Not By Works

[LoveGodForever]

Who is actually doing the holding?...

One who professes to be a christian, but then ends up completely rejecting God, just proves that their salvation was not real to begin with. The reason he is able to "let go" of the things of God is because he himself is the one doing the holding (since he's not saved). He doesn't belong to God, therefore God's power cannot keep him. This is the difference between the wheat and the tares.

As 1 John says (I know this one has been posted to death, so we all know it by now ), it's clear that many will come out from among us, because they were not of us, otherwise they would've stayed with us. So their leaving makes clear they are not of us.

I'm not talking of backsliding christians though, who have drifted off for a time. I was one of them, but I still remained His child. Others could even see that I was. Believers do return. In my case, I was so young when I was saved, and just didn't grow at all. Being so young I got distracted with the things of the world, but He gave me that freedom to drift off. Most likely it was a life lesson. But then He called me back in 2011 in a powerful way (blog post coming soon). So in my case He was the one that chose the timing, not me, and I believe it was all according to His will, the plans He had for me. Then satan got angry and tried to kill me just days later, and was unsuccessful because of God's protection

Hi Katy,

It is possible to be following God one day and not following Him the next day if you choose to yield to temptation and choose a life of sin. While you are choosing a life of sin, you have fallen away from the faith and chosen to leave God until you repent and turn back to God. I am glad you are back with God now.

God bless

 

[Katy-follower]

On the subject of apostates. Many claim that these are true believers that lose their salvation. This might be how the world defines it, but the biblical definition is more accurate. The book of Jude confirms in V19 that these are men who don't have the Spirit, so they're not believers.

Jude...

"Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ: Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.


Old and New Apostates

But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.


These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”


These (apostates) are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. But you, beloved (believers), remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts.These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.


But you, beloved (believers), building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, to God our Savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen.

 

[LoveGodForever]

On the subject of apostates. Many claim that these are true believers that lose their salvation. This might be how the world defines it, but the biblical definition is more accurate. The book of Jude confirms in V19 that these are men who don't have the Spirit, so they're not believers.

Jude...

"Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ: Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.


Old and New Apostates

But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.


These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”


These (apostates) are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. But you, beloved (believers), remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts.These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.


But you, beloved (believers), building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, to God our Savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen.

Hi Katy

Is the above your own work? Or did you pull this from some other online website? Just asking.

Either way what you have presented is not biblical at all unless I am reading you incorrectly always a possibility when tired at the end of a day

If your referring to "Apostates" as being the false teachers and prophets, sheep and wolves clothing etc then I believe much of what you are saying above is correct. Jesus tells us that in the last days there will be every wind of doctrine so that if it were possible these false teachers will deceive if possible God's very elect. (Eph 4:14; Matt 24:24; Matt 7:15; Acts 20:29; 2Thess 2:10-12 etc) So the ones that were not from us and never "Believed" in the first place were the false teachers that did not know the Word of God because they were spreading false teachings.

On the other side this does not apply to someone that has believed the truth of God's Word and has chosen to disregard the Word of God instead choosing to live a life of wilful sin.

Heb 10:26,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

1Jo 2:3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4,
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Hope this helps

God bless

 

[Katy-follower]

Hi Katy,

It is possible to be following God one day and not following Him the next day if you choose to yield to temptation and choose a life of sin. While you are choosing a life of sin, you have fallen away from the faith and chosen to leave God until you repent and turn back to God. I am glad you are back with God now.

God bless

Sorry, but a child never stops being a child, whether by flesh birth or spiritual birth. Since you can't climb back in the womb and be unborn physically, so too you can't be unborn spiritually either.

We will not be perfect until we get that glorified body at the end. In the meantime, believers will occasionally slip up, whether through pride, anger, or any wrongful thought. Believers can be tempted. But then a distinction needs to be made between this and the continuation of a lifestyle engaged in as the unrighteous old man, before one became a new creature in Christ.

A thief who gets saved will no longer continue a life of stealing. Homosexuals who get saved will no longer continue a homosexual lifestyle, for example. The scriptures say that these lifestyles (I gave just 2 examples) are committed by the unrighteous (non believers) (v9). 1 Cor 6: "...And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God"

The pastor of my childhood church gave in to a temptation, by sleeping with a woman in the congregation, and he got her pregnant. While it was still a sin, he didn't have an ongoing affair with her. He gave in to a temptation (still bad though). A non believer would have an ongoing affair with no conviction at all. Not long afterwards he got testicular cancer. Would not like to confirm it was related, but I think God punished him for that sin. Who knows whether he lost that part of himself as a result of the cancer too. It also almost ruined his family. He stepped down as pastor and backslid as a christian, struggling to let go of what he had done. I believe that God does go to those lengths of inflicting His children with either illness or death, as part of His chastising. I actually wrote about a whole load of things going on in my childhood church and how God dealt with the mess.

