Not By Works
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Unfortunately I have had to report this behaviour.
Walking away from the faith is actually more prevalent than staying in church.
Someone did a survey of young people who came to faith at a summer camp and how many
after 10 years were still attending church. It was about 1%. So one has to get real.
2nd keeping or losing faith has been an issue throughout church history, and people of faith
have held both positions and not been called disbelievers and apostates because of it.
Unfortunately being abusive over such issues indicates the lack of grace and love walking
in the Spirit is not part of. So either people are walking in the flesh or do not actually know
the Lord.
This verse
Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Cor 1:21-22
The language is simple, the Holy Spirit is a deposit guaranteeing what is to come.
You may not agree with Pauls idea or expression, but it is plain and simple.
We have passed from death to life, walking in the eternal from the mortal, with the
reality being confirmed by the Holy Spirit dwelling with us.
The concept jump being made is a mystical, you cannot reverse or lose this mystical
transformation or birth, so therefore the words cannot be true, except they are, and
the mystical aspect is not there is scripture the way people want it.
Walking away from the faith is actually more prevalent than staying in church.
Someone did a survey of young people who came to faith at a summer camp and how many
after 10 years were still attending church. It was about 1%. So one has to get real.
2nd keeping or losing faith has been an issue throughout church history, and people of faith
have held both positions and not been called disbelievers and apostates because of it.
Unfortunately being abusive over such issues indicates the lack of grace and love walking
in the Spirit is not part of. So either people are walking in the flesh or do not actually know
the Lord.
This verse
Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Cor 1:21-22
The language is simple, the Holy Spirit is a deposit guaranteeing what is to come.
You may not agree with Pauls idea or expression, but it is plain and simple.
We have passed from death to life, walking in the eternal from the mortal, with the
reality being confirmed by the Holy Spirit dwelling with us.
The concept jump being made is a mystical, you cannot reverse or lose this mystical
transformation or birth, so therefore the words cannot be true, except they are, and
the mystical aspect is not there is scripture the way people want it.
The above logic is an obvious distortion.
It is like saying someone gives you a fantastic gift of a well that gives you fresh water.
Now making sure it does not get destroyed, polluted, blocked and continues to work is part
of looking after the gift. The gift is still real and held. Looking after something is good
stewardship not earning something.
This is a simple illustration. We are call stewards.
Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms.
1 Peter 4:10
A steward is a keeper of the gift.
Yet for some reason, this believer is claiming by being a good steward one in trying to pay
for the gift. Is being a bad steward in this morality, then showing you truly do not deserve
such a gift and walking in Gods will?
You realise this is the morality they are pushing, by denying simple principles of the Kingdom
and creating this heretical version.
You know heresy is embedded in their approach because of the antagonism over simple biblical
principles, built on the false premise to obey God is earning salvation, to repent and confess sin
is disbelief that the cross and Christs death is enough.
These logical ideas seem to make sense initially until you see where it ends up, ie its fruit is
heresy and emnity with Gods people, and end in the condemning abusive attitudes.
It is the same as a praise meeting singing wonderful praise to God, but ending with a preacher
bringing Gods name into disrepute. It is the words given that are the problem, not the surrounding.
So people can have all the right sounding background and words but the specific details be a
corruption of the truth. Key to it all is the sermon on the mount and building upon the rock.
Put Jesus's words into action, because in them is life.
It is like saying someone gives you a fantastic gift of a well that gives you fresh water.
Now making sure it does not get destroyed, polluted, blocked and continues to work is part
of looking after the gift. The gift is still real and held. Looking after something is good
stewardship not earning something.
This is a simple illustration. We are call stewards.
Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms.
1 Peter 4:10
A steward is a keeper of the gift.
Yet for some reason, this believer is claiming by being a good steward one in trying to pay
for the gift. Is being a bad steward in this morality, then showing you truly do not deserve
such a gift and walking in Gods will?
You realise this is the morality they are pushing, by denying simple principles of the Kingdom
and creating this heretical version.
You know heresy is embedded in their approach because of the antagonism over simple biblical
principles, built on the false premise to obey God is earning salvation, to repent and confess sin
is disbelief that the cross and Christs death is enough.
