Not By Works
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We seem to have a problem with our poster here.
Abiding isn't a position. It's what we choose to do if we want to remain in Christ. I'm not saying we do that by ourselves, but we're empowered by the Holy Spirit to do so.
So far, G777 hasn't shown any evidence to prove his "position" theory.
How can he claim someone said Jesus is a liar?
Here's what he's talking about, & it's obvious he hates it..... but displayed no scripture at all to dispute it.
This scripture tells plainly that we live because we're attached to Jesus, the true vine.
Being "thrown away" plainly means to be separated from Christ. No Christ, no life.
Being thrown in the fire means thrown into Hell. Again, it's plain.
Bearing fruit is mandatory. Those bearing fruit are empowered to bear more. This shows the christian is expected to grow & mature spiritually, bearing more fruit as they grow.
This scripture is much more important than these others quoted above. Here's why:
1. Jesus taught it. That makes it absolute truth.
2. Jesus teaches Abiding in its completeness. No pieces, or one-verse wonders.
3. It teaches the truth about fruit bearing. It states fruitfulness is mandatory & what happens when you do & what happens if you don't.
4. It leaves no room for twisting its symbolism nor its message. That's why false teachers won't use it.
5. It states plainly that obedience is the fruit & proves we're abiding in Him.
6. It proves we glorify God by bearing much fruit, & in doing this, prove to the world we're Christ's disciples.
7. It locks in the meaning to properly interpret other teachings about abiding in Christ, so we know what the other authors are really saying, keeping others from twisting them to their advantage.
It's a wonderful scripture, showing us that God makes us able to bear fruit, & multiplies our ability to do so when we live by faith & walk in loving obedience to Him.
Now, that's real grace in action.
So far, G777 hasn't shown any evidence to prove his "position" theory.
How can he claim someone said Jesus is a liar?
Here's what he's talking about, & it's obvious he hates it..... but displayed no scripture at all to dispute it.
John 15
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyonedoes not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.This scripture tells plainly that we live because we're attached to Jesus, the true vine.
Being "thrown away" plainly means to be separated from Christ. No Christ, no life.
Being thrown in the fire means thrown into Hell. Again, it's plain.
Bearing fruit is mandatory. Those bearing fruit are empowered to bear more. This shows the christian is expected to grow & mature spiritually, bearing more fruit as they grow.
This scripture is much more important than these others quoted above. Here's why:
1. Jesus taught it. That makes it absolute truth.
2. Jesus teaches Abiding in its completeness. No pieces, or one-verse wonders.
3. It teaches the truth about fruit bearing. It states fruitfulness is mandatory & what happens when you do & what happens if you don't.
4. It leaves no room for twisting its symbolism nor its message. That's why false teachers won't use it.
5. It states plainly that obedience is the fruit & proves we're abiding in Him.
6. It proves we glorify God by bearing much fruit, & in doing this, prove to the world we're Christ's disciples.
7. It locks in the meaning to properly interpret other teachings about abiding in Christ, so we know what the other authors are really saying, keeping others from twisting them to their advantage.
It's a wonderful scripture, showing us that God makes us able to bear fruit, & multiplies our ability to do so when we live by faith & walk in loving obedience to Him.
Now, that's real grace in action.
A
We are called to add to our faith AFTER being born again.
Perhaps if we spoke of what is need before and what is needed after being born again and adopted into God's family..,, it would be less misunderstanding?
2 Peter 1
3His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us toc his own glory and excellence,d 4by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 5For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue,e and virtue with knowledge, 6and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8For if these qualitiesf are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Perhaps if we spoke of what is need before and what is needed after being born again and adopted into God's family..,, it would be less misunderstanding?
2 Peter 1
3His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us toc his own glory and excellence,d 4by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 5For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue,e and virtue with knowledge, 6and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8For if these qualitiesf are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Here is another way of viewing "What does it meant to abide in Christ?"
I like to use this website from time to time as it is grace-based on the finished work of Christ and those that believe our loving Father throws us into hell will be offended by it but we are not ashamed of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. "In it the righteousness of God is revealed" - not our own righteousness attempts.
It also has a place at the bottom for those that had questions on the article. I often learned from the others there posting as well as the original article.
John 15:6 – Abiding in the Vine
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. (Jn 15:6)
What does it mean to abide in the vine?
