Not By Works

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Nov 12, 2015
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This is very interesting, so are you saying that Eve did have lust of the eyes before she ate the fruit, so sin was present before the actual act of disobeying God's command?
A man sins inside before he ever sins outwardly. This is why Jesus did not want us to go about the whole matter in the wrong way. He said about a clean outside - woe to you pharisees because you clean the outside of the cup while inside is filth. (my paraphrase).

When you take this along with His teaching on what murder is - that we have already done it, already done it! - when we have anger at our brother, this makes you see that it is not something you can do, to not sin. It's impossible for you, because the sin is IN YOU.

As a man thinks in his heart, so is he. It is only men who would say Eve did not sin until she performed an outward action. She sinned when she began to doubt that God had told the truth. This unbelief is what led to all the rest. God examines the thoughts and the hearts intent. So it is only men who look only at the outside.

The sin of Eve was unbelief.
Whatever is not of belief is sin.

There would only be one reason you would eat a cookie if I told you not to eat it because it had been poisoned and you would die if you ate it. The only reason you would eat it is if you truly believed that I didn't tell you the truth.

Eves sin was unbelief/mistrust about what God had said. All that happened after - the lust of her eyes, the outward disobedience - were all sprung from the sin of unbelief. If she hadn't sinned inwardly first in unbelief, none of the other things would have happened because if the inside of the cup is clean, the outside just is as well.

And here we are, trying hard to keep reading so that we will be careful with any areas of unbelief. To take care that our own hearts do not become evil and unbelieving.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Jesus christ comforms sin starts on the outside by his holy prayer .... he says this is how we should pray ... lord deliver us from temptation... in a nut shell eve did not seek Gods approval first... she fell into easy believism... ans so he clothed her and didnt do as he said he would and that was if you eat from this tree you will surely die..
 
Mar 7, 2016
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These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. It is called the New Covenant, Jimbo. It is superior to the old and has better promises. Christ bought me with His blood and made me free from the Law. Are you still under the old covenant law? I am not. I am purchased by the shed righteous blood of Christ my Lord, who gave Himself as an atoning sacrifice for my sins. Jesus invited me to find my rest in Him. Scriptures say that the law was a burden that nobody could bear, but you call it easy? The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
the bible new testement is superior in the sence that God beats the devil,,, nothing more nothing less...

Not one word of the law shall be left out you should meditate on it day and night i am the lord your God and will never forsake you or you leave you ,,,Joshua old testement,,,, grace in the old t.......
 
Mar 7, 2016
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So Jimbo for you salvation is eternal life?

For me salvation is renewed relationship with God. Therefore salvation is a current and future state.

For me eternal life without that relationship would be hell.
salvation is being crowned with a new incoruptable body.. as written by our father..
 
Dec 28, 2016
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salvation is being crowned with a new incoruptable body.. as written by our father..
That's the glorification part.

The forerunners are predestination, calling, and justification. All are inseparable, and all phases of this salvation will be experienced by the truly converted who have trusted in Christ alone for their salvation.

Glorification thus isn't the only true piece and definition of salvation. Nor is it a crown, as you say, as if a reward. You do err in your words and understanding. :)
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
salvation is being crowned with a new incoruptable body.. as written by our father..
Which verses are you referring to?

Getting new bodies is calls glorification but now you have me researching scriptures about salvation again...
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 | NIV
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Thank you for seeing my question and replying :)

I totally see what you are saying, and I do find it very intriguing, not sure that is the right word for it, however, there are definite connections there, but as you say some things are beyond us in this life.







i wasn't saying any of that, but i agree that is an interesting question: when did Eve sin? when she, being deceived, believed the serpent? when she doubted what Adam must have told her about what God said ((God gave the command not to eat of the tree, Gen. 2:17, before the Woman was formed, Gen. 2:21-22, so it's reasonable, though not certain, to assume that she only heard the command second-hand, from Adam))? or not until the moment she ate?

Christ tells us that sin is in the heart, before any action takes place. was sin already in Eve's heart when she "
saw that the fruit of the tree was good to for food and pleasing to the eye" ? this phrasing certainly does sound strikingly similar to "the lust of the flesh and of the eye" - and a person could argue that the Serpent had stirred up in her "the pride of life" by suggesting that eating it would make her "like God"

but even if we accept that sin was in her before she actually took from the tree, this analysis doesn't mean sin was in her before the Serpent deceived her. as life enters us through the hearing of the Word of God, sin and death may have entered her through hearing, and receiving, the words of the Evil One.

i don't know. these things are beyond me. what i've written here isn't necessarily what i believe is the truth of what happened; it's only me '
thinking out loud' about them. i didn't mean to make the implications you gathered from what i said, but i'm not able to say for sure that they aren't true.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Yes I agree, and it makes perfect scriptural sense, I had not really thought about what was in Eve's heart....I have enough problems with my own...LOL

A man sins inside before he ever sins outwardly. This is why Jesus did not want us to go about the whole matter in the wrong way. He said about a clean outside - woe to you pharisees because you clean the outside of the cup while inside is filth. (my paraphrase).

When you take this along with His teaching on what murder is - that we have already done it, already done it! - when we have anger at our brother, this makes you see that it is not something you can do, to not sin. It's impossible for you, because the sin is IN YOU.

As a man thinks in his heart, so is he. It is only men who would say Eve did not sin until she performed an outward action. She sinned when she began to doubt that God had told the truth. This unbelief is what led to all the rest. God examines the thoughts and the hearts intent. So it is only men who look only at the outside.

