Not By Works

[Hizikyah]

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans10:4
Testament , it does not speak to to our going back to the Mosaic Law. Which was a School Master to bring us to Christ/Messiah. Jesus did not abolish the Law He set us free from the Law, so who do people insist upon being under a School Master again, so very foolish.

Many do not have the elementary oracles down and thus need milk; Romans 10:4:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose (telos) of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of our instruction/command is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*goal is word #G5056 télos - Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]

Not all obedience is not one trying to be justified by works, but rather doing what is right and therefore should be done by default. Those in Messiah Yahshua were not called out to live like those that dont follow Him.

Deuteronomy 10:16, “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.”

Galatians 5:5-6, “For we, in Spirit, by belief, eagerly wait for the expectation of righteousness. For in Messiah יהושע neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any strength, but belief working through love."

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of our instruction/command is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

*goalis word #G5056 télos - Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

1 John 4:19-21, "We love Him, because He first loved us. If anyone says: I love YHWH, and hates his neighbor, he is a liar; for he who does not love his neighbor whom he has seen, how can he love YHWH Whom he has not seen? For we have this commandment from Him: That he who loves YHWH must love his neighbor also."

1 Corinthians 7:19, The circumcision is naught, and the uncircumcision is naught, but the guarding of the commands of Yah does matter!”

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, “Let us hear the conclusion of the entire matter: Fear Yah and guard His commands, for this applies to all mankind! For Yah shall bring every work into right-ruling, including all that is hidden, whether good or whether evil.”

 

[TruthTalk]

You talk about old I’m 84

Quote:

"Noah died 350 years after the flood, at the age of 950, the last of the extremely long-lived antediluvian Patriarchs. The maximum human lifespan, as depicted by the Bible, diminishes rapidly thereafter, from almost 1,000 years to the 120 years of Moses."

Just kindin' ya a little, wish we all can have a long life as you have done, God bless and hope to hear more of your posting on this thread.....

 

[Deacon_D]

How can you love Jesus if you don’t love His Word? And how can you love the word unless you obey it?

 

[Deacon_D]

Yeah, but his life span was longer than ours.

 

[TruthTalk]

The Land That Time Forgot (2009) - What Is This Place? Scene (2/10) | Movieclip

Yes I borrowed this phrase from an old TV show that was a spin off of Jurassic Park, remember? So now if you are banished to the "Land that time forgot, Ignore" you may run into Trex......

 

[TruthTalk]

How can you love Jesus if you don’t love His Word? And how can you love the word unless you obey it?

That is exactly why we love Jesus and, "Trust and Obey", because He first loved us, because He lives we can live also.

 

[TruthTalk]

Yes I borrowed this phrase from an old TV show that was a spin off of Jurassic Park, remember? So now if you are banished to the "Land that time forgot, Ignore" you may run into Trex......

Just for the record; using a phrase or a title from a book or movie as a form of communication, "Is fair use of copyright." It is not, "Plagiarism" nor is it, "Copyright Infringement." To spoof an old TV show in good humor is not breaking any, "copyright laws" If I were to make money from any of this, (which I do not), then Copyright laws would go into effect.

I have had the need to educate myself on copyright laws because I have used such things on my Christian blog. Many photos, lyrics, musical arrangements and literature become "Public Domain",
after a set period of time.

This is not directed at any one person, just for clarity of the law.

 

[TruthTalk]

Many do not have the elementary oracles down and thus need milk; Romans 10:4:

Just in general to me your post are to long, (some may disagree), however I still think you are trying to bring back "The Mosaic Law" as a legalistic way of life. Jesus raised the standard of OT Law and said He is the fulfillment of Gods Holy Law. We could not keep God's standard's in the day's of old; neither can we keep them now.

Jesus is Lord, He died for our sin's and now, He lives forever as our "High Priest," Not the Laws of Mose's again.

Peace to you.

 

[PHart]

You talk about old I’m 84

What will I be when I'm 84?

 

[Deacon_D]

Now, the gig question did you obey Acts 2:38?

 

[Hizikyah]

Just in general to me your post are to long, (some may disagree), however I still think you are trying to bring back "The Mosaic Law" as a legalistic way of life. Jesus raised the standard of OT Law and said He is the fulfillment of Gods Holy Law. We could not keep God's standard's in the day's of old; neither can we keep them now.

Jesus is Lord, He died for our sin's and now, He lives forever as our "High Priest," Not the Laws of Mose's again.

Peace to you.

may the peace of Yah be upon you!

I believe thats what I said

I call it the Instructions of YHWH mediated by Yahshua Messiah High Priest and King Eternal

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."



“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete


Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) all, whole, completely


Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and (#G2087 ) any othercommandments aresummed up ( #G346 ) in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."


“any”is word #G2087 - heteros
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the other, another, other, 1 to number,1a1) to number as opposed to some former person or thing,1a2) the other of two,1b) to quality,1b1) another: i.e. one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different


“summed up” is word #G346 – anakephalaioó: to sum up, gather up, Original Word: ἀνακεφαλαιόω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: anakephalaioó, Phonetic Spelling: (an-ak-ef-al-ah'-ee-om-ahee), Short Definition: I sum up, summarize, recapitulate, gather up in one, Definition: I sum up, summarize, recapitulate, gather up in one

 

[Deacon_D]

Since no one answered my question on the two witnesses the answer is plain as the nose on my face and that’s plenty big. It’s Moses and Peter

 

[TruthTalk]

I never said works can save ou superimposed that unsolicited.

