

    This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

    2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
    14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

    This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers in our midst. He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.

    1 Peter 1:13
    13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Dc has got to you.
    What you are saying in essence could well be true, but once the emotional meaning
    becomes stronger than the content, and you respond, it makes you look like the
    guilty party.

    It is the issue Jesus talked about turning the other cheek. The evil man will always
    provoke and rile people up, create the biggest anger and rumpous they can without
    it being obvious to others and apparently innocently walk away.

    You only harm yourself if you fall for it.
    Sin always plays out and these hard hearted people destroy themselves and the
    groups they belong to. It is like walking into a tornado, you just take cover,
    because nothing you do can stop it. It is always tempting because we always
    want to believe people are open and sincere in their goals, when actually they
    are only manipulating things for their own ends.

    So know your wolf when you meet him.
    God bless
    Peter
    No he hasnt got to me lol... maybe he got to me in a moment,, but i like dc he makes me laugh but your right he does get to me from time to time as do you.

    Now with that said i think we must look at why people believe Good works is essential to salvation...?

    Now for me believeing Good works is essential to salvation.is because i fear the lord.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post

    You only harm yourself if you fall for it.
    Sin always plays out and these hard hearted people destroy themselves and the
    groups they belong to. It is like walking into a tornado, you just take cover,
    because nothing you do can stop it. It is always tempting because we always
    want to believe people are open and sincere in their goals, when actually they
    are only manipulating things for their own ends.

    So know your wolf when you meet him.
    God bless
    Peter
    I know when to walk away pete pans ,,,, you dont.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Yeah....go read where he said the JESUS will reference him by his CC name and judge us according to this teaching and where he claims to be a prophet ..........

    Good luck.....you ever hear of a guy called Sun Myung Moon<----He has followers as well......
    Well who ever has God is a prophet in my book... Because all a prophet is really is someone whom God has spoken too...

    Now since God has decided to be with us all now then i guess you could say where all prophrts..

    Maybe you need start encouraging more rather than condemming,,, you really are beating theese sparrows up to much..

    But ya know what ,,, david killed a giant,,, so i would be carful cause that little giant could well be deciple dave...

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    I often hear works-salvationists attempt to "dissect" works of obedience/good works from the moral aspect of the law and erroneously teach that we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. It's still salvation by works no matter how hard they try to sugar coat it.
    I often hear words that put badness into good..

    There not that hard to spot its called disernment and a life time of being arround people who where possessed... theres still hope for you if you hope for the final reward.. (a token of appreciation from God)....

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    HAHAHHAHAHHHAHHAHHA this is rich coming from you......
    Accually your right i was a meat head befor the milk head.....lol

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Now ive just a bit of enlightenement lol,,,, isnt it funny what the power of prayer does...I see a good spirit im not sure who it is but theres someone here who has a Good spirit..

    And my question is to see if that person is for real..

    Now the question of hope in a diffrent context..

    Would any of you consider hope for your faith to be justfied.. (Question again would anyone hope that when your faith is justified would any of you hope for your faith to be justifed By God..

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    I think i need to ask again has anyone had there faith justified yet ?......

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