You need to have a good answer to that question because Jesus warned that there are consequences for not abiding in the vine. He also said that those who do abide in the vine will bear much fruit:
As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit. (Jn 15:4)
Many people interpret the words of Jesus as carrots and sticks. They think, if I fail to abide I will be cast out and burned, but if I do abide I will bear much fruit, so I’d better start bearing fruit.
Read it like this and Jesus’ words will become a law for you: produce or perish! And that’s going to be a problem because the fruit Jesus is looking for you can’t produce. Apart from Him the only thing you can produce is Frankenfruit!
In this short series on the commands of Jesus, we have seen that Jesus expects us to do impossible things, namely, He expects us to do the same works He did and greater works still.
Happily, He has promised that we will do these impossible things because He is in us and we are branches to His vine. Unfruitful branches are not chopped off, but are lifted up out of the dirt. This lifting up and the bearing of fruit in us is something that He does. So far, so good.
But what does it mean to abide or remain in Him? That sounds as if Jesus is putting conditions on us. It sounds like He is saying, you have to do something otherwise you’ll be tossed and burned. But what is the something we must do?
I guarantee you that any list of somethings that man comes up with will include keep short accounts with God or confess your sins. This is a classic example of watering down scripture to accommodate human shortcomings. You want something to do? Try this:
Whoever abides in Him does not sin. (1 Jn 3:6, NKJV)
What does God expect of those who abide in Him? Zero sin! Yet many people believe, “whoever abides in Him may sin occasionally – after all, we’re only human – but as long as we quickly confess our sin God will be faithful and just and forgive us our sin.”
Well God is faithful and just but you can’t use His goodness to wriggle out of 1 John 3:6. You can’t lower His standards to accommodate your less-than-perfect performance.
A line in the sand
I occasionally get emails from people who are opposed to the gospel of grace. They say we must do everything in the Bible or at least everything that Jesus says. Well Jesus said, “be perfect” (Mt 5:8) – how’s that working out for you? I might just as easily respond with the words of John:
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. (1 Jn 3:6, NIV)
I love this! This verse deals life to those who trust Jesus and utter condemnation to those who don’t.
It draws a big fat line in the sand and shouts, “Choose your Savior!” To those who are trusting in their own good behavior this verse declares, “Your best is not good enough. God expects sinless perfection.”
Either you must be perfect or you must put your faith in a perfect, representative. Guess who! Jesus is our perfect High Priest (Heb 7:28)! We stand on His sinless performance, not our own.
A promise, not a condition
Jesus told the disciples, you are in me (our imperfections are hidden in His perfection) and I am in you (we carry His sinless DNA). Jesus didn’t sin and He won’t ever sin.
If you let Him live His life through you, then without any conscious effort on your part you’re going to start talking and acting just like sinless Jesus. This is a glorious promise for all who believe:
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (1 Jn 3:9)
So what does it mean to abide in the vine? Here’s the answer we’ve all been waiting for…
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. (1 Jn 4:15)
Have you confessed that Jesus is the Son of God? Then God abides in you and you in Him. You may wonder, But how did this happen? All I did was confess.
Well you could not have believed and confessed Jesus as Lord unless the Holy Spirit had led you to do so (1 Cor 12:3). The work and the glory are all His. Rest in that!
The trouble is, you can’t rest because somewhere inside there is a little voice that’s asking, Can I abide today and not abide tomorrow? Can I be in the vine one moment and cut off the next? Why would Jesus tell his disciples to abide if there wasn’t any danger of not abiding?
The problem, as usual, is found between our ears. Most of us have grown up with a slave mentality that says our value is determined by what we do. This was certainly true of the disciples who had been born and bred under the law.
They were conditioned to think in terms of their performance. This works mindset is also evident in some of our English translations:
Remain in me, and I will remain in you. (Jn 15:4, NIV)
Again, that sounds like a condition. It sounds like Jesus is saying, if your abiding performance is up to scratch, then I will reward you by abiding as well.
But it is not a condition to make us sweat; it is a promise to make us rest. In John 15 Jesus goes to great lengths to counter the law-mentality of the disciples. He does this by hitting them with promise after promise:
As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. (Jn 15:9)
How does the Father love Jesus? Ask yourself this question: How many miracles or works had Jesus done when the Father declared from heaven, “this is my beloved Son?” None!
The Father loves Jesus unconditionally, without any reference to His performance or fruit. That means that Jesus loves us unconditionally! He wants us to rest in His unconditional love.
