Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
It is highly doubtful those who hold such a high opinion of self, while holding contempt for others have ever had a transforming encounter with Christ. To meet Christ, and have a transforming encounter is to ever be acquainted with ones own personal wickedness.
Amen...just like Paul......from the

a. Least of the Apostles to the
b. Least of the saints to the
c. Number one chief sinner among men

The more time one spends with Christ the more wicked they see themselves in the flesh!
 
Last edited:

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
That is true Dcon. And you are standing firmly on the rock and not being moved.

We cannot ever grow into the Sons of God that God has allotted for us if we think we will be thrown away for the failures we have along the way.

The foundation of a building has to be strong and secure.
.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Amen...just like Paul......from the

a. Least of the Apostles to the
b. Least of the saints to the
c. Number one chief sinner among men

The more time lne spends with Christ the more wicked they see themselves in the flesh!
The next step in the building on the foundation in this growth as Sons of God, is to know we are Spirit, and not flesh Dcon. Here is where Meggido is getting frustrated. He knows this step, and wants others to know it too.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

We have the Spirit of Christ now by being born again. So we now identify with Jesus, rather than with the old man. The old man died with Jesus, and we now will learn to walk in resurrection life.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
927
113
To view salvation as losable and that which must be maintained by works not only starts with error, but leads deeper into error
That deeper error is that someone is trying to bewitched believers from obeying the truth and the truth is evidently set forth by Christ when He died on the Calvary. Praise God we now have the victory in Christ! we are redeemed by the blood of Christ! Amen! God bless!

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
I said he WASN'T teaching works salvation. How did you not see what I wrote?
I saw what you wrote and here it is:

How can Peter tell the crowd to 'save themselves' but not be teaching a 'works save' gospel?
You stated the same concerning Paul. Lol all you wish but I've completely understood what you wrote and your contradictory statements. You've also been given ample evidence that your interpretation of Acts 2:40 is incorrect but of course you're going to overlook that and carry on in error.

You will receive absolutely no correction nor are you capable of admitting your own words and contradictions. I'd say man up but that looks impossible for you to accomplish.

Good day. There is no need for further dialog with one who cannot admit his ways. You can get your last word in.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
The next step in the building on the foundation in this growth as Sons of God, is to know we are Spirit, and not flesh Dcon. Here is where Meggido is getting frustrated. He knows this step, and wants others to know it too.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

We have the Spirit of Christ now by being born again. So we now identify with Jesus, rather than with the old man. The old man died with Jesus, and we now will learn to walk in resurrection life.
Were are spiritually born again of incorruptable seed which is temporarily housed in a dead body of flesh.....Jesus...THE SUPREME EXAMPLE said it best....the SPIRIT IS INDEED WILLING BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK......I will not ignore the words of Jesus and or Paul in favor of any man's opinion regardless of how loud he barks........ ;)
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
God calls us to walk with the Spirit not be carnal minded. We start out flesh minded, but as our mind is renewed we grow in being lead by His Spirit.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
God calls us to walk with the Spirit not be carnal minded. We start out flesh minded, but as our mind is renewed we grow in being lead by His Spirit.
Amen bro...morning and evening...In Australia right now..8 pm Friday night
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,821
8,596
113
I have to say I am genuinely perplexed by this debate about duality.

On the one hand, I still stumble and sin, and therefore am I not a sinner who is constantly being washed by the Blood of Christ?

On the other hand, I understand what posters like Megiddo and Stone is saying. I don't want to, nor do I believe I should, regard myself as a sinner. And I believe my greatest Spiritual growth happens when I don't regard myself as a sinner, yet I still sin.

I just praise God with all my heart that BOTH hands realize that it is by the Blood of Christ ALONE I am saved.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
This is so blind. Only the good soil is fruitful, the rest are doomed to destruction.
The whole point of the parable of the seed and the sower was to show this.

You have to actually not read Jesus's words to come with a different meaning. It demonstrates
the heresy that so easily is just accepted without seeing the poison it represents, no matter how
nice the preacher appears to be, Jesus is the authority not the preacher.
They have no discernment, therefore they can't see anything.

Their delusion won't let them use commentaries that's 150 yrs old that's tried & true.

Ironically, sinners never saved can read those commentaries & make some sense out of it.

It's the delusion that turns their understanding totally off.