The sin of Eve was unbelief.
Whatever is not of belief is sin.

There would only be one reason you would eat a cookie if I told you not to eat it because it had been poisoned and you would die if you ate it. The only reason you would eat it is if you truly believed that I didn't tell you the truth.

Eves sin was unbelief/mistrust about what God had said. All that happened after - the lust of her eyes, the outward disobedience - were all sprung from the sin of unbelief. If she hadn't sinned inwardly first in unbelief, none of the other things would have happened because if the inside of the cup is clean, the outside just is as well.

And here we are, trying hard to keep reading so that we will be careful with any areas of unbelief. To take care that our own hearts do not become evil and unbelieving.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Jesus christ comforms sin starts on the outside by his holy prayer .... he says this is how we should pray ... lord deliver us from temptation... in a nut shell eve did not seek Gods approval first... she fell into easy believism... ans so he clothed her and didnt do as he said he would and that was if you eat from this tree you will surely die..
Hi Jimbo.
How you doing ?

Can I ask you how you have come to the conclusion that Eve fell into easy believeism and also what about Adam?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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i wasn't saying any of that, but i agree that is an interesting question: when did Eve sin? when she, being deceived, believed the serpent? when she doubted what Adam must have told her about what God said ((God gave the command not to eat of the tree, Gen. 2:17, before the Woman was formed, Gen. 2:21-22, so it's reasonable, though not certain, to assume that she only heard the command second-hand, from Adam))? or not until the moment she ate?

Christ tells us that sin is in the heart, before any action takes place. was sin already in Eve's heart when she "
saw that the fruit of the tree was good to for food and pleasing to the eye" ? this phrasing certainly does sound strikingly similar to "the lust of the flesh and of the eye" - and a person could argue that the Serpent had stirred up in her "the pride of life" by suggesting that eating it would make her "like God"

but even if we accept that sin was in her before she actually took from the tree, this analysis doesn't mean sin was in her before the Serpent deceived her. as life enters us through the hearing of the Word of God, sin and death may have entered her through hearing, and receiving, the words of the Evil One.

i don't know. these things are beyond me. what i've written here isn't necessarily what i believe is the truth of what happened; it's only me '
thinking out loud' about them. i didn't mean to make the implications you gathered from what i said, but i'm not able to say for sure that they aren't true.
Bummer you beat me to it again as I pondered my response:cool:

Good post again
 
Mar 7, 2016
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1 Corinthians 6:9-10 | NIV
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age
so why wont all people recieve it.. ?
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Hi Jimbo.
How you doing ?

Can I ask you how you have come to the conclusion that Eve fell into easy believeism and also what about Adam?
need i say ? wasnt adam clothed too.. of course adam fell into easy believism..
 
W

willybob

Guest
Yes except the little red hen only shared with her chicks after doing all the work, Jesus has called ALL men and women to partake of His finished work.

His love is not dependent on us loving Him, He loves us First and therefore calls all to believe in and partake of the fruits of His labour
love is a mutual work between two parties and can only be achieved by both working together in covenant, and is not possible by any other means...did deep and build upon the truth... relationship
 
Dec 12, 2013
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when Jesus rules this world he will only need love not a rod. this is forcing your rule dc not having patience or empathy do you know what that means ?
I suggest you study the word for once in your life and post truth instead of opinion....the bible is clear about Jesus ruling from the throne of David with a ROD OF IRON!!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Wow dcon, thank you so much for drawing peoples attention to truth and this error around what Christ accomplished.

I so love the way you keep truth (the gospel) simple and to the point, you see so well when someone diverts from the gospel message
It is not that difficult when you have one who denies the imputed righteousness of Christ, pushes a sinless perfectionist dogma while denying the whole scope of what the blood of Christ actually accomplishes......just another twist on the dogma embraced and pushed by the Pharisee of old.....a modern lemon twist dogma.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Also, people are not saying we are the finished work of Christ, if that were true we would be glorified, it is because of Christ's

finished work that we are saved, there is no work we can add to what Jesus has already done so completely on our behalf,

our job is to believe it and become a new creation in Him, the flesh is still there, but we have been spiritually reborn from above

and

now we have access to His grace which is His very essence that conforms us to His image.

I know it can be so hard to see/understand what people are saying if one has been taught differently, I can only say that would you not prefer a life of peace and grace then a life striving in your own self-effort to put the old man down?
It is interesting.....how many deny the PAST TENSE application of savED, jistifiED, sanctifiED and sealED in Christ......as well as verb tense which clearly sets forth a present CONTINUING RESULT from a PAST COMPLETED ACTION.....

We are saved to the UTTERMOST and KEPT by the POWER OF GOD.....their god (the workers for) must be as weak as....!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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As in Molech? The false god the Israelites worshipped by making an idol of the serpent staff that preformed the miracle of healing instead of worshipping God?
As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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This is very interesting, so are you saying that Eve did have lust of the eyes before she ate the fruit, so sin was present before the actual act of disobeying God's command?
Lust in and of itself is not the sin, but when lust conceives it brings brings forth sin....so in a round about way sin is the progeny of lust....the lust of the eyes, flesh and pride of life.....it is what we do with said lust that determine the outcome.....

Imagine Jesus...tempted 40 days BEFORE the account of Matthew 4.....he would have been starving and how good would a nice, hot, steaming loaf of bread been....all chewy, and hot and fresh.....MAN shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.....we would have been burping bread before the cows came home and the Roosters crowed..... ;) Thank God for his faithfulness