You’re free? Be free!
Just to recap – if you think abiding is something we must do, then understand that the evidence of abiding is zero sin. This is humanly impossible.
The only logical response to the command “abide!” is to trust in Jesus and His performance and quit trying to impress Him with yours.
The word “abide” connotes “rest” and “surrender,” not “struggle” and “try harder.”
Trust God, the abiding issue is all settled from His side. “Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him.” But it may not be settled from your side. You may still be struggling with that old servant mentality.
Instead of rest there is insecurity. Instead of joy there is anxiety. Am I in? Can I be cut off? If this is you, let Jesus speak to your insecurity:
I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. (Jn 8:34-36)
The reality is, you are free indeed because Jesus has set you free. The reality is, you are abiding in the vine because you have confessed Him as Lord. But you may not be experiencing that reality.
You may feel like you’re not free or you’re not abiding. Although you are a son with a permanent place in the family, you may still think and act like the slave that you used to be.
There’s only one solution: renew your mind! Stop living by feelings and start walking by faith. You are abiding in fact, so start abiding in practice.
When Jesus said, “anyone who does not abide in Me is cast out as a branch, withers, and is thrown into the fire,” He was not referring to fruitless Christians. (They are lifted up.)
He was describing those who refuse to believe to that He is the Son of God. He was describing those who are looking for life outside of the true vine.
If you have confessed Jesus as your Lord, then walk in that the truth: You are free, God Himself abides in you, and as a son or daughter you have a permanent place in His family.
Thank you Jesus!
Unquote:
Here is the link to the questions at the bottom that others have asked if anyone wants to see them.
https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/08/john-15v6_abide-in-the-vine/
I like to use this website from time to time as it is grace-based on the finished work of Christ and those that believe our loving Father throws us into hell will be offended by it but we are not ashamed of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. "In it the righteousness of God is revealed" - not our own righteousness attempts.
It also has a place at the bottom for those that had questions on the article. I often learned from the others there posting as well as the original article.
John 15:6 – Abiding in the Vine
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. (Jn 15:6)
What does it mean to abide in the vine?
You need to have a good answer to that question because Jesus warned that there are consequences for not abiding in the vine. He also said that those who do abide in the vine will bear much fruit:
As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit. (Jn 15:4)
Many people interpret the words of Jesus as carrots and sticks. They think, if I fail to abide I will be cast out and burned, but if I do abide I will bear much fruit, so I’d better start bearing fruit.
Read it like this and Jesus’ words will become a law for you: produce or perish! And that’s going to be a problem because the fruit Jesus is looking for you can’t produce. Apart from Him the only thing you can produce is Frankenfruit!
In this short series on the commands of Jesus, we have seen that Jesus expects us to do impossible things, namely, He expects us to do the same works He did and greater works still.
Happily, He has promised that we will do these impossible things because He is in us and we are branches to His vine. Unfruitful branches are not chopped off, but are lifted up out of the dirt. This lifting up and the bearing of fruit in us is something that He does. So far, so good.
But what does it mean to abide or remain in Him? That sounds as if Jesus is putting conditions on us. It sounds like He is saying, you have to do something otherwise you’ll be tossed and burned. But what is the something we must do?
I guarantee you that any list of somethings that man comes up with will include keep short accounts with God or confess your sins. This is a classic example of watering down scripture to accommodate human shortcomings. You want something to do? Try this:
Whoever abides in Him does not sin. (1 Jn 3:6, NKJV)
What does God expect of those who abide in Him? Zero sin! Yet many people believe, “whoever abides in Him may sin occasionally – after all, we’re only human – but as long as we quickly confess our sin God will be faithful and just and forgive us our sin.”
Well God is faithful and just but you can’t use His goodness to wriggle out of 1 John 3:6. You can’t lower His standards to accommodate your less-than-perfect performance.
A line in the sand
I occasionally get emails from people who are opposed to the gospel of grace. They say we must do everything in the Bible or at least everything that Jesus says. Well Jesus said, “be perfect” (Mt 5:8) – how’s that working out for you? I might just as easily respond with the words of John:
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. (1 Jn 3:6, NIV)
I love this! This verse deals life to those who trust Jesus and utter condemnation to those who don’t.
It draws a big fat line in the sand and shouts, “Choose your Savior!” To those who are trusting in their own good behavior this verse declares, “Your best is not good enough. God expects sinless perfection.”