When I backslid, I was a baby christian and continued to be one, never growing. I suffered many situations as a result of sin in this world, and things would've been a bit easier for me if I weren't backsliding. Though I was spared some situations, which I believe God used to bring me back. But the point is that God doesn't lose any that belong to Him. He brings us back. You say that I turned back to God, but it was God that was drawing me back.

I'll also say that while I was backsliding I never lost any belief in God, I knew I was still a christian, but I just was a baby christian that didn't have that opportunity to grow when I was first saved. Still, others would ask me if I were a christian, because they could see by my nature that I was their spiritual sister. They just knew... and they were right. The Holy Spirit never left me.

 

[Katy-follower]

Hi Katy

Is the above your own work? Or did you pull this from some other online website? Just asking.

Yes, that was my own post. But all I did was quote the book of Jude, so it's unfortunate you reject that book then?

Those scriptures are clear. The apostates, as mentioned in Jude, are confirmed in V19 as not having the Spirit. Can't get any clearer than that really. Emphasis also is on those who were destroyed because they did not believe.

The distinction is made in Jude, between believers (beloved) and the apostate tares, who are dead trees with dead roots.

Those without the Spirit are not God's children. Cain is an example of an apostate of old.

It's 2am here and I'm starting to fade, so will get to the rest of your post later!

 

[LoveGodForever]

Yes, that was my own post. But all I did was quote the book of Jude, so it's unfortunate you reject that book then?

Those scriptures are clear. The apostates, as mentioned in Jude, are confirmed in V19 as not having the Spirit. Can't get any clearer than that really. Emphasis also is on those who were destroyed because they did not believe.

The distinction is made in Jude, between believers (beloved) and the apostate tares, who are dead trees with dead roots.

Those without the Spirit are not God's children. Cain is an example of an apostate of old.

It's 2am here and I'm starting to fade, so will get to the rest of your post later!

Hi Katty,

I have no problem with the the book of Jude. It is just your interpretation of it. The bible is very clear and simple to understand.

Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.

If your professing to know God while continuing in known willful sin you are not following God (Heb 10:26-27; 1John 2:4)

Jude: is talking about the "UnGodly sinners" those that are not following God (false teachers) or those professing faith but only in word only so what I said earlier still applies

Eze 3:20,
Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

God bless and have a nice rest

 

[FranC]

Are you deaf or just blind or both...not one person trusts or believes in the boded above...

You see Laywer.... the works that we do after conversion are.....in him....not for him....

I work unto God, I do not work for God...you...you work solely for God....and others work with God....God's perfect will is that you work unto him.....

Meggido,

What does it mean that you work UNTO God?
What do you mean that works after salvation re IN Him?

You said you are not working FOR God... who are you working for ? The evil one?

You see, there are only two paths --- the path toward God and the path toward destruction.
I believe all of us here (maybe ALL is a big word?) are saved.

And we're all working.

So what does WORK mean anyway?

In John 15:6 Jesus says that if anyone DOES NOT ABIDE in Him, he will be thrown away as a branch and will dry up, be cast into the fire and burned.

In John 15:14 JESUS says that if we are His friends, we WILL DO what HE commanded us.


I guess we should find out what He commanded us since He did speak a lot about it.
Some might post that our work is to BELIEVE in Him whom God has sent.
Is this ALL JESUS SAID? No. He spoke a lot about what we are TO DO.

John 14:21
Jesus said that he who KEEPS HIS COMMANDMENTS (see, there ARE commandments) is the person that loves Jesus.

John 14:24
Jesus said that the person who does NOT love Him, does not keep His words. Words means teachings. OR Commandments, same thing when it's coming from GOD.


So it sounds like you don't like keeping the word of Jesus.
Or do you simply mean that AFTER we're born againg EVERYTHING good that we do is done for the glory of God and so that we can work in HIS Kingdom and KEEP HIS WORD.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes, that was my own post. But all I did was quote the book of Jude, so it's unfortunate you reject that book then?

Those scriptures are clear. The apostates, as mentioned in Jude, are confirmed in V19 as not having the Spirit. Can't get any clearer than that really. Emphasis also is on those who were destroyed because they did not believe.

The distinction is made in Jude, between believers (beloved) and the apostate tares, who are dead trees with dead roots.

Those without the Spirit are not God's children. Cain is an example of an apostate of old.

It's 2am here and I'm starting to fade, so will get to the rest of your post later!

