Not By Works

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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No where in the Bible does it say they met on Sunday and only on Sunday. That is my only point.
Your only point? Really? Then why all the talk about Constantine and heads exploding?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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No recurring meetings are noted in either of these scriptures.
Since they met every day, it would definitely be recurring.

Sometimes you need to put a wee bit of thought into what you are reading. You know, the line by line and precept upon precept idea. Are you familiar with it?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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In agreement about what? That the pharisees sought to kill Jesus because in their view He broke the Sabbath? Obviously Jesus dd not break any law :) In agreement that Sunday is identified as the first day of the week? That the first day of the week was Pentecost, the birthing of the new Church in Christ's Holy name? That Sunday was the day the Lord was discovered arisen from the grave? The day He went to the Father as an offering of First Fruits? A day the apostles met for fellowship? That the keeping of the Sabbath law was not seen as necessary in the new Church? Please clarify.
We can add to this list the fact that Jesus is our Sabbath rest :)

Would He_reigns agree or disagree? I wonder.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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Answer to your first question is NO.


Which Church changed the day and why do you and others profess it came out of the Bible, when it no such thing happened?
I dont know what you mean by 'what church', there is really only one true ecclesia. Christians made a practice of meeting regularly and the breaking of bread in community on the Lords day is clearly seen in scripture (called here the first day of the week, which was most definitely a Sunday then).

Acts 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
You didnt answer the second question?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Where does it say they rejected his commandments...it states clearly that he never knew them....which goes to the root of salvation...they trusted WORKS in his name as their ticket..and the bible is clear...works do not save, keep saved or facillitate salvation, but rather are the direct result of the salvation and faith one already possesses in Christ....

Galatians is clear...faith plus works = gospel of a different kind with no power to save....

Any gospel embellished with works to gain, keep or facillitate salvation has no power to save.

And law was designed to prove men's guilt before God and will never save or keep saved Romans 3.....it points to the cure....faith into the work of Christ......

and post away migo...if I agree I will like...if I disagree I will fire on it bro.
15 What then? shall we sin,(transgress God's Laws) because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

"depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

So you asked where it says they rejected His Commandments. Iniquity is sin. Sin is transgression of God's Laws. These are not my words, but the words of the Bible. So I have shown you in God's Word the answer to your question. Both their works, and the result of their works.

My post isn't against the teaching of the Bible, it may be against Mainstream Christian preaching, but it isn't against the Bible.

The Bible also teaches that "Faith without works is dead". But you preach that faith with works is without power. ( I assume that could mean "faith with works is dead").


I say these things not to offend, but in brotherly love. Jesus said to "Take heed" that the "many" who come in His name doesn't deceive me. But if you can't even see the point of my post, there is no more need continue.

Thanks you for your reply and question :)
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast."(Ephesians 2:8-9) Good works are the natural outcome of following salvation through Christ.

Neither is salvation universal, meaning that not everyone will be saved. This does not mean that God does not love everyone. Indeed, He "wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4) But only Christ is "the way and the truth and the life." (John 14:6)

Salvation is not found in legalism, either. Strict adherence to a list of do's and don'ts is not what Christian salvation is about. Romans 3:20 reads, "no one will be declared righteous in his [God's] sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." We all "fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) http://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/the-study-of-god/why-study-god/what-must-i-do-to-be-saved
Hi Magenta, I agree with all of your post. Can you also agree that there is only "half a gospel" being taught if you do not include the sanctification of the believer, and only push a "keep believing" or "keep working" to be saved gospel. As one other poster said here, the people who push their works salvation no longer need Jesus because their works will keep them saved, (until they don't), and then you will lose your eternal salvation; which is a complete lie.

Justification is our "position" in Christ -- Sanctification is our "practice" in Christ. These are basic truths that are taught from the scriptures.