Either you must be perfect or you must put your faith in a perfect, representative. Guess who! Jesus is our perfect High Priest (Heb 7:28)! We stand on His sinless performance, not our own.
A promise, not a condition
Jesus told the disciples, you are in me (our imperfections are hidden in His perfection) and I am in you (we carry His sinless DNA). Jesus didn’t sin and He won’t ever sin.
If you let Him live His life through you, then without any conscious effort on your part you’re going to start talking and acting just like sinless Jesus. This is a glorious promise for all who believe:
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (1 Jn 3:9)
So what does it mean to abide in the vine? Here’s the answer we’ve all been waiting for…
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. (1 Jn 4:15)
Have you confessed that Jesus is the Son of God? Then God abides in you and you in Him. You may wonder, But how did this happen? All I did was confess.
Well you could not have believed and confessed Jesus as Lord unless the Holy Spirit had led you to do so (1 Cor 12:3). The work and the glory are all His. Rest in that!
The trouble is, you can’t rest because somewhere inside there is a little voice that’s asking, Can I abide today and not abide tomorrow? Can I be in the vine one moment and cut off the next? Why would Jesus tell his disciples to abide if there wasn’t any danger of not abiding?
The problem, as usual, is found between our ears. Most of us have grown up with a slave mentality that says our value is determined by what we do. This was certainly true of the disciples who had been born and bred under the law.
They were conditioned to think in terms of their performance. This works mindset is also evident in some of our English translations:
Remain in me, and I will remain in you. (Jn 15:4, NIV)
Again, that sounds like a condition. It sounds like Jesus is saying, if your abiding performance is up to scratch, then I will reward you by abiding as well.
But it is not a condition to make us sweat; it is a promise to make us rest. In John 15 Jesus goes to great lengths to counter the law-mentality of the disciples. He does this by hitting them with promise after promise:
As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. (Jn 15:9)
How does the Father love Jesus? Ask yourself this question: How many miracles or works had Jesus done when the Father declared from heaven, “this is my beloved Son?” None!
The Father loves Jesus unconditionally, without any reference to His performance or fruit. That means that Jesus loves us unconditionally! He wants us to rest in His unconditional love.
You’re free? Be free!
Just to recap – if you think abiding is something we must do, then understand that the evidence of abiding is zero sin. This is humanly impossible.
The only logical response to the command “abide!” is to trust in Jesus and His performance and quit trying to impress Him with yours.
The word “abide” connotes “rest” and “surrender,” not “struggle” and “try harder.”
Trust God, the abiding issue is all settled from His side. “Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him.” But it may not be settled from your side. You may still be struggling with that old servant mentality.
Instead of rest there is insecurity. Instead of joy there is anxiety. Am I in? Can I be cut off? If this is you, let Jesus speak to your insecurity:
I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. (Jn 8:34-36)
The reality is, you are free indeed because Jesus has set you free. The reality is, you are abiding in the vine because you have confessed Him as Lord. But you may not be experiencing that reality.
You may feel like you’re not free or you’re not abiding. Although you are a son with a permanent place in the family, you may still think and act like the slave that you used to be.
There’s only one solution: renew your mind! Stop living by feelings and start walking by faith. You are abiding in fact, so start abiding in practice.
When Jesus said, “anyone who does not abide in Me is cast out as a branch, withers, and is thrown into the fire,” He was not referring to fruitless Christians. (They are lifted up.)
He was describing those who refuse to believe to that He is the Son of God. He was describing those who are looking for life outside of the true vine.
If you have confessed Jesus as your Lord, then walk in that the truth: You are free, God Himself abides in you, and as a son or daughter you have a permanent place in His family.
Thank you Jesus!
Unquote:
Here is the link to the questions at the bottom that others have asked if anyone wants to see them.
https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/08/john-15v6_abide-in-the-vine/
I find it odd to suggest Gods attitude to sin has changed.
What has changed is in Christ we see Gods heart and that sin is always about I want
rather than I can serve.
When you begin to see what love is, not seeing the sinful behaviour but the lostness of the
sinner, it comes to life.
Sin is always about us not understanding our real needs and denying Gods ways, but many
get confused about accepting who they are and working for resolution. I will never trust
those who compromise righteousness for the sake of peace, that has always been the road
of sinners. Find out why your emotions dictate sin rather than just giving in.