Some people have an "agenda" when they say "We are to follow God and keep the commandments" which does have the "appearance" of good as Paul talks about but there is "something" behind this saying.

What they really mean is "We must keep the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way shown in the law of Moses or these Christians are sinning and dis-obeying God".

This is what the resistance to the truth that "willful sinning" which we know to be rejecting Christ as the sacrifice for sins is rejected by them as the writer of Hebrews was speaking to Jewish people in the letter.

They want to be able to say we are wilfully sinning by not keeping the Sabbath day as in the law of Moses - which is from Friday night until Saturday.

We know that Christ Himself is our true Sabbath rest and that all the Old Testament speaks of Him and the Old Testament way was a shadow of the real substance which is Christ Himself. Col.2 16-17

Some are so deceived that they say that Christians who assemble on sunday worshiping God - that these Christians do is "taking the mark of the beast".

We are not ignorant of the enemies devices.

 

[FranC]

A person cannot have a relationship with God without following the rules set forth by God.

Is there a marriage where there are no rules,where they can cheat on each other,spend the marriage funds on their wants neglecting the finances,although both contribute equally to the marriage,insult each other,and belittle each other,physically abuse each other,a spouse trying to poison the other spouse,and they find out about it,but they still love each other better than they ever did,and still have a wonderful,and exciting relationship,in their marriage.

Is there a business where there are no rules,where the people of the company can embezzle money freely,and encouraged by the owner,and out of an 8 hour day,spend 6 hours of that on break,and steal from the company,and the owner claps their hands,and says bravo,good job,enjoy the spoils of your stealing endeavor,and still have a job,and a wonderful,and exciting relationship with the owner,and still work there.

There is no relationship without rules,for not to abide by what God's character is about,and what His kingdom is about,is to not have a relationship with God.

God is the Creator of all things,including people,and loves them,and they are His property,but the Bible says if any person has the means to help the poor and needy,and does not do it,then the love of God does not dwell in them,they have erred from the faith,and their faith is dead.

The prosperity Gospel neglects the poor and needy,and shall God not have a rule help the poor and needy if He loves people,and the saints are supposed to represent Christ,for to not do it,they do not have a relationship with God,for they go against His love for people.

How can a person go against God's love,and say,I have a relationship with God.

God said give offense in nothing,so the ministry is not blamed,but holding unto sin,and hypocrisy,among many that claim to be with Christ,give offense to the ministry,for they say,forget Christianity,and its hypocrisy,and causes people to not come to the truth,or leave the Church.

Shall God not have a rule,abstain from sin,and stop the hypocrisy,and act Christlike,for they are causing people to not embrace Christianity,and leave Christianity,because of their hypocrisy,giving offense to the ministry that God is using to save people.

The Bible says love not the world,or the things in the world,for all that is in the world,is lust of the flesh,lust of the eyes,and arrogance,and if they do love the world,they are not of the Father.

But there are millions of people that claim Christ that love worldliness,and spending money on material things,fleshy pleasures,worldly entertainment,watching movies that are not godly,and enjoying the things of this world.

And shall God not have a rule to not enjoy the things of this world,and spending money on wants,when there is people in need,and He loves people,and it is also fleshy pleasures that war against the soul.They are supposed to abstain from things of the flesh,not enjoy them.

God hates sin,and His kingdom is love,so to hold unto sin,and not love people,which the Bible says do not love in word only,but love in deed,and in truth,is to not have a relationship with God.

In the world they have rules,and if you do not follow the rules,you are not going to get along with them,and be accepted and have a relationship in whatever,and wherever,they set the rules,whether marriage,business,military,stores,police force,obeying the laws of the nation,or whatever.

Shall friends have a relationship if they do not follow the rules,no stealing from me,no trying to kick my butt,no insulting me,no trying to have sex with my spouse,no getting drunk and kicking my dog,etc.

There is no relationship without rules,for people cannot act anyway they want,and expect to have a relationship.

God is love,and loves people,and hates sin,so how can we have a relationship with God without rules,for we cannot act anyway we want,and have a relationship with Him,and holding unto sin,and not helping the poor and needy if possible,and giving offense to the ministry by being hypocritical,not representing Christ,is to not have a relationship with God.

For in marriage there are rules to not offend each other.
In business there are rules to not offend the business.
In military rules to not offend the military.
In law enforcement rules to not offend the law.

With God rules to not offend Him,and His agenda on earth.People are trying to achieve a certain agenda on earth,and so is God,and to not represent God's ways on earth,by holding unto sin,and being hypocritical,not acting like Christ,is to go against His agenda.

