Not By Works

TruthTalk · Oct 13, 2017

Repost: Spelling

Our Justification: the imputed righteous of Jesus Christ. Your good works cannot keep you saved but God can

"For in it the righteousness of God is revealed "from faith to faith;" as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Quote: Monergism.com
Paul is making the point that if Adam's disobedience to the law of God was the reason for death, then Jesus full obedience to all the prescriptions of the divine law unto death is what brings us righteousness.

"For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous." Rom5:19

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." 2Cor5:21

"But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption."1Cor1:30

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."2Cor5:2

Your works will not merit you eternal life but Jesus Christ perfect obedience will.

Attribute: https://www.monergism.com/topics/justification/imputation/righteousness

dcontroversal · Oct 13, 2017

mcubed said:

Am I saved? I was saved when I was 18 years old!!!!So many people seem to know about works vs. faith…. I’ll let you decide my fate instead of G-d…

At 18 my first husband was murdered I got saved still did a lot of opiates, but at 21 I went to Bible College to know what Christians knew about Y-shua. Got clean never looked back. At 21 I was pregnant knocked up in Bible College. Got married again, got divorced, he beat me and cheated, and got some stupid woman named Summer pregnant. Was a piece of crap, had sex with any old thing for many years, then did not have sex for over seven years because it was a sin, was not married. Stopped premarital sex for 6 years. Yes, that is right gave up sex (all of it even masturbation for those who do not want to call it sex especially you porn people; you lyres are I do not know who you think you are kidding!?!) Was I ever not saved since I got saved at 18?

I know my fate before any point of my life before G-d but I would love to hear a human judge on it!?!?

For many years now no, overt sin! That I can think of, sure there is, but let's say there is not for good measure... But I still sin of the heart. I do not break any of the “commandments” but yet Samuel said I will not sin against G-d and not pray for you. To my shame there are some I do not even think to pray for.

So tell me… at what point would I have gone to hell for once I was saved and will I go to hell now since I smart mouthed my 80 year old father, like I just did during this post, I did not honor him…. Or do you people that claim we get to heaven by works get to claim which works gets us to heaven? Was it my works of my left hand that did not let my right hand know what it was doing... there are many... Can you JUDGE ME?

The prodigal was a son through the whole process even though perceived as dead.....he was received and given a robe and a ring...he never lost being a son by birth regardless of ALL who say it can be lost........

Hizikyah · Oct 13, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Either way;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."[/FONT]

Also its in your own post ill highlight in red:

dcontroversal said:

We cant claim Yah and walk contrary, this does not mean we are going to be or have to be perfect, no matter what we should love doing His will, but its in your post I have no need to persuade, it is written.

Hizikyah · Oct 13, 2017

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it his not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."

I want to point out that the words that are in italics* are ADDED, thus changing the meaning of the passage:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity,*that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only does the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to YHWH through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

Strong's Concordance, “enmity” is word #G2189 echthra: enmity, hostility, Original Word: ἔχθρα, ας, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: echthra, Phonetic Spelling: (ekh'-thrah), Short Definition: enmity, hostility, Definition: enmity, hostility, alienation.

Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon) Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.

The opposition to YHWH's Law abolished, not the Law it's self.

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

joefizz · Oct 13, 2017

joefizz said:

Just in case some didn't see that"Salvation and how to know when you receive it" the thread is back for a day and if noone really posts then I'll leave it be for good though if it helps relieve stress or leads to more answers instead of arguments then I'm glad!

dcontroversal · Oct 13, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Does not matter....it is faith that saves and justifies....a man cannot obey unless saved already....and JESUS was clear..the work of the FATHER is to believe....that is what this thread is about....NOT LAW KEEPING or Sabbaths or any other such topic....You guys come in here and push this law abiding, vanilla twist works based false gospel and then expect us to fawn all over it.....and his name is JESUS....you have a problem with calling him JESUS or do you feel more holy by sayin YAH.......

VCO · Oct 13, 2017

Hizikyah said:

No where in the New Testament is the SABBATH COMMANDMENT REITERATED, while ALL of the other NINE are Reiterated.

WHY? Because Exodus 31:12-17 makes is VERY PLAIN that the Sabbath Commandment was a SIGN OF THE COVENANT BETWEEN GOD AND ISRAEL.

Did HE give us any Worship Commands in the New Testament Covenant?
HE SURE DID:

John 4:23-24 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But an hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. Yes, the Father wants such people to worship Him.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Hebrews 10:23-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Let us hold on to the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And let us be concerned about one another in order to promote love and good works,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] not staying away from our ⌊worship⌋ meetings, as some habitually do, but encouraging each other, and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

I have no problem with you thinking you have to keep the Sabbath.

I have a serious problem with you preaching that we are sinning, because we do not believe the Sabbath Commandment applies to NEW COVENANT BELIEVERS. We Celebrate a Risen LORD every Sunday, the First Fruits (Which always was celebrated on a Sunday.) of many Resurrections to come.

If you want to Celebrate the Sabbath instead, that is your problem, not ours.

NO I DO NOT WANT TO DEBATE IT.

Hizikyah · Oct 13, 2017

VCO said:

No where in the New Testament is the SABBATH COMMANDMENT REITERATED, while ALL of the other NINE are Reiterated.

WHY? Because Exodus 31:12-17 makes is VERY PLAIN that the Sabbath Commandment was a SIGN OF THE COVENANT BETWEEN GOD AND ISRAEL.