What has changed is in Christ we see Gods heart and that sin is always about I want
rather than I can serve.
When you begin to see what love is, not seeing the sinful behaviour but the lostness of the
sinner, it comes to life.
Sin is always about us not understanding our real needs and denying Gods ways, but many
get confused about accepting who they are and working for resolution. I will never trust
those who compromise righteousness for the sake of peace, that has always been the road
of sinners. Find out why your emotions dictate sin rather than just giving in.
A
The question is the prize at the end of the race of life...eternal life/salvation or a different crown?
I believe it's a different crown.
I view this world more of a battlefield than a race, with many injured brethren that need our help.
If I see it as a race, it would be a rally race with an injured loved one as our batton we pass towards home/God.
I believe it's a different crown.
I view this world more of a battlefield than a race, with many injured brethren that need our help.
If I see it as a race, it would be a rally race with an injured loved one as our batton we pass towards home/God.
Its a pretty good lesson for kids Fran. Just this one sentence I don't quite see.
" if they don't do what they're supposed to and what the Jesus ant tells them to, it might make God angry because He sees the ant as being very ungrateful toward His love."
This is how I viewed Father too as a kid. I heard a lot about the wrath of God and was fearful of Him. It's a poor picture of our Father in heaven, and scripture says His wrath will only fall on those who have refused His own offering of salvation through His Son.
He just loves us too much to hold anything against us for failures. Otherwise, how could we ever approach Him for restoration?
" if they don't do what they're supposed to and what the Jesus ant tells them to, it might make God angry because He sees the ant as being very ungrateful toward His love."
This is how I viewed Father too as a kid. I heard a lot about the wrath of God and was fearful of Him. It's a poor picture of our Father in heaven, and scripture says His wrath will only fall on those who have refused His own offering of salvation through His Son.
He just loves us too much to hold anything against us for failures. Otherwise, how could we ever approach Him for restoration?
Jesus BEGINS our FAITH
JESUS finishes our FAITH
JESUS promises to COMPLETE that GOOD work he began in US........
What is so hard about that to understand.....look out in your yard....which tree do you see removing it's own limbs"
Do your tomato plants prune themselves?
So....you believe salvation is temporary and can be lost if YOU do not do something right?
JESUS finishes our FAITH
JESUS promises to COMPLETE that GOOD work he began in US........
What is so hard about that to understand.....look out in your yard....which tree do you see removing it's own limbs"
Do your tomato plants prune themselves?
So....you believe salvation is temporary and can be lost if YOU do not do something right?
The bolded is why any do not understand.......
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Being born of the spirit<---what is required to understand the word.....and if you blend anything with faith to gain, keep or facilitate salvation = a false gospel with no power to save.....that pretty mush sums up why they cannot understand.....nor will they until they actually trust JESUS by faith and faith alone.....Galatians 1 and 3 are clear enough!
hi stunned
do these help?
Joh 6:27 Do not work for food that perishes but for food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set his seal on him."
Joh 6:28 Then they asked him, "What must we do to perform the actions of God?"
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered them, "This is the action of God: to believe in the one whom he has sent."
do these help?
Joh 6:27 Do not work for food that perishes but for food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set his seal on him."
Joh 6:28 Then they asked him, "What must we do to perform the actions of God?"
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered them, "This is the action of God: to believe in the one whom he has sent."
We seem to have a problem with our poster here. Abiding isn't a position. It's what we choose to do if we want to remain in Christ. I'm not saying we do that by ourselves, but we're empowered by the Holy Spirit to do so.
So far, G777 hasn't shown any evidence to prove his "position" theory.
How can he claim someone said Jesus is a liar?
Here's what he's talking about, & it's obvious he hates it..... but displayed no scripture at all to dispute it.
This scripture tells plainly that we live because we're attached to Jesus, the true vine.
Being "thrown away" plainly means to be separated from Christ. No Christ, no life.
Being thrown in the fire means thrown into Hell. Again, it's plain.
Bearing fruit is mandatory. Those bearing fruit are empowered to bear more. This shows the christian is expected to grow & mature spiritually, bearing more fruit as they grow.
This scripture is much more important than these others quoted above. Here's why:
1. Jesus taught it. That makes it absolute truth.
2. Jesus teaches Abiding in its completeness. No pieces, or one-verse wonders.
3. It teaches the truth about fruit bearing. It states fruitfulness is mandatory & what happens when you do & what happens if you don't.
