Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0

who is avoiding the word work? Not me That is you all continuing to falsly accuse me, I have never discounted works.

As I said, What I discount is that works save us, in any shape or form, nor do they maintain salvation as Fran wants to try to suggest.

What do I believe.

Those of faith WILL OBEY GOD
Those of faith OBEY His command
Those of faith do work
Those of faith will not be perfect. but they will not live as they did before they become a person of true living faith.

Living faith does not fail, it works, it does not fade away, Noah had faith for over 100 years. because his faith was real. Abraham had faith before he saw Gods promises come true, because he had a living faith. Daniel had faith while being a slave to babylon, knowing he would never return to his homeland. because he had a living faith.

one must ask themselves. If we (people like me) believe living faiht works, then why do people like you keep attacking us as people who hate work?
Oh.
So you DO hate work!!!
Another post to store away.

No wonder you simply cannot state the truth.
You don't believe the truth.

The cat is out of the bag.
THIRD one!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Glory to the Almighty.
You and Fran can do your best to obey God all day ever day, You will still not be worthy of eternal life.

Nor will you maintain your salvation by any of those works..

That is what I see that seperates us,

I work because I am saved, because I have been empowered By God to do so. and because of it, I will never live as before. because I have been made a new creature.

I know Fran works to maintain her salvation, unless she has changed her view in the past two weeks. and it appears you do to.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
They where given the right to the inheritance because they believed in his name. John says we were giiven that right because

1. we received him
2. We believed in his name (trusted him)

No work was involved.

We received the inheritance because we heard the word of truth the gospel of our salvation, and entrusted our life to it (eph 1: 13- 14)

Of course, Since we were saved, Since we were adopted. Since we were made (not make ourselves) children of God, We also obeyed him, because we loved him.

I would recommend we try not to take the cart before the horse. Thats dangerous.

edit how do we overcome?

1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.


It is our faith, it is our new birth that causes us to overcome, not our work. or our will.
Loveme1 simply posted the word of God.
So, you're arguing with God?

Incredible.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63

who is avoiding the word work? Not me That is you all continuing to falsly accuse me, I have never discounted works.

As I said, What I discount is that works save us, in any shape or form, nor do they maintain salvation as Fran wants to try to suggest.

What do I believe.

Those of faith WILL OBEY GOD
Those of faith OBEY His command
Those of faith do work
Those of faith will not be perfect. but they will not live as they did before they become a person of true living faith.

Living faith does not fail, it works, it does not fade away, Noah had faith for over 100 years. because his faith was real. Abraham had faith before he saw Gods promises come true, because he had a living faith. Daniel had faith while being a slave to babylon, knowing he would never return to his homeland. because he had a living faith.

one must ask themselves. If we (people like me) believe living faiht works, then why do people like you keep attacking us as people who hate work?
You said eternal life is a reward given to those of Faith evident by their work.. you even wrote a list of to do in order to recieve ..

I have shared that Faith without work is dead and such things according to scripture...


You sought to tell me what I believed and say I work for my eternal life.... and such...

My work will be deemed worthy or not because it is evidence of my Faith... you assumed I thought my works would save me... rather than see that I believed the Messiah who said reward and works.. which He will decide.

Exalting myself to say I'm Good I deserve this or I'm worthy by my works was never in my intent.. no.. I was accused and then many jump on... I believe what is written.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
What it all boils down to is this - IMO :

Some people/denominations because of their church teachings believe that our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they are baby Christians and haven't walked by the spirit in order to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.

This is thought despite the work of Christ in obtaining eternal redemption for us by His blood. Heb. 9:12

Some extreme groups believe that if you don't follow the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament - you are sinning and dis-obeying God and of course the outcome again is - our loving Father throwing us into the lake of fire.

Some extreme in another group say that if we don't do good works ( whatever their definition of good works is along with how many are needed in order to remain saved..etc ) - we need to do these good works "in order to keep saved". Which of course is an anti-Christ and anti-the gospel belief system and mindset.

They read every warning scripture as God sending these ones to hell now because they don't experience the life of Christ fully in this earth.

We are learning how to live by the life of Another which is Christ in us. We have this treasure in an earthen vessel and this is why we need our minds renewed to the truths of Christ's finished work so that we can walk in our inheritance which is ours in Christ.

