Not By Works
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This topic has come up before, and I commented on how some of the big churches openly admit to not being for Christians who are already saved, but for people who are seeking. Again as you say, NOT all large churches, but definitely some. And then there are those that waffle on key points of Scripture, such as who is saved and who is not saved, and what is required. But then again, that is what this lovely thread you created is all about 
Thank you for your thoughtful reply,
My point is that they thought they were saved. They were convinced they were saved, but because they rejected God's Commandments, their worship was in vain. It is a warning from Jesus, I'm not ashamed to share His warnings with folks. But if His warnings upset you, I will share with someone else.
Good thread, great topic
My point is that they thought they were saved. They were convinced they were saved, but because they rejected God's Commandments, their worship was in vain. It is a warning from Jesus, I'm not ashamed to share His warnings with folks. But if His warnings upset you, I will share with someone else.
Good thread, great topic
Thank you for your thoughtful reply,
My point is that they thought they were saved. They were convinced they were saved, but because they rejected God's Commandments, their worship was in vain. It is a warning from Jesus, I'm not ashamed to share His warnings with folks. But if His warnings upset you, I will share with someone else.
Good thread, great topic
My point is that they thought they were saved. They were convinced they were saved, but because they rejected God's Commandments, their worship was in vain. It is a warning from Jesus, I'm not ashamed to share His warnings with folks. But if His warnings upset you, I will share with someone else.
Good thread, great topic
Galatians is clear...faith plus works = gospel of a different kind with no power to save....
Any gospel embellished with works to gain, keep or facillitate salvation has no power to save.
And law was designed to prove men's guilt before God and will never save or keep saved Romans 3.....it points to the cure....faith into the work of Christ......
and post away migo...if I agree I will like...if I disagree I will fire on it bro.
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast."(Ephesians 2:8-9) Good works are the natural outcome of following salvation through Christ.
Neither is salvation universal, meaning that not everyone will be saved. This does not mean that God does not love everyone. Indeed, He "wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4) But only Christ is "the way and the truth and the life." (John 14:6)
Salvation is not found in legalism, either. Strict adherence to a list of do's and don'ts is not what Christian salvation is about. Romans 3:20 reads, "no one will be declared righteous in his [God's] sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." We all "fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) http://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/the-study-of-god/why-study-god/what-must-i-do-to-be-saved
Neither is salvation universal, meaning that not everyone will be saved. This does not mean that God does not love everyone. Indeed, He "wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4) But only Christ is "the way and the truth and the life." (John 14:6)
Salvation is not found in legalism, either. Strict adherence to a list of do's and don'ts is not what Christian salvation is about. Romans 3:20 reads, "no one will be declared righteous in his [God's] sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." We all "fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) http://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/the-study-of-god/why-study-god/what-must-i-do-to-be-saved
J
what use is a petty fixation?
The commandment is "remember the sabbath day to keep it holy" not well this day must always be the sabbath,correct me if I'm wrong but didn't God make the sabbath the "seventh" day that it would be a day of rest from works,as in if one worked for 6 days then they would rest on the seventh day from their works just as God did,now you may choose the sabbath day according to what was "tradition" but you seem to misunderstand how that as I said before"the sabbath is made for man not man for the sabbath" so it stands to reason that according to when one works a person can have a different sabbath day to keep holy as best can be done and rest,I am aware that Saturday is known to many as the "proper sabbath day" according to the bible possibly,but a better question is which day can one keep holy and rest from one's labours?
take my job for instance it requires me to work every Saturday during the day and night even going into sunday around 3 am,now how can I make Saturday holy if it is mandatory for me to work on Saturday during the night but Sunday is open entirely,I cannot do so especially since it is my busiest day,where as Sunday is open to where I can rest(especially since I am tired totally after my double shift),also I decided to keep Sunday as my sabbath day because here in America nearly everyone I know goes to Church on either Wednesday or Sunday but more churches are open on Sunday typically than any other day,so I choose to have Sunday as my sabbath to keep holy for God as best I can,and rest,now if I had a different job or schedule that collided with that day,I would seek a new day,unless only a temporary circumstance,because I find value in doing so,tributing a day to God through praise,learning,and rest(which are not work to me because they heal me and uplift me),I don't see why "the day" of sabbath is so important to keep over"a day of sabbath" that we choose in honor of God to try to keep holy and rest from labours.
The commandment is "remember the sabbath day to keep it holy" not well this day must always be the sabbath,correct me if I'm wrong but didn't God make the sabbath the "seventh" day that it would be a day of rest from works,as in if one worked for 6 days then they would rest on the seventh day from their works just as God did,now you may choose the sabbath day according to what was "tradition" but you seem to misunderstand how that as I said before"the sabbath is made for man not man for the sabbath" so it stands to reason that according to when one works a person can have a different sabbath day to keep holy as best can be done and rest,I am aware that Saturday is known to many as the "proper sabbath day" according to the bible possibly,but a better question is which day can one keep holy and rest from one's labours?
take my job for instance it requires me to work every Saturday during the day and night even going into sunday around 3 am,now how can I make Saturday holy if it is mandatory for me to work on Saturday during the night but Sunday is open entirely,I cannot do so especially since it is my busiest day,where as Sunday is open to where I can rest(especially since I am tired totally after my double shift),also I decided to keep Sunday as my sabbath day because here in America nearly everyone I know goes to Church on either Wednesday or Sunday but more churches are open on Sunday typically than any other day,so I choose to have Sunday as my sabbath to keep holy for God as best I can,and rest,now if I had a different job or schedule that collided with that day,I would seek a new day,unless only a temporary circumstance,because I find value in doing so,tributing a day to God through praise,learning,and rest(which are not work to me because they heal me and uplift me),I don't see why "the day" of sabbath is so important to keep over"a day of sabbath" that we choose in honor of God to try to keep holy and rest from labours.