Philippians2:12,13
continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 'For it is God who works in you,' to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

What is Sanctification
: It is our practice and being set apart for the work of the ministry and worship, a life long pursuit. It is a fact that the believers Sanctification is never brought to the discussion on this thread by the people who claim that you need to, "keep working" or "keep believing", to be saved.

Quote: CARM.org
"Sanctification is the process of being set apart for God's work and being conformed to the image of
Christ. This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it is still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified (Phil. 2:13).

Sanctification is not instantaneous because it is not the work of God alone. The justified person is actively involved in submitting to God's will, resisting sin, seeking holiness, and working to be more godly (
Gal. 5:22-23). Significantly, sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a perfect life, we are still justified.

Attribute:
https://carm.org/justification-and-sanctification

God bless
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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15 What then? shall we sin,(transgress God's Laws) because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

"depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

So you asked where it says they rejected His Commandments. Iniquity is sin. Sin is transgression of God's Laws. These are not my words, but the words of the Bible. So I have shown you in God's Word the answer to your question. Both their works, and the result of their works.

My post isn't against the teaching of the Bible, it may be against Mainstream Christian preaching, but it isn't against the Bible.

The Bible also teaches that "Faith without works is dead". But you preach that faith with works is without power. ( I assume that could mean "faith with works is dead").


I say these things not to offend, but in brotherly love. Jesus said to "Take heed" that the "many" who come in His name doesn't deceive me. But if you can't even see the point of my post, there is no more need continue.

Thanks you for your reply and question :)
Again your missing the mark...HE NEVER KNEW THEM....they were nevet saved and trusted into their works...that was the root of their problem....to not trust into Christ biblically is to be found in sin and iniquity....to trust biblically is to have the righteousness of Christ imputed to a man's account BY FAITH....WORKS DO NOT SAVE or keep saved...

We conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT WORKS.

The attempt to keep the law and works of God for is a lost cause....it proves guilt and does not justify any man before God......!

and to conflate your first two points speaks multitudes.....those under grace are not condemned with the list referenced in your 2nd quote....

wow....context dude....!!
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Psalm 11:4, "יהוה is in His holy temple; יהוה throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men."



Hebrews 4:13, “And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all are naked and laid bare before the eyes of Him with whom is our account.”


Luke 8:17, “For whatever is hidden shall be revealed, and whatever is secret shall be known and come to light.”
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Sabbath (rest ) is not a time sensitive word.

Today as long as it is if we hear His voice and harden not our hearts we have entered that rest. Christ changed the Sabbath in mind from the last to day to the first. .the new era of Sabbaths .

The work week is a time sensitive word it never means rest.

Matthew 28Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
28 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,[/h]
Now that is PURE FALSE TEACHING FROM A GUARANTEED FALSE PROPHET.

When we worship on SUNDAY, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with SABBATH, which is always on Saturday - sundown Friday thru sundown Saturday. AND IT IS ALWAYS A SIGN OF THE COVENANT BETWEEN GOD AND ISRAEL. We Worship on Sunday because it is Day HE rose from the Grave, and we Worship a RISEN LORD.

NOW THAT IS VERSE 1, NOT VERSE 28. THE GREEK WORD "SABBATON" CARRIES A SECONDARY MEANING OF A DAY OF THE "WEEK", AND SINCE IT IS PRECEDED BY THE GREEK WORD FOR "THE FIRST", THAT MAKES THE CORRECT TRANSLATION, "THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK".

Greek NASB Number: 4521
Greek Word:σάββατον


Transliterated Word: sabbaton
Root: of Heb. or. [7676];

Definition: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week):--


List of English Words and Number of Times Used
Sabbath (58),
Sabbaths (1),
week (9).



New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

Greek Strong's Number: 4521
Greek Word: σάββατον
Transliteration: sabbaton
Phonetic Pronunciation:
sab'-bat-on

Root: of Hebrew origin <H7676>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 7:1,989
Part of Speech: n n
Vine's Words: Sabbath, Week



Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:

sabbath day 37
sabbath 22
week 9
[Total Count: 68]


of Hebrew origin [<H7676> (shabbath)]; the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications :- sabbath (day), week.



Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

Literally - THE FIRST OF THE INTERVAL BETWEEN TWO SABBATHS.
Or - THE FIRST OF THE WEEK.


Matthew 28:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (ASV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (CSBBible)
[SUP]1[/SUP] After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (NRSV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]After the sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (NCV)
[SUP]1[/SUP] The day after the Sabbath day was the first day of the week. . . .

Matthew 28:1 (AMP)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] NOW AFTER the Sabbath, near dawn of the first day of the week, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (NJB)
[SUP]1[/SUP] After the Sabbath, and towards dawn on the first day of the week, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (BBE)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now late on the Sabbath, when the dawn of the first day of the week was near, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (MontgomeryNT)
[SUP]1[/SUP] At the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (MaceNT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The sabbath being over, and the first day of the week beginning to dawn, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (NET)
[SUP]1[/SUP] Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (RSV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now after the sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (WesleyNT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now after the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, . . .

Matthew 28:1 (WEY)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] After the Sabbath, in the early dawn of the first day of the week, . . .


Literally - THE FIRST OF THE INTERVAL BETWEEN TWO SABBATHS.
Or - THE FIRST OF THE WEEK.
 
Z
If they were never saved how were they able to do anything in His name? You must have the Holy Spirit in order for Him to manifest His power
Jesus said these signs will follow them that believe. Him knowing in this case is relationship, He knows everyone. He didn't just never know them. It's obviously deeper

They were confused because they took the power as a sign or confirmation of their salvation. Living in unrepentant sin, disqualified them.

I know many will disagree
Again your missing the mark...HE NEVER KNEW THEM....they were nevet saved and trusted into their works...that was the root of their problem....to not trust into Christ biblically is to be found in sin and iniquity....to trust biblically is to have the righteousness of Christ imputed to a man's account BY FAITH....WORKS DO NOT SAVE or keep saved...

We conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT WORKS.

The attempt to keep the law and works of God for is a lost cause....it proves guilt and does not justify any man before God......!

and to conflate your first two points speaks multitudes.....those under grace are not condemned with the list referenced in your 2nd quote....

wow....context dude....!!
how? They believed in a Jesus, not The Jesus. Idols are easily formed. He's a king not just a brother
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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If they were never saved how were they able to do anything in His name? You must have the Holy Spirit in order for Him to manifest His power
Jesus said these signs will follow them that believe. Him knowing in this case is relationship, He knows everyone. He didn't just never know them. It's obviously deeper

They were confused because they took the power as a sign or confirmation of their salvation. Living in unrepentant sin, disqualified them.

I know many will disagree how? They believed in a Jesus, not The Jesus. Idols are easily formed. He's a king not just a brother
The reason as to why is given;

Get away from Me, you who practice _________.

Mat 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! Will enter into the Kingdom of YHWH, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."



iniquity” is word # G0458 - anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459, Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law, 1a) because ignorant of it, 1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness



Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."


Somehow I think people will disagree with me, but it is written.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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How about this one?

Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils
Well that scripture certainly does not say that God now commands all people now to abolish the 4th commandment and now keep Sunday as a Holy day now does it?
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Sabbath (rest ) is not a time sensitive word.

Today as long as it is if we hear His voice and harden not our hearts we have entered that rest. Christ changed the Sabbath in mind from the last to day to the first. .the new era of Sabbaths . The work week is a time sensitive word it never means rest. Matthew 28Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 28 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,[/h]
Hi garee,

I write this as a help and no disrespect.

Matthew 28:1

And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the first day of the week (sabbaths), came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre

This is a correct use of the Greek word sabbatōn; σαββάτων which is used twice in this verse and translates as "Sabbath(s)" meaning is plural more than one. This scripture above is written this way for a number of reasons. Firstly the word sabbatōn; σαββάτων can have two meanings in the Greek depending on the context being use. That is it can represent the day or the intervals from one sabbath to another representing a week.

