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Thread: Not By Works

  1. #36081
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    See....I acknowledge the CROSS of Calvary and the imputed righteousness of Christ....YOU devalue and reject both as insufficient and or a trick that does not work....NO my friend....I would say your partial quote here applies unto yourself and not me......try again....!
    It is GOD's power working through the cross at Calvary.. through His Son.

    Those that Believe are sanctified... by His perfect offering becoming our High Priest perfecting us..

    So let us hold fast and provoke each other to love and to do His Good works...




    Hebrews 10


    19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21And
    havingan high priest over the house of God; 22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised 24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Well lots of people acknowledge that Jesus died, does not change them.

    Unless the reality of Christs works brings repentance and humbleness in your heart it means
    nothing to you. I know lots of people who go through everything yet they know nothing
    in their hearts.

    What you take as devaluing, is actually the opposite. I know Jesus changed me, because I
    changed. It has taken a long time for me to see the difference between us.

    I know Christs work, you still wait for it when He returns.
    It is difficult at first in the early part of following Jesus to see the differences.
    But it becomes more obvious over many years.

    You still need Christ to wash you like a young believer, because nothing has
    really been resolved. And because of this you project on to me your own state,
    because you know no other. Unfortunately it is very possible to have all the head knowledge
    and miss the reality within.

    One member here saw no problem bullying and abusing another because they were weak in
    their eyes. They did not see this spoke to what they were within, but we are what we are.

    So another glorious day walking with the Lord, Amen.
    You can say ALL of this and yet it does not change the fact that you said...

    a. The cross of Christ is not enough
    b. The imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work

    BOTH statements negate anything you have said or say.....a saved child of God would not say such things.....why cannot you understand that simple truth.....!

  3. #36083


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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Cee View Post
    Grace empowers us to walk in good works.

    But grace is available IN Christ. We access Christ by dying to ourselves and being reborn in Him. Baptism gives us this very real illustration. Our death broke us free of the law of sin and death. When Christ became sin for us, our faith in Him put us on the cross with Him. But just as He was raised up we too were raised up in Christ. We are now called the light of the world.

    Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light

    As a result of this work done in us, Scripture teaches us how to walk after our identity in Christ.

    But if you think you are dark, or others still are, walking as light is not faith, but unbelief. We must first come face to face with God and find ourselves in Him. Righteous and justified by Him. Free to love through Him.

    We have been crucified to the world. And the world crucified to us. So that we may live in the newness of Him.
    THIS POST IS FOR EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD.


    Haven't you left something out?



    John 14:15 (HCSB)
    15 If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


    John 14:23 (HCSB)
    23 Jesus answered, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.



    Shouldn't the emphasis be on LOVING HIM, and the obedience will automatically follow as a way to show our love for Him?


    Matthew 22:36-39 (CSBBible)
    36 "Teacher, which command in the law is the greatest??"
    37 He said to him, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
    38 This is the greatest and most important command.
    39 The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.


    Why all the talk about what what you must do or will do, and NO MENTION of how you must LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD, and others?


    Is not LOVE the horse that pulls the cart of good works?

    Good Works without LOVE is a cart on a deserted dirt road in the wilderness, going NO WHERE.
    Last edited by VCO; 6 Days Ago at 11:33 AM.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    A the Cross is acknowledging ourselves as dead in our trespasses..filthy sinners heading off to destruction.. at enmity with our GOD.. acknowledging that the only way to be forgiven is to Repent and believe... being Saved by GOD's Grace through Faith in His Perfect Son..

    Ackowledging that we are to be born again of the Holy Spirit and that in our newness we live and walk by the Spirit which is Christ within.


    So if all this is done on our behalf being evil.. then we are eternally grateful and obey our First Love...

    We grow in Grace and knowledge of Christ...

    Today so much as been revealed to me in Christ.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    THIS POST IS FOR EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD.


    Haven't you left something out?



    John 14:15 (HCSB)
    15 If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


    John 14:23 (HCSB)
    23 Jesus answered, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.



    Shouldn't the emphasis be on LOVING HIM, and the obedience will automatically follow as a way to show our love for Him?


    Matthew 22:36-39 (CSBBible)
    36 "Teacher, which command in the law is the greatest??"
    37 He said to him, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
    38 This is the greatest and most important command.
    39 The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.


    Why all the talk about what what you must do or will do, and NO MENTION of how you must LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD, and others?


    Is not LOVE the horse that pulls the cart of good works?

    Good Works without LOVE is a cart on a deserted dirt road in the wilderness, going NO WHERE.
    Loving God is a process of growth and maturity.....it is not instantaneous as birth.........