Others believe that we are saved by grace through faith when we heard the message of Christ just like Paul said. That He who started a "good work" in us will finished it and present us spotless and blameless in His sight because of His work alone on the cross and resurrection.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvationhaving also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,



Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Only "security" will provide the proper nutrients for "maturity" for us to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am still waiting, and since I can not see what everyone is posting

has anyone answered my question as to why we preach those saved will work mighty works, as true children of God, yet we are attacked as people who hate the word work?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You said eternal life is a reward given to those of Faith evident by their work.. you even wrote a list of to do in order to recieve ..

No I did not say they had to do those things in order to receive them, I said that was our reward for doing them. Forward thinking of what we have in Christ is what gets us to do good works, Not legalism,


I have shared that Faith without work is dead and such things according to scripture...

And I have agreed, Living faith works, it is not dead. No one who is a hearer only and not a doer has faith, or has ever been saved.



You sought to tell me what I believed and say I work for my eternal life.... and such...
You said that yourself. did you not? You have been asked that by many people. if you did not believe that ,why dod you not tell them no you do not work for that.

My work will be deemed worthy or not because it is evidence of my Faith... you assumed I thought my works would save me... rather than see that I believed the Messiah who said reward and works.. which He will decide.
Yu said eternal life (salvation) is earned by works, those are your words not mine..

Yes God will reward works, by gold silver precious stones, wood hay and straw, And he also said he would give us crowns.

But never did he say we would earn salvation or eternal life. We can not earn life, we have earned, are earning and will always until we are glorified) earn death.

Exalting myself to say I'm Good I deserve this or I'm worthy by my works was never in my intent.. no.. I was accused and then many jump on... I believe what is written.
then answer question, do you believe we must work to maintain salvation and earn eternal life or not?

Yes or no.. an answer would solve all the so called accusations you say are thrown at you.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
You and Fran can do your best to obey God all day ever day, You will still not be worthy of eternal life.

Nor will you maintain your salvation by any of those works..

That is what I see that seperates us,

I work because I am saved, because I have been empowered By God to do so. and because of it, I will never live as before. because I have been made a new creature.

I know Fran works to maintain her salvation, unless she has changed her view in the past two weeks. and it appears you do to.
How does one change their view when they know the truth??
I will never change my view.

So here's what you've said...

You are saved because you DONT do works.
I am not saved because I DO works.

You are a new creature because you don't do works.
I am not a new creature because I DO works.

Huh???

I do think you're very confused.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
They where given the right to the inheritance because they believed in his name. John says we were giiven that right because

1. we received him
2. We believed in his name (trusted him)

No work was involved.

We received the inheritance because we heard the word of truth the gospel of our salvation, and entrusted our life to it (eph 1: 13- 14)

Of course, Since we were saved, Since we were adopted. Since we were made (not make ourselves) children of God, We also obeyed him, because we loved him.

I would recommend we try not to take the cart before the horse. Thats dangerous.

edit how do we overcome?

1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.


It is our faith, it is our new birth that causes us to overcome, not our work. or our will.

Stop rejecting Truth.. I believe the Messiah.. He is our Teacher.

The King did not say any of what you share.. all verses are True but none in place of but each affirming each and every throughout.

So we must decipher the Kings teaching to mean what you declare? Wake up.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0

No I did not say they had to do those things in order to receive them, I said that was our reward for doing them. Forward thinking of what we have in Christ is what gets us to do good works, Not legalism,




And I have agreed, Living faith works, it is not dead. No one who is a hearer only and not a doer has faith, or has ever been saved.





You said that yourself. did you not? You have been asked that by many people. if you did not believe that ,why dod you not tell them no you do not work for that.


Yu said eternal life (salvation) is earned by works, those are your words not mine..

Yes God will reward works, by gold silver precious stones, wood hay and straw, And he also said he would give us crowns.

But never did he say we would earn salvation or eternal life. We can not earn life, we have earned, are earning and will always until we are glorified) earn death.



then answer question, do you believe we must work to maintain salvation and earn eternal life or not?

Yes or no.. an answer would solve all the so called accusations you say are thrown at you.
Why would loveme1 find it necessary to answer your question just to stop unwarranted accusations from
Persons who claim to be Christian?

Is that an ultimatum??

How about YOU answer this question,. Which I asked 500 pages ago.

