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Thread: Not By Works

  1. #27481
    Senior Member JIMBO43's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    Most athletic ability is NOT genetic but learnt over a long period of repeated training and exercise.

    The DNA code has degraded since Adam and Eve and that's why we have genetic diseases.

    God made us all super athletics. It is sin and it's affect on the world that made us less than that.
    this is intresting but no more shall we bare the eniquity of our ancestors..

    the question i asked is ,,,,,, is it ok to altor genetics to make the female have more testosterone ? to be a super athlete ?
    may the lord inspire you to post something that has come through communion..

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    may the lord inspire you to post something that has come through communion..

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    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    I so enjoy how you preach the role of grace in the life of the believer

    God’s grace is a discipline of self-denial
    I guess I would flip this around to deny self, because it is in grace that our striving ceases (self effort to be good) and it His presence ....it is His very nature within us that puts down the old man so that self is denied

    I am sure this is how you meant it but that having dealt with various legalistic preachers who preach self-denial it has that connotation of self work and it brings back bad memories. LOL


    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Very good! Grace not only brings salvation, it also teaches us. Teaching means instruct, educate, and carries the idea of nurture, which also involves disciplining us. God’s grace is a discipline of self-denial and an instructor to live sensibly, righteously and godly in this present age.
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post
    I so enjoy how you preach the role of grace in the life of the believer



    I guess I would flip this around to deny self, because it is in grace that our striving ceases (self effort to be good) and it His presence ....it is His very nature within us that puts down the old man so that self is denied

    I am sure this is how you meant it but that having dealt with various legalistic preachers who preach self-denial it has that connotation of self work and it brings back bad memories. LOL
    Cease all striving and know that I am God.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    may the lord inspire you to post something that has come through communion..

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post
    I guess I would flip this around to deny self, because it is in grace that our striving ceases (self effort to be good) and it His presence ....it is His very nature within us that puts down the old man so that self is denied

    I am sure this is how you meant it but that having dealt with various legalistic preachers who preach self-denial it has that connotation of self work and it brings back bad memories. LOL
    Yes, I meant it as deny self and not as the legalistic teachers preach it.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    I'm still fumed up that I fell for it for so long. My joy far outweighs that but the anger is still there and I want to give a drink of water to those still in this prison.

    How could I have ever believed that God would say to me I must not have anger in my heart or I murder, and then not see that the way I was thinking about it meant that God was asking the impossible of me.

    And yet, even though I was still in that prison, He DID increase my virtue. He DID give me some victories. Because I gave up trying and saw it was useless. So He answered my trust in Him to do it even while I still had some fetters...

  8. #27488
    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Join the club.....LOL...I so hear ya sister!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    I'm still fumed up that I fell for it for so long. My joy far outweighs that but the anger is still there and I want to give a drink of water to those still in this prison.

    How could I have ever believed that God would say to me I must not have anger in my heart or I murder, and then not see that the way I was thinking about it meant that God was asking the impossible of me.

    And yet, even though I was still in that prison, He DID increase my virtue. He DID give me some victories. Because I gave up trying and saw it was useless. So He answered my trust in Him to do it even while I still had some fetters...
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

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    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Hi, no one has called me a heretic yet, not even you ... so no need to apologize

    I was only using the word for added emphasis about how I am viewed since Megiddo has told me to be quiet which can only mean my words are heretical

    Anyway, yes I agree we are glorified when we die, however disconnecting ourselves from the vine for sin, then you must admit none of us stands a chance since the sermon on the mount has raised the bar beyond the reaches of any of us.


    As a child I was raised catholic, and your belief system sounds like Catholicism to me, if you are honest with yourself you will know a person cannot achieve the perfection of Jesus so I say believe that He has paid the penalty for sin and restored our union with God and to those who believe this for themselves they will receive His free gift of salvation.




    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBO43 View Post
    i am sorry for calling you a heritic however i felt what you where saying was heritic....coz all tho the finished work of christ was accomplished by him ,,,, we have not fullfilled that work of christ untill we have recieved are new body...

    this is what is heritic to me that people say they are the finished work of Christ,, we do not fully become like christ untill we recieve are new body,,, may you forgive me now for expressing that what you say we are not to strive for salvation..
    we need to strive to refrain from anger when it hits
    Meaning if we carry on in anger and do unthinkable damage we may disconnect ourselves from the vine.

    besides you where liking peoples posts who where calling me a heritic.. so what i am suppose to think ? coz i really cant see striving to refrain from anger when your angry for fear of losing your salvation ? not holy
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

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    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Also, people are not saying we are the finished work of Christ, if that were true we would be glorified, it is because of Christ's

    finished work that we are saved, there is no work we can add to what Jesus has already done so completely on our behalf,

    our job is to believe it and become a new creation in Him, the flesh is still there, but we have been spiritually reborn from above

    and

    now we have access to His grace which is His very essence that conforms us to His image.

    I know it can be so hard to see/understand what people are saying if one has been taught differently, I can only say that would you not prefer a life of peace and grace then a life striving in your own self-effort to put the old man down?


    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBO43 View Post
    i am sorry for calling you a heritic however i felt what you where saying was heritic....coz all tho the finished work of christ was accomplished by him ,,,, we have not fullfilled that work of christ untill we have recieved are new body...

    this is what is heritic to me that people say they are the finished work of Christ,, we do not fully become like christ untill we recieve are new body,,, may you forgive me now for expressing that what you say we are not to strive for salvation..
    we need to strive to refrain from anger when it hits
    Meaning if we carry on in anger and do unthinkable damage we may disconnect ourselves from the vine.

    besides you where liking peoples posts who where calling me a heritic.. so what i am suppose to think ? coz i really cant see striving to refrain from anger when your angry for fear of losing your salvation ? not holy
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

  11. #27491
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    theese works we must do
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    may the lord inspire you to post something that has come through communion..

