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Thread: Not By Works

  1. #36101
    Senior Member TruthTalk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Thanks....I have never denied that a believer will work and or bear fruit....My contention has always been the following....

    a. Faith into the finished work of Christ is what saves one eternally
    b. Faith plus works to gain, keep or embellish salvation is a false gospel (Galatians 1 and 3)
    c. Any work or fruit is the result of Christ in us already by faith and salvation that one already possesses in Christ
    d. Salvation is eternal and cannot be lost or kept by what we do or by what we fail to do
    e. Salvation is by faith thru grace and is completely unmerited upon our part
    f. Jesus is the source of our faith, he begins, finishes and completes our faith
    g. Jesus will not fail in his promises and saves us to the uttermost and keeps us by his power
    h. Jesus will lose nothing, but rather raise it up at the last day
    I. I absolutely believe in eternal security........
    Hi Decon, I want to add to your points above;

    My favorite superhero's are missionaries, they do so many good works for God, apart from adding works to their salvation. Their works are motivated from God's love shed abroad in our heart, not self-centered pride.

    So here are a few things that James Hudson Taylor accomplish in a 10 year period, to further the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you asked Mr Taylor today do you trust in your works for God to save you he would say No! I trust in Jesus to save me, from "Faith to Faith" how foolish it is to trust in your own works.

    Quote:
    In the overruling providence of God all these things have been made to fall out rather for the furtherance of the Gospel, and on all hands in China there are opportunities for Christian work as never before. A brief comparison of the China Inland Mission statistics of January 1st, 1900, before The Boxer Outbreak, and January 1906 will reveal progress made.

    Jan. 1, 1900 / Jan 1, 1906


    • C.I.M. Missionaries (including wives) 811 / 827
    • Stations 171 / 205
    • Outstations 223 / 632
    • Chapels 387 / 827
    • Paid native helpers 581 / 888
    • Unpaid native helpers 193 / 394
    • Communicants in fellowship 8,557 / 14,078
    • Baptized from commencement 12,964 / 21,648
    • Organized churches 266 / 476
    • Boarding-school scholars 788 / 1,166
    • Day-school scholars 1,382 / 1,831
    • Hospitals 6 / 7
    • Dispensaries 18 / 37



    Opium refuges 46 / 101


    Written by: James Hudson Taylor

    See more here:

    Not By Works
    Last edited by TruthTalk; 6 Days Ago at 12:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    AMEN and for sure it is.....and as a process of growth and maturity we have ups and downs....sometimes and in particular areas we are as strong as reinforced concrete and maybe in other areas we fail and need more growth....The bible states clearly that JESUS himself learned to be obedient through the things which he suffered....are we above our master? NO...it is sufficient that we can be AS our master.....we must endure the same process of growth and maturity......the biggest difference is that JESUS never failed....we do.....!
    The second came so quickly...

    Glory to Heavenly Father and our Messiah always and forever.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthTalk View Post
    Hi Decon, I want to add to your points above;

    My favorite superhero's are missionaries, they do so many good works for God, apart from adding works to their salvation. Their works are motivated from God's love shed abroad in our heart, not self-centered pride.

    So here are a few things that James Hudson Taylor accomplish in a 10 year period, to further the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you asked Mr Taylor today do you trust in your works for God to save you he would say No! I trust in Jesus to save me, from "Faith to Faith" how foolish it is to trust in your own works.

    Quote:
    In the overruling providence of God all these things have been made to fall out rather for the furtherance of the Gospel, and on all hands in China there are opportunities for Christian work as never before. A brief comparison of the China Inland Mission statistics of January 1st, 1900, before The Boxer Outbreak, and January 1906 will reveal progress made.

    Jan. 1, 1900 / Jan 1, 1906


    • C.I.M. Missionaries (including wives) 811 / 827
    • Stations 171 / 205
    • Outstations 223 / 632
    • Chapels 387 / 827
    • Paid native helpers 581 / 888
    • Unpaid native helpers 193 / 394
    • Communicants in fellowship 8,557 / 14,078
    • Baptized from commencement 12,964 / 21,648
    • Organized churches 266 / 476
    • Boarding-school scholars 788 / 1,166
    • Day-school scholars 1,382 / 1,831
    • Hospitals 6 / 7
    • Dispensaries 18 / 37



    Opium refuges 46 / 101


    Written by: James Hudson Taylor

    See more here:

    Not By Works
    AMEN...thank God for the faithful who have stood for the truth and taken it to the masses....my view.....even if we lead one to the truth it will have been worth it....

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    Relax and just calmly explain Hebrews 10:23. You and others are insisting if I obey Hebrews 10:23 I'm adding my own damnable efforts to the cross to be saved.
    Hi Phart...Hebrews 10.23 means to me that God does not want us to waver in our faith, not to look at our circumstances or things going on around us, when we do this then we take our eyes off Jesus which causes us to have wavering faith...God wants us to keep our faith on Him because He has promised to keep us untill the end...xox...Because He is faithful......
    PSALM 107:20 He sends His word and heals me and rescues me from the pit and destruction.

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    P Hart you are not adding you are being Faithful.. what Rosemary states is true.. but then we keep on line upon line to what we are to Keep our eyes on Christ for.. by the power of GOD our eyes and ears are open.. so we keep Growing in Grace and Christ. we all are at different stages but the same walk..
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    AMEN...thank God for the faithful who have stood for the truth and taken it to the masses....my view.....even if we lead one to the truth it will have been worth it....
    Because Jesus lives, we shall live also; if we lead one person to the truth our life is expendable, period.

