Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,061
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#3,061
slave said:
Salvation is the freedom for opportunity....yes, you have been made innocent once more thru Jesus, what is the opportunity for you? Holiness? or self-preservation? What is your real relationship to God? How would you describe it? How is Jesus transforming you?
Click to expand...
a. We have been saved to serve and bring glory to God (JESUS through us by faith doing the works)
b. Be ye holy for I am holy.....(Christ through us as a living sacrifice)
c. A son of God....very faithful and steadfast on somethings, and weak in others....we all have thorns in the flesh which keep us humble
d. I am changed outwardly because of the change inwardly....by the transformation of the mind dia the word of God (Romans 12:1-2)

AGAIN.....I have never said and or stated or implied that we are not to grow, mature, transform and serve by faith which produces works and or fruit....the contention is and seems to always be that many will say that without works one cannot be saved, keep salvation and or remain saved.....Works do not save, keep saved and or help one be saved....the following is absolutely true....

FAITH will always produce works (even if only a cup of cold water in the name of JESUS will not go unnoticed and or unrewarded)

WORKS will never produce faith EVER because, works are the result of the faith and salvation one already possesses.....
 
Seohce

Seohce

Senior Member
#3,062
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
#3,062
dcontroversal said:
a. We have been saved to serve and bring glory to God (JESUS through us by faith doing the works)
b. Be ye holy for I am holy.....(Christ through us as a living sacrifice)
c. A son of God....very faithful and steadfast on somethings, and weak in others....we all have thorns in the flesh which keep us humble
d. I am changed outwardly because of the change inwardly....by the transformation of the mind dia the word of God (Romans 12:1-2)

AGAIN.....I have never said and or stated or implied that we are not to grow, mature, transform and serve by faith which produces works and or fruit....the contention is and seems to always be that many will say that without works one cannot be saved, keep salvation and or remain saved.....Works do not save, keep saved and or help one be saved....the following is absolutely true....

FAITH will always produce works (even if only a cup of cold water in the name of JESUS will not go unnoticed and or unrewarded)

WORKS will never produce faith EVER because, works are the result of the faith and salvation one already possesses.....
Click to expand...
1 Corinthians 12:4-6 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
 
Seohce

Seohce

Senior Member
#3,063
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
#3,063
Seohce said:
1 Corinthians 12:4-6 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
Click to expand...
We are not just spectators. We were born again to be alive and to do God's work here on earth. We are already dead in sin. We are not the living dead as some call it. We are not zombies but rather a royal priesthood in service to God.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,064
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#3,064
Seohce said:
We are not just spectators. We were born again to be alive and to do God's work here on earth. We are already dead in sin. We are not the living dead as some call it. We are not zombies but rather a royal priesthood in service to God.
Click to expand...

Obviously....no one has said that nor implied that.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

Banned
#3,065
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
#3,065
So it just occured to me that every man shall die,,,,,,,,,,,, and everyman ort to be on the watchtower...

Because the enemy will sneek in like a thief in the night...

For it is written that in the last days the enemy will do his worst..

And on that day everyman will die.. where we will meet our maker. :) untill we meet again shalom..
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,066
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#3,066
JIMBO43 said:
So it just occured to me that every man shall die,,,,,,,,,,,, and everyman ort to be on the watchtower...

Because the enemy will sneek in like a thief in the night...

For it is written that in the last days the enemy will do his worst..

And on that day everyman will die.. where we will meet our maker. :) untill we meet again shalom..
Click to expand...
The we which are ALIVE AND REMAIN unto the coming of the LORD......NOT all will die....!
 