How can a person have a relationship with anyone,or organization,if they are going contrary to the person,or the organizations,agenda.

Does the cabinet members of the president go against the agenda of the president.

But we have many people that claim Christ that go against the agenda that God is putting forth on earth,thy will be done on earth,as it is in heaven,and in heaven there is no sin,and hypocrisy,and so it should be the same way on earth,or we are not doing God's will.

Do the angels do what they want in heaven,and say to the Lord,I do not feel like worshipping you today Lord,and think I will venture off,and take me some time off,and try to find myself,and I do not feel like ministering to any saints today,or helping you out with your salvation plan on earth,when they are ministering spirits sent to all those who shall inherit eternal life.

They do not do that.They stick to the plan,they stick to the mission.Thy will be done on earth,as it is in heaven.

They are not up in heaven being rebellious,so the saints should not be that way on earth.

The Bible says awake to righteousness,and sin not,and Paul said not everyone has the knowledge of God,which he speaks to their shame.

God hates sin,and does not tolerate it,and views it as filthy.

And shall a man work in the sewer for 12 hours covered in filth,and smelling worse than a skunk,and come home to his wife,and not bathe,and do nothing to cleanse himself,and start hugging on his wife,and trying to kiss her,and be all sweet to her,rubbing on her,and will she not say,get away from me,and go clean up first,and present yourself in a decent manner,then I will accept you in a loving way.

And shall we try to have a relationship with God,and say,I love you,and I adore you,and we are holding unto sin,and being hypocritical,and not Christlike,because we want to hold unto some things of the flesh,and worldliness,when God hates sin,and it is filthy to Him.

That is why Christ came,and shed His blood to take away our sins,for then we can receive the Spirit,and if we hate sin,and do not want sin,then by the Spirit we can abstain from sin,and then we can have a relationship with God.

And this is not being strict for we can be forgiven of all our sins,even if we live in sin for 5 years we can be forgiven,we can be forgiven at any time,and we can be right with God again if we mean it to get rid of sins,but we cannot say that while we do sin,or if we hold unto sin for a while that it does not affect our relationship with God,because it does.

"must spread some reputation around"

Can't give you a rep.
YOU DESERVE ONE!!!

 

[FranC]

Some people have an "agenda" when they say "We are to follow God and keep the commandments" which does have the "appearance" of good as Paul talks about but there is "something" behind this saying.

What they really mean is "We must keep the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way shown in the law of Moses or these Christians are sinning and dis-obeying God".

This is what the resistance to the truth that "willful sinning" which we know to be rejecting Christ as the sacrifice for sins is rejected by them as the writer of Hebrews was speaking to Jewish people in the letter.

They want to be able to say we are wilfully sinning by not keeping the Sabbath day as in the law of Moses - which is from Friday night until Saturday.

We know that Christ Himself is our true Sabbath rest and that all the Old Testament speaks of Him and the Old Testament way was a shadow of the real substance which is Christ Himself. Col.2 16-17

Some are so deceived that they say that Christians who assemble on sunday worshiping God - that these Christians do is "taking the mark of the beast".

We are ignorant of the enemies devices.

We all have an agenda Grace.
Why, YOU don't?

I'd like to speak about what Jesus spoke about, for instance.
He sure did speak a lot about what He expects from us.

You and some Others make it sound like Jesus never spoke about how we're to be or how
we're to act.

You make it sound like we don't HAVE TO DO ANYTHING and we could still be living in the Kingdom.

This is impossible.
If we live in the Kingdom, we MUST DO what the King commands.

P.S.
Jesus is NOT the King of unsaved persons. So, we are speaking about saved persons.

 

[FranC]

Will be looking forward to it.

Hi Stone,

Just creating a page follower....

I like to do my posting in the morning, but forgot today is Sunday and
I have company (my daughter's family) on Sundays.

BUT, will get to this right after lunch...
6 hours ahead of you.

Lata...

 

[Jackson123]

We all have an agenda Grace.
Why, YOU don't?

I'd like to speak about what Jesus spoke about, for instance.
He sure did speak a lot about what He expects from us.

You and some Others make it sound like Jesus never spoke about how we're to be or how
we're to act.

You make it sound like we don't HAVE TO DO ANYTHING and we could still be living in the Kingdom.

This is impossible.
If we live in the Kingdom, we MUST DO what the King commands.

P.S.
Jesus is NOT the King of unsaved persons. So, we are speaking about saved persons.

is that mean you do sabbath law to make you save?

 

[FranC]

He died on our behalf, not in our place...big difference

Please look for the redemption thread.

NOT TODAY !! (Sunday)

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi Stone,

Just creating a page follower....