4. It leaves no room for twisting its symbolism nor its message. That's why false teachers won't use it.
5. It states plainly that obedience is the fruit & proves we're abiding in Him.
6. It proves we glorify God by bearing much fruit, & in doing this, prove to the world we're Christ's disciples.
7. It locks in the meaning to properly interpret other teachings about abiding in Christ, so we know what the other authors are really saying, keeping others from twisting them to their advantage.
It's a wonderful scripture, showing us that God makes us able to bear fruit, & multiplies our ability to do so when we live by faith & walk in loving obedience to Him.
Now, that's real grace in action.
So far, G777 hasn't shown any evidence to prove his "position" theory.
How can he claim someone said Jesus is a liar?
Here's what he's talking about, & it's obvious he hates it..... but displayed no scripture at all to dispute it.
John 15
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyonedoes not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.This scripture tells plainly that we live because we're attached to Jesus, the true vine.
Being "thrown away" plainly means to be separated from Christ. No Christ, no life.
Being thrown in the fire means thrown into Hell. Again, it's plain.
Bearing fruit is mandatory. Those bearing fruit are empowered to bear more. This shows the christian is expected to grow & mature spiritually, bearing more fruit as they grow.
This scripture is much more important than these others quoted above. Here's why:
1. Jesus taught it. That makes it absolute truth.
2. Jesus teaches Abiding in its completeness. No pieces, or one-verse wonders.
3. It teaches the truth about fruit bearing. It states fruitfulness is mandatory & what happens when you do & what happens if you don't.
4. It leaves no room for twisting its symbolism nor its message. That's why false teachers won't use it.
5. It states plainly that obedience is the fruit & proves we're abiding in Him.
6. It proves we glorify God by bearing much fruit, & in doing this, prove to the world we're Christ's disciples.
7. It locks in the meaning to properly interpret other teachings about abiding in Christ, so we know what the other authors are really saying, keeping others from twisting them to their advantage.
It's a wonderful scripture, showing us that God makes us able to bear fruit, & multiplies our ability to do so when we live by faith & walk in loving obedience to Him.
Now, that's real grace in action.
Tis why I posted those scriptures about the world being the field, and seed sown in it. Yet some sprouts up as weeds.
Several parables explaining the same message? I believe so.
Paul is showing here that Jesus is the last Adam and in the same manner as all men in Adam are condemned - so all men in the last Adam ( Christ Himself as man's representative) - all in Christ's work are not condemned - unless they refuse to believe in Christ's work.
Jesus said that He came not to condemn men but to bring life and salvation.
Life is made available to those that receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness - all because of Christ's work for humanity.
Romans 5:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
God in Christ is the Savior of the whole world - especially of believers. This doesn't mean that all dogs go to heaven because one must believe and receive what Christ has done when they hear the gospel message. Eph. 1:13
1 Timothy 4:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
John the Baptists said "Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world".
Jesus has now all authority in heaven and in earth.
Paul is saying that all have died with Christ because Jesus is also called the Son of Man too. He is our representative for all of man-kind before the Father. Knowing what that phrase means will change our view of the gospel in many ways.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
All man-kind is included in the death of Christ but they need to believe it and thus receive it. This is what the willful sin that the Holy Spirit convicts/convinces the world of - unbelief in Christ Himself.
As I said before - the 2 thieves on the cross being "crucified with Him" is a type or picture of all humanity being included in His finished work. One thief believed - the other didn't.
Matthew 27:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.
Notice too that Jesus will put the sheep on His right hand and the goats on His left hand out of His kingdom because all authority has been given unto Him. He is Lord - no one makes Him Lord.
I would bet anything that the thief that "believed in Jesus " was on His right hand side "being crucified with Him."
Matthew 25:33 (KJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
It is interesting that the Holy Spirit thought this was significant because He included the truth of the 2 thieves being "crucified with Him"in every one of the 4 gospels.
All of the world and it's people belongs to Christ now. Our Lord has redeemed His original people back to Himself. Thank you Jesus!
This is also what is meant by Jesus when He said "He will take out of His kingdom all those that practice lawlessness"
Lawlessness is living by your own ways and not depending on Christ Himself in what He has already done.
This can manifest in many ways - from displaying "good works" as Matt 7 shows some thought they could do to be righteous. This can also manifest in immoral ways of living such as malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.