Seohce

Seohce

Senior Member
#3,068
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
#3,068
dcontroversal said:
Obviously....no one has said that nor implied that.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Complete Jewish Bible Galatians 2:20 When the Messiah was executed on the stake as a criminal, I was too; so that my PROUD EGO no longer lives. But the Messiah lives in me, and the life I now live in my body I live by the same trusting faithfulness that the Son of God had, who loved me and gave himself up for me.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,069
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#3,069
Seohce said:
Complete Jewish Bible Galatians 2:20 When the Messiah was executed on the stake as a criminal, I was too; so that my PROUD EGO no longer lives. But the Messiah lives in me, and the life I now live in my body I live by the same trusting faithfulness that the Son of God had, who loved me and gave himself up for me.
Click to expand...
For sure......and the works are the result of Christ in us by faith......one who has not been saved biblically and already in the VINE<--they will never produce fruit or works...ever!
 
Seohce

Seohce

Senior Member
#3,070
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
#3,070
dcontroversal said:
For sure......and the works are the result of Christ in us by faith......one who has not been saved biblically and already in the VINE<--they will never produce fruit or works...ever!
Click to expand...
James 2:1,12-26 My brothers, practice the faith of our Lord Yeshua, the glorious Messiah, without showing favoritism. Keep speaking and acting like people who will be judged by a Torah which gives freedom. For judgment will be without mercy toward one who doesn’t show mercy; but mercy wins out over judgment. What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith but has no actions to prove it? Is such “faith” able to save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food, and someone says to him, “Shalom! Keep warm and eat hearty!” without giving him what he needs, what good does it do? Thus, faith by itself, unaccompanied by actions, is dead. But someone will say that you have faith and I have actions. Show me this faith of yours without the actions, and I will show you my faith by my actions! You believe that “God is one”? Good for you! The demons believe it too — the thought makes them shudder with fear! But, foolish fellow, do you want to be shown that such “faith” apart from actions is barren? Wasn’t Avraham avinu declared righteous because of actions when he offered up his son Yitz’chak on the altar? You see that his faith worked with his actions; by the actions the faith was made complete; and the passage of the Tanakh was fulfilled which says, “Avraham had faith in God, and it was credited to his account as righteousness.” He was even called God’s friend. You see that a person is declared righteous because of actions and not because of faith alone. Likewise, wasn’t Rachav the prostitute also declared righteous because of actions when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another route? Indeed, just as the body without a spirit is dead, so too faith without actions is dead.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,071
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#3,071
Seohce said:
James 2:1,12-26 My brothers, practice the faith of our Lord Yeshua, the glorious Messiah, without showing favoritism. Keep speaking and acting like people who will be judged by a Torah which gives freedom. For judgment will be without mercy toward one who doesn’t show mercy; but mercy wins out over judgment. What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith but has no actions to prove it? Is such “faith” able to save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food, and someone says to him, “Shalom! Keep warm and eat hearty!” without giving him what he needs, what good does it do? Thus, faith by itself, unaccompanied by actions, is dead. But someone will say that you have faith and I have actions. Show me this faith of yours without the actions, and I will show you my faith by my actions! You believe that “God is one”? Good for you! The demons believe it too — the thought makes them shudder with fear! But, foolish fellow, do you want to be shown that such “faith” apart from actions is barren? Wasn’t Avraham avinu declared righteous because of actions when he offered up his son Yitz’chak on the altar? You see that his faith worked with his actions; by the actions the faith was made complete; and the passage of the Tanakh was fulfilled which says, “Avraham had faith in God, and it was credited to his account as righteousness.” He was even called God’s friend. You see that a person is declared righteous because of actions and not because of faith alone. Likewise, wasn’t Rachav the prostitute also declared righteous because of actions when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another route? Indeed, just as the body without a spirit is dead, so too faith without actions is dead.
Click to expand...

Therefore we conclude a man is justified by FAITH without the works of the law....PAUL, who by the way wrote almost half of the N.T.

JAMES speaks of our faith being seen by MEN<--SHOW ME YOUR FAITH!

NO matter how many times one will quote JAMES it will NEVER equate to faith blended with works for salvation! EVER!
 
Seohce

Seohce

Senior Member
#3,072
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
#3,072
dcontroversal said:
Therefore we conclude a man is justified by FAITH without the works of the law....PAUL, who by the way wrote almost half of the N.T.