I like to do my posting in the morning, but forgot today is Sunday and
I have company (my daughter's family) on Sundays.

BUT, will get to this right after lunch...
6 hours ahead of you.

Lata...

no problem. It's a fluke that I am awake now. Lol

 

[FranC]

is that mean you do sabbath law to make you save?

No.

I'm not a legalist in any way...
One can do what he feels God is telling him to do.

I was responding to the idea of having an agenda.
Sorry if that wasn't made clear by me -- not enough time...

 

[FranC]

no problem. It's a fluke that I am awake now. Lol

You live in EST?
That's 6:33 a.m. !

OK. Time to go...

Soon

 

[FranC]

Do you know that adding works, or saying there is anything we can add to salvation, or that salvation is not secure in Jesus insults the Spirit of Grace and places God in our debt for our salvation?

How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:29

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God [FONT="]imputeth righteousness [U]without works[/U][/FONT]"[/B] (Romans 4:4-6).[/COLOR] [FONT="]

[/FONT]

UG
This popped up when I was closing down...

So, here we are.

WORKS, which Jesus commanded of us, are now an insult to God ?????

Gotta go...

 

[LoveGodForever]

Some people have an "agenda" when they say "We are to follow God and keep the commandments" which does have the "appearance" of good as Paul talks about but there is "something" behind this saying.

What they really mean is "We must keep the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way shown in the law of Moses or these Christians are sinning and dis-obeying God".

This is what the resistance to the truth that "willful sinning" which we know to be rejecting Christ as the sacrifice for sins is rejected by them as the writer of Hebrews was speaking to Jewish people in the letter.

They want to be able to say we are wilfully sinning by not keeping the Sabbath day as in the law of Moses - which is from Friday night until Saturday.

We know that Christ Himself is our true Sabbath rest and that all the Old Testament speaks of Him and the Old Testament way was a shadow of the real substance which is Christ Himself. Col.2 16-17

Some are so deceived that they say that Christians who assemble on sunday worshiping God - that these Christians do is "taking the mark of the beast".

We are not ignorant of the enemies devices.

Hi Grace777,

You are indeed a funny one with all your funny saying and agendas. It is God's Word not mine if you want to follow God follow Him if not it is up to you

Seems like these scriptures along with many other do not exist for some;

Psa 1:5
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

Psa 9:8
And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.

Ecc 12:14
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Mat 12:36,
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

John 9:39,
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind

Act 17:31,
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Rom 2:5,
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Rom 2:6,
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

2Co 5:10,
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

2Co 5:11,
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Heb 9:27,
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:


Heb 10:26,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Jam 2:12,
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Jam 2:13,
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

2Pe 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2Pe 3:7,
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Jud 1:14-15,
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him

Rev 14:7
Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus


We all have a free choice to choose who we follow or not...

JOHN 12:

[SUP]47,[/SUP] And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
[SUP]48,[/SUP] He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


God's blessing to all

 

[stonesoffire]

You live in EST?
That's 6:33 a.m. !

OK. Time to go...

Soon

I stay up late, sleep in late.

 

[Grace777x70]

One thing to keep in mind is that it is possible to post a "string" of scriptures that are all taken out of context from both the OT and the NT to "prove" a teaching.

I like to use Exodus 32:33 as an example. Let's say I have this "theory" that we must be sinless all of our lives to get to heaven.

I start with the below scripture from Moses and from the start it's not looking good for us......

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

I then can go on to post scriptures from Moses to David to Jesus all about sin and what it does. Then I end up with the book of Revelation 21:8 where it says that all immoral people will be thrown in the lake of fire.

All of these scriptures are true but none of them take into consideration the finished work of Christ and how that Jesus' blood has redeemed sinners.

Jesus' truths trump ( sorry to the Americans for using "trump" as that word can be a stumbling block to some ) all those scriptures that were "strung" together to prove my above theory in the first place.

The finished work of Christ is what all other scriptures need to be interpreted through before IMO they can be legitimately used to support a teaching.

I love to look into the Greek as well for the different nuances and although I did come in 2nd in my Greek class - I have no desire to be able to read it without any help. The Lord has me focusing on different aspects of it.

The funny thing about Greek is that most of the people in NT days spoke Greek and understood the language unlike us today, yet they still needed the Holy Spirit to reveal the truths of the Lord to them.

I find it fascinating to read a scripture I have known all my Christian life and then one day - the Holy Spirit illuminates that scripture and I am amazed at how I didn't see that before.

I maintain that we are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus to us in the scriptures as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

We can read the scriptures through the lens of our natural minds whether we know all the Greek words and structure or not and come away with the wrong reality of spiritual truths.