  12. #27492
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post
    Hi, no one has called me a heretic yet, not even you ... so no need to apologize

    I was only using the word for added emphasis about how I am viewed since Megiddo has told me to be quiet which can only mean my words are heretical

    Anyway, yes I agree we are glorified when we die, however disconnecting ourselves from the vine for sin, then you must admit none of us stands a chance since the sermon on the mount has raised the bar beyond the reaches of any of us.
    i think that you forget here that Gods grace is sufficient for you to not dissconnect your self as your friends say Gods grace is enabling for you to do Good works... i mean can you have it both ways ?...

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post
    As a child I was raised catholic, and your belief system sounds like Catholicism to me, if you are honest with yourself you will know a person cannot achieve the perfection of Jesus so I say believe that He has paid the penalty for sin and restored our union with God and to those who believe this for themselves they will receive His free gift of salvation.
    catholicism is only the venom.. meaning just as the moses was lifted up so must we of what ever form... be it catholic or jew..

    And to be lifted up we must fullfill the requirements...
    may the lord inspire you to post something that has come through communion..

  13. #27493
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post
    Also, people are not saying we are the finished work of Christ, if that were true we would be glorified, it is because of Christ's

    finished work that we are saved, there is no work we can add to what Jesus has already done so completely on our behalf,

    our job is to believe it and become a new creation in Him, the flesh is still there, but we have been spiritually reborn from above

    and

    now we have access to His grace which is His very essence that conforms us to His image.

    I know it can be so hard to see/understand what people are saying if one has been taught differently, I can only say that would you not prefer a life of peace and grace then a life striving in your own self-effort to put the old man down?
    did you miss the part of both et and dc declaring they are the done deal and the finished work in christ.. ?
    Meggido likes this.
    may the lord inspire you to post something that has come through communion..

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    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    I agree we can disconnect from grace, and Paul teaches over and over to stay connected by the renewing of our minds and remembering not to go back to self effort.

    But again the grace that saves when we first believe is the grace that gives us eternal life as a gift, that is different than abiding in grace, abiding in grace is not for salvation abiding is for having our life hid in Him.

    If we did not have His eternal life within us (His spiritual presence which is eternal) we could not abide anyway,

    The vine has to sprout the branch or graft it in FIRST before it can abide

    You need to see what that first event is.



    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBO43 View Post
    i think that you forget here that Gods grace is sufficient for you to not dissconnect your self as your friends say Gods grace is enabling for you to do Good works... i mean can you have it both ways ?...

    catholicism is only the venom.. meaning just as the moses was lifted up so must we of what ever form... be it catholic or jew..

    And to be lifted up we must fullfill the requirements...
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

  15. #27495
    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    I really think you are misunderstanding, misinterpreting what they, and I, and others are saying.

    The done deal is eternal life, we are not yet glorified, it is HIS perfection in us, His gift because we have believed in Him, that we cannot save ourselves, behold the lamb who takes away the sins of the world.

    Be like a child, dispense of all that you have learned and read what they are saying without a set of prior beliefs and you will see the Truth shining through.



    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBO43 View Post
    did you miss the part of both et and dc declaring they are the done deal and the finished work in christ.. ?
    stonesoffire likes this.
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

  16. #27496
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBO43 View Post
    i think that you forget here that Gods grace is sufficient for you to not dissconnect your self as your friends say Gods grace is enabling for you to do Good works... i mean can you have it both ways ?...

    catholicism is only the venom.. meaning just as the moses was lifted up so must we of what ever form... be it catholic or jew..

    And to be lifted up we must fullfill the requirements...
    oops i ment just as the snake was lifted up..
    may the lord inspire you to post something that has come through communion..

  17. #27497
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Today on tbn.. the preacher said the very thing that bites you has the cure to heal you to... so true ..

    how many times have you been left hurt coz someone never said they where sorry to you ?.. the minute they apolagized to you you felt reasured that they where still your friend ?..

    Some would say here well you should have forgiven them anyway.. noooo nooo noooo has nothing to do with that.. its to do with feeling a sence of loss of friendship and trust.......

    some would say what so you cant carry on being a friend..... noo nooo noooo has nothing to do with that either..


    its To DO with the fact that no matter what good path you take,,, the same snake keeps biting back.. and that snake is never going to heal you only destroy you......

    yup the enemy...


    Dont be suprised then when i tell you that our battle is not against flesh and blood but the dark forces at work....


    THIS IS A NOTHER WORKS WE MUST DO...
    may the lord inspire you to post something that has come through communion..

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    I would not recommend learning biblically sound doctrine from most of the preachers on TBN.....most are wolves out to fleece the sheep and pay for their TV time and million dollar mansions.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    So if Satan (aka the snake) bites you...does he then heal you?

    No what hurts you doesn't heal you. God's grace and forgiveness is what heals. God changes your heart and allows you to love the other person even if they hurt you. Your unexpected love and forgiveness heals that person and then your friendship can be restored.

    The snake did not heal you, the antivenom in the form of God's grace and love is what heals.
    dcontroversal likes this.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBO43 View Post
    oops i ment just as the snake was lifted up..
    As in Molech? The false god the Israelites worshipped by making an idol of the serpent staff that preformed the miracle of healing instead of worshipping God?

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