    By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world

  6. #36086


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    Default Re: Not By Works

    ?
    ?
    ?
    How many besides me just SCROLL PAST those video clips without reading a word of it?
    1ofthem and dalok6800 like this.

    t t t
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Loving God is a process of growth and maturity.....it is not instantaneous as birth.........

    By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world
    That is the loveliest thing I have heard from you..
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Like I said last night....I hate no one here, but I do despise any doctrine that leads one astray and or that denies the works of Christ on our behalf.....some of the vanilla café blend gospels on this site devalue the work of Christ, his sacrifice and the promises he has made.....I am blunt, and lack tact I know.....just defending the truth as I perceive it
    There is God's love and truth and justice, the cross; you cannot have love and truth without God's justice, the payment for our sin's. In my youth people would shout peace and love and put flowers in their hair. It was all a big lie. I think if you and I were standing at the foot of the cross with Jesus Mom and the Apostle John and personally witnessed Jesus and the suffering of the cross; I think we would see how our works to keep us saved are profoundly useless.

    How can anyone add their works to what Jesus has already done. That would be like the Israelite's telling God; look here we will all take a bucket to help you open the Red Sea so that we can be saved. God does not need our help. "Nothing in my hand do I bing only to thy Cross do I cling." Love and truth yes but God requires justice as well...

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    ?
    ?
    ?
    How many besides me just SCROLL PAST those video clips without reading a word of it?
    Yes, that is annoying.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    That is the loveliest thing I have heard from you..
    Thanks....I have never denied that a believer will work and or bear fruit....My contention has always been the following....

    a. Faith into the finished work of Christ is what saves one eternally
    b. Faith plus works to gain, keep or embellish salvation is a false gospel (Galatians 1 and 3)
    c. Any work or fruit is the result of Christ in us already by faith and salvation that one already possesses in Christ
    d. Salvation is eternal and cannot be lost or kept by what we do or by what we fail to do
    e. Salvation is by faith thru grace and is completely unmerited upon our part
    f. Jesus is the source of our faith, he begins, finishes and completes our faith
    g. Jesus will not fail in his promises and saves us to the uttermost and keeps us by his power
    h. Jesus will lose nothing, but rather raise it up at the last day
    I. I absolutely believe in eternal security........

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    ?
    ?
    ?
    How many besides me just SCROLL PAST those video clips without reading a word of it?
    What video clips??? Which post?
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Loving God is a process of growth and maturity.....it is not instantaneous as birth.........

    By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world
    That is so comforting to know...Some days in the past I have questioned myself about my love for God, do I really love Him, am I just pretending ...As I draw nearer to Him, my love for Him has grown so much, causing me to sin less from the sins that once had me in chains, because I love Him more then when He saved me...Now I know that loving God is a process makes sense to me, I must be maturing lol...xox...
    PSALM 107:20 He sends His word and heals me and rescues me from the pit and destruction.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post

    Hebrews 10
    [...]
    23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering...
    If holding fast in faith is a sinful work of the damnable works gospel (as we are being told it is here in this thread) I must wonder why the Bible itself would tell me to do that.

  14. #36094
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosemaryx View Post
    That is so comforting to know...Some days in the past I have questioned myself about my love for God, do I really love Him, am I just pretending ...As I draw nearer to Him, my love for Him has grown so much, causing me to sin less from the sins that once had me in chains, because I love Him more then when He saved me...Now I know that loving God is a process makes sense to me, I must be maturing lol...xox...
    AMEN and for sure it is.....and as a process of growth and maturity we have ups and downs....sometimes and in particular areas we are as strong as reinforced concrete and maybe in other areas we fail and need more growth....The bible states clearly that JESUS himself learned to be obedient through the things which he suffered....are we above our master? NO...it is sufficient that we can be AS our master.....we must endure the same process of growth and maturity......the biggest difference is that JESUS never failed....we do.....!
    Last edited by dcontroversal; 6 Days Ago at 12:02 PM.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    If holding fast in faith is a sinful work of the damnable works gospel (as we are being told it is here in this thread) I must wonder why the Bible itself would tell me to do that.
    Your problem....you flat embellish and twist what is said to push this kind of garbage.....

    The damnable works gospel is to say JESUS fails and YOU MUST DO TO REMAIN SAVED...get it through your head and quit lying about what we say......!!

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Your problem....you flat embellish and twist what is said to push this kind of garbage.....