Faith and works is what I have said. Here lets see what the King says:

Okay then please let me restate what I said; Faith plus works = false gospel. I'm sure you have read the Apostle Paul's doctrines on how a person is saved, he has much much better credentials than I do to explain.

God bless

 

[Hizikyah]

Okay then please let me restate what I said; Faith plus works = false gospel. I'm sure you have read the Apostle Paul's doctrines on how a person is saved, he has much much better credentials than I do to explain.

God bless

No this Scripture disproves what you say;

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"


James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."



Faith + Works



Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."


Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.”

 

[Hizikyah]

Yahshua/Jesus says obedience is key here:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

I trust Him.
[/FONT]

 

[PeterJens]

Imagine this guys.

A whole huddle of people here want me to trust Christ like them and stop doing stuff.
Now think about this. Is there too much good works going on in the world, too much
love and support, too much overcoming sin and walking in righteousness?

No. Then how come people who claim to follow Jesus want me to stop listening to
Him and following His calling. And my friends our commander, our Lord did not say
if you want to love the world, meet it needs, when and where you feel like it, Nope,
He said I command you.

So a bunch of insubordinate, rebellious, dirt bags who cannot clean up their act and
admit the King has come to earth and reigns on high to bring us victory in this
mortal dying world, I say eat dirt.

Let them die in their defeat and betrayal, it is their loss, literally.
Jesus died to set us free, to tell us, God loves us, there is nothing that can defeat us,
they can take our lives but we live on into eternity, our love that He has planted there
shines forever. Amen

In 30 years we will probably all be dead, except the younger ones, so it is not a idle
thought. I would much rather burn for my King than slowly fade away in selfishness
and self indulgence.

 

[TruthTalk]

No this Scripture disproves what you say;

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Faith + Works

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.”

Okay have it your way, however you leave out 99 percent of the Bible. As a side note; sometimes you use the OLD to prove the New. The OLD should always be interpreted in light of the New because of God's Revelation.

I appreciate your conversation on this subject and you are a kind and respectful person but we will just have to agree to disagree on how a man is justified before a Holy God.

Peace and God bless.

 

[PHart]

It doesn't say "in order for his spirit to be saved". You
added that.
​

5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB)

Click this link:https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/5/1/t_conc_1067005
Note Strong's word #2443 in the passage.

Paul is clearly saying he has decided to deliver this sinner in the Corinthian church over to satan for the destruction of his flesh SO THAT/ IN ORDER THAT (see link above) his spirit can be/will be/may be (take your pick) saved in the Day of Christ's second appearing, IWO, saved at the Judgement, not condemned with the lost. But OSAS says that would not be necessary for Paul to do because he is already irretrievably and irreversibly saved no matter what he does, or says, or thinks.

And we know this is a 'believer' that is being judged because of the simple fact that Paul has turned him over for judgment. He points out that it is only those in the church, not those outside of the church, that are to be judged this way:


3For I...have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present.
12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13But those who are outside, God judges.

And if you're still thinking this sinning fellow at Corinth is not a brother, but rather an unbeliever, consider this scripture concerning how to handle the misbehavior of anyone in the church at Thessalonica:

"14If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. 15Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother." (2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 NASB)

 

[Hizikyah]

Okay have it your way, however you leave out 99 percent of the Bible. As a side note; sometime you use the OLD to prove the New. The OLD should always be interpreted in light of the New because of God's Revelation.

I appreciate your conversation on this subject and you are a kind and respectful person but we will just have to agree to disagree on how is a man justified before a Holy God.

Peace and God bless.

Be well! halleluYah!

John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."


Revelation 5:12, "Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing."

 

[garee]

No this Scripture disproves what you say;

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"


James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."



Faith + Works



Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."


Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.”

Faith + Works

There is no separation between the faith as to the plan of Christ and the work executing it, of Christ. Its all one work of the one faith, of the one Spirit of God.

That is a description of the faith of Christ, the faith of God working in Abraham as it does in all believers to both will and do the good pleasure of God . His works of faith are perfect/complete .

If we would have that faith in respect to Abraham or Rehab the two examples then they would be blaspheming the Holy name by which we are called heavenward.

If God is no respecter of persons then neither should we be..


James 2World English Bible (WEB)
2 My brothers, don’t hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ of glory with partiality. 2 For if a man with a gold ring, in fine clothing, comes into your synagogue,[a] and a poor man in filthy clothing also comes in;3 and you pay special attention to him who wears the fine clothing, and say, “Sit here in a good place”; and you tell the poor man, “Stand there,” or “Sit by my footstool”; 4 haven’t you shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts? 5 Listen, my beloved brothers. Didn’t God choose those who are poor in this world to be rich in faith, and heirs of the Kingdom which he promised to those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Don’t the rich oppress you, and personally drag you before the courts? 7 Don’t they blaspheme the honorable name by which you are called?,


Will you obey the commandment in verse one not to have the faith that comes from hearing Christ in respect to humans. His love that works in us is patient, showing us he is kind and tenderhearted towards those who do not deserve it..His love that works in us doesn’t brag, is not proud,. His perfect love doesn’t behave itself inappropriately, doesn’t seek its own way, is not provoked, takes no account of evil; doesn’t rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with His truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. The love of God never fails.

12 Here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”rev 14:12