H
No recurring meetings are noted in either of these scriptures. Breaking bread does not automatically mean communion, but could also mean a fellowship meal.
Nowhere in the Bible does it tell us in black and white or red and specifically that the day of worship or gathering for Church was changed from Saturday to Sunday. Yet History proves that Constantine and later the RCC changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.
Nowhere in the Bible does it tell us in black and white or red and specifically that the day of worship or gathering for Church was changed from Saturday to Sunday. Yet History proves that Constantine and later the RCC changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.
The churches met daily in Acts and I could care less what that idiot did or did not do.....and it does not make a church wrong just because it meets on Sunday, Monday, Wednesday or any other day of the week.....contrary to your view...The Catholics do not set the standard for biblical Christianity and or is Christianity judged rightly based upon what they do or do not do......wake up!
Hi He_reigns.
I suppose I would answer your question with “Does it really matter?
Is there any mention of sabbath keeping before the law of Moses?
Yes God rested, but my understanding is that the Hebrew word for rest is “Shabbat” which means to cease or stop.
Therfore God ceased creating on the seventh day. Everything he had created was good and his work was finished.
He didn’t rest but merely stopped creating.
We know that Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath.
What did he do to break the sabbath (bearing in mind that if he truly did the he is a sinner)
He healed, and walked with people.
I can’t recall Jesus commanding people to keep the sabbath or praising people for doing so.
His beef was the rules that the Pharisees had set in place and to don’t do this and don’t do that.
Jesus said that stuff could be done on the sabbath
Luke 14:5-6
5 Then He answered them, saying, “Which of you, having a donkey or an ox that has fallen into a pit, will not immediately pull him out on the Sabbath day?” 6 And they could not answer Him regarding these things.
John 5:8-10
8 Jesus said to him, “Rise, take up your bed and walk.” 9 And immediately the man was made well, took up his bed, and walked.
And that day was the Sabbath. 10 The Jews therefore said to him who was cured, “It is the Sabbath; it is not lawful for you to carry your bed.”
It seems to me that Jesus is saying “You tie up people with all the laws and rules, don’t do this and don’t do that”
Yes Jesus would have kept all the Jewish laws because he was born under the law.
Galatians 4:4-5
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Jesus did not rest on the sabbath day but he went about the business of the Father.
The ritual Law was to superseded by the moral law.
So to observe is not restricted to Dont do and make sure you do is replaced with Do things that are in line with the moral law.
So I think the question I would ask is “In the NT and the new covenant where is it commanded that we have to keep the sabbath as it prescribed by the Jesus and those under the New Covenant?
Hebrews 4:9-10
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
Just my simple thoughts
I suppose I would answer your question with “Does it really matter?
Is there any mention of sabbath keeping before the law of Moses?
Yes God rested, but my understanding is that the Hebrew word for rest is “Shabbat” which means to cease or stop.
Therfore God ceased creating on the seventh day. Everything he had created was good and his work was finished.
He didn’t rest but merely stopped creating.
We know that Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath.
What did he do to break the sabbath (bearing in mind that if he truly did the he is a sinner)
He healed, and walked with people.
I can’t recall Jesus commanding people to keep the sabbath or praising people for doing so.
His beef was the rules that the Pharisees had set in place and to don’t do this and don’t do that.
Jesus said that stuff could be done on the sabbath
Luke 14:5-6
5 Then He answered them, saying, “Which of you, having a donkey or an ox that has fallen into a pit, will not immediately pull him out on the Sabbath day?” 6 And they could not answer Him regarding these things.
John 5:8-10
8 Jesus said to him, “Rise, take up your bed and walk.” 9 And immediately the man was made well, took up his bed, and walked.
And that day was the Sabbath. 10 The Jews therefore said to him who was cured, “It is the Sabbath; it is not lawful for you to carry your bed.”
It seems to me that Jesus is saying “You tie up people with all the laws and rules, don’t do this and don’t do that”
Yes Jesus would have kept all the Jewish laws because he was born under the law.
Galatians 4:4-5
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Jesus did not rest on the sabbath day but he went about the business of the Father.
The ritual Law was to superseded by the moral law.
So to observe is not restricted to Dont do and make sure you do is replaced with Do things that are in line with the moral law.
So I think the question I would ask is “In the NT and the new covenant where is it commanded that we have to keep the sabbath as it prescribed by the Jesus and those under the New Covenant?
Hebrews 4:9-10
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
Just my simple thoughts
In agreement about what? That the pharisees sought to kill Jesus because in their view He broke the Sabbath? Obviously Jesus dd not break any law In agreement that Sunday is identified as the first day of the week? That the first day of the week was Pentecost, the birthing of the new Church in Christ's Holy name? That Sunday was the day the Lord was discovered arisen from the grave? The day He went to the Father as an offering of First Fruits? A day the apostles met for fellowship? That the keeping of the Sabbath law was not seen as necessary in the new Church? Please clarify.
In agreement that Sunday is identified as the first day of the week? That the first day of the week was Pentecost, the birthing of the new Church in Christ's Holy name? That Sunday was the day the Lord was discovered arisen from the grave? The day He went to the Father as an offering of First Fruits? A day the apostles met for fellowship? That the keeping of the Sabbath law was not seen as necessary in the new Church? Please clarify.