JAMES speaks of our faith being seen by MEN<--SHOW ME YOUR FAITH!

NO matter how many times one will quote JAMES it will NEVER equate to faith blended with works for salvation! EVER!
Click to expand...
Complete Jewish Bible Romans 8:7-11,13 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God’s Torah — indeed, it cannot. Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God. But you, you do not identify with your old nature but with the Spirit — provided the Spirit of God is living inside you, for anyone who doesn’t have the Spirit of the Messiah doesn’t belong to him. However, if the Messiah is in you, then, on the one hand, the body is dead because of sin; but, on the other hand, the Spirit is giving life because God considers you righteous. And if the Spirit of the One who raised Yeshua from the dead is living in you, then the One who raised the Messiah Yeshua from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit living in you. For if you live according to your old nature, you will certainly die; but if, by the Spirit, you keep putting to death the practices of the body, you will live.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,073
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#3,073
Seohce said:
Complete Jewish Bible Romans 8:7-11,13 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God’s Torah — indeed, it cannot. Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God. But you, you do not identify with your old nature but with the Spirit — provided the Spirit of God is living inside you, for anyone who doesn’t have the Spirit of the Messiah doesn’t belong to him. However, if the Messiah is in you, then, on the one hand, the body is dead because of sin; but, on the other hand, the Spirit is giving life because God considers you righteous. And if the Spirit of the One who raised Yeshua from the dead is living in you, then the One who raised the Messiah Yeshua from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit living in you. For if you live according to your old nature, you will certainly die; but if, by the Spirit, you keep putting to death the practices of the body, you will live.
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with my post.....do you think just throwing scriptures off the hip will change the truth or my mind....how about something applicable to the thread.....

LIKE....In the grace you are, having been saved by faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not of WORKS lest any man should boast....

PAUL said if he was going to glory, he would glory in the cross of Christ not self and his own works......!
 
Last edited:
Seohce

Seohce

Senior Member
#3,074
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
#3,074
dcontroversal said:
This has nothing to do with my post.....do you think just throwing scriptures off the hips will change the truth or my mind....how about something applicable to the thread.....

LIKE....In the grace you are, having been saved by faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not of WORKS lest any man should boast....

PAUL said if he was going to glory, he would glory in the cross of Christ not self and his own works......!
Click to expand...
James 1:17-27 Every good act of giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father who made the heavenly lights; with him there is neither variation nor darkness caused by turning. Having made his decision, he gave birth to us through a Word that can be relied upon, in order that we should be a kind of firstfruits of all that he created. Therefore, my dear brothers, let every person be quick to listen but slow to speak, slow to get angry; for a person’s anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness! So rid yourselves of all vulgarity and obvious evil, and receive meekly the Word implanted in you that can save your lives. Don’t deceive yourselves by only hearing what the Word says, but do it! For whoever hears the Word but doesn’t do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror, who looks at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But if a person looks closely into the perfect Torah, which gives freedom, and continues, becoming not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work it requires, then he will be blessed in what he does. Anyone who thinks he is religiously observant but does not control his tongue is deceiving himself, and his observance counts for nothing. The religious observance that God the Father considers pure and faultless is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being contaminated by the world. 2:1 My brothers, PRACTICE THE FAITH of our Lord Yeshua, the glorious Messiah, without showing favoritism.