    The damnable works gospel is to say JESUS fails and YOU MUST DO TO REMAIN SAVED...get it through your head and quit lying about what we say......!!
    Relax and just calmly explain Hebrews 10:23. You and others are insisting if I obey Hebrews 10:23 I'm adding my own damnable efforts to the cross to be saved.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    Relax and just calmly explain Hebrews 10:23. You and others are insisting if I obey Hebrews 10:23 I'm adding my own damnable efforts to the cross to be saved.
    You still fail to see the full scope of the letter to the HEBREW Christians who were wanting to go back under an inferior way....the context is found in the preceding verses and is applicable unto the SECURITY we have in CHRIST...
    vs. 17 OUR SINS and INIQUITIES are forgiven and forgotten in CHRIST
    vs. 18 WHERE remission is (in Christ) there is no more offering for sin (pointing at the Old Covenant they want to go back under)
    vs. 19 Because of verse 17 ad 18 we have BOLDNESS to enter the holiest by the blood of CHRIST (cannot do under the old cov.)
    vs. 20 IT IS A NEW and LIVING WAY which ALLOWS vs. 19
    vs. 21 WE ALL have a BETTER and NEW high priest over the house of GOD (after the order of Melchisedec chapter 8)
    vs. 22. BECAUSE of the above we should DRAW NEAR in FULL ASSURANCE and in a clear conscience (because of JESUS and the NEW and living way)
    vs. 23 BECAUSE of the NEW and LIVING way and the above in CHRIST HOLD FAST the profession of faith without wavering (DESIRING to go back under an inferior way)

    IT states NOTHING about losing salvation......

    JUST like the verse states....I KNOW in whom I have believed and am FULLY persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

    THIS verse has ZERO to do with losing salvation, but rather is a CALL to hold fast and not DESIRE to go back under an inferior way.......and it does not state that if they WAIVER they will LOSE that which has been eternally GIVEN in CHRIST.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Jesus died,was buried,and rose again,and provided salvation,which we can do nothing to earn it,but accept,and believe.

    Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ for that is all we can do,and we receive the Spirit.

    Jesus did His job and saved us.

    But when we receive the Spirit then the responsibility falls on us to make the choice to keep doing what is right,and be Christlike,for God will not twist our arm to be Christlike.

    We do grow in Christ,and we would not have it down perfectly when we are first converted,but learn as we go along,for even Peter had a problem that Paul got in his face,and told him to stop it,for he was not walking uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel,and Peter is built upon Christ,the first person to be added to the Church,besides Christ the foundation,and head.

    So many people when they are first converted might struggle with the ways of the world that they once belonged to,and understanding God's word,and we study to show ourselves approved,and all the saints collectively are to work together to come to the truth of the word,for no man is an island.

    But Jesus did His job saving us,and when we receive the Spirit then we have responsibility for we have the Spirit,as the man Christ Jesus has the Spirit,and on him as a human was responsibility laid on Him.

    The Son is the judge of the world as a man that did the will of God,so everybody is measured by that standard,to act like Christ as He acted on earth,with the same power He had,the Holy Spirit.

    They will be done on earth,as it is in heaven.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    If holding fast in faith is a sinful work of the damnable works gospel (as we are being told it is here in this thread) I must wonder why the Bible itself would tell me to do that.
    Some over the years up until this time have been contending for the Law of Faith.. witnessing of the New Wine in place of the OLD and Rightly so...

    For there are many people going about doing good deeds and others doing the deeds of the Old Covenant.. neither have Faith in the Son of GOD because they believe not and are not sanctified by Christ.

    So where we who believe come to love the New wine and know it is better... and the works that come through our Faith are not to our credit but to Christs and Heavenly Father...and we grow in Grace and Knowledge of Christ Hearing and doing what He instructs.. we set off a many generation built up radar of zeal for the New Covenant.. Sometimes those guarding get hardened.. and wave a sword in zeal... all I hope is they read the Gospel and remember what they are guarding against...

    But Paul was guarding the Old Covenant yet became a witness for the Messiah and guarded the New....


    key word works... if you do not believe and have Faith but try to earn Salvation.. the only way is through Faith in the Messiah.. and that Faith worketh by love which is reciprocated.....

    So if we all take a moment to receive what we each say and what we mean we may learn and grow together in Christ.

    Provoking each other in love and good works of our Lord.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    ...explain Hebrews 10:23. You and others are insisting if I obey Hebrews 10:23 I'm adding my own damnable efforts to the cross to be saved.
    Hebrews 10:23 is descriptive language of the truly converted and is an exhortation. It is no different than the exhortation to preach the Gospel, or do our differing ministries unto the LORD. Our salvation is not dependent upon any of those things. Those who have truly trusted in Christ know this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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