Do you believe it's necessary AFTER SALVATION to obey God and do good works?
Yes or No.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
You and Fran can do your best to obey God all day ever day, You will still not be worthy of eternal life.

Nor will you maintain your salvation by any of those works..

That is what I see that seperates us,

I work because I am saved, because I have been empowered By God to do so. and because of it, I will never live as before. because I have been made a new creature.

I know Fran works to maintain her salvation, unless she has changed her view in the past two weeks. and it appears you do to.
So.. what do you propose that we follow you? Stop being ridiculous..

If we are guilty of trying to obey GOD all day and everyday then Amazing Grace... because we are His.

In Spirit and Truth let us love and obey because He loved us first.. Amazing Grace indeed.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
I am still waiting, and since I can not see what everyone is posting

has anyone answered my question as to why we preach those saved will work mighty works, as true children of God, yet we are attacked as people who hate the word work?
Ask the King.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
i feel like most the disputes here are semantics
or fruitless personal arguments ...

(most)
I used to believe the same thing, NNM, until I found out many of these "personal arguments" were all about the same thing in a nutshell.

Have you ever notice most arguing on the same side are people of different belief systems?

They will argue together for their singular "cause", but never over their doctrines that are widely different.

Strange, isn't it?
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
You and Fran can do your best to obey God all day ever day, You will still not be worthy of eternal life.

Nor will you maintain your salvation by any of those works..

That is what I see that seperates us,

I work because I am saved, because I have been empowered By God to do so. and because of it, I will never live as before. because I have been made a new creature.

I know Fran works to maintain her salvation, unless she has changed her view in the past two weeks. and it appears you do to.
Oh.
And regarding your first sentence..

You said that neither loveme1 or myself will be worthy of eternal life for obeying God all day every day.

So, we're going to hell for obeying God??

Huh???

See. You really are totally confused.
It's the other way around...

One goes to the hot place if they Don't obey God.
Doesn't this make more sense to you?
I hope so.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to joefizz again.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
I used to believe the same thing, NNM, until I found out many of these "personal arguments" were all about the same thing in a nutshell.

Have you ever notice most arguing on the same side are people of different belief systems?

They will argue together for their singular "cause", but never over their doctrines that are widely different.

Strange, isn't it?
beliefs aside

im speaking of the false accusations
dirt flinging
spiteful words
disgusting cowardly passive aggression

self image bleeding through every word...

a DESIRE to argue

with zero intention do act as God intends his children to act


no desire to help a brother a sister a neighbor or an enemy

only desire to be correct
to be the winner
to esteem themself


its not of God


the other stuff i see

is discussions... which are fine

and semantics
... like when someone THOUGHT i was calvinist because i said i was called and took it back

or when someone THOUGHT i was charasmatic and took it back and said sorry even...

i see that too
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
I love my GOD and our Lord and Saviour because they loved me first.. Righteous, Merciful, Gracious, Everlasting, long suffering, kind, Just, Faithful and Amazing.. i can not declare how great they are enough.. it is a blessing to of been given life to learn these wonderful things.. If the King deems me worthy then I will sing praises for eternity.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
I used to believe the same thing, NNM, until I found out many of these "personal arguments" were all about the same thing in a nutshell.

Have you ever notice most arguing on the same side are people of different belief systems?

They will argue together for their singular "cause", but never over their doctrines that are widely different.

Strange, isn't it?
Lemme add this for balance, Mcgee..... There's some on the "other side" that likes to keep the argument going, too.

Those will say works straightway without explanation, making "our" whole position look like that.

It makes it easy for the first side to cry at us, "you say it's all about works".

I'd say that's quite peculiar, wouldn't you?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Stop rejecting Truth.. I believe the Messiah.. He is our Teacher.

The King did not say any of what you share.. all verses are True but none in place of but each affirming each and every throughout.

So we must decipher the Kings teaching to mean what you declare? Wake up.
Wake up?

lol. I woke up years ago.

I shared what the king said, Unless you think the words of John and others that I shared are not true.

again, I leave you with the words of John.

How do we overcome? By works? No by faith


1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

by the way, You have not refuted one thing I have said, all you continue to do is say I am not listening to Jesus. even though I have showed multiple times now I listen to jesus every word.

That is not a way to have a polite discussion or even a disagreement, If you disagree with me, show me where I am wrong,