These logical ideas seem to make sense initially until you see where it ends up, ie its fruit is
heresy and emnity with Gods people, and end in the condemning abusive attitudes.
It is the same as a praise meeting singing wonderful praise to God, but ending with a preacher
bringing Gods name into disrepute. It is the words given that are the problem, not the surrounding.
So people can have all the right sounding background and words but the specific details be a
corruption of the truth. Key to it all is the sermon on the mount and building upon the rock.
Put Jesus's words into action, because in them is life.
Can't lose the faith of God according to his three day labor of love that provides the work of God .It's not of ourselves.We simply have it as our treasure in these bodies of death. He cannot deny himself.
What if some do not believe (no faith) .It will not make the faith of God without effect . To effect is to work.
Need more than he is willing to give?
2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Can't serve two masters. Self righteous is self serving. We serve His righteousness. With him there is forgiveness .He forgives all of our sin .Not a part.
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[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]Ephesians 3King James Version (KJV)
3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Will we be united as saints of the Most High ..being grounded in love.. does Christ dwell in our hearts by Faith?
Strengthened by GOD with His Spirit in our inner...
where is the Love and Truth?
throw out the doctrines of men and build your house on Christ's Testimony.
Who is Paul washer and Charles spurgeon.. who is Prince?
are they not mere men who seek to lead you away with their doctrines? Are they ordained.. and why do all these men speak different messages if their is only one Everlasting Gospel...
Get back to the pure pure word of GOD and believe the Truth that will set you free..
The Bible is not solved.. it is to be believed.. no second guessing when The Holy Spirit reveals... no need for the Greek or Hebrew for the willing heart that seeks receives...
The milk needs to be believed before the meat is given...
Christ taught that many are called few are chosen.... we are to be worthy to walk in white.. to make our calling and election sure...
2 Peter 1
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ
[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]Ephesians 3King James Version (KJV)
3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Will we be united as saints of the Most High ..being grounded in love.. does Christ dwell in our hearts by Faith?
Strengthened by GOD with His Spirit in our inner...
where is the Love and Truth?
throw out the doctrines of men and build your house on Christ's Testimony.
Who is Paul washer and Charles spurgeon.. who is Prince?
are they not mere men who seek to lead you away with their doctrines? Are they ordained.. and why do all these men speak different messages if their is only one Everlasting Gospel...
Get back to the pure pure word of GOD and believe the Truth that will set you free..
The Bible is not solved.. it is to be believed.. no second guessing when The Holy Spirit reveals... no need for the Greek or Hebrew for the willing heart that seeks receives...
The milk needs to be believed before the meat is given...
Christ taught that many are called few are chosen.... we are to be worthy to walk in white.. to make our calling and election sure...
2 Peter 1
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ
[/TD]
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Address the argument in regard to Christ’s work of faith as a three day labor of His love. It takes away the confusion as to whose faith you are referring to.
The believer cannot believe unless Christ gives them His faith that works in us to both will and perform His good pleasure. (imputed righteousness) The separation is not between His faith as the plan and the His work of executing that faith .
Its the work of the faith of God that works in us to both will and perform his good pleasure. Without God working in us no man could believe Him not seen.
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
The believer cannot believe unless Christ gives them His faith that works in us to both will and perform His good pleasure. (imputed righteousness) The separation is not between His faith as the plan and the His work of executing that faith .
Its the work of the faith of God that works in us to both will and perform his good pleasure. Without God working in us no man could believe Him not seen.
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
You can keep arguing that a born again believer can lose his/her salvation by a momentary lack of belief until the cow's come home, and who would believe your nonsense. Your Lasagna story sealed the deal for me, you are a false teacher.
Every time I read your post's I have to stand on my head to make any sense out of what you say. There is no truth in your words just lame stories and nonsense. It's time for you to stop teaching false doctrine and set up your workshop cooking Lasagna.
"And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life." 1John2:25
Every time I read your post's I have to stand on my head to make any sense out of what you say. There is no truth in your words just lame stories and nonsense. It's time for you to stop teaching false doctrine and set up your workshop cooking Lasagna.
"And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life." 1John2:25
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TT - how is faith a temporary thing that someone can momentarily lose.