    "Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.
    Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize
    that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."
    Jn14:19,20
    Last edited by TruthTalk; 6 Days Ago at 02:02 PM.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Here is one more reason why we should not trust in our works to keep us saved; Noah, he built God's Arch for all who would enter into God's salvation at no cost, free boarding pass; and the Arch had no sails, no rudder, no oars, to direct its course only God.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Loving God is a process of growth and maturity.....it is not instantaneous as birth.........

    By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world
    "We love, because He first loved us." 1John4:19

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Eternal salvation based upon the faith that JESUS starts, finishes and completes is not comparable to a lottery ticket.....and to be frank...devalues the eternal GIFT of life everlasting.....wow.....
    wow, So eternal life, is comparable to a lottery ticket? I have heard everything now.
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post


    The Good Shepherd will lead His Sheep to the gate but they must hear and follow Him Faithfully.

    Peter is saying we must keep listening and following patiently...

    it is written:

    Matthew 22

    11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14For many are called, but few are chosen.





    The Bible says his true sheep hear his voice and they follow.

    The sheep who do not belong to him do not. Because they do not know his voice.

    There is no maybe about it, Your either one or the other.
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Faith + no works = dead

    Works + no faith = dead

    We need faith and works
    True faith will have true works. But no work willl ever save you, You are saved eternally before you do one work.

    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    THIS POST IS FOR EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD.


    Haven't you left something out?



    John 14:15 (HCSB)
    15 If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


    John 14:23 (HCSB)
    23 Jesus answered, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.



    Shouldn't the emphasis be on LOVING HIM, and the obedience will automatically follow as a way to show our love for Him?


    Matthew 22:36-39 (CSBBible)
    36 "Teacher, which command in the law is the greatest??"
    37 He said to him, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
    38 This is the greatest and most important command.
    39 The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.


    Why all the talk about what what you must do or will do, and NO MENTION of how you must LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD, and others?


    Is not LOVE the horse that pulls the cart of good works?

    Good Works without LOVE is a cart on a deserted dirt road in the wilderness, going NO WHERE.

    You can not forget,

    We love because he first love us.

    We are incapable of love until we first experience his full salvation at our new birth. IE faith and repentance come first. Then Salvation (eternal life) then we have the capacity to love God and others
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    If holding fast in faith is a sinful work of the damnable works gospel (as we are being told it is here in this thread) I must wonder why the Bible itself would tell me to do that.
    if your doing it to earn or keep eternal life, then it it is a work, PERIOD
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  14. #36114
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    wow, So eternal life, is comparable to a lottery ticket? I have heard everything now.
    Yeah and one other worker for had a definition of hope that was similar to buying a lottery ticket....HOPE in the bible is a confident expectation of something GUARANTEED......not the type of hope when one buys a lottery ticket and the cross their fingers and HOPE they win.....

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    Was a winning lotto ticket that got lost not really worth a lifetime of winnings because it got lost? Of course not. But that is the flawed reasoning that so many people apply to eternal life.

    The lost ticket continues to be worth a lifetime of winnings. I just don't possess those winnings anymore because I lost the ticket. The value of it didn't change because I lost it.
    Is Phart, trying to say again you can lose your "eternal salvation" isn't that like saying that if Noah's Arch did not make it to dry land everyone would have lost their salvation; it did of course find dry land and that is because God's promise's never fail. and His Eternal Salvation is Forever.

    "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" Numbers23:19

    True Gospel

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    True faith will have true works. But no work willl ever save you, You are saved eternally before you do one work.

    AMEN......the biblical equation

    Jesus + Faith Alone = Biblical Salvation

    Biblical salvation will bear fruit or work which are the result of NOT for.......and let we forget.....the following rings true for any and all who are biblically saved eternally....

    a. They can be like the prodigal and burn their inheritance through riotous living (still saved and as son)
    b. They can be like the Corinthian brother and cut lose from a church for the destruction of the flesh (still saved and a son)
    c. They can be like Peter and deny knowing the Lord (still saved and Son)
    d. They can produce works of wood, hay and stubble (still saved and a Son)
    e. They can commit horrific sins like David did (still saved and a Son)

    etc...........The bible is clear....there is no losing salvation as one is secure in Christ....they will be treated as SONS and have their butts whipped off in Chastisement by God and or forfeit inheritance and or not be given what they could have had......

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    You can not forget,

    We love because he first love us.

    We are incapable of love until we first experience his full salvation at our new birth. IE faith and repentance come first. Then Salvation (eternal life) then we have the capacity to love God and others
    Amen, which is a process of growth and maturity........not an immediate possession.....

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    John 3

    6For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.



    Knowing not what world I wake to... I leave something we all agree on as a reminder that GOD loves us and through His Son we may be saved by believing the Truth and come to the light.

    Let us have Grace, Love and Truth of GOD always through our Lord and Saviour.

    Peace to you all.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    if your doing it to earn or keep eternal life, then it it is a work, PERIOD
    No matter how one slices, dices, twists, embellishes, churns, mixes, blends, purees, and or any other word of like caliber and order....if salvation can be lost or forfeit then ONE MUST DO SOMETHING to keep it, regain it, maintain it and or facilitate it.....this equals a works based false gospel........regardless of what they say and or how they twist our words......

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Galatians 5

    5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

    2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

    3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

    4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

    6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

    7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

    8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

    9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

    10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

    11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

    12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

    13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

    14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

    16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

    17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

    18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

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