Strong's Concordance

4521. sabbaton
sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)
Original Word: σάββατον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sabbaton
Phonetic Spelling: (sab'-bat-on)
Short Definition: the Sabbath, a week
Definition: the Sabbath, or a week.

Of Hebrew origin (shabbath); the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. The interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications -- sabbath (day), week.

see HEBREW shabbath


This is the reason why all bible translations make the scripture read........

Matthew 28:1
In the end of the sabbath(s), as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week (4521: sabbaton), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Just a point of interest we could leave it there and it all makes sense but just an interesting side note. In this particular week that Jesus died, coincided with the annual Jewish festivals of the Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Feast of Weeks which had their fulfillment in Jesus death and resurrection.

These annual festivals included Holy convocations (sabbaton) where no no ordinary work (H4399; מְלָאכָה mᵉlāʾḵâ; employment or business for income) was allowed. In the Greek these Holy convocations also translate as sabbatōn; σαββάτων..............

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

G4521. sabbaton
Sabbath day Of Hebrew origin (shabbath); the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly rest from secular avocations (occupation, employment business) also the observance or institution itself; by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. The interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications -- sabbath (day), week.


The Feast of Unleavened Bread was one of these festival sabbaths (G4521. sabbaton) that could fall on any day of the week. During the time of the death of Jesus was also the time of some of the annual Jewish festivals (Passover, Feast of Unleavened bread, Feast of First fruits (resurrection). When Jesus died and rested according to the commandment it was called a "High Sabbath Day". The Jews called a Sabbath a "High Day" when one of the annual festival sabbaths (holy convocations) which could normally fall on any day of the week would fall on the 7th Day weekly Sabbath of God's commandment (John 19:31) See also Wiki High Sabbaths

In this case the Feast of Unleavened Bread fell on the Passover and weekly Sabbath making two Sabbath(s) in one (plural), meaning God's weekly 7th Day Sabbath (sabbaton) and the annual festival sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened bread which was a Holy convocation meaning rest and no secular work was allowed (sabbaton). Hence the first part of Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath(s).....

So also your quote above does not tell us that God's 7th Day Sabbath is not abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of Man breaking the commandment of God and if we break the commandments of God to follow the teachings of man we are not following God because it is written......

Matthew 15:3-9
3, But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4, For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. 5, But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou might be profited by me; 6, And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7, Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8, This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9, But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Hope this is helpful and of interest.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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For those interested this is the reason you keep Sunday as a day of worship. Sunday worship is following the teachings and traditions of the RCC over the Word of God.............

[video=youtube;CrB21mc2fmI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrB21mc2fmI[/video]

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrB21mc2fmI

May God bless you all as you seek Him through His Word...
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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Mattithyah 24:20, "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.”

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Council of Laodicea (4th Century) Canon 29
Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

Definition - “anathema” - noun, plural a·nath·e·mas.
1.a person or thing detested or loathed: That subject is anathema to him.
2.a person or thing accursed or consigned to damnation or destruction.
3.a formal ecclesiastical curse involving excommunication.
4.any imprecation of divine punishment.
5.a curse; execration.

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Magazine, USA (1975), Chicago, Illinois, “Under the blessing of the Pope Pius XI” - “It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible.”
 
P

PHart

Guest
The Catholics do not set the standard for biblical Christianity and or is Christianity judged rightly based upon what they do or do not do....
That's the point, lol. Protestants think the way things are now is because God made them that way. We think the official day of worship/rest was changed by God because the law was 'done away with'. Nope. Not true.

The Catholics in their supposed greater authority than Christ are the one's who decreed that the new Sabbath day would be Sunday. And we Protestants don't know that. We just think God did away with the law and replaced it with a new law where we meet on Sunday's. Not even remotely true.

So we can't attack Messianic believers for wanting to meet and worship and rest on the 7th day because God did not decree that the church would no longer meet and worship and rest on that day. MAN decreed that.