New International Version 1984 Romans 3:4 Not at all! let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,075
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#3,075
Seohce said:
James 1:17-27 Every good act of giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father who made the heavenly lights; with him there is neither variation nor darkness caused by turning. Having made his decision, he gave birth to us through a Word that can be relied upon, in order that we should be a kind of firstfruits of all that he created. Therefore, my dear brothers, let every person be quick to listen but slow to speak, slow to get angry; for a person’s anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness! So rid yourselves of all vulgarity and obvious evil, and receive meekly the Word implanted in you that can save your lives. Don’t deceive yourselves by only hearing what the Word says, but do it! For whoever hears the Word but doesn’t do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror, who looks at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But if a person looks closely into the perfect Torah, which gives freedom, and continues, becoming not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work it requires, then he will be blessed in what he does. Anyone who thinks he is religiously observant but does not control his tongue is deceiving himself, and his observance counts for nothing. The religious observance that God the Father considers pure and faultless is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being contaminated by the world. 2:1 My brothers, PRACTICE THE FAITH of our Lord Yeshua, the glorious Messiah, without showing favoritism.

New International Version 1984 Romans 3:4 Not at all! let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
Click to expand...
Your last verse also has no bearing unless you include yourself....so, are you a liar? Because your subtle accusation has no bearing on this thread....how about something that has bearing like....

Not by WORKS of righteousness have we done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US......
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#3,076
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
927
113
#3,076
Seohce said:
James 1:17-27 Every good act of giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father who made the heavenly lights; with him there is neither variation nor darkness caused by turning. Having made his decision, he gave birth to us through a Word that can be relied upon, in order that we should be a kind of firstfruits of all that he created. Therefore, my dear brothers, let every person be quick to listen but slow to speak, slow to get angry; for a person’s anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness! So rid yourselves of all vulgarity and obvious evil, and receive meekly the Word implanted in you that can save your lives. Don’t deceive yourselves by only hearing what the Word says, but do it! For whoever hears the Word but doesn’t do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror, who looks at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But if a person looks closely into the perfect Torah, which gives freedom, and continues, becoming not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work it requires, then he will be blessed in what he does. Anyone who thinks he is religiously observant but does not control his tongue is deceiving himself, and his observance counts for nothing. The religious observance that God the Father considers pure and faultless is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being contaminated by the world. 2:1 My brothers, PRACTICE THE FAITH of our Lord Yeshua, the glorious Messiah, without showing favoritism.

New International Version 1984 Romans 3:4 Not at all! let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
Click to expand...
Hello kabayan with respect,

Paulit ng paulit ang tirada mo para na gaya ng sirang plaka. ang iyong post # 3036 sa tingin ko ay tama pero mga irrelevant ang karamihan sa post niyo po. Pasensya na at medyo korne na yata kasi nasagot na lahat ni DC ang mga ibinato mo.

Basics, you sound like a tingling cymbals...
 
Seohce

Seohce

Senior Member
#3,077
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
#3,077
fredoheaven said:
Hello kabayan with respect,

Paulit ng paulit ang tirada mo para na gaya ng sirang plaka. ang iyong post # 3036 sa tingin ko ay tama pero mga irrelevant ang karamihan sa post niyo po. Pasensya na at medyo korne na yata kasi nasagot na lahat ni DC ang mga ibinato mo.

Basics, you sound like a tingling cymbals...
Click to expand...
New International Version 1984 2 Timothy 3:15-17 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#3,078
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
927
113
#3,078
Seohce said:
New International Version 1984 2 Timothy 3:15-17 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Click to expand...
You sound not to be a Filipino... anyway...No problemas with that verse you cited and I think you're arrogant enough when it comes to Bible doctrine. Ummm... pray ko na lang you come up with a good understanding of his words...DC will do the lecturing to you...;)
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#3,079
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
927
113
#3,079
Seolche,

Sa tingin ko marami pa kayong kakainin at inumin para makig pag discussion but that's you're freedoom. You are entitled to your own opinion.
 
Seohce

Seohce

Senior Member
#3,080
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
#3,080
fredoheaven said:
You sound not to be a Filipino... anyway...No problemas with that verse you cited and I think you're arrogant enough when it comes to Bible doctrine. Ummm... pray ko na lang you come up with a good understanding of his words...DC will do the lecturing to you...;)
Click to expand...
OUR LORD JESUS SAID IN John 8:43-47 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
 
You must log in or register to reply here.