What you are arguing for goes back to the idea if you sin, you lose salvation, out of fellowship,
you repent and regain salvation.
But the real biblical principle is on your trust in Christ. Is the cross enough to forgive your sins
and help you through the struggles with the issues until victory is found? That is real faith.
And look around, few truly have this kind of faith.
Probably 50% of this site, though christian, do not hold out their sinful attitudes that lead to
sin will be resolved before Jesus returns. The trick is they do not talk about what, and probably
are not sure themselves, but continually have this dread of failure overcoming them.
But if God could go to the cross and forgive us, He can sort out these issues in our lives.
It is a question of whether we believe Him. And I know I am talking our heart life, our thought life,
our aspiration life, our ambitions and our dreams. It is no surprise people like the rewards side of
faith, but to take it seriously, like the rich young man, the show is great, but actually following a
very different type of problem. Except when you know what love is, being a gatekeeper is better
than anything here on earth. Amen
What you are arguing for goes back to the idea if you sin, you lose salvation, out of fellowship,
you repent and regain salvation.
But the real biblical principle is on your trust in Christ. Is the cross enough to forgive your sins
and help you through the struggles with the issues until victory is found? That is real faith.
And look around, few truly have this kind of faith.
Probably 50% of this site, though christian, do not hold out their sinful attitudes that lead to
sin will be resolved before Jesus returns. The trick is they do not talk about what, and probably
are not sure themselves, but continually have this dread of failure overcoming them.
But if God could go to the cross and forgive us, He can sort out these issues in our lives.
It is a question of whether we believe Him. And I know I am talking our heart life, our thought life,
our aspiration life, our ambitions and our dreams. It is no surprise people like the rewards side of
faith, but to take it seriously, like the rich young man, the show is great, but actually following a
very different type of problem. Except when you know what love is, being a gatekeeper is better
than anything here on earth. Amen
You can lose faith because Jesus prayed this
Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.
Luke 22:31-32
Jesus knew if Peters faith failed that would have been it.
Now if Jesus knows this spiritual reality, why not you?
Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.
Luke 22:31-32
Jesus knew if Peters faith failed that would have been it.
Now if Jesus knows this spiritual reality, why not you?
...xox...
E
Good reminder of what? That Jesus could not know if peter would have stayed in faith or not? Is Jesus God or is he not. Why do you people want to hunanise Jesus,
Jesus knew his faith would not fail, that is why Jesus said,
when you have turned back (not when you might turn back) Strengthen your brothers.
Jesus knew his faith would not fail, it would be tested, in a great way, But Jesu s knew God would prevail and peter would return, which he did.
you all should be ashame of yourself.
Jesus knew his faith would not fail, that is why Jesus said,
when you have turned back (not when you might turn back) Strengthen your brothers.
Jesus knew his faith would not fail, it would be tested, in a great way, But Jesu s knew God would prevail and peter would return, which he did.
you all should be ashame of yourself.
God gave me the down payment that I have to have to secure the kingdom. How is that me trying to pay for it myself, lol?
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Seriously Phart, nothing that you say sounds remotely like the gospel in the bible. It just sounds all made up in your mind.
"For the wages of sin is death, 'but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom6:23
I would stick to cooking Lasagna for your daily bread, unless you make a twisted mess out of that too.
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P
Lol, the Holy Spirit in you is a down payment, a deposit, a taste of what is to come. It's only a fraction of the inheritance you will receive on the Day of Salvation............if you keep believing.
The Holy Spirit in you is God's promissory note to you of things to come. That's why you have to keep believing, so you'll have in your possession on the Day of Judgment that which guarantees the inheritance for you.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5 NASB)
"...waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it." (Romans 8:23-25 NASB)
The Holy Spirit in you is God's promissory note to you of things to come. That's why you have to keep believing, so you'll have in your possession on the Day of Judgment that which guarantees the inheritance for you.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5 NASB)
"...waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it." (Romans 8:23-25 NASB)
E
The Bible does not say, As long as you keep believing. That must be in the PHart version of scripture.
It says we are given the pledge of. Our inheritance UNTIL the day of redemption. No where does it say only if we keep believing.
Yet again, You think you are stronger than God,, Then again, considering the examples you use (the car and the lasagna) it does not suprise me.