Originally Posted by UnderGrace

Yes, also we forget that Jesus is the sower, and He loves all types of soil, so much so that He is willing to sow seed on any type of ground.

A typical farmer would never really plant his seed on anything but good soil.

But then Jesus is anything but a typical farmer :)
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
I have to say I am genuinely perplexed by this debate about duality.

On the one hand, I still stumble and sin, and therefore am I not a sinner who is constantly being washed by the Blood of Christ?

On the other hand, I understand what posters like Megiddo and Stone is saying. I don't want to, nor do I believe I should, regard myself as a sinner. And I believe my greatest Spiritual growth happens when I don't regard myself as a sinner, yet I still sin.

I just praise God with all my heart that BOTH hands realize that it is by the Blood of Christ ALONE I am saved.
There is a profound tension between seeing where we are and were we can be.

We remember our failures, God says once we repent of them and resolve them He
does not.

We always expect failure and stumbling, He does not.
We believe because it feels like we are balancing and it is hard to stay ok and upright,
for the Lord it is who He is.

Can we walk knowing we are Holy, pure and righteous, understanding we are cleansed
and made clean, while perceiving it is still a struggle and will probably always be so.

The hypocracy comes not when we are fighting to stay as God has made us, but when
we compromise and appear one way but behave in sin and become resigned to this
reality rather than claim the inheritence He has brought us.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
Not a fan of Hillsong, but that you ""realized" singing is the faith of some, not how they live" merely shows you to be the Luke 18:9 man and that you hold disdain for others and think yourself righteous.
You're incorrect.

Many at Hillsong is like this. They can't even worship without music.

They don't worship God, but the feeling the music produces.

One of the proofs of this is when they pray(if they pray), there's no single time the Spirit moves during prayer only where worship begins. None.

In the old Pentecostal church, prayer is one of the times when worship would break out. Another would be at the END of the music.

True worship doesn't need a kickstarter song or a crank up of the volume. The Holy Spirit needs no help.

It's flesh that needs motivating, & pumping up the flesh isn't spiritual at all.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
I said he WASN'T teaching works salvation. How did you not see what I wrote?



Well, you would think everyone can see what I wrote, lol. But it's clear that you and those who are liked your post did not. Here's one place where I said Peter is not teaching a works gospel. The bold parts are bold in the original post:

As you can plainly see (I think, lol), I not only didn't say Peter was teaching a works gospel, I said he was not. How did you miss my plain, bold words?
He didn't miss them. It was a deliberate twist on your words.

"You will know them by their fruits" is the repetitious message that needs to ring out loud & clear.

A true christian doesn't use techniques, methods, & psychology to win their argument. They have the anointing.

Flesh is as flesh does.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
Phart

The reason we are divided on these forums is because we are learning to separate day from night, just like in the beginning. But, it's not by our wisdom. Our wisdom is earthly, and the Word is heavenly. We are becoming the head, and not the tail.

Let me explain. God separated light from darkness. Light is illumination in Hebrew. Night in Hebrew is a twist away from light.

So in our communication with each other, we are separating in the same manner.

The problem arises when we fail to think in the mind of Christ, that we are of one Spirit, and still think as a fleshly earthy man.

Thats where agape should rise out of our "midst" or of our being. Be ing in Him.

We all are at different levels of "the mind of Christ" and friction starts when we see each other as the enemy, and not the enemy as lies opposite the truth found in scriptures.

We have to allow Holy Spirit to work salvation out in us, or we are just beating against the wind.

So it's up to each of us for peace to reign. It has to come from walking in peace first in our life so we are fit for the ministry of reconciliation to the world and to one another.

This came to me as I was awakened from sleep. And am not bragging, I've just learned to be quiet and listen.
The division is simpler than that.

It's as simple as light & darkness.

Always has been.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,518
1,045
113
Australia
I see generally that everyone agrees that it is Faith that saves not our works.
"Our works can't save" is what most agree on (i haven't read all that has been said) but some are saying works mean nothing and others are saying works reveil or show what faith you have.

Can you take one verse and build a doctrine on that verse alone?
The bible as a whole tells me that you can't seperate faith and works.

Faith alone saves and faith comes first but it is this faith that enables God to work in us.

Jam 2.20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Rom 6.15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
1 John 5.3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

As a whole the bible teaches me that i can't do it myself, but by faith in Jesus i can (by His Spirit) do good works.
Plainly put my faith results in works.
By their fruits(actions, words, deeds, works) you will know them.