Both are manifestations of "lawlessness". Both are products of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil;. Both types of fruit on are the same tree.
So, those that hear the message of Christ and believe in Christ in their heart - are then sealed with the Holy Spirit and these "abide/remain/and stay in Christ".
Without Him - no amount of good works can save us. He alone is the Savior of the world - especially to those who believe when they hear of Him and what H has done.
There is a vast difference between universalism which says that all dogs go to heaven and a universal atonement. One must believe in Christ in order to receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness. Rom. 5:17
Jesus said that He came not to condemn men but to bring life and salvation.
Life is made available to those that receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness - all because of Christ's work for humanity.
Romans 5:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
God in Christ is the Savior of the whole world - especially of believers. This doesn't mean that all dogs go to heaven because one must believe and receive what Christ has done when they hear the gospel message. Eph. 1:13
1 Timothy 4:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
John the Baptists said "Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world".
Jesus has now all authority in heaven and in earth.
Paul is saying that all have died with Christ because Jesus is also called the Son of Man too. He is our representative for all of man-kind before the Father. Knowing what that phrase means will change our view of the gospel in many ways.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
All man-kind is included in the death of Christ but they need to believe it and thus receive it. This is what the willful sin that the Holy Spirit convicts/convinces the world of - unbelief in Christ Himself.
As I said before - the 2 thieves on the cross being "crucified with Him" is a type or picture of all humanity being included in His finished work. One thief believed - the other didn't.
Matthew 27:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.
Notice too that Jesus will put the sheep on His right hand and the goats on His left hand out of His kingdom because all authority has been given unto Him. He is Lord - no one makes Him Lord.
I would bet anything that the thief that "believed in Jesus " was on His right hand side "being crucified with Him."
Matthew 25:33 (KJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
It is interesting that the Holy Spirit thought this was significant because He included the truth of the 2 thieves being "crucified with Him"in every one of the 4 gospels.
All of the world and it's people belongs to Christ now. Our Lord has redeemed His original people back to Himself. Thank you Jesus!
This is also what is meant by Jesus when He said "He will take out of His kingdom all those that practice lawlessness"
Lawlessness is living by your own ways and not depending on Christ Himself in what He has already done.
This can manifest in many ways - from displaying "good works" as Matt 7 shows some thought they could do to be righteous. This can also manifest in immoral ways of living such as malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.
Both are manifestations of "lawlessness". Both are products of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil;. Both types of fruit on are the same tree.
So, those that hear the message of Christ and believe in Christ in their heart - are then sealed with the Holy Spirit and these "abide/remain/and stay in Christ".
Without Him - no amount of good works can save us. He alone is the Savior of the world - especially to those who believe when they hear of Him and what H has done.
There is a vast difference between universalism which says that all dogs go to heaven and a universal atonement. One must believe in Christ in order to receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness. Rom. 5:17
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It is sooo obvious what the difference is..... It's shown when we love God & our neighbor as our self.
Plus, Godly works have God backing them, making the believer more fruitful.
God through His Spirit make our godly works glorify Him, because it belongs to Him. He causes them to be seen by the world.
It's not by might , nor by power, but by my Spirit says the LORD of Hosts.
Why can't G777 tell the difference?
I hate to keep saying it like this, but it's false teaching to bundle "rest" with "abide" as if they're the same.
The "rest" we have is the Sabbath rest given to us by Jesus, that we should rest from self-works. (Heb 3-4)
Hebrews 4
8For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.Though we are to rest in Jesus, resting is not abiding. These verses state both resting & abiding:
Mat 11:28“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
The yoke is abiding in obedience, & the rest comes from abiding in Christ. But they are NOT the same.
Because we trust in Christ, We walk in obedience (His yoke) & rest from our own carnal works.
Your Unbreakable Union with Christ
Some Christians understand their union with the Lord but only half way. “Sure, God is with us, but sometimes he isn’t. He comes and he goes.” It’s true that in the Old Testament the Holy Spirit came upon certain people at certain times, but that was then and this is now.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit abides with us and makes his home with us (John 14:16–17). By home he means home. You are not a motel room for the Lord. You are a walking, talking, living, breathing temple of the Holy Spirit. He is not going anywhere.
“Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is with me even when I sin?” Yes! Christ’s love for you and his union with you is stronger than any sin.
Under the old covenant, sinning was your fast track to disunion. If you sinned you risked being cut off from the people of God.