Did HE give us any Worship Commands in the New Testament Covenant?
HE SURE DID:

John 4:23-24 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But an hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. Yes, the Father wants such people to worship Him.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Hebrews 10:23-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Let us hold on to the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And let us be concerned about one another in order to promote love and good works,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] not staying away from our ⌊worship⌋ meetings, as some habitually do, but encouraging each other, and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

I have no problem with you thinking you have to keep the Sabbath.

I have a serious problem with you preaching that we are sinning, because we do not believe the Sabbath Commandment applies to NEW COVENANT BELIEVERS. We Celebrate a Risen LORD every Sunday, the First Fruits (Which always was celebrated on a Sunday.) of many Resurrections.
If you want to Celebrate the Sabbath instead, that is your problem, not ours.

Did I even mention the Sabbath a single time in that post?

mcubed · Oct 13, 2017

dcontroversal said:

AMEN!!! I HAVE NOT SINCE FEB. 1991 BEEN LOST!!!! NEEDED RESCUED FROM THE WOLF maybe BUT NOT LOST FROM MY SHEPHERD!!!!

Hizikyah · Oct 13, 2017

dcontroversal said:

What? Who said anything about calling Him JEsus or this or that about me calling Him Yah? What I see is you seem to have a problem with me.

dcontroversal said:

His name is Yahshua and His Fathers name is YHWH, Im accused as possibly being holier than thou because I use His real name?

G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous (yee-sous') n/p.
1. (meaning) He is Salvation, Yahweh saves (i.e. the Savior).
2. (person) Jesus (i.e. Yeshua, Yehoshua), the name of our Lord, also called the Last Adam.
3. (person) Joshua (i.e. Yehoshua) an Israelite, the servant and successor of Moses.
4. (person) Jeshua, also called Justus, an Israelite, a coworker with Paul.

LoveGodForever · Oct 14, 2017

VCO said:

Well that is just not true and is disregarding all the scripture about what Jesus and the Apostles taught about the Sabbath commandment not to mention Hebrew Chapter 4 you may have forgotten about. Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the Lord's name is vain is not re-iterated in the NT does that mean we can not use God's name in vain?

You provide no scripture that says the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is because Sunday Worship is a teaching and tradition of man breaking the commandments of God as it is written......

Matthew 15:3-9
3, But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4, For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. 5, But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou might be profited by me; 6, And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7, Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8, This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9, But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Sunday Worship is a teaching and tradition of Man that breaks the commandment of God and God's Word tells us that if we are following the traditions of man over the Word of God we are not following God....

Who should we obey God or man?

He that says I know him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him... God's Sheep hear His voice.

dcontroversal · Oct 14, 2017

mcubed said:

AMEN...and I agree totally!

dcontroversal · Oct 14, 2017

Hizikyah said:

I did not accuse...I asked....and the only problem I have is your incessant blend of law keeping and works with faith to seemingly push a café blend gospel that PAUL calls accursed, false, different, having no power and all who believe and espouse it are called foolish and bewitched.....so....what say you!

Hizikyah · Oct 14, 2017

dcontroversal said:

I say you misrepresent or misunderstand me and twist Paul's words;

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”

1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God?"

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."

Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."

dcontroversal · Oct 14, 2017

Hizikyah said:

I say you misrepresent or misunderstand me and twist Paul's words;

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”

1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God?"

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."

Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."

The righteousness without the law <--imputed by faith

Oh foolish Galatians....having begun in the spirit (faith) are you now made perfect by the flesh (works of the law)

NOPE..........

Hizikyah · Oct 14, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Putting words in my mouth or impyling them...

dcontroversal · Oct 14, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Galatians is clear.....the works of the law do not finish off that which is begun in the spirit by faith.....salvation is a one off with eternal consequence....based entirely upon faith....anything beyond that is the direct result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ!

Hizikyah · Oct 14, 2017

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

John 12:26, “26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Luke 11:28, But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”

Luke 8:21, “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”

John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mat 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh – the smallest of the letters – will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until Yahchanan(John), since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

dcontroversal · Oct 14, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

John 12:26, “26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Luke 11:28, But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”

Luke 8:21, “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”

John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mat 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh – the smallest of the letters – will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until Yahchanan(John), since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

A simple yes or no will suffice....

Do you believe that faith is not sufficient to save a man....?
Do you believe a man must adhere to the law to embellish salvation?
Do you believe faith MUST be embellished with law keeping to get saved or stay saved?

Hizikyah · Oct 14, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Yes true faith saves, psudo faith does not. True faith does the will of Yah, psudo faith does one's own will.

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"

dcontroversal said:

embellish
[em-bel-ish
verb (used with object)
1.to beautify by or as if by ornamentation; ornament; adorn.
2.to enhance (a statement or narrative) with fictitious additions.

I can't speak to embelish, but to obtain I can speak to;

Yes one has to do the will of Yah to enter His kingdom, for it is written;

1 John 2:17, "And the world passes away, and the lust of it, but the one doing the desire of Yah remains forever."

John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

Luke 8:21, “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”

dcontroversal said:

I believe Scripture; Yahshua's final Revelation to mankind:

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."

Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.”

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

and I also believe you twist Paul's words;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”

[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "The circumcision is naught, and the uncircumcision is naught, but the guarding of the commands of Yah does matter!”[/FONT]

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