Matt 7.16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Jam 2.18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Depending who is being written to makes all the difference. Paul or James or Jesus they need to be read in context.

Real faith connects us to the source of good works. No works = no real faith.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
You're incorrect.

Many at Hillsong is like this. They can't even worship without music.

They don't worship God, but the feeling the music produces.

One of the proofs of this is when they pray(if they pray), there's no single time the Spirit moves during prayer only where worship begins. None.

In the old Pentecostal church, prayer is one of the times when worship would break out. Another would be at the END of the music.

True worship doesn't need a kickstarter song or a crank up of the volume. The Holy Spirit needs no help.

It's flesh that needs motivating, & pumping up the flesh isn't spiritual at all.
Let me reiterate I am not a fan of Hillsong for various reasons, one being its adherence to false doctrines such as WoF teachings (well, at least some within it) unbiblical lyrics, sensual music &c.

But where we differ is that I don't know that none belonging to it live for the LORD. Yet, you and other Luke 18:9 people seem to know all of this, and hold contempt for others, while praising yourselves, or at the least never really accepting your own manifestations on here of unChrist like behavior.

In fact, Stephen63, your entire walk and mantra as seen on here is to express your disdain for many many people. You're filled with it, and it is a practice of yours, daily.

That being true, you would serve yourself well to be concerned more over your fruit than that of a worship band of which you've condemned every single member. Warning others of their fallacies is one thing, but condemning the entire group is another.

You won't stand in judgment of them on that Day, Christ will, and you have much more to be concerned about with yourself.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
It is highly doubtful those who hold such a high opinion of self, while holding contempt for others have ever had a transforming encounter with Christ. To meet Christ, and have a transforming encounter is to ever be acquainted with ones own personal wickedness.
They do it.

Then they say the others are doing it.

It's called projection. Look it up.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
He didn't miss them. It was a deliberate twist on your words.

"You will know them by their fruits" is the repetitious message that needs to ring out loud & clear.

A true christian doesn't use techniques, methods, & psychology to win their argument. They have the anointing.

Flesh is as flesh does.
I've twisted exactly none of his words, directly quoted him, and showed his contradictory statements and fallacious interpretations.

But you're not interested in that, due to your flesh you're more concerned with sowing discord and causing division, even if it means conveniently leaving out the facts.

Any honest person walking with God can see that your accusations are false and see that my posts and comments on his statements are accurate.

But you, like him, can have the last word.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I have to say I am genuinely perplexed by this debate about duality.

On the one hand, I still stumble and sin, and therefore am I not a sinner who is constantly being washed by the Blood of Christ?

On the other hand, I understand what posters like Megiddo and Stone is saying. I don't want to, nor do I believe I should, regard myself as a sinner. And I believe my greatest Spiritual growth happens when I don't regard myself as a sinner, yet I still sin.

I just praise God with all my heart that BOTH hands realize that it is by the Blood of Christ ALONE I am saved.

I think we must put it in context,

1. If i am thinking about self, and my position in Christ, I have to see myself as redeemed, not as a sinner,

2. If we discussing salvation with a person and we are discussing our righteousness compared with the righteousness God demands, we have t admit even we do not live up to at standard, no one does, that's why we need grace, even more important, if we are discussing with someone who thinks we can lose salvation based on how well we obey, again, we have to discuss how we are still sinners, and still fall short.

Most of the discussions in CC fall under number 2, and that cases a lot of problems for some people. Who think we are not seeing ourselves as redeeme, but instead as sinners,

 
P

PHart

Guest
I saw what you wrote and here it is:



You stated the same concerning Paul. Lol all you wish but I've completely understood what you wrote and your contradictory statements. You've also been given ample evidence that your interpretation of Acts 2:40 is incorrect but of course you're going to overlook that and carry on in error.

You will receive absolutely no correction nor are you capable of admitting your own words and contradictions. I'd say man up but that looks impossible for you to accomplish.

Good day. There is no need for further dialog with one who cannot admit his ways. You can get your last word in.
I showed you my exact words where I said I was not saying Peter and Paul were teaching a works gospel. You didn't catch it the first time around. Hey, it happens. All you have to do is acknowledge that you missed it. I pointed out your error of understanding, and if you listen I have 'won a brother' (Matthew 18:15).

Show me that I have won a brother and just admit you misunderstood my post. I'll respect you for it, not think less of you.