Jesus said if your hand or eye causes you to sin, get rid of it (Matthew 5:29–30). Why did Jesus preach self-amputation to those born under the law?
Because under that covenant it made sense to talk about removing those parts of the body that might contaminate the whole. Thank the Lord the old covenant is gone! We are not under law but grace, and this is good news for the members of the body of Christ.
When we sin, Jesus does not cut us off; we remain members of his body. This totally changes the way we look at sin.
Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! (1 Corinthians 6:15b)
Under the old covenant we were restrained from sin through mortal terror but in the new we are restrained by love. Look again at Paul’s warning about prostitutes. Behind the warning—don’t do it—there is a surprising and reassuring affirmation of union. Paul is saying it is possible, though not advisable, to unite the members of Christ’s body with prostitutes.
Do you see it? Earthly marriages may break and fail, but your union with Christ is unbreakable. Sin cannot break it. Addiction cannot break it. The stupidest decisions you might ever make cannot break it.
This should not be taken as a challenge to see what you can get away with but as a stunning declaration of Christ’s absolute commitment to love you and stick with you no matter what. This is what changes us—not the weak influence of the rule, but the relentless and determined passion of his love.
The love of God is the greatest force in the universe. Sin wilts before it. When you encounter the undaunted and unending love of Christ, it changes you. You no longer want to sin. The passing pleasures of this world lose their appeal because you have found a love that is truer and better by far.
.Extracted from chapter 4 “Union,” The Gospel in Ten Words.
Some Christians understand their union with the Lord but only half way. “Sure, God is with us, but sometimes he isn’t. He comes and he goes.” It’s true that in the Old Testament the Holy Spirit came upon certain people at certain times, but that was then and this is now.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit abides with us and makes his home with us (John 14:16–17). By home he means home. You are not a motel room for the Lord. You are a walking, talking, living, breathing temple of the Holy Spirit. He is not going anywhere.
“Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is with me even when I sin?” Yes! Christ’s love for you and his union with you is stronger than any sin.
Under the old covenant, sinning was your fast track to disunion. If you sinned you risked being cut off from the people of God.
Jesus said if your hand or eye causes you to sin, get rid of it (Matthew 5:29–30). Why did Jesus preach self-amputation to those born under the law?
Because under that covenant it made sense to talk about removing those parts of the body that might contaminate the whole. Thank the Lord the old covenant is gone! We are not under law but grace, and this is good news for the members of the body of Christ.
When we sin, Jesus does not cut us off; we remain members of his body. This totally changes the way we look at sin.
Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! (1 Corinthians 6:15b)
Under the old covenant we were restrained from sin through mortal terror but in the new we are restrained by love. Look again at Paul’s warning about prostitutes. Behind the warning—don’t do it—there is a surprising and reassuring affirmation of union. Paul is saying it is possible, though not advisable, to unite the members of Christ’s body with prostitutes.
Do you see it? Earthly marriages may break and fail, but your union with Christ is unbreakable. Sin cannot break it. Addiction cannot break it. The stupidest decisions you might ever make cannot break it.
This should not be taken as a challenge to see what you can get away with but as a stunning declaration of Christ’s absolute commitment to love you and stick with you no matter what. This is what changes us—not the weak influence of the rule, but the relentless and determined passion of his love.
The love of God is the greatest force in the universe. Sin wilts before it. When you encounter the undaunted and unending love of Christ, it changes you. You no longer want to sin. The passing pleasures of this world lose their appeal because you have found a love that is truer and better by far.
.Extracted from chapter 4 “Union,” The Gospel in Ten Words.
How can you expect any truth from a guy like that?
How can we expect any truth from those that say our loving Father throws His children into the lake of fire?
In this false religion - our Father would throw those that have not grown up in Christ yet into hell. What religious nonsense and it is anti-Christ in it's core belief.
Can you imagine this father in the picture above throwing this child into hell because it hasn't grown up yet?
Religion is such foolishness and it is indicative of the fact that they don't know the love of the Father yet nor have any understanding of the real gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
In this false religion - our Father would throw those that have not grown up in Christ yet into hell. What religious nonsense and it is anti-Christ in it's core belief.
Can you imagine this father in the picture above throwing this child into hell because it hasn't grown up yet?
Religion is such foolishness and it is indicative of the fact that they don't know the love of the Father yet nor have any understanding of the real